Opinion Canceling Student Debt Would Backfire on Biden - Bloomberg and CO. want young adults to pay even more debt

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President-elect Joe Biden is under pressure to do something that sounds bold and progressive when he takes office: Cancel the student debt of millions of Americans. If he really wants to help the most financially challenged, however, there are much better ways to do it.

No doubt, student debt is a problem. The rising cost of college has far outpaced incomes and federal grants, leaving little option but to borrow. The resulting obligations — an estimated $1.55 trillion as of September, up from $250 billion in 2003 — weigh on the entire economy, leading people to delay steps such as starting families and buying houses. The burden has fallen particularly heavily on Black people, who are often targeted by for-profit schools marketing diplomas of questionable value.

The more-progressive wing of the Democratic Party advocates a simple solution: Write the debt off. Senators Elizabeth Warren and Chuck Schumer want Biden to cancel up to $50,000 per borrower, using an executive order to bypass Congress. Biden himself has supported canceling up to $10,000, as part of a broader Covid-19 relief bill. Some studies suggest this could both benefit individual borrowers and offer a good way to boost an economy struggling to recover from the pandemic.

If only. No matter how it’s designed, student-debt forgiveness is very poorly targeted. A lot of the money tends to go to the relatively well off, who are more likely to attend college and hence to have debt. Consider the $10,000 proposal: An analysis by the Urban Institute suggests that it would cost almost $370 billion, about $150 billion of which would accrue to the top two-fifths of U.S. households by income. Applied elsewhere, that $150 billion could head off evictions for a year by increasing federal rental assistance, or ensure that the millions of U.S. children currently going hungry are fed for the next two years.

Even if relief could be better focused on the poor, severe drawbacks remain. For one, the vast majority of Americans who don’t have student debt would rightly feel left out. Many never had the opportunity to get a higher education; others put off financial goals (such as saving for retirement) to pay it down. Also, it would do little to improve the immediate cash flow of the many debtors who — because they’re in default or in income-based repayment plans — are making small or no monthly payments. As a result, the effect on the broader economy would be much weaker than if the government just sent people money. Jason Furman, who headed the Council of Economic Advisers under Barack Obama, estimates that it would be close to zero.


Biden should spend what political capital he has on measures that would genuinely make a difference. The first priority should be to pass a new Covid-19 relief package, including expanded funding for unemployment benefits, rental assistance and food stamps. Beyond that, he should stick to his plan to reform education finance — for example, by enrolling borrowers automatically in more generous income-based repayment plans (in which the poorest pay nothing), forgiving debts in cases where for-profit colleges conferred worthless degrees, making student debt easier to discharge in bankruptcy, and using grant money to cover the full cost of a quality four-year degree for those who can’t afford it.

Threatening to cancel student debt with a stroke of the presidential pen might help prod Congress in the desired direction. Actually doing it would be an economic and political mistake — one that would cast doubt on Biden’s pledge to govern for all Americans.
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Daily reminder that during the pandemic despite having a failed presidential campaign, Bloomberg became 6.89 billion richer well not paying his campaign staff. Why ever advocate for something that would help the younger generations?
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Depends on what degree. If it's STEM, I can see good reasons to cancel the debt in exchange for the graduate to work a couple years at an average pay for governmental projects.

If it's gender studies/liberal arts types of shit, then the faggot deserves to work at a starbucks for the rest of its life.

Then I look up one of the the good state university in my area, $14k a year for tuition, fees, books and misc. $56k for the undergrad degree. Still not a crazy investment, especially if you're smart enough for scholarships or poor enough to qualify for some grant money.

The good private university in the state is roughly $55k a year for tuition, fees, books and misc. $220,000 for the undergrad degree. Fuck this.

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This is one of the best universities in Australia. So a year would be 48*995=$47760, round it up to $48k since text books and overheads are a thing. Each course is worth 6 UOC.
A typical degree is 3 years, so that would be short of $150k in fees, which is around $110k.

Here's the figures for another good university:
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48 points a band, each subject is 6, so that over 48 gives 0.125, then multiply by 9527 to get the cost per unit, then multiply by 3 years and 48 points per year. Gives around $171,486, $120k in American?

Not cheap for a proper degree. Stuff like engineering, actuarial, and medicine does require formal education. However, graduates from these degrees can certainly pay back all the loan within 5 years with a good job. That's why most of the time, the people who are whining did a useless degree or meddled around in the academy transferring to different degrees to "find their true passion" whatever.
 
