Back 4 Blood - Left 4 Dead's spiritual successor

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postal_dad said:
the guy also uploaded one vid on HS Top which is one of my fav L4D2 channels. it's comparing B4B bugs with similar L4D ones.

while his point is "left 4 dead has the same bugs and nobody complains about them. they find it fun because of blind nostalgia", he also fucked it up. showing a 2021 UE4 game having same problems with a 2009 Source game? instant L.
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Honestly the bug comparisons still looked bad for B4B. He showed a bot jumping to it's death in an effort to revive the player, as well as a mid-air melee kill causing the zombie to play it's death animations in mid-air.
 
postal_dad said:
the guy also uploaded one vid on HS Top which is one of my fav L4D2 channels. it's comparing B4B bugs with similar L4D ones.

while his point is "left 4 dead has the same bugs and nobody complains about them. they find it fun because of blind nostalgia", he also fucked it up. showing a 2021 UE4 game having same problems with a 2009 Source game? instant L.
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People didn't complain about the bugs because 202X Twitter wasn't a thing. Twitter of 2009 was a very different place, and nowhere nearly as adopted. Left 4 Dead 2 was also not a grind fest where you need to do each campaign 50+ times to unlock your options and where a few bad bugs can cut your progress short and force you to restart while losing all your loot because lmao get good and lucky. L4D2 also didn't sell a $100 version is fugly costumes and have a 1-year set of content behind a paywall, either. Content I expect to be the last set of updates for this dead game.
 
Overcast said:
That’s honestly why I love 2 so much. The stuff it added made the gameplay much more dynamic and less samey. The corner shoving shoving strategy undermined a lot of the strength the special infected have. And it did so without changing the core gameplay much or adding unnecessary elements that over complicate the games.

And most importantly, none of it had mechanics that undermine the entire premise that established the first game, which is to stick together and work as a team. Saw somewhere there was some kind of ability in B4B that allowed people to break out of an enemy’s snare BY THEMSELVES. That’s not what a spiritual successor of L4D would do.
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I kinda like em both.

Left4Dead is an action game where you run out in the open alot, while Left4Dead1 is more about being cautious. Even Left4Dead1 versus is better off since you have less charger-decided games and more of an emphasis on supporting the common infected.
 
Slap47 said:
I kinda like em both.

Left4Dead is an action game where you run out in the open alot, while Left4Dead1 is more about being cautious. Even Left4Dead1 versus is better off since you have less charger-decided games and more of an emphasis on supporting the common infected.
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L4D1 has lot of things that smells Turtlerock. i want to love it but L4D2 has everything it had. L4D2 fixed Jesus spots with Spitter, fixed annoying ass skips on Versus and they're still doable on campaign. shoving cooldown is also one thing L4D2 did better.
I think Charger wouldn't be a mini-boss if he wasn't immune to shoving. he can already wipe-out one team at once, has fuck ton of health and can smack 10dmg.
 
i am Bill said:
3 new special infected
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They really don't know what made the SI in L4D really special huh? It was all about balance, giving new SI just makes things more difficult and tedious.
i am Bill said:
L4D1 has lot of things that smells Turtlerock. i want to love it but L4D2 has everything it had. L4D2 fixed Jesus spots with Spitter, fixed annoying ass skips on Versus and they're still doable on campaign. shoving cooldown is also one thing L4D2 did better.
I think Charger wouldn't be a mini-boss if he wasn't immune to shoving. he can already wipe-out one team at once, has fuck ton of health and can smack 10dmg.
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Mechanically, it makes sense. I still miss ragdolls (especially since L4D1 had ragdolls on death by default, rather than death animations in 2 just to compensate for the Defibs). Also, the theme in L4D1 is pure kino, horror theme done right, something L4D2 tried to emulate and went full-action instead.
 
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WULULULULU said:
They really don't know what made the SI in L4D really special huh? It was all about balance, giving new SI just makes things more difficult and tedious.

