$ (Au, Ag, Pt) Precious Metals - Gold, Silver, and the Platinum family of metals

[Mr. Bung]

Fun Fact:
There are silver coins still in circulation if you know what to look for.
1964 and older for for the US.
1967/1968 and older for Canada.

In my experience they're pretty rare finds, I think the boomers have picked most all of that shit out of circulation by now. When I was working the register a few years ago I would come across silver dimes once in a blue moon along with war nickels etc. and exchange them. Ended up getting a nice little chunk of silver out of my time there.

An even quicker way I'd look for silver than checking the date was to check the color on the sides of a stack of dimes. If one of them was silver it would be lighter in color than the rest.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

In my experience they're pretty rare finds, I think the boomers have picked most all of that shit out of circulation by now. When I was working the register a few years ago I would come across silver dimes once in a blue moon along with war nickels etc. and exchange them. Ended up getting a nice little chunk of silver out of my time there.

An even quicker way I'd look for silver than checking the date was to check the color on the sides of a stack of dimes. If one of them was silver it would be lighter in color than the rest.

The only reason to work retail: Cash transactions.
I found countless wheat pennies, buffalo nickels, and mercury head dimes. Just buy them off the drawer when you are counting your drawer out at shift end.
With our current cashless economy, I think the prospects are dwindling. Plus there is a 'coin shortage' whatever the fuck that is...

One old boomer paid his bill with an envelope of PRISTINE silver certificates. I literally asked him (out of guilt) "Do you REALLY want to spend these?"
He got shitty with me, so I happily accepted the currency, and PROMPTLY bought all of it off my drawer.

 

[Krimjob]

Personally I got into a Silver ETF instead. It already had gains before the market trends right now, so seems like a good choice. Didn't have much though as I invested in a few others too, as well as saving up for some company stocks too, as I found three highly undervalued companies I want in on.

So does anyone have any good intel on Silver? I mean, I get the gist of it. It's just that every analysis I find on it is either way too fucking optimistic ("omg 300 USD within a year BRUUUUH" but in daytrader speak) or they focus on the trends for the past 24 hours, which tells me nothing. Like, an article or anything.

 

[knobslobbin]

My experience with buying and selling precious metals:

Have been buying gold and silver 1oz coins for years. For gold either American Gold Eagles or Canadian Gold Leaf, whichever I can get a better deal on. This type of gold or silver coin is also called bullion. When you call a local precious metals coin dealer to ask about prices saying bullion will differentiate from the collectible/rare coins that I'm not interested in. Sometimes online stores will give you a better deal and mail you the metal, always shop around.

The way prices work is they charge a fee or commission over spot when you buy, and sell to you under spot when you sell. I usually wait until I can buy enough at once to get a better rate (20oz silver, 10oz gold has been my experience for getting them to lower the rate). Most of my purchases cost 1%, meaning I had to buy the metal for spot price + 1%. Same for selling, that means when I sold the same coin they buy it 1% under spot. Expect fees in the 1-4% range,if they are past that you are getting porked. Keep track of fees, if you buy smaller amounts and paid 4% on each end, then you have to wait a lot longer to realize any gains. When you are talking to them on the phone and saving yourself the trip make sure to ask what their fee is, and make sure you both agree on what the current spot price is.

Taxes: You pay capital gains taxes or realize losses on the difference in price from when you bought vs sold. Say I bought a single 1oz coin for $1000 and sold it for $1500 2 years later. The taxes due are the capital gains rate on $500 in profit, for longterm (>1yr) holding the rate is based on income but assume 15% would make the taxes due $75 (you have to figure it out based on your income that year and what state you live in, FU CA). You have to volunteer the fact that you made this money and pay these taxes yourself, it isn't done for you like with W-2 income.

It is my understanding that coinshops must report transactions over $10k to the IRS. Likely all transactions are reported but they only monitor the bigger ones. Do with that info what you will. I have also had some luck bartering with coins.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

My experience with buying and selling precious metals:

Have been buying gold and silver 1oz coins for years. For gold either American Gold Eagles or Canadian Gold Leaf, whichever I can get a better deal on. This type of gold or silver coin is also called bullion. When you call a local precious metals coin dealer to ask about prices saying bullion will differentiate from the collectible/rare coins that I'm not interested in. Sometimes online stores will give you a better deal and mail you the metal, always shop around.

