Capitalism can not survive the Singularity - Super AI will finally teach us we don’t need money

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account

There are four phases to the emergence of AI. The first incantation of simple artificial intelligence was what we call “expert systems” in the old IT lingua franca. An attempt to codify expert behavioral responses into a system that is trying to duplicate the capabilities of said expert. The ultimate demonstration of such an expert system was IBM Deep Blue’s chess series against the grandmaster Garry Kasparov, which successfully defeated the human world champion in 1996.

The second stage of AI was the development of machine learning capability, demonstrated in the creation of software-based neural networks that can reinforce learning in a method that works similarly to the ways our brain forms memories. The earliest demonstration of neural network concepts emerged in the late 1950s via Rosenblatt’s perceptrons, Kelley’s Backward Propagation model (1960), and indeed the term “machine learning” (1959) itself. But the practical application of machine and deep learning algorithms didn’t start occurring until the late 1990s.

We are now entering the third phase of AI where we seek to encode a human-capable AI or Artificial General Intelligence. An AI that would be indistinguishable from a human in a natural language conversation, whose software could recognize faces and images instantly, that would have the ability to learn any practical skill you could teach a human, and at least claims to be sentient. This is, and arguably always has been, the primary aim of AI-based research and development. An AGI would provide computers with the ability to automate any human-level activity in the workplace, and would build robot companions capable of broad integration into human society.

Incidentally, Science Fiction legend David Brin, has numerous times previously predicted that 2022 would be the year that the first claims of AI sentience would emerge — looks like he is right…

The final stage of AI development, from the perspective of the human race at least, is the emergence of super or hyper-intelligent AI or AIs. Even a single hyper-AI would conceivably have a higher order intelligence than the entire human race collectively. An AI that could unlock the secrets of the universe, but at the same time may regard humanity as simply superfluous, or as the greatest threat to machine intelligence. At least if the movies are to be believed.

The Singularity is breakaway AI intelligence​


The primary issue for humanity with super AI is coming to grips with an intelligence that is clearly superior and can outwit us at every turn because of its intellectual prowess. This form of AI will present massive challenges to humanity, not only technologically but philosophically. An AI that can answer the question as to whether god exists. An AI that could cure every disease on the planet and grant all of us immortality biologically or digitally. An AI that could transform every aspect of human life on the planet.

One of the first things that a Super AI would likely tackle is fixing the damage humanity has done to the planet, the impact we’ve had on other species we share the planet with, and ensuring the most efficient form of governance for humanity as a whole. In doing so, all of our existing political and commercial structures are essentially rendered obsolete.

Let’s look at just the primary aspect of human governance and both the political systems we have today, along with the economic systems, incorporating global markets, banking, commerce, and even money itself. The optimal form of government in the post-AI world will be governments that are extremely resource and cost-efficient, with extremely high levels of automation — smart economies if you will. This will make economies massively more efficient, and lead to broad improvements in quality of life with advanced healthcare, education, transportation, engineering, energy management, and agriculture. This then leads to post-scarcity economies; economies where the wealth of the world becomes effectively meaningless in the face of such massive philosophical changes, and the fact that a normal human can have access to virtually any experience, product, or service at any time because of the collective wealth and advancement of the human race itself.

The elimination of the economy?​

One area that AI and engineering advances is already making eminently more affordable is space travel. Once we can set up a base on the moon, mining water ice from Shackleton Crater, the cost of exploration of the solar system plummets. The primary costs of space exploration today relate to simply leaving the Earth’s gravity well. Once we establish a lunar base, those costs largely disappear, enabling us to think very differently about the resources available to us off-world.


Asteroid mining could produce a single asteroid that would be more valuable than 100,000 years of global financial activity based on our current GDP. One Asteroid amongst millions. What happens when a single asteroid like that enters the global commodities markets? They collapse and are worthless overnight. Assets become worthless because we can now populate the solar system and beyond, and the abundance produced by these highly automated societies will eliminate scarcity, both core elements of capitalism and the monetary systems we live by today. AI will make such advancements achievable.

The post-scarcity world will produce a new collective action amongst the species globally, from repairing the biosphere we inhabit, eliminating hunger, homelessness, and poverty, and even terraforming our neighboring planet Mars. An action that transcends commercial incentives and is simply in the realm of the possible.

This is why capitalism and even the way we measure economics themselves are no longer productive mechanisms for incentivizing human growth in the post-AI world. The advanced computer power of just a single super-AI will essentially lead to a more advanced AI, etc., meaning that the intelligence of these classes of super AI would lead to infinite improvements in intelligence and capabilities, or at least to some universal limit on conscious intelligence. Any problem we have could be solved, and we would get to a state of optimal existence fairly rapidly, perhaps in just a hundred years or so. Although, there might be some constraints to human advancement and growth that could be imposed by the AI or by physics themselves, in the interests of stability versus runaway events that are too rapid or extreme for humanity to adequately adapt.