Mechanically, it makes sense. I still miss ragdolls (especially since L4D1 had ragdolls on death by default, rather than death animations in 2 just to compensate for the Defibs). Also, the theme in L4D1 is pure kino, horror theme done right, something L4D2 tried to emulate and went full-action instead.
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I ended up modding the L4D1 menu back in, hits just the right spot.
 
postal_dad said:
L4D1 has lot of things that smells Turtlerock. i want to love it but L4D2 has everything it had. L4D2 fixed Jesus spots with Spitter, fixed annoying ass skips on Versus and they're still doable on campaign. shoving cooldown is also one thing L4D2 did better.
I think Charger wouldn't be a mini-boss if he wasn't immune to shoving. he can already wipe-out one team at once, has fuck ton of health and can smack 10dmg.
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The Charger has probably the worst pinning move, in a sense. He can't easily escape into a horde like a Hunter or a Jockey, and can't attack from a safer distance like a Smoker or a Spitter. Also, remember that his move has a good deal of delay between landing the hit and dealing the damage. Not much of one, but enough for a few shotgun shells to give his health bar the pink slip. Compare this to the Hunter (who deals the damage very quickly) or the Jockey (who can hide behind the survivor and move them around) and you have a class that basically won't survive the assault. I see the inability to be shoved as a trade-off for being a massive target with the most delayed pinning move.

Sure, a charger can IN THEORY team wipe, but only in select circumstances. Giving the special infected a mini tank means, especially in verses, there's a low-risk infected to start an assault.

WULULULULU said:
Also, the theme in L4D1 is pure kino, horror theme done right, something L4D2 tried to emulate and went full-action instead.
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Actually, L4D2's direction for the music (and the gameplay in general) wasn't "let's make it an action game". IN the case of the music, they wanted to evoke the American South and its strong musical identity into the music without compromising what people expect, so they remixed the horde and menu themes for each campaign.

i am Bill said:
First DLC is announced. 2 new survivors, 3 new special infected, weapon skins and survivor costumes, etc.
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Great news. Play WWZ Aftermath instead.
 
Another fucking update.

On a scale of 1 to 10, it's a firm 3 on the Fuck you meter.

  1. Prophet Dan, a new irish survivor who's here to hunt protestants...errr.Ridden and save his flock. His powers include, starting with a magnum! ( which is cool because my medic build only uses the magnum) and REVIVING. Every time some goes down and gets revived, he activates a random special ability that ranges from worthless ( flashbangs and grenades everywhere) to useful ( full healing/ free money) to amazing ( free life for everyone). Note this power is fucking useless on any difficulty above easy because you don't want to go down without Medical Professional. It's an easy way to farm lives if someone has enough of those medic burn cards and like 6 support slots. 1662143360086.png
  2. New Enemies! Meet the Evil Squad. Huntsman Sniper, Machina Sniper, Bonk Scout and Mad Milk Scout. The lore now implies that the infection CAN kill you, but it won't. In fact, alot of people have been living with it and adapted. But the Tunnels of Terror also implied that the enemies you've been fighting are not humans, but in fact budget clones of humans made from left-over dead bodies of people who didn't survive the transformation into whatever the New Ridden Humans are. Good luck if you're playing as Jim. The Crone can rapid fire and the sniper will prioritize him hilariously. It's fucking nightmarish at how often you get hit in this DLC once the Pusfucker shows up with those damn jars. The game didn't need another enemy that can summon more enemies. The Ogre Summons. The Hag Summons. The Snitch Summons. The Sleeper Summons and then enemies summon themselves on a timer. This is overkill imo.
  3. 1662143668905.png
  4. ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT GRIND. So now, rather than add the new cards to the supply line, you have to collect duffle bags. One bag per level, 12 new cards to collect, with OVER 100 NEW PROFILE ITEMS IN THE ITEM POOL. That's right. Those shitty icons nobody but your friends can see in the lobby? You have to wade through 100+ runs in order to get the new cards. If you're lucky and I mean the king of fucking luck, you can pull 12 cards in 12 runs. Unlucky? Prepare to run over 1000 rounds and hope someone find the Duffle Bags. They took the worst aspect of Payday 2 and made it shittier. Bravo developers!
And the icing on the cake, the levels are linear death traps with large open arenas for ruining your runs by being surrounded by enemies. Holly is an absolute necessity for the new content otherwise you're getting overrun.
The Prison level where you fight the Ogre is the biggest example of how bullshit it is. You go down the slide and you LAND DIRECTLY AT THE OGRES FUCKING FEET WITH ONLY A SPLIT SECOND TO ATTEMPT TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.

On Recruit,it does a little damage.
On Veteran, it does a lot of fucking damage.
You get where I'm going with this? It's a poorly planned challenge designed to make you run the level again if you're unprepared.