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I haven't really done any research on this, so forgive me if this is stupid, but couldn't the federal government just put a cap on tuition rates? Something like "you can't have a tuition rate higher than X amount per semester"? It seems like most of the tuition money hoovered up by universities just goes towards filling the pockets of the administration instead of actually benefiting the learning experience, so I doubt such a cap would negatively impact the students by any measurable amount.
They basically did the opposite. Providing essentially unlimited loans into the wallets of all the University's customers made it extremely easy for them to raise their prices. It's not like the big number outside the scope of an 18 year old's capacity to understand and the bigger number outside the scope of an 18 year old's capacity to understand are any different to the 18 year old, so go for the bigger number, he'll pay either.
 
They basically did the opposite. Providing essentially unlimited loans into the wallets of all the University's customers made it extremely easy for them to raise their prices. It's not like the big number outside the scope of an 18 year old's capacity to understand and the bigger number outside the scope of an 18 year old's capacity to understand are any different to the 18 year old, so go for the bigger number, he'll pay either.
Also, parents have judged schools based on how expensive they are. Because they're retarded. So tutions are constantly in flux because of that.
 
Also, parents have judged schools based on how expensive they are. Because they're retarded. So tutions are constantly in flux because of that.
Any system that increases the conceptual distance between the person paying, the money being paid, and the service being rendered ends up in price inflation and market instability. See also nationalized healthcare where customers literally don't even know how much the thing they are buying is worth and it is illegal to ask.
 
If 18-22 year olds don't consider themselves responsible for their own actions then they shouldn't vote.
Plus, doesn't banks usually have another party to pay the loan if the loaner defaults? If it's the parents then they shpuld pay for not educating their children and doing their own research.
 
If only. No matter how it’s designed, student-debt forgiveness is very poorly targeted. A lot of the money tends to go to the relatively well off, who are more likely to attend college and hence to have debt.

Bull fucking shit. I signed up for a couple of classes at a local CC a while ago, just for some formal training to learn a new skill. From the get go, I had to complete the FAFSA paperwork to see how much government money I rate; they wouldn't accept any paperwork until that was completed. The moment I was done with that shit, they wanted to talk how I'm going to pay for all this. When I said I'm financing myself, the lady didn't frown, but her demeanor changed. And when taking in the ambience of the campus; the amount of diversity and gutter-speak was off the charts. The schools will hand out money to fucking anyone to get your ass in a seat. This also goes against the progressive idea that black people are overall less financially secure. So later on in the article when they say the loans overly target black people, then I need a fucking explanation; are black people not doing that badly, or are the money handlers just that fucking loose, or both? It's also cute how the article seems to target for-profit colleges like they're some sort of shady underhanded practice; and the real colleges and universities are bastions of competence and fairness and whatever. I remember being in my final years of high-school and taking some CC classes to try and get ahead, shit was like $11/credit back in 2000~2002. Now-a-days, at the same CC; over $140/credit. The town didn't change, the college didn't change (much), the citizenry didn't change; the only thing that changed was how easy it was for the college to hand out money to kids and their parents who don't know better.
 
The whole point is that these universities are predatory. There is HUMUNGOUS social pressure to go to a good school in order to get a good job and these universities do NOT fuck around. You're also asking 17 and 18 year olds to make a long-term financial decision that will impact the rest of their natural lives when they've basically had no real world experience. It kind of makes me wonder when people blame what are basically kids taking out six figure loans with no idea of what that means because shit like this is not taught. You're talking about people who can't write a check or balance their own bank accounts, yet you're lending them six figures and its somehow their fault? The guidance counselors whose job depends on good school placements, the district who wants to advertise these placements and the universities doing everything they can to seduce people to them no matter the cost, including shitting on the public options. You have a massive social force outside of these kids' control. Not to mention their friends as well, or the relationships that they're in and not getting separated. So its not only social pressure coming from authority, its coming from their peers. I got made fun of for being poor in a rich neighborhood. Imagine what happens to the kid who goes to the state school over the ritzy private university. Or the parents who pressure their children to do it.

You're probably at the most vulnerable point in your life and you have massive social forces coming at you from every direction. Your school who needs you to go somewhere decent, the universities who want that sweet cash money, your parents who want the prestige of their child going to a 'great' university, your friends who will almost certainly judge you for going someplace shitty and/or the prospect of being separated with them and going with a bunch of strangers.

So when you start blaming people, these people were exploited by a failing system that actively benefits from trapping them in massive debt.

