Austria Bans the burqa - immigrants are also obliged to sign an integration contract.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/austria-to-ban-burqas-starting-in-october/

VIENNA, Austria — New Austrian legislation came into force Friday that will ban the full-face Islamic veil in public places from October 1.


The outlawing of the burqa or other clothing concealing the face follows similar moves in other countries in the European Union, starting with France in 2011.

In Austria, people who break the new law could be fined up to 150 euros ($16, according to the legislation approved by parliament in May and signed into law by the president this week.

Other measures include a clampdown on distributing extremist material, and immigrants being obliged to sign an “integration contract.”

A 12-month “integration program” will include courses in “values” and the German language. Failure to attend can result in cuts to social security payments.

The legislation was hammered out by the centrist government amid strong support for the far-right and the arrival of 90,000 asylum-seekers since 2015.

The “grand coalition” under Chancellor Christian Kern collapsed last month and early elections were called for October 15.

The far-right Freedom Party (FPOe), whose candidate came close to winning the largely ceremonial presidency last year, is riding high in opinion polls ahead of the vote.

 

[Cosmos]

I'm not sure how I feel about an outright ban of the burka and niqab (the face veil that covers everything but the eyes), because it might end up giving Muslim women less freedom than they had before. It's entirely possible that they'll just not leave their homes if they're not allowed to cover their faces.

That being said, I absolutely despise burkas and niqabs. They basically exist to reduce women to objects and create a wall of isolation around whoever wears them. It's really hard to stress just how important facial expressions are to communication; they're so important, in fact, that we had to create emoticons/emoji to act as substitutes for facial expressions when we're using text to communicate. Moreover, a person's face is what humanizes them. Just think about it- is it easier to connect with a person who's not wearing a mask or a person who is wearing one?

By covering your face, you are blocking yourself off from the most basic and one of the most important aspects of human communication. You're making it much, much harder to connect with other people. That's why there's such a huge difference between hijab and face veils; hijab doesn't prevent women from communicating.

 

[heathercho]

I'm not sure how I feel about an outright ban of the burka and niqab (the face veil that covers everything but the eyes), because it might end up giving Muslim women less freedom than they had before. It's entirely possible that they'll just not leave their homes if they're not allowed to cover their faces.

That being said, I absolutely despise burkas and niqabs. They basically exist to reduce women to objects and create a wall of isolation around whoever wears them. It's really hard to stress just how important facial expressions are to communication; they're so important, in fact, that we had to create emoticons/emoji to act as substitutes for facial expressions when we're using text to communicate. Moreover, a person's face is what humanizes them. Just think about it- is it easier to connect with a person who's not wearing a mask or a person who is wearing one?

By covering your face, you are blocking yourself off from the most basic and one of the most important aspects of human communication. You're making it much, much harder to connect with other people. That's why there's such a huge difference between hijab and face veils; hijab doesn't prevent women from communicating.

I think it just comes down to the fact that if they wish to live outside of their little sand filled hellholes, in multiethnic socities, then that's the price they have to pay. The burka must go.
Everyone else before them has had to give something up to participate in a multiethnic society, ergo, so do they.

Also too, women from every other culture have had to fight for their rights to religious and societal freedoms, so I don't feel sorry for them, they aren't unique.
If these burka wearing individuals want the spoils of western society, then they must renounce their specific sect of Islam. The freedom to live in a peaceful, affluent society like the one Austria has, is at a cost. If they choose not too, then too bad, you aren't compatible for the society, go back.

 

[Huitzilopochtli]

I'm still pretty stupefied that these idiots think superficial bullshit, mostly aimed at harassing women, is going to fix anything.

It's not the shit that chicks wear that is blowing people up. It's the shit that DUDES DO.