The same with the Mine-Cart escort.
If you don't switch the track, you'll find yourself defending the cart endlessly from Snipers.

And the Bear Traps. The Bear Traps don't spawn until a hoard is summoned. So you can walk through an area, then an wave of enemies arrive, turn around or back up, the same exact steps you just took and hit a bear trap. It's shit and the developers know it.
 
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Having read the comments under the trailer I am amazed.
People are basically playing/loving this because it's a game they can compare and oppose to a valve product.

This shit is deader than the animations of the "zombies"
 
so.. is TRS gonna suck up valve and add a L4D crossover or they'll be persistent with their "we made THE left 4 dead. we'll keep up with this and never refer to it again"
 
Montalbane said:
Having read the comments under the trailer I am amazed.
People are basically playing/loving this because it's a game they can compare and oppose to a valve product.

This shit is deader than the animations of the "zombies"
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I still don't get why they keep comparing it to Left 4 Dead. At this point, the game has more in common with Payday 2 or Borderlands!

That's one of my biggest irritations with the game in general. It's a Faux-Rogue Like.

Each character has their own special stats and builds that work.

That implies that each character has a role to fulfill, the problem? Half the characters don't have real roles and the way Turtlecock nerfs anything people find useful really pushes it home that they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

Mom for example, her ORIGINAL extra life and extra support ability made it so people didn't need to carry extra life cards AND could carry one more healing item, which was infinitely more useful than her current power which is just 1 support item and slower decaying temp health.. Which is meaningless since they increased the rate it decreases due to adding more abilities that synergize with temp health. Like wow.

Holly, Evangelo and Sharice are SUPPOSED to be Walls. While everyone is reloading, they're still swinging. But the cucks on Reddit ACTUALLY CRIED SO HARD ABOUT THE HOLLY PLAYER HOLDING BACK THE SWARM THAT THEY NERFED HER AND MELEE SO FUCKING HARD THAT ONLY HOLLY IS STILL GOOD AT IT.

I'll never understand the losers who complain about the defensive character actually being capable of defense.

Anyway. They wanted you to play the game like an RPG.
The Support, Karlee, who had the money cards, the increased item spawn cards and could debuff with flashbangs.
The DPS, Walker/Jim/Hoffman who could deal out MASSIVE amounts of damage in a short period of time.
The Healer, Doc/Mom, who could tank damage while healing and could recover the team instantly.
The Wall Holly/Angelo, tank damage, stagger specials and hold back regulars while the team was healing or reloading.
Simple right?

Then the nerfs started, because players actually affording upgrades due to using the money cards was considered overpowered.
Then they "reworked" cards because the combinations were too good.
Then they moved items around because the reuse abilities procced on Barbed Wire, so they moved it to a slot that almost never procs the item reuse ability.
Then they introduce the Cost of Avarice, which is the downright, shittiest run ruining card possible.
Pull this card and you HAVE to spend that money you're hoarding.
Pull this card and every drop in the level becomes 100 coin piles that debuff you severely.
Getting this card on long as fuck levels is a death sentence because no other items spawn. : ^ )

But you're still supposed to play a role. Holly has to choose between tanking hits or dealing damage now. Making her a tissue paper wall because they removed the bonus stamina from a lot of cards.
Doc has to choose between healing the team or staying alive long enough to heal the team. You can't have both now.
Karlee has to choose between being crippled by Cost of Avarice or just being Evangalo with a Gun.

The new random loot bag shit should be the death of the game, but the cucks over on reddit can't even call it shit without sucking on the developer's cocks. Like holy fuck. They're twisting themselves into knots trying to be nice while expressing their dislike with the update.


And what I love is how the developers cater to the Redditors by giving them exactly what they want but then making everything else shit in response.
 
Starved Artist said:
I still don't get why they keep comparing it to Left 4 Dead. At this point, the game has more in common with Payday 2 or Borderlands!

That's one of my biggest irritations with the game in general. It's a Faux-Rogue Like.

Each character has their own special stats and builds that work.

That implies that each character has a role to fulfill, the problem? Half the characters don't have real roles and the way Turtlecock nerfs anything people find useful really pushes it home that they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

Mom for example, her ORIGINAL extra life and extra support ability made it so people didn't need to carry extra life cards AND could carry one more healing item, which was infinitely more useful than her current power which is just 1 support item and slower decaying temp health.. Which is meaningless since they increased the rate it decreases due to adding more abilities that synergize with temp health. Like wow.

