UK British News Megathread - aka CWCissey's news thread

https://news.sky.com/story/row-over-new-greggs-vegan-sausage-rolls-heats-up-11597679 (https://archive.ph/5Ba6o)

A heated row has broken out over a move by Britain's largest bakery chain to launch a vegan sausage roll.

The pastry, which is filled with a meat substitute and encased in 96 pastry layers, is available in 950 Greggs stores across the country.

It was promised after 20,000 people signed a petition calling for the snack to be launched to accommodate plant-based diet eaters.


But the vegan sausage roll's launch has been greeted by a mixed reaction: Some consumers welcomed it, while others voiced their objections.

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spread happiness@p4leandp1nk
https://twitter.com/p4leandp1nk/status/1080767496569974785

#VEGANsausageroll thanks Greggs

7
10:07 AM - Jan 3, 2019
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Cook and food poverty campaigner Jack Monroe declared she was "frantically googling to see what time my nearest opens tomorrow morning because I will be outside".

While TV writer Brydie Lee-Kennedy called herself "very pro the Greggs vegan sausage roll because anything that wrenches veganism back from the 'clean eating' wellness folk is a good thing".

One Twitter user wrote that finding vegan sausage rolls missing from a store in Corby had "ruined my morning".

Another said: "My son is allergic to dairy products which means I can't really go to Greggs when he's with me. Now I can. Thank you vegans."

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pg often@pgofton
https://twitter.com/pgofton/status/1080772793774624768

The hype got me like #Greggs #Veganuary

42
10:28 AM - Jan 3, 2019
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TV presenter Piers Morgan led the charge of those outraged by the new roll.

"Nobody was waiting for a vegan bloody sausage, you PC-ravaged clowns," he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Morgan later complained at receiving "howling abuse from vegans", adding: "I get it, you're all hangry. I would be too if I only ate plants and gruel."

Another Twitter user said: "I really struggle to believe that 20,000 vegans are that desperate to eat in a Greggs."

"You don't paint a mustach (sic) on the Mona Lisa and you don't mess with the perfect sausage roll," one quipped.

Journalist Nooruddean Choudry suggested Greggs introduce a halal steak bake to "crank the fume levels right up to 11".

The bakery chain told concerned customers that "change is good" and that there would "always be a classic sausage roll".

It comes on the same day McDonald's launched its first vegetarian "Happy Meal", designed for children.

The new dish comes with a "veggie wrap", instead of the usual chicken or beef option.

It should be noted that Piers Morgan and Greggs share the same PR firm, so I'm thinking this is some serious faux outrage and South Park KKK gambiting here.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

I said a few pages back that Letby was a scapegoat. Loads of nurses were killing kids due to lack of training and incompetence, but if the hospital was found doing it, they would be shut down.

Absolutely. You are allowed a few fuck ups but that isn’t supposed to come out. Even if the public likely knows. Because ‘expected accudental kid death’ looks real bad.

The fact that she seems to have got scapegoated means it was way worse.

 

[Howslans]

I said a few pages back that Letby was a scapegoat. Loads of nurses were killing kids due to lack of training and incompetence, but if the hospital was found doing it, they would be shut down.

So the top earners decided to pin it all on one 'baby serial killer' allowing them to wash their hands of the whole thing. Of course, their friends in the media helped push the narrative.

I listened to the whole trial on the Daily Mail‘s trial coverage podcast, it was one of those trials where she didn’t ever stand a chance of being found innocent, the crimes she was accused were so heinous, and the testimony of the parents so utterly heart wrenching - there was no way to remain impartial. I honestly don’t know whether she was guilty or not, the evidence was entirely circumstantial but it was strange that she was involved every single time a baby died. She certainly didn’t get a fair and unbiased trial.

 

[Overly Serious]

What was her reason given for writing "I did it!" and "I am evil" in her journal? If I remember that correctly. Just break down? Out of context?

 

[FedPostalService]

What was her reason given for writing "I did it!" and "I am evil" in her journal? If I remember that correctly. Just break down? Out of context?

Shhh, you’re ruining our “I can fix her” fantasy.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Shhh, you’re ruining our “I can fix her” fantasy.

Nothing better than fixing the evil baby murderer.

 

[Trig.Point]

I listened to the whole trial on the Daily Mail‘s trial coverage podcast, it was one of those trials where she didn’t ever stand a chance of being found innocent, the crimes she was accused were so heinous, and the testimony of the parents so utterly heart wrenching - there was no way to remain impartial. I honestly don’t know whether she was guilty or not, the evidence was entirely circumstantial but it was strange that she was involved every single time a baby died. She certainly didn’t get a fair and unbiased trial.

She was fucked because her barrister sold her down the river. He was first in the 'cab rank' lined up to hoover up some nice 'legal aid' cash, he called no expert witnesses, declared the NHS to be staffed by heros, and has fucked any chance of an appeal because he didn't object to any of the evidence.

 

[FedPostalService]

some nice 'legal aid' cash

called no expert witnesses

Any lawyers here? If there’s a barrister here please comment, but what the fuck are you doing here?

I though legal aid was super underfunded and no one wanted to do it unless they had to? Even then it’s only half arsed.

A firm isn’t going to pay for experts they are not able to charge for.

Legal aid, if I understand correctly, you’re getting the most basic of service possible and you’d better be innocent.

If you’re going against an entire profession, government department and organisation, you’re probably fucked, innocent or guilty, with legal aid representation.

Has funding changed in recent years? I can remember barristers and solicitors starting to boycott taking cases a while back?

 

[Howslans]

What was her reason given for writing "I did it!" and "I am evil" in her journal? If I remember that correctly. Just break down? Out of context?

If she is innocent, it might just be a really emo-kid-dear-diary-dramaqueen moment, under the pressure of losing so many babies in a short time got to her, 'it's aallll my faaauuullt' kind of thing. Which is childish but I'm don't think it's really evidence that she was really guilty.

Or if she's guilty then it's the dumbest criminal ever confessing in her diary.

Edit to answer your question if I remember correctly they just said it was her feeling responsible but not actually being responsible.

 

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

We're going to have to deal with the Letby truthers for years, aren't we?

Two of the babies were killed by being injected with insulin - the defence didn't deny this. If Letby didn't kill them, that means there's another murderer about. She also stalked the families on Facebook, tried to falsify the records, and of course wrote "I am evil, I did this".
The chances that this was a miscarriage of justice are exceptionally slim.

 

[FedPostalService]

We're going to have to deal with the Letby truthers for years, aren't we?

Two of the babies were killed by being injected with insulin - the defence didn't deny this. If Letby didn't kill them, that means there's another murderer about. She also stalked the families on Facebook, tried to falsify the records, and of course wrote "I am evil, I did this".
The chances that this was a miscarriage of justice are exceptionally slim.

Vaxxed?

 

[AssignedEva]

Vaxxed?

Vaccine injuries don't include separate injections of lethal insulin overdoses.

I was on the fence about Lucy Letby for a while because her defence lawyer was clearly shit. But it's the diaries and post it notes that made up my mind.


The notes are clearly schizo. There's not a single person who produces notes like this purely for their own reference who is not a schizo. She also continued making these notes after she was first arrested.

That in itself isn't incontrovertible. Maybe she was having a breakdown from being accused and blaming herself for being a shitty nurse and having those children die on her hands. But it's also notable during her schizo ramblings that she dwells on how she'll never have a family of her own. I don't know if it's because she's just too schizo to hold down a man, or if she's infertile, but I will say that finding out you're infertile and can never have kids can be incredibly devastating to a woman and I wouldn't wish infertility on anyone, besides maybe Wheelchair Rapunzel and her ilk. But either way, if Lucy was already a schizo and a psychopath, the news she was unable to have babies could easily have tipped her over the edge. There's an MO right there.

And that's where the diaries came in. The diaries include the names of every baby who died IIRC. They weren't necessarily the days those babies died, but they would tally with having done something that resulted in those children dying on the day, or a day or two later. They were all marked with a coded series of coloured asterisks which investigators deduced were her way of marking out a "significant day". Her defence for why she wrote down names of babies before they died and marked them with coloured asterisks was "I don't remember".

It is potentially possible that there was large scale medical malpractice in that hospital, and the trust covered it up by pinning it on a nurse who just so happened to write schizo notes to herself and coincidentally jotted down the names of babies who were struggling. But I don't think it's very likely.

 

[Overly Serious]

We're going to have to deal with the Letby truthers for years, aren't we?

Two of the babies were killed by being injected with insulin - the defence didn't deny this. If Letby didn't kill them, that means there's another murderer about. She also stalked the families on Facebook, tried to falsify the records, and of course wrote "I am evil, I did this".
The chances that this was a miscarriage of justice are exceptionally slim.

Per the article earlier they didn't actually test for insulin levels directly, they infer the insulin levels from antibodies and an expert on this approach quoted in the article is on record saying it shouldn't be used in that way.

I am not an expert, but it seems like there are a substantial number of people with strong credentials in the field who are saying that the evidence is extremely shaky. And though I wont venture a medical opinion of my own, I will say that given the political and organisational repercussions if this were overturned, she's not likely to get a fair chance at freedom even if innocent. Another case like Derek Chauvin or James Fields where the simple act of finding them innocent and reversing the decision would lead to huge consequences for those in power.

 

[isalaide]

You either trust juries, or you don't.
Letby had a jury trial. A jury of her peers listened carefully to months of evidence, including hers, and then they looked her in the eyes and decided, 'you did this'.

there are a substantial number of people with strong credentials in the field who are saying that the evidence is extremely shaky

Yes. They earn money as expert witnesses. Expert witnesses in the field of medicine will say anything for money, often without ever having examined the patient. (The Archie Battersbee thread has several examples of this).
Letby was also not convicted on medical evidence alone. (See Eva, above). Letby was convicted by her peers on the basis of all the evidence presented to them.
We should be enormously reluctant to disturb that finding.
The appeal court have determined she has no appeal on grounds of law.
There is no new evidence.

 

[Otterly]

Vaxxed?

No, probably not. V young children were generally not vaxxed here. Very few babies would have been, the only young kids I knew who got the shots had specific issues like CF.
The notes, the deaths and her behaviour certainly make me think she was guilty. Having said that, If there’s credible doubt then there needs to be a review. There should also be a full review into the rest of the hospital because it’s entirely possible that Letby was totally guilty AND that the hospital itself was to blame for some of the deaths. The nhs is a mess.

 

[Overly Serious]

You either trust juries, or you don't.

Oh, well that settles it then. No, I don't.

Juries in fiction:


Juries in reality:

 

[isalaide]

Oh, well that settles it then. No, I don't.

Juries in fiction:


Juries in reality:

I personally don't believe in jury trials. But the Letby truthers can't have it both ways. Either juries are the 'correct' way to decide complex questions of fact and law.... Or they aren't, and you get your judge, and he decides.
The pushback against that suggestion is always massive. "Judges are out of touch!" "Muh privilege! Much bias!" "Judges are too educated and librul!"
But what you can't have is, jury trial until you don't like the outcome, and then it's o no jury retarded.

 

[AssignedEva]

Juries can be stupid and my experiences of jury service was bleak and depressing (literally some people making a snap decision and others wanting to agree to get it over with). A failure to present expert witnesses means the jury, who have to make a judgement off what they're told, aren't presented with conflicting evidence.

At the same time, based on everything that came our around Lucy Letby? She's a schizo baby murderer, and those character references saying she was super nice and loved babies put me in mind of how people said Harold Shipman was a wonderful doctor; psychopaths hide in plain sight. I'm not closed off to the idea this was a mistrial but based on everything I've seen from this, my personal opinion is she murdered those babies.

 

[Trig.Point]

Any lawyers here? If there’s a barrister here please comment, but what the fuck are you doing here?

I though legal aid was super underfunded and no one wanted to do it unless they had to? Even then it’s only half arsed.

A firm isn’t going to pay for experts they are not able to charge for.

Legal aid, if I understand correctly, you’re getting the most basic of service possible and you’d better be innocent.

If you’re going against an entire profession, government department and organisation, you’re probably fucked, innocent or guilty, with legal aid representation.

Has funding changed in recent years? I can remember barristers and solicitors starting to boycott taking cases a while back?

For a murder trial once legal aid is granted they'll pay the going rate. Letby got fucked by the fact that the 'cab rank' system is still largely intact and she was stuck with the barrister her solicitor instructed. He like so many other British members of the legal profession was less concerned with defending his client than he was with not pissing off the court, the police, the cps and the larger legal community. He was I'm sure a lovely chap who did his best to make Lucy's transition to prison as painless as possible.

As for the experts, they are several stating they would have been happy to give evidence. It's just he didn't call any, he made a half arsed attempt to challenge Dr Evans the prosecutions main witness but offered none of his own. Incidentally Evans is now crying like a little bitch that he's getting 'hate' online. Which makes me think he's starting to worry about getting scrutiny, particularly from the foreign media that the courts can't cow.

At the same time, based on everything that came our around Lucy Letby? She's a schizo baby murderer, and those character references saying she was super nice and loved babies put me in mind of how people said Harold Shipman was a wonderful doctor; psychopaths hide in plain sight. I'm not closed off to the idea this was a mistrial but based on everything I've seen from this, my personal opinion is she murdered those babies.

There was a shit ton of actual physical evidence that Shipman was a murderer. It's just that nobody noticed until he got so blatant he started falsifying wills in a ham fisted way.

 

[FedPostalService]

I was hoping people saw my “vaxxed?” comment as a joke but now I don’t know if it is me or the people who replied who are retarded

 

[Otterly]

I was hoping people saw my “vaxxed?” comment as a joke but now I don’t know if it is me or the people who replied who are retarded

Eh, it’s not a bad question. There was an inquest into the stillbirth rate going sky high here after the shots were rolled out and pushed on pregnant women. The still birth rate and prematurity rates dropped hard (which is good) during the lockdowns, to the point the NICU was almost empty, and then as soon as the shots were rolled out it went right up. The inquest decided before it started that they would not be looking at the vaccines at all whatsoever no sir, they were absolutely sure it wasn’t that and would t want to affect public confidence in them. No no idea what causes the massively high rate of dead babies but we are totally sure it’s not the vaccines!

So to ask that if the deaths fell within that period is reasonable. And there will never ever be an inquest into that either