I see it as a different application of "Broken Window Theory," and the goal isn't to solve anything, because if the politics of the last several years hasn't indicated to anyone, then the cultural zeitgeist is also subject to Newton's third law. Any time I read one of these asinine acts being promulgated , be it bathrooms, or refusing to do something for someone else based on religious beliefs, in the US, or the burkini ban in France, and now this, the goal isn't to effect change. It's to be as militantly passive aggressive as possible without being called super hitler (they're addressing symptoms rather than the problem, otherwise they'd just ban people) making operating in an area, or interacting with people based on your way of life like wearing a horse hair shirt. Basically it tells the declared outgroup, in no uncertain terms, that if you come here, you aren't welcome, and it inherently holds the promise that there will be more new and unique ways to legislate against your way of life, without actually legislating against your way of life in absolute terms, so that tension you feel when we have a special place for you to go, or that we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, or that you have to sign a piece of paper saying you have to become one of us, never really goes away. The only novel thing here is that we're seeing Europe do it more often as a defensive measure, when prior to three years ago it was almost exclusively used by the religious right in the US of A. Wheres in Europe, it's been used, heavily handed at that, as an offensive measure over the last four or five years with the concept of wrong-think, so here we also see an escalation in the ethical arms race.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

I'm still pretty stupefied that these idiots think superficial bullshit, mostly aimed at harassing women, is going to fix anything.

It's not the shit that chicks wear that is blowing people up. It's the shit that DUDES DO.

Yeah I never liked burqa bans. While I find the practice intolerable, it's a pretty harmless religious expression. This ban is un-Constitutional by US standards but we all know Europe cares even less about human rights than the US by this point. You can argue the ban is to protect women but at its core it's rather authoritarian.

But don't pretend Islam women are totally guiltless. The current SJW darling is a woman who wants global Sharia law, and the San Bernardino guy was radicalized by his wife.

 

[Un Platano]

Is cutting welfare really the only way Austria has of getting to these people?

 

[AnOminous]

Oh but I thought Austria had "rejected" right-wing nationalism when they didn't elect Hofer? Guess all those voters didn't just magically vanish or slink away and still need appeasing.

OT seems pretty pointless and anti-freedom IMO but if the sentiment behind it is bringing attention to the many negative practices of Islam then I'll support it until it's not needed. We certainly wouldn't get anything like that in Blighty I'll tell you that for nowt.



So if we ban Halal meat as animal cruelty then they'll all starve?

You'd have to ban kosher, too. They're not terribly different. Most stuff that is halal is also kosher, with some exceptions generally related to sectarian and doctrinal intricacies.

That being said, I absolutely despise burkas and niqabs. They basically exist to reduce women to objects and create a wall of isolation around whoever wears them.

This. The entire practice is dehumanizing garbage, and frankly, I don't give a shit whether it has some "religious" excuse.

However, my problem is forcing people to do this. I know it's difficult in a literally PATRIARCHAL religious "culture," with every feminist implication that term entails, to tell where coercion ends and consent begins, but in a "culture" where honor killings exist, coercion is never absent.

I do support prohibiting face-covering garments in certain situations, such as taking photographs for government ID like driver's licenses. There are very important state interests in law enforcement being able to identify people. . .such as terrorists. And how about it? This particular culture seems to have a terrorism problem too.

I still don't view banning any particular kind of garment universally, solely based on its association with a religion, as being consistent with human rights, though. Even if it's a religion I detest.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

If you wanted to subjugate women you should have stayed in your third world shithole.

 

[Enclave Supremacy]

You'd have to ban kosher, too. They're not terribly different. Most stuff that is halal is also kosher, with some exceptions generally related to sectarian and doctrinal intricacies.

I wasn't actually being serious. The process of mass-producing meat from slaughters isn't glamorous what-ever way you slice it and businesses can pander to God-botherers of what-ever flavour if they want to.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I wasn't actually being serious. The process of mass-producing meat from slaughters isn't glamorous what-ever way you slice it and businesses can pander to God-botherers of what-ever flavour if they want to.

There's a pretty big difference between being instantaneously shot in the brain with a pneumatic nailgun and being hung upside down alive, having your throat slit, and being left to bleed out.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention they do it in full view of other animals waiting to be slaughtered. Farm animals may be dumb as shit but they know what it means when one of their own kind is screaming in agony.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

I still don't view banning any particular kind of garment universally, solely based on its association with a religion, as being consistent with human rights, though. Even if it's a religion I detest.

Islam as it exists now is mostly just a medieval death cult with practices rooted in political subjugation. It's literally an Anti-American religion in the sense its political component is 100% incompatible with the Constitution.