Holly, Evangelo and Sharice are SUPPOSED to be Walls. While everyone is reloading, they're still swinging. But the cucks on Reddit ACTUALLY CRIED SO HARD ABOUT THE HOLLY PLAYER HOLDING BACK THE SWARM THAT THEY NERFED HER AND MELEE SO FUCKING HARD THAT ONLY HOLLY IS STILL GOOD AT IT.

I'll never understand the losers who complain about the defensive character actually being capable of defense.

Anyway. They wanted you to play the game like an RPG.
The Support, Karlee, who had the money cards, the increased item spawn cards and could debuff with flashbangs.
The DPS, Walker/Jim/Hoffman who could deal out MASSIVE amounts of damage in a short period of time.
The Healer, Doc/Mom, who could tank damage while healing and could recover the team instantly.
The Wall Holly/Angelo, tank damage, stagger specials and hold back regulars while the team was healing or reloading.
Simple right?

Then the nerfs started, because players actually affording upgrades due to using the money cards was considered overpowered.
Then they "reworked" cards because the combinations were too good.
Then they moved items around because the reuse abilities procced on Barbed Wire, so they moved it to a slot that almost never procs the item reuse ability.
Then they introduce the Cost of Avarice, which is the downright, shittiest run ruining card possible.
Pull this card and you HAVE to spend that money you're hoarding.
Pull this card and every drop in the level becomes 100 coin piles that debuff you severely.
Getting this card on long as fuck levels is a death sentence because no other items spawn. : ^ )

But you're still supposed to play a role. Holly has to choose between tanking hits or dealing damage now. Making her a tissue paper wall because they removed the bonus stamina from a lot of cards.
Doc has to choose between healing the team or staying alive long enough to heal the team. You can't have both now.
Karlee has to choose between being crippled by Cost of Avarice or just being Evangalo with a Gun.

The new random loot bag shit should be the death of the game, but the cucks over on reddit can't even call it shit without sucking on the developer's cocks. Like holy fuck. They're twisting themselves into knots trying to be nice while expressing their dislike with the update.


And what I love is how the developers cater to the Redditors by giving them exactly what they want but then making everything else shit in response.
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Worse when the skills are locked on the characters/cards. Payday's stats are based on what you customize the weapon (unlike B4B where the attachments are glued for no reasons other than artificial stats) and which perk you set. If you want to play Crew Chief, you pick crew chief and just play until you get max perk level, then you can pick another role and do it again. The system Turtlecock seems to build upon is locking skills on characters, while in Payday, the characters are skins you can choose to play.

This isn't trying to ape up Payday, this is aping up to be Overwatch but with skill/card grinding.
 
me and my friends all hate it
it's a boring, unfun mess
who cares about any of these features, they sure as hell totally don't make me wanna go back to playing L4D2
 
Blackwell Abyss said:
Thank fuck someone else caught this. Jim mains get absolutely fucked while pushing the mine cart on any difficulty above recruit. And God forbid you get the cost of avarice on your run-through.
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The cucks on Reddit are really something special when it comes to this game. It's like any game developer that listens to Reddit goes full retard with balance. Jim and Holly have seen SIGNIFICANT nerfs with the new enemies. The Cum Slinger depletes your stamina, three of them running around and Holly suddenly becomes dead weight. Since it's a ranged enemy, it's hanging out in the back of packs throwing jizz jars with impunity And the best part, it has a running throw! so even if you stagger it, it will still throw the shit.

As you said. Jim mains get straight fucked , the least they could do is give him a buffer before he loses his stacks since now enemies can actively and instantly inflict damage.

The Slasher cunt is just insane Bleed Out deals over 200HP of damage if you have multiple ticks. That's not counting the base damage of the actual slash-slam and regular slice attack.

The new Break Time card is fucking insane, sets your health to 60 points. Meanwhile, the Slasher can deal over 80 points of damage in single hit due to how bleedout works. Don't even get me started on fucking Nightmare/NoHope Bruisers. The motherfucker insta-killed me from 400 fucking health.

Anyway. The plus side of the bullshit.

Expired T-5 creates a cloud of fire that deals 8 weak point damage to surrounding ridden. That's pretty fucking cool.
Downsides? You can't carry healing items, it costs 50 assault rifle ammo to use and has a 25 second cool down for 5 seconds of activation.