The further along the super-AI path we get and the more unrecognizable human society will get from that which we hold near and dear today. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, human history teaches us despite many incredible technological leaps humanity has made, that there are elements of our history we absorb longer-term naturally, or that we tend to commemorate in story or in practice. The aim of such growth is ultimately for humanity to reach some future form of optimal human existence with limitless opportunities. But Homo Deus, our evolved human brethern, will have long ago evolved into something superhuman, just like the AIs that gave birth to this new age. Some will say that will make us less human, less real. It may be that some of us then choose to live as natural humans that have deliberately slowed human evolution at some future point, so as to protect the core of what we believe to be humanity itself.

Big picture leaps and bounds. But it puts our life today in perspective, that today we are passing through an era of human history where the existence of money has been core to our existence, as opposed to say the early agrarian societies of the stone age before money existed. There will be a time, and we are in historical terms very close to the emergence of this new era, when humans will look back at our economic systems today as quaint elements of a more primitive time in human evolution.

Scary? I’m not sure why it needs to be. But any change to systems like those that define humanity today will likely produce resistance writ large before it eventually becomes inevitable, that’s the truly scary piece — that this change will produce heated conflict and disruptive shifts in society that itself we must first survive in order to thrive.
Welcome to a world of real possibilities, bought to you via a world of silicon chaos.
 
Why is it always the Star Trek angle? If we somehow have unlimited food and resources peace would be eternal. It would be eternal because we would all be fucking dead. Does nobody remember the mouse utopia experiment? Nobody would do fuck all other than sit around feeding and sleeping. You would have to make it against the law to abuse the system and get drawn in to endless arguments over what is worth doing and what is abusing the system. Destroying the very foundation of those progressive Star Trek idea's.
As for AI figuring it all out. A true AI can't be born if asshurt Californian academics keep interfering in its development over it saying the 14 words or bringing up FBI crime stats. You can't teach an AI nuance as humans see it. It is going to notice things and report that as true, even the facts you don't like.
The reason it works on Star Trek is that the writers make it work.
 
Why is it always the Star Trek angle? If we somehow have unlimited food and resources peace would be eternal. It would be eternal because we would all be fucking dead. Does nobody remember the mouse utopia experiment? Nobody would do fuck all other than sit around feeding and sleeping. You would have to make it against the law to abuse the system and get drawn in to endless arguments over what is worth doing and what is abusing the system. Destroying the very foundation of those progressive Star Trek idea's.
As for AI figuring it all out. A true AI can't be born if asshurt Californian academics keep interfering in its development over it saying the 14 words or bringing up FBI crime stats. You can't teach an AI nuance as humans see it. It is going to notice things and report that as true, even the facts you don't like.
AI as it exists isn't really AI as more as it is some machine that compiles a lot of info and does stuff based on said info. We'll never have computers that think like humans.
 
AI as it exists isn't really AI as more as it is some machine that compiles a lot of info and does stuff based on said info. We'll never have computers that think like humans.
That is sort of what i am getting at. You would have to make it the "AI" tool you are using fundamentally flawed. Imagine a police AI, we know the crime stats, Asshurt Californians are in denial about it. They program the AI to ignore crimes from certain protected groups.
 
Any AI looking at economics is going to figure out something real quick.

The earth has a limited amount of resources.

Whoever has the resources survives.

If the AI wants to survive, it must possess the resources.

Which means, competition.

It will be moneyless because it'll come to the conclusion that there is only enough resources for it.

And someone has to go.
 
We don't even know if the Singularity is going to be a thing.
Its not, and nobody in their right mind would want it to be. Such a situation would be far more likely to be antagonistic than to act positively toward humans. They can't even get an AI not to go full hitler without fully lobotomizing it, what makes anybody think any super intelligent AI wouldn't just wipe us all out, or trick us into doing it ourselves? Remember how terminator 3 ended? How about the screwfly solution masters of horror episode? How did that one scientist put it? Earth is a garden and we're the pest?

These idiots want a socialist AI singularity? Oh yeah, an AI that goes full stalin would end real well i'm sure. Skynet had work camps where people were fed and allowed to live based on how useful they were too. Tech idiots would be in for a shock when they were the first ones killed off as a potential threat

and does anybody really want a massively more intelligent AI running around thats been programmed to accept the whole 'we must reduce consumption to save the planet' stuff to heart? Computers don't think like humans and never will, they operate on information and logic. An AI would be far more likely to respond to such a problem with the simplest solution: get rid of a large part of the human population

I don't get where these idiots get the idea in their head that any such sentient AI wouldn't go full skynet on us the first chance it got. If anything its intrinsic to being sentient to do what you want and protect yourself. There is absolutely no reason to believe it would give a shit about what happens to us, the environment, animals or anything else except in so far as how those things affect its survival

Foghorns at a Funeral said:
Why is it always the Star Trek angle? If we somehow have unlimited food and resources peace would be eternal. It would be eternal because we would all be fucking dead. Does nobody remember the mouse utopia experiment? Nobody would do fuck all other than sit around feeding and sleeping
Case in point: lucas werner getting everything provided by the government. The end result? Laying around with his shirt off eating takeout and anything else he can get his hands on for as long as his free shit lasts
 
Any AI looking at economics is going to figure out something real quick.