But that's where it should be combated. Islam is only going to get its shit together if you make it clear while Allah rules the next life man rules this one. And a religion where women are second-class citizens and any kind of degeneracy deserves corporal punishment has no place in civilized government. Banning common social practices which don't actively harm people achieves nothing and is overall just kind of scummy. Muslim women have it hard enough as it is. They don't need some Austrian pikeman in poofypants harassing them and charging them giant fines for wearing the garment their religion says they need.

 

[Cosmos]

This. The entire practice is dehumanizing garbage, and frankly, I don't give a shit whether it has some "religious" excuse.

From what I understand, face-covering is actually pretty controversial amongst Muslims. I'm pretty sure that women aren't allowed (or at least strongly discouraged) to cover their faces when they make the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). If they're not supposed to cover their faces when they're doing the most sacred ritual in Islam, why should they cover their faces everywhere else?

Also, I don't buy the "no one is FORCING them to cover their faces!" argument. It may be true that they're not being directly coerced, but the niqab is a very visible sign that someone's been exposed to fundamentalist/radical Islam. The women who "choose" to wear the niqab probably grew up being told that all women who show their hair and arms are filthy whores who will burn in hell forever.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

Also, I don't buy the "no one is FORCING them to cover their faces!" argument. It may be true that they're not being directly coerced, but the niqab is a very visible sign that someone's been exposed to fundamentalist/radical Islam.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous to pass laws which target and criminalize women for wearing them.

 

[AnOminous]

There's a pretty big difference between being instantaneously shot in the brain with a pneumatic nailgun and being hung upside down alive, having your throat slit, and being left to bleed out.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZE2svQFH_q0
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention they do it in full view of other animals waiting to be slaughtered. Farm animals may be dumb as shit but they know what it means when one of their own kind is screaming in agony.

Ever lived next to a slaughterhouse? They all scream if they live long enough to.

Unless you're some vegan fag, don't pretend whatever meat you eat dies in some scenic surrounding with soft music playing. It's all very painful death.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Ever lived next to a slaughterhouse? They all scream if they live long enough to.

Unless you're some vegan fag, don't pretend whatever meat you eat dies in some scenic surrounding with soft music playing. It's all very painful death.

How can you dispute that being shot in the head is quicker and less painful than bleeding out with your throat cut?

 

[BlueSpark]

It's the thought that counts, I guess, but I doubt either of these things will change the fact that Muslims' religion/cultures are inherently shitty and produce shitty people.

 

[Dysnomia]

Actually I heard that the thick black robes were used in the past to hide bombs. It is not a big deal, but at least its a start.

There was recently some guy in Abu Dhabi who donned a burqa to trick a boy into leaving a mosque with him. The boy was raped and murdered.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4580272/Man-dressed-burka-rape-kill-boy-Abu-Dhabi.html

If it happened in Abu Dhabi it can happen in the west too.

But I think that integration and language classes can be a good thing. i'm not a fan of forced reeducation. It's very Orwellian. However, in this case I think it's really for the best that these immigrants understand that they must learn to fit in with the local culture and that it doesn't work the other way around. That's already been proven time and time again. Something has to be done. If you want to live in the west then you must learn western ways.

 

[AnOminous]

How can you dispute that being shot in the head is quicker and less painful than bleeding out with your throat cut?

They're both very quick ways to die, as ways to die go.

Most ways humans die are extremely painful and go on for months or even years, with vastly diminishing quality of life along the way.

I recommend this book if you don't know how most humans die.

https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Die-Reflections-Chapter/dp/0679742441

It makes a slaughterhouse look humane.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous to pass laws which target and criminalize women for wearing them.

It's re-victimizing an already victimized population. It's really fucking disgusting to target female Muslims, who are already the subject of the worst Islamic abuses.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

It's re-victimizing an already victimized population. It's really fucking disgusting to target female Muslims, who are already the subject of the worst Islamic abuses.

"lol your husband made you wear that? too bad, here's a $300 dollar fine. maybe you shoulda thought of that before becoming a sand coon's broodwife."

 

[melty]

I wish they would just ban muslim men.

 

[Coldgrip]

I'm glad they're banning it. Anybody whining about the ban can go over there and protest on behalf of those poor, totally-not-willing-to-kill-you-for-being-a-degenerate-westerner, muslim women.