According to Reddit, that's overpowered. Meanwhile, if you pop the game to anything harder than Recruit, you'll realize that you've sacrificed the ability to heal yourself for nothing. I ran this shit on Nightmare and Flaming Ridden spawned. So, I can't deal damage with it AND I can't heal.

But you can't explain anything to those robocucks. Call me old school, but I like being rewarded after a hard challenge.
These fucking newfags don't know what being rewarded is. They think being punished for nothing and getting nothing out of it is a good time. Like I don't understand how these anti-power cucks operate. I enjoy crafting some bullshit weapon or some bullshit insane build that I worked for, I don't enjoy struggling after I've completed the Struggle.
 
Starved Artist said:
I don't understand how these anti-power cucks operate.
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I have a few theories.

1. They have got something and want to slam the door closed behind them. I saw this in Payday 2 a lot. Some new heist would come out and people would beat it on the hardest difficulty using an exploit or OP build, whatever the current meta was. Then would demand nerfs to players and patches for the heists, making their achievement/reward rare and more exclusive.

2. Bad players wanting to pretend they are elite. If you're a high tier competitive player, there's no faking that. In a PvE game, there are ways around that. As before, they want to pretend to be elite hardcore top tier players on the internet, but in practice just play on easy. I see this a lot with MMOs and on ResetEra. ResetEra will claim to boycott a popular game for one reason or another, just for half the forum to find themselves "gifted" a copy on Steam. MMO players will complain about the lack of difficult raids, but when their account shows they've never beaten the raid on normal, there's some excuse why they didn't get the achievement.

2.5. Bad players in denial. Similar to the above, these people believe they are top tier players, but they're clearly outclassed by people that use builds they don't like. There's a classic quote I read somewhere. "Rock is OP. Paper is balanced." -Scissors

3. Grognards. It wasn't in Left 4 Dead, so it shouldn't be here. Since the devs can't or won't simply remove these features, nerf them into uselessness.
 
Judge Dredd said:
I have a few theories.

1. They have got something and want to slam the door closed behind them. I saw this in Payday 2 a lot. Some new heist would come out and people would beat it on the hardest difficulty using an exploit or OP build, whatever the current meta was. Then would demand nerfs to players and patches for the heists, making their achievement/reward rare and more exclusive.

2. Bad players wanting to pretend they are elite. If you're a high tier competitive player, there's no faking that. In a PvE game, there are ways around that. As before, they want to pretend to be elite hardcore top tier players on the internet, but in practice just play on easy. I see this a lot with MMOs and on ResetEra. ResetEra will claim to boycott a popular game for one reason or another, just for half the forum to find themselves "gifted" a copy on Steam. MMO players will complain about the lack of difficult raids, but when their account shows they've never beaten the raid on normal, there's some excuse why they didn't get the achievement.

2.5. Bad players in denial. Similar to the above, these people believe they are top tier players, but they're clearly outclassed by people that use builds they don't like. There's a classic quote I read somewhere. "Rock is OP. Paper is balanced." -Scissors

3. Grognards. It wasn't in Left 4 Dead, so it shouldn't be here. Since the devs can't or won't simply remove these features, nerf them into uselessness.
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You're right on all accounts.
The latest update proved it.

- Expired T-5 was useless on higher difficulties when FIREPROOF enemies appeared.

- Faggots on reddit cried about people killing all the enemies ON EASY
Like, I've NEVER seen a game where people turn into whiny bitches about being unable to kill some of the infinite shitty trash enemies. Boo fucking hoo, you didn't get to shoot the regular infinitely spawning enemies. It's not like kills grant EXP or anything like that. In fact, most players should be happy , someone sacrificed their build to make a shield that actually protects their teammates until specials and fireproof enemies show up anyway.

- They celebrate it's being nerfed

- Developers add a BOSS FIGHT To the box escort mission with the 5 minute timer because people kept complaining about folks pressing against the wall and shooting enemies for 5 minutes.

-New enemies glitch out and do impossible amounts of damage.

- Cucks celebrate being unable to beat the mission on Nightmare/ No Hope

And one year since the launch of the game, you can still fall through the fucking staircase on Level 1. If you're an achivement hunter or just wanted to pretend to play L4D, the window of fun just closed. The only people left are exactly what you mentioned.
 
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