The way prices work is they charge a fee or commission over spot when you buy, and sell to you under spot when you sell. I usually wait until I can buy enough at once to get a better rate (20oz silver, 10oz gold has been my experience for getting them to lower the rate). Most of my purchases cost 1%, meaning I had to buy the metal for spot price + 1%. Same for selling, that means when I sold the same coin they buy it 1% under spot. Expect fees in the 1-4% range,if they are past that you are getting porked. Keep track of fees, if you buy smaller amounts and paid 4% on each end, then you have to wait a lot longer to realize any gains. When you are talking to them on the phone and saving yourself the trip make sure to ask what their fee is, and make sure you both agree on what the current spot price is.

Taxes: You pay capital gains taxes or realize losses on the difference in price from when you bought vs sold. Say I bought a single 1oz coin for $1000 and sold it for $1500 2 years later. The taxes due are the capital gains rate on $500 in profit, for longterm (>1yr) holding the rate is based on income but assume 15% would make the taxes due $75 (you have to figure it out based on your income that year and what state you live in, FU CA). You have to volunteer the fact that you made this money and pay these taxes yourself, it isn't done for you like with W-2 income.

It is my understanding that coinshops must report transactions over $10k to the IRS. Likely all transactions are reported but they only monitor the bigger ones. Do with that info what you will. I have also had some luck bartering with coins.

Could you say a little more about where you're getting those kind of prices? I'm admittedly very new to precious metals, but so far I haven't seen anything close to the deals you're describing. The online dealers and local pawn shops I've checked are WAAAAAAAAAAY more than 5% markup. Not calling you a liar or anything, but if there are better prices around than what I've seen, I'd like to get in on it.

 

[AnOminous]

What about rhodium? This is a weird one.

 

[knobslobbin]

Could you say a little more about where you're getting those kind of prices? I'm admittedly very new to precious metals, but so far I haven't seen anything close to the deals you're describing. The online dealers and local pawn shops I've checked are WAAAAAAAAAAY more than 5% markup. Not calling you a liar or anything, but if there are better prices around than what I've seen, I'd like to get in on it.

Those are the prices I got for the amounts I was buying/selling and after shopping around a lot. 3-4% isn't hard to find, 5+ you're getting screwed or aren't trying. This is for bullion, not numismatics. For example this place (SD Bullion) has a special running for any amount for 3.6% over spot, and if you are purchasing 20-50 oz (I ordered in this range with them a few years ago) they will quote you a price much lower. You are correct, you can't buy a half ounce of gold and only pay 1%. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my original post.

The local place here in Alaska I use will quote you 2% or 3% normally, but when I called and asked how much if I sold 10oz he lowered it to 1%. We'll see if he gives me the same deal when I sell another batch in a few months.

edit: forgot to mention some coins are cheaper than others. I've never found American Eagles for under under 3% even with a bulk discount. I usually buy what's on sale, have had good luck with perth mint, canadian, or suisse. Can't be picky when in the 1-2% range.

edit2: The market matters too! I was buying in a buyer's market, and selling in a seller's market so that helped push me towards the low end of fees. good example with the current demand for buying silver exceeding supple expect low fees for selling silver and insane fees for buying it. If you are never against the trend you're probably never making money

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Those are the prices I got for the amounts I was buying/selling and after shopping around a lot. 3-4% isn't hard to find, 5+ you're getting screwed or aren't trying. This is for bullion, not numismatics. For example this place (SD Bullion) has a special running for any amount for 3.6% over spot, and if you are purchasing 20-50 oz (I ordered in this range with them a few years ago) they will quote you a price much lower. You are correct, you can't buy a half ounce of gold and only pay 1%. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my original post.

The local place here in Alaska I use will quote you 2% or 3% normally, but when I called and asked how much if I sold 10oz he lowered it to 1%. We'll see if he gives me the same deal when I sell another batch in a few months.

edit: forgot to mention some coins are cheaper than others. I've never found American Eagles for under under 3% even with a bulk discount. I usually buy what's on sale, have had good luck with perth mint, canadian, or suisse. Can't be picky when in the 1-2% range.

Okay, so you're talking about looking for sales and specials. That makes more sense. I guess I just need to look around more.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

What about rhodium? This is a weird one.

Are you serious?
I always have wondered about collecting rare/exotic metals. Like Indium. I doubt there is a liquid market for it, though. Prices may be high - but I bet the spread is as well...
Everyone wants gold and silver, though...

 

[AnOminous]

Are you serious?