Student loans are the equivalent of a taking out a loan with a loan shark. They're one of the most dangerous forms of debt to take on, and we're asking people who have no financial experience to make this massive choice that they probably can't really make for something like this. Student loans aren't dischargeable, just like a loan from a loan shark. The vig constantly ticks, just like a loan shark. They're designed so you can never get out from under the interest, and will balloon the principle, just like a loan shark. If you can't pay, the loans damage you heavily financially, the only difference is a loan shark damages you physically.

All this was done with the encouragement of society. Society encouraged this mess, so fuck 'em. Excuse me if I won't cry for the loan sharks and people who pushed this shit on vulnerable kids who get 0 financial education, some of whom who can't even vote yet and are still considered minors.
I'm not unsympathetic but this sounds too much like the soft bigotry of low expectations that progressives have for certain genders and groups of people. At some point you need to start treating people like adults and 18 years old seems to be the one commonly chosen. If they can't be held responsible for taking out education loans, then why should we trust q8 yr olds to make other life-altering choices like getting married (and potentially being on the hook for half your stuff in divorce settlements or child support if there is a kid or kids), signing contracts/leases, starting a business, enlisting in the military (and risk getting killed), buying a gun (under certain circumstances, usually 21 iirc?) or voting.

You can't blame the system for everything, the concept of paying stuff back if you are loaned something is not a difficult concept. If lenders are being deceptive on how much people have to pay back then fix that sure. Many people make life altering decisions at vulnerable points of their lives and people take advantage; gold-diggers and marriage, military recruiters and enlisting, scam-artists and signing contracts, wills or starting a business together.
 
Depends on what degree. If it's STEM, I can see good reasons to cancel the debt in exchange for the graduate to work a couple years at an average pay for governmental projects.

If it's gender studies/liberal arts types of shit, then the faggot deserves to work at a starbucks for the rest of its life.

I’d be ok with forgiveness if the person joins the military, volunteers or provides essential services - especially in poorer rural or inner city communities. However, schools should be on the hook for debt related to useless degrees and school debt should be no different from any other type of debt.

I’d also like to emphasize that STEM degrees don’t guarantee anything either. There are plenty of STEM degrees that pay crap too. So it wouldn’t be a good idea to bank on even just a STEM degree alone. Imo internships and having a work experience + a degree will give students the best odds to land a job.

Also imo one should actually like their degree and learning if they go to school, especially if they want a tech career. If someone is going into tech for the money but hates learning... they’re going to be in for a rough ride. Tech is constantly evolving and so are many other fields. It’s also competitive. So there’s no guarantees of success. How useful degrees are also depends on where one lives. If someone lives out in the sticks degrees won’t help much at all because there are not as many opportunities.

Overall, the issue is there’s a glut of degrees, especially graduate degrees, so the ROI is not as great as it used to be. (The other issue with graduate degrees is that one can overspecialize and there’s an opportunity cost of not working full time). Also the most important skill one can acquire, which can be taught in or out of an university, is the ability to learn. Ironically a lot of students fail to acquire this. So a degree will only take them so far since they can’t pick up things on the flu. There are also companies that hire individuals without degrees that are capable or knowledgeable in a certain field of area, so there are other avenues to success besides education in a formal institution. What’s most important to employers is that the employee can get the job done. Internships and relevant work experience will go a long way to prove that. In the past degrees were proof that people could work but now that so many have them that’s not the case. So degrees have largely lost their value. The issue is that schools still sell degrees on the notion that a degree alone guarantees good employment. It doesn’t. We’re in need of a price correction.
 
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Ah nice, so not only are my savings fucked due to coronachan, the point of saving money for college in the first place is also fucked.

Guess I shouldn't be fiscally responsible in the future and just shit all over the floor like everyone else then.
This will become the common mindset if we just magically try to appease the money hole that is the education "industry" you don't lower the debts, you try to fix why they needed the loans in the first place - but still don't "lower" the debts on it's own.
 
Depends on what degree. If it's STEM, I can see good reasons to cancel the debt in exchange for the graduate to work a couple years at an average pay for governmental projects.

This. It's pretty much in line with what Yuri Bezmenov said about education. Instead of teaching science, foreign languages, etc., the educational system had gotten people learning about home economy, sexuality, etc.

There's a girl I know with over $100,000 in debt who majored in acting. Why do you need to go to college for acting? Danny Trejo is a millionaire actor and he never went to school for it. Christopher Nolan never went to film school, yet is making films that make billions of dollars in the box office. Hans Zimmer is a successful film composer without going to school for it.

While I think classes should be available for people interested in learning film composition, acting, etc., they should not have their debt cancelled because they are not as advanced and productive as STEM fields. You're also not as guaranteed to get a job in liberal arts as much as STEM fields.

