Apple Thread - The most overrated technology brand?

[Gar For Archer]

The real faggot is you for shitting up a thread with some rando over something no one gives a shit about.



Oh god damn it
Why can't there be any Android tablets that are at least comparable to iPads? The ones I've used in the past sucked in one way or another.

To understand why the iPad has no serious competitors, you have to understand why it was successful in the first place, despite starting off as literally just an iPod Touch with a huge screen, and mostly staying that way until 2015: excellent app support, a direct result of Apple providing developers with resources well beforehand and heavily incentivized them to make iPad versions of their apps, so that the iPad would launch with a sizable collection of tablet-specific apps that took advantage of the much larger screen.

Google also made tablets back in the day - the Nexus 7 was an affordable and reasonably popular device, and Google even made a tablet-specific OS (Honeycomb) with an optimized interface. The problem though? They didn’t bother to provide devs with adequate resources to create tablet apps, and didn’t even bother making tablet-specific versions of their own first-party apps at launch.

Basically, Google didn’t really give developers any incentive to create tablet apps, which in turn meant that users had no real incentive to get an Android tablet, which just created a vicious cycle leading to a rapidly dwindling user base that was never all that big to begin with.

Another factor was the lack of a proper flagship. Android Honeycomb (the tablet-dedicated OS) launched with the Motorola Xoom and was really the first big showing for Android tablets as a whole, but the $700 price tag basically guaranteed its demise, with it moving only 100,000 units in its first six weeks (versus the iPad’s 300,000 units on opening day). By the time Google came out with their own much more affordable first-party tablets (the Nexus 7 and 10 which were made by Asus and Samsung respectively), they had already screwed up that first impression.

Tl;dr, Google shit the bed by not providing developers with adequate resources to create tablet versions of their apps, and didn’t even bother making tablet versions of their own apps. This also wasn’t helped by the lack of a competitively-priced competitor at launch.

Google needed to have launched the OS alongside the affordable and powerful Nexus 7 and 10, while also heavily incentivizing developers to create tablet apps (and leading by example by making tablet versions of their own first-party applications) to ensure a decent library of tablet apps to build a user base around. Their failure to do so is purely a result of their own laziness and incompetence, because if they literally just copied everything Apple did with the launch of the iPad, they would’ve gotten Android tablets off on much better footing instead of hobbling them right out the gate.

——————

On another note, the Microsoft Surface also isn’t really a direct competitor to the iPad. The Surface is a laptop first and foremost, but can be used as a mobile device should the need arise. The iPad on the other hand is a mobile device through-and-through, but can substitute some of the functionality of a laptop in a pinch when the flexibility offered by a full desktop OS isn’t required. They’re both solid devices but have subtly yet fundamentally different use cases; the Surface is primarily a laptop, whereas the iPad is primarily a mobile device.

 

[byuu]

To understand why the iPad has no serious competitors, you have to understand why it was successful in the first place, despite starting off as literally just an iPod Touch with a huge screen, and mostly staying that way until 2015: excellent app support, a direct result of Apple providing developers with resources well beforehand and heavily incentivized them to make iPad versions of their apps, so that the iPad would launch with a sizable collection of tablet-specific apps that took advantage of the much larger screen.

Didn't the iPad launch with a ton of upscaled iPhone apps?

Do tablets even have any kind of "killer app" that makes them worth it? I figured people mostly just browsed the web with it.

 

[Never Scored]

To understand why the iPad has no serious competitors, you have to understand why it was successful in the first place, despite starting off as literally just an iPod Touch with a huge screen, and mostly staying that way until 2015: excellent app support, a direct result of Apple providing developers with resources well beforehand and heavily incentivized them to make iPad versions of their apps, so that the iPad would launch with a sizable collection of tablet-specific apps that took advantage of the much larger screen.

Google also made tablets back in the day - the Nexus 7 was an affordable and reasonably popular device, and Google even made a tablet-specific OS (Honeycomb) with an optimized interface. The problem though? They didn’t bother to provide devs with adequate resources to create tablet apps, and didn’t even bother making tablet-specific versions of their own first-party apps at launch.

Basically, Google didn’t really give developers any incentive to create tablet apps, which in turn meant that users had no real incentive to get an Android tablet, which just created a vicious cycle leading to a rapidly dwindling user base that was never all that big to begin with.

Another factor was the lack of a proper flagship. Android Honeycomb (the tablet-dedicated OS) launched with the Motorola Xoom and was really the first big showing for Android tablets as a whole, but the $700 price tag basically guaranteed its demise, with it moving only 100,000 units in its first six weeks (versus the iPad’s 300,000 units on opening day). By the time Google came out with their own much more affordable first-party tablets (the Nexus 7 and 10 which were made by Asus and Samsung respectively), they had already screwed up that first impression.