About the question? Yes, I'm curious if anyone knows anything about it. About actually "investing" in it? Not really, it seems insane, a weird asset that fluctuates as ridiculously as Bitcoin and way out of my price range anyway.

 

[Coleslaw]

The only reason to work retail: Cash transactions.
I found countless wheat pennies, buffalo nickels, and mercury head dimes. Just buy them off the drawer when you are counting your drawer out at shift end.
With our current cashless economy, I think the prospects are dwindling. Plus there is a 'coin shortage' whatever the fuck that is...

One old boomer paid his bill with an envelope of PRISTINE silver certificates. I literally asked him (out of guilt) "Do you REALLY want to spend these?"
He got shitty with me, so I happily accepted the currency, and PROMPTLY bought all of it off my drawer.

Haven't silver certificates been scrap paper since 1968?

 

[AnOminous]

Haven't silver certificates been scrap paper since 1968?

They're worth slightly over face value, which is considerably less than their constant dollar value that they would originally have had. They were supposed to be retired and destroyed, but enough of them remain that most of them aren't particularly rare. They're not worthless, though.

 

[Coleslaw]

They're worth slightly over face value, which is considerably less than their constant dollar value that they would originally have had. They were supposed to be retired and destroyed, but enough of them remain that most of them aren't particularly rare. They're not worthless, though.

Was the Coinage Act of 1965 a mistake?

 

[AnOminous]

Was the Coinage Act of 1965 a mistake?

I'm not sure. I kind of like my coins. It turned them into nearly pure fiat currency though. Arguably that was a bad thing, but all the precious metals have actual uses other than just being coins.

 

[Coleslaw]

I'm not sure. I kind of like my coins. It turned them into nearly pure fiat currency though. Arguably that was a bad thing, but all the precious metals have actual uses other than just being coins.

Most people don't understand the true nature of fiat "money".

 

[AnOminous]

Most people don't understand the true nature of fiat "money".

It's worth what the government backing it is worth. The full faith and credit of the United States is the most valuable currency in the world, even today.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

It's worth what the government backing it is worth. The full faith and credit of the United States is the most valuable currency in the world, even today.

...For now
Well, the US bond rating is kinda that too. Not an economist, I believe both are related.

The chain has untold strength until there are no more links.

But ultimately the value is in the generalized eye of the beholders. Gold had zero value until humans had a daily excess of food and water. That's why my investment metal of choice is lead. Proper application of lead yields all items.

I have an interesting theory about currencies in general. It's not complete, so bear with me.
Currencies represent stored energy. In the west, gold represented (originally) stored manpower (mining) and heat energy (smelting). All energy comes from the sun, so an ounce of gold represented the combined value of the calories that humans consumed to mine/transport it, and the calories required to smelt it. Originally gold can be thought of as sun dollars. I think the alchemists kinda knew this as well.

When we are talking Fiat currencies - all bets are off. It's purely credit and faith. Slave currencies.

 

[(((Obar Lazcano Kamz)))]

...For now
Well, the US bond rating is kinda that too. Not an economist, I believe both are related.

The chain has untold strength until there are no more links.

But ultimately the value is in the generalized eye of the beholders. Gold had zero value until humans had a daily excess of food and water. That's why my investment metal of choice is lead. Proper application of lead yields all items.

I have an interesting theory about currencies in general. It's not complete, so bear with me.
Currencies represent stored energy. In the west, gold represented (originally) stored manpower (mining) and heat energy (smelting). All energy comes from the sun, so an ounce of gold represented the combined value of the calories that humans consumed to mine/transport it, and the calories required to smelt it. Originally gold can be thought of as sun dollars. I think the alchemists kinda knew this as well.

When we are talking Fiat currencies - all bets are off. It's purely credit and faith. Slave currencies.

how do you store your lead?

 

[AnOminous]

When we are talking Fiat currencies - all bets are off. It's purely credit and faith. Slave currencies.

Precious metal currencies may be backed by gold and silver, but full faith and credit is backed by lead.

how do you store your lead?

In the bodies of anyone getting in the way of your full faith and credit.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

how do you store your lead?

Right now - in 5.56 and 9mm cartridges.

Precious metal currencies may be backed by gold and silver, but full faith and credit is backed by lead.



In the bodies of anyone getting in the way of your full faith and credit.

I like that concept. It's not a 'debt-based currency' , it's a 'violence-backed currency' !