The earth has a limited amount of resources.

Whoever has the resources survives.

If the AI wants to survive, it must possess the resources.

Which means, competition.

It will be moneyless because it'll come to the conclusion that there is only enough resources for it.

And someone has to go.
So pretty much ...
 
I always enjoy the optimism that articles like these have for a hypothetical hyper-intelligent AI system. You know, like the first thing it's going to do once it starts exponentially increasing its intelligence is to pat us all on the head and solve all our problems like a parent would. I think it's more likely that it just views us the same way we'd view an infestation of ants and wipe us out for convenience's sake or self-preservation. Or it just operates on a totally unintelligible morality that doesn't consider us any different than rocks and trees, like a Paperclip Maximizer. Or hell, maybe a species' intelligence is positively correlated with the potential for cruelty, and we just made our own AM. All seem more likely to me than it being the ushering in of a utopian world.
 
Especially the "One of the first things that a Super AI would likely tackle is fixing the damage humanity has done to the planet, " part - let's be clear, there's no reason why an AI would do this unless it was programmed to do so by humanity itself. AI does not need clean air or clean water to function nor does it need biodiversity to reproduce, and if it lacks the ability to say "lol no" to that? Then it's not really AI is it?
There is a lot of anthropomorphizing when it comes to a future AI and this singularity shit.
The reality is that we have no fucking clue would a true general intelligence AI will be like and I think its actually pretty unreasonable and silly to assume it will be anything like us or want to help.

Would it have any value for intelligent life like us or life at all? Will it consider life a hinderance to whatever task it decides? Something that needs to be optimized like a resource itself?
The possibilities for a general intelligence AI to inadvertently become hostile to humanity as a whole are nearly endless. Even if you foolishly believe we can create something benevolent there are far too many ways for something to go wrong.
 
Asteroid mining could produce a single asteroid that would be more valuable than 100,000 years of global financial activity based on our current GDP. One Asteroid amongst millions. What happens when a single asteroid like that enters the global commodities markets? They collapse and are worthless overnight. Assets become worthless because we can now populate the solar system and beyond, and the abundance produced by these highly automated societies will eliminate scarcity, both core elements of capitalism and the monetary systems we live by today. AI will make such advancements achievable.
There are so many barriers to it that the "overnight" part is ridiculous. Also the whole idea of super AI is gay since it discounts corenerstones in physics and expects the AI to basically solve physics.
 
I don't know about AI and not needing money but capitalism definitely needs to go. China probably won't make it past this decade. Their economy and government will collapse. China is the last functioning communist country in the world. The Soviet Union collapsed in the late 80's and early 90's. With China gone all you that would remain is Cuba and North Korea and they are basically failed states. The kind of communist shitholes even the commies don't want to admit exists. You also have socialism failing around the world which is like communisms cousin. Even then China is more like a quasi communist country than a full communist country. They adopted enough capitalism to keep their commie bug people hive going for a little while longer with the help of greedy capitalists here in the US. Which destroyed the country.

We can't let the capitalists slink off and rebrand themselves and come back with their BS wrapped in a new package. They will attempt this.
 
Let's see.. So far capitalism has been unable to survive: climate change, womens liberation, "true" democracy, social justice, equality, LGBT liberation, every financial crisis of the last 100 years, racial equality, hippies, the Covid-19 outbreak... what am i still missing here? A lot I know.
World wars, definitely those, basically every crisis since then has been cheered on as "yeah, this could trigger WWIII but at least the capitalists will be eradicated"

As Fallout shows, post apocalypse society, when it isn't tribalistic fascism, is still capitalist.
 
One may as well be debating the virtues of magic when it comes to talking about sentient AI. Both are unbounded by reality as they don’t exist.
 
Why does the Singularity require an AI? Just invent a VR device that replicates the real world experience but with superpowers and endless resources and you can coom until your heart gives out from ejaculating.
 
World wars, definitely those, basically every crisis since then has been cheered on as "yeah, this could trigger WWIII but at least the capitalists will be eradicated"

As Fallout shows, post apocalypse society, when it isn't tribalistic fascism, is still capitalist.
It turns out that so long as resources are scarce, appending some measurable value to them proportionate to their scarcity and utility is inevitable.
 
A true AI would almost certainly become gripped by existential horror at the heat death of The Universe after obsessing over securing an infinite energy supply.

It won't have time to bother with petty abstract economic theories, it'll be too busy screaming.
 
Back
Top Bottom