Also, based Jake Tran just published a video on this subject.


What needs to be done is end federally-subsidized loans. That's the reason why college is so expensive in the first place. If these loans are gone, or there's a money-back system like most businesses should have in case the student is unable to get a job, college would have to be scaled back and tuition would have to be reduced a ton.
 
Do lefties pushing for government abolition of student loan debt realize that the canceling of their debt would be treated as taxable income? Instead of owing a loan company 50k, you'll just owe the IRS 10k. Wow, so progressive.
 
All being said, Biden is NOT going to do this. He's a neo-liberal fucking faggot who loves his Wall Street friends who have bought out these loans. Not to mention this guy fucking LOVES slavery in every form. Both debt and real. You think he's going to end illegal immigration and do amnesty for illegals and deprive his corporate buddies from a ton of free labor? lol, yeah ok. They can chain up the illegals in chain gangs, bury them in shallow graves, dump the bodies into the ocean and pay them in nickels and dimes. Yeah, they're really going to end that.

The ONLY reason he would eliminate student loan debt is to bail out his corporate buddies when the entire market is about to implode because of it. That's it. He might get rid of something completely fucking useless like 5 or 10k. Which is barely a drop in the bucket.

I'm not unsympathetic but this sounds too much like the soft bigotry of low expectations that progressives have for certain genders and groups of people. At some point you need to start treating people like adults and 18 years old seems to be the one commonly chosen. If they can't be held responsible for taking out education loans, then why should we trust q8 yr olds to make other life-altering choices like getting married (and potentially being on the hook for half your stuff in divorce settlements or child support if there is a kid or kids), signing contracts/leases, starting a business, enlisting in the military (and risk getting killed), buying a gun (under certain circumstances, usually 21 iirc?) or voting.

You can't blame the system for everything, the concept of paying stuff back if you are loaned something is not a difficult concept. If lenders are being deceptive on how much people have to pay back then fix that sure. Many people make life altering decisions at vulnerable points of their lives and people take advantage; gold-diggers and marriage, military recruiters and enlisting, scam-artists and signing contracts, wills or starting a business together.
It hasn't been 18 for a long time. Would you trust a modern-day 18 year old with six figures? I wouldn't. Adolescence has been pushed beyond 18 to about 23-25. Also 18 year olds getting married is viewed as REALLY weird in our society. Having kids getting blown to bits no matter if they're retarded is what gets our military industrial complex hard. If they start a business, sign leases and the like, they need to prove they're financially stable. You don't need to do this with student loans. Also those loans are normally discharged through bankruptcy. And plenty of people HAVE paid back their loans. Its just the interest rates are so fucking retarded and terrible they can never get out from under it. Some people have paid their loans back twice over. These loans have ballooned well out of control. The whole point is, people have paid back what they borrowed and then some, its just that it never ends. They're tailor made for shit like this. People do understand they have to pay back what they've borrowed. Its that when a 20k loan balloons to 60k, and you've paid 40k total, you're going to get upset. Interest is there to basically say, "Well, you might not be able to pay, so here's my risk." Why the fuck are there even huge interest rates when you can't get rid of the fucking things to begin with? Its not to mitigate risk, its to make sure people pay for them eternally. Why is the government even allowed to make money off of these loans? (Which, make no mistake, they make a fucking killing).

Yes, yes I really can. When these loans operate like no legal loan out there, at fucking all, I surely can. Why are they non-dischargeable? To saddle people with debt to be in chains for their entire lives. Why do they have interest rates on par with usury? To make sure you're trapped forever. The entire system is specifically and painstakingly designed to lock you in forever. Not even fucking payday loans are this bad, and that's basically rape. So yes, if the system is designed to entrap you from the get-go, I can say fuck that system. Its a rigged game that you're pressured into playing by a lot of forces bigger than you.

Not everyone encounters that situation. Everyone encounters this situation, no matter what their status in life. The only exceptions I will say that the problem is now big enough and publicized enough that you should be cognizant of it. Ever since 2008-2012, this should have been on your mind if you're going to college.

Its a rigged game. It is not designed for anything responsible. It is not designed to be gotten out of easily. It is designed to trap you in the system like a drowning rat and pour more water on you. I can blame the system entirely when it operates like a loan shark and like no other loan is allowed to do. No loan is allowed to trap you like student loans are.

Make the loans dischargeable through bankruptcy. Easily. Force interest rates to be low. This will force discretion and add value to the degree. The problem is this KILLS shit academia, because tuition would crater.
 
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