Tl;dr, Google shit the bed by not providing developers with adequate resources to create tablet versions of their apps, and didn’t even bother making tablet versions of their own apps. This also wasn’t helped by the lack of a competitively-priced competitor at launch.

Google needed to have launched the OS alongside the affordable and powerful Nexus 7 and 10, while also heavily incentivizing developers to create tablet apps (and leading by example by making tablet versions of their own first-party applications) to ensure a decent library of tablet apps to build a user base around. Their failure to do so is purely a result of their own laziness and incompetence, because if they literally just copied everything Apple did with the launch of the iPad, they would’ve gotten Android tablets off on much better footing instead of hobbling them right out the gate.

——————

On another note, the Microsoft Surface also isn’t really a direct competitor to the iPad. The Surface is a laptop first and foremost, but can be used as a mobile device should the need arise. The iPad on the other hand is a mobile device through-and-through, but can substitute some of the functionality of a laptop in a pinch when the flexibility offered by a full desktop OS isn’t required. They’re both solid devices but have subtly yet fundamentally different use cases; the Surface is primarily a laptop, whereas the iPad is primarily a mobile device.

TBH even the ipad, the most successful tablet by far, makes up a tiny fraction of Apple's revenue, I think 8%. That's behind phones, services, computers and wearables. Tablets are kind of a niche product. The only people I know personally that use them are boomers and schools. Everyone else just seems content with using their phone and users that need more just get a Mac or Windows PC. With how tiny notebooks have gotten and how fast they are to wake up with SSDs, it's not like carrying one around is this gigantic pain in the ass that tablets need to address.

I still think Apple is going to roll the iPad and Macbook into a single line at some point to save on R&D and the ipad pro is going to morph into the consumer Macbook. Apple has explicitly denied that they're going to do this, which makes me think they're going to do it even more.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Didn't the iPad launch with a ton of upscaled iPhone apps?

Do tablets even have any kind of "killer app" that makes them worth it? I figured people mostly just browsed the web with it.

No, even at launch the iPad’s apps were optimized to take advantage of the large screen. And as mentioned, Apple made sure that third-party developers also made apps that were optimized for iPad.

Tablets are, first and foremost, devices for content consumption, be it browsing the web, watching videos, reading, etc. Tablets don’t need a “killer app”, they just have to be better at content consumption than phones and laptops - which they were, even in the first generation, by virtue of apps making proper use of the screen space while being more portable and easier to use around the house than a laptop.

Nowadays, aside from media consumption, the iPad has sort of settled into two major use cases where it excels over laptops: amateur art, and note-taking (both making use of the Apple Pencil).

For an amateur artist, the iPad is simply unrivaled. It’s much more intuitive and convenient than using a graphics tablet on your computer (since you can draw on the couch or in bed, and can actually see what you’re drawing under your pen) and the popular apps have like 95% of the capabilities of their desktop counterparts. Clip Studio, one of the most popular desktop drawing apps, even has an iPad version that AFAIK is 1:1 identical to the desktop version.

For note-taking, I’ve found it’s WAY easier to keep things organized. I didn’t use an iPad for college, but I had bought one after I graduated for drawing. I used it for note-taking when I went back for my Master’s and it’s helped me significantly. Being able to keep everything digitally in one place, and being able to easily edit notes (reorganizing/restructuring after the fact, changing colors, adding in lines that you missed without having to squeeze it into the margins) give it some massive benefits over paper-and-pencil.

TBH even the ipad, the most successful tablet by far, makes up a tiny fraction of Apple's revenue, I think 8%. That's behind phones, services, computers and wearables. Tablets are kind of a niche product. The only people I know personally that use them are boomers and schools. Everyone else just seems content with using their phone and users that need more just get a Mac or Windows PC. With how tiny notebooks have gotten and how fast they are to wake up with SSDs, it's not like carrying one around is this gigantic pain in the ass that tablets need to address.

I still think Apple is going to roll the iPad and Macbook into a single line at some point to save on R&D and the ipad pro is going to morph into the consumer Macbook. Apple has explicitly denied that they're going to do this, which makes me think they're going to do it even more.

8% sounds like not a lot… but that’s only because the iPhone accounts for more than 50% of Apple’s revenue. Mac and “Wearables” (I assume AirPods + Watch) also account for “just” 9% each - ahead of iPads, sure, but hardly dwarfing them. I also don’t think tablets and laptops have as much crossover as you might imagine. The target audience for an iPad Pro (11” starting at $800, plus $300 for a keyboard which is required if you are looking to get anything close to a laptop experience) is absolutely not the same as the audience for an entry-level MacBook (starting at $1000 all-inclusive). I absolutely believe them when they say they have no plans of merging the iPad and Mac lines, because it simply doesn’t make any sense from a business perspective. However, I do think iPads will be seeing major reorganