Business Big Tech Layoffs Megathread - Techbros... we got too cocky...

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Since my previous thread kinda-sorta turned into a soft megathread, and the tech layoffs will continue until morale improves, I think it's better to group them all together.

For those who want a QRD:


Just this week we've had these going on:

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But it's not just Big Tech, the vidya industry is also cleaning house bigly:

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All in all, rough seas ahead for the techbros.
 
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Kier Starmer said:
When this turns around, it's going to be hilarious, and the Indians are going to be despised. It is a win-win. I fucking despise Indians, even in tech they are fucking inept.
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Lobster Cult High Priest said:
In 10 years Indians have turned all White Canadians who aren't White collar boomers (who have been isolated in their upper management and C-suite roles) into rabid racists who hate all Jeets.
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Growing up when you thought of Indians, you thought of Apu. Great trade, India. Real smart. Replaced "Thank you, come again." with seething, visceral, real hatred.
 
moocow said:
Yeah, he's a retard. If he's that desperate for a steady income, temp agencies are always hiring, and so are big box stores like Walmart, Home Depot, Costco, Lowe's, etc. Even if it's just seasonal or temporary, it's continued employment.
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Meh… DoorDashing has qualities on its own. You’re (kinda) your own boss, don’t have to deal with coworkers.

Wouldn’t blame anyone for preferring that over soulless drudgery at Walmart.
 
Fapcop said:
Meh… DoorDashing has qualities on its own. You’re (kinda) your own boss, don’t have to deal with coworkers.

Wouldn’t blame anyone for preferring that over soulless drudgery at Walmart.
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Walmart puts far fewer miles on your car and doesn't bake in the stench of random people's food permanently into it.
 
The man The only man said:
Actual good IT guys and programmers are worth as much as gold (in Europe). So they won't actually fire people who do the actual work and I am also of the opinion that the people who do get fired by AI have fake jobs.
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That rule holds as long as the high-ups actually understand and appreciate what you do - and you might as well ask for a CEO who's an omnipotent supermodel, as long as we're shooting for the moon.

Of course it'll be idiotic and they're completely screwing themselves in all but the very shortest of short terms, but that's cold comfort for us technical plebs.
 
Posting this video because it's also part of the issue. There are just too many graduates who learned to code and ummm, the amount of positions in IT is shrinking.
NotebookLM summary:
This analysis contends that the "learn to code" movement of the past decade, fueled by political encouragement and media hype, led to a significant oversupply of computer science graduates from universities and coding bootcamps. This trend, while seemingly beneficial, resulted in strained educational resources, impersonal learning experiences, and graduates potentially unprepared for the realities of the job market. Despite promises of easy access to high-paying jobs, the tech industry's recent volatility, exacerbated by this surge in supply, has left many graduates facing unemployment and disillusionment. Ultimately, the video argues that focusing solely on a single career path ignores the importance of adaptability and broader problem-solving skills in a dynamic economy.
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More for those that don't want to watch the video:
The Unprecedented Surge in Computer Science Enrollment: The source highlights a dramatic and unsustainable increase in Computer Science (CS) enrollment at universities, exemplified by UC Berkeley's "one thousand, one hundred, and six percent" increase in CS graduates between 2011 and 2021. This trend is not limited to Berkeley, with institutions like MIT and CalTech also seeing disproportionate numbers of students majoring in CS fields.
  1. Key Fact: "Between 2011 and 21, the number of Computer Science graduates at UC Berkeley increased by one thousand, one hundred, and six percent."
  2. Key Fact: "A full forty percent of the school (MIT) that once helped invent the radar, spreadsheet, and lithium-ion battery studies the same one subject [Computer Science]...Two-hundred and sixty-six majored in Computer Science and Engineering. And that’s not even its largest CS major — Electrical Engineering and Computer Science is over twice as popular."
The "Learn to Code" Mantra and its Broad Appeal: The article posits that the "Learn to Code" slogan gained traction due to its perceived ability to address a wide range of concerns from different political and economic perspectives, particularly during the Great Recession. It was promoted as a "ticket to the middle class" and "the future."
  • Quote: "While in office, President Obama called coding a “ticket to the middle class.”"
  • Quote: "There was something for everyone in that 3-word-mantra, “Learn to code…”" (followed by examples for Republicans, corporations, national security hawks, diversity advocates, and Democrats).
  • Quote: "Absent any dissenting voices, there was every incentive to exaggerate the ease of coding and romanticize the life of a programmer."
Strain on Traditional Universities: The surge in CS students outpaced the growth in CS PhD students (future professors), leading to a critical shortage of instructors. This resulted in large class sizes, overworked professors, and an "impersonal, factory-like experience." Many universities resorted to measures like competitive application processes or even lotteries to manage enrollment in CS programs.
  • Key Fact: "while the total number of undergraduate CS students tripled in just 10 years, the number of Ph.D. students — who become professors — has stayed more-or-less the same."
  • Explanation: "The reason for this is no mystery: a Ph.D. student can expect to receive a $40,000/year stipend — if they’re lucky. That same student can easily earn $200,000 or more at Amazon or Netflix."
  • Quote: "In many Computer Science departments, is an impersonal, factory-like experience. Professors are perpetually stressed and invariably overworked. Class sizes are massive..."
The Rise and Fall of Coding Bootcamps: Coding bootcamps emerged as an alternative, promising a faster, cheaper path to tech jobs by focusing on marketable skills and interview preparation. While initially successful, they faced similar challenges to universities, including finding qualified instructors and maintaining quality as they scaled. They also struggled with accreditation and access to federal student loans.
  • Description: "The idea was simple: if you already knew what you wanted — a six figure job at Amazon — you could forgo the 4-year Computer Science degree, pay just 10 or 20, or 30 thousand dollars, and “learn” to code in a fraction of the time — usually 12 weeks or less."
  • Challenge: "Also like universities, bootcamps struggled to compete with the salaries on offer by Big Tech, often resorting to hiring their own recent graduates who couldn’t find work elsewhere, inflating their employment figures in the process."
  • Integration with Universities: Bootcamps increasingly partnered with universities through Online Program Managers (OPMs) to gain accreditation and access student loans, effectively becoming integrated into the traditional higher education system they sought to "disrupt."
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Bootcamps are absolute fucking cancer in Argentina. Hi, SoyHenry.
The Recent Tech Downturn and its Impact: The article highlights the significant tech layoffs in 2022-2024 as a direct consequence of economic shifts (rising interest rates) but also exacerbated by the oversupply of programmers created by the "Learn to Code" movement. This downturn has led to rescinded job offers, difficulty in finding employment for graduates, and the closure of many bootcamps.
  • Key Fact: "Nearly half a million tech workers were laid off in 2023 alone. Another quarter million lost their jobs once in 2022 and again in 2024."
  • Quote: "In total, that’s roughly the number of U.S. manufacturing jobs lost from the early 2000s “China Shock.”"
  • Quote: "even their best students can’t find jobs." (from a Berkeley professor)
The "Supply and Demand" Reality: The source argues that the "Learn to Code" narrative ignored basic economic principles, particularly the laws of supply and demand. The massive increase in the supply of programmers, while not the sole cause of the downturn, made tech workers more "expendable" to employers.
  • Quote: "How did this happen? Well, it’s not rocket science: “Learn to code,” meet another 3-word mantra: “supply and demand.”"
  • Quote: "But there’s no doubt that the over-supply of programmers — driven by “Learn to Code” — made workers more expendable in the eyes of employers."
Critique of "Learn to Code" as a Universal Solution: The article strongly refutes the idea that programming is a universal skill like reading or writing that everyone will need. It emphasizes that tech is just one industry among many and cannot absorb all unemployed individuals. Moreover, it points out that not everyone has the aptitude, interest, or life circumstances to succeed in coding or working in the tech industry.
  • Quote: "But if programming is not a universal skill like reading or writing, if it’s still just one, admittedly often lucrative career among many, then it just means a thousand percent more competition for a limited number of jobs."
  • Quote: "Programming simply could never have absorbed all seven million unemployed Americans."
  • Quote: "Overlooking the wide spectrum of human skills, interests, and circumstances was convenient. And although it sounded empowering as a soundbite, it was often much closer to exploitative, in practice."
The Importance of Adaptable and Non-Industry-Specific Skills: The source concludes by advocating for investment in broader, transferable skills such as critical thinking, strategic thinking, creativity, and problem-solving as the best way to navigate an uncertain labor market, rather than focusing on narrow, industry-specific skills like coding languages.
  • Quote: "The only solution — the best we can do — is be adaptable and invest in non-industry-specific skills like problem solving."
  • Quote: "what’s truly valuable in this fast-moving era we live in are higher-level skills like critical and strategic thinking, creativity, and problem solving. Programming languages come and go."
  • In conclusion, the provided source offers a critical perspective on the "Learn to Code" phenomenon, arguing that its overzealous promotion led to unrealistic expectations, strained educational systems, and an oversupplied job market that proved vulnerable to economic shifts. It advocates for a more nuanced approach to career development, emphasizing fundamental problem-solving skills over specific technical proficiencies.
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In the video, this article shows up, from CNN, titled "Learn to code, get a job"
 
Ahriman said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bThPluSzlDUEmbedding vid.

Pretty insightful.
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Yea but it softens the real problem as well.

This happened during the Age of Free Money. I had to live with these certified assholes with their holier than thou, discrimatory proactices. I do not have any fucking sympathy for any of them. It is their fucking society they created for themselves with their socialistic mind set.

The Doom Loops that I previous posted are;

1.) All woke progressive cities.
2.) All tech.

They own their own disasters. Not I.
 
 
The "Learn to Code" Mantra and its Broad Appeal: The article posits that the "Learn to Code" slogan gained traction due to its perceived ability to address a wide range of concerns from different political and economic perspectives, particularly during the Great Recession. It was promoted as a "ticket to the middle class" and "the future."

  • Quote: "While in office, President Obama called coding a “ticket to the middle class.”"
  • Quote: "There was something for everyone in that 3-word-mantra, “Learn to code…”" (followed by examples for Republicans, corporations, national security hawks, diversity advocates, and Democrats).
  • Quote: "Absent any dissenting voices, there was every incentive to exaggerate the ease of coding and romanticize the life of a programmer."
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Two other drivers I've noticed are

1) Cost - a CS program needs lecture rooms + instructors just like any other major but it does not need the large, expensive labs that are effectively mandatory for most other STEM majors. These are one-time + recurring savings, and unlike most soft sciences a CS program can still get $$$ in research grants (which pads the university's bottom line since it is entitled to a cut of all grants). The only other majors with this kind of high upside / low downside I can name are economics and industrial engineering.

ETA: As a corollary to not needing labs self-study and online-only courses are more acceptable in CS than any other STEM discipline, which makes the talent pool even larger and reduces job/salary prospects accordingly.

2) Bimodal pay distribution - In my day job, every employee who quits goes through an exit interview; two of the questions in the interview are 'where are you going from here' and 'why are you leaving'. For our IT department nearly everyone gave one of two answers: 'I'm retiring' or 'I'm going to Google in [nearby location in the same county] because they are offering twice the pay for the same work'. Before you ask the Google site is not that big and it is hardly the only place in the region that needs CS/IT/EE skills.

Based on that I suspect at least some of the unemployment is driven by people unwilling to swallow their pride and settle for jobs with the same title but 1/2-2/3 the pay of their previous Big Tech job.
 
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UncleTusky said:
hardly the only place in the region that needs CS/IT/EE skills.
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This is one thing a lot of people don't understand, many places besides Google etc. hire for IT and Programming. All the jobs suck, Google included. But you can go work for a large bank, a hospital, or one of a thousand other places. Sure, if you work at a game company maybe you get a perk of trying out the game as it's being developed, but it's going to be the same shitty work as every other company. On the other hand many times you'll find the smaller companies, especially ones whose focus isn't IT are much more sane and you work the same 40 hours as all the other employees, maybe with a bit of on-call instead of Google's "we buy you food so you can live at the office".

Or maybe I'm just bitter since I've never made more than $1000 off my stock options.
 
DavidS877 said:
Or maybe I'm just bitter since I've never made more than $1000 off my stock options.
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No, I'm with you. I found a tech job outside of tech, in Utilities. Boring internal crap, but pays well, and has reasonable expectations for that pay. I'm not expected to revolutionize the world or deliver a billion dollar project, I've got my tool and my job is to help everyone else do their job with it. Only downside is IT is always run on a shoestring budget, but I'd rather do my work with 2-3 good, chill other people beside me rather than 50 asskissers who only want to be on a project to pad their internal portfolio for distant HR determined promotions.
 
DavidS877 said:
On the other hand many times you'll find the smaller companies, especially ones whose focus isn't IT are much more sane and you work the same 40 hours as all the other employees, maybe with a bit of on-call instead of Google's "we buy you food so you can live at the office".
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The other big selling point you consistently see from companies that do not compete with brand-name companies on salary is flexibility - to your point about 40 hours / week they are usually lenient about flexing time and non traditional schedules so long as you get your hours in, meet deadlines, and don't cause headaches for your coworkers. Whether or not Google offers that is a distinction without a difference when 60 hours / week is the expectation.

ETA: Breadth is becoming a selling point for mid size companies, if you are interested in branching out getting yourself loaned out to another group is fairly easy so long as you are getting decent performance reviews.

ETA x2: Any company that has a '2 tier' system where some positions work ~40 hours while others work ~60 is begging for trouble, especially if they are in the same specialty.

Most companies in my line of work only expect ~40 hours / week, maybe ~45-50 for managers and staff engineers, and raising those baselines is considered a nonstarter when the talent pool is small and onboarding new staff takes months at a minimum. So how do they meet deadlines and stay on budget when the regular staff just doesn't have the bandwidth to do it all? Bring in outside contractors with Big Tech (or higher) pay and hours - the annual pay is absurd but when you calculate their hourly rate it's lower than regular staff's, and they might get moved to another site based on where they are needed. So the regular staff see the contractors as money-grubbing and disloyal while the contractors see regular staff as unambitious workshys.

It's a dysfunctional climate that can't be undone easily, and nobody should want to emulate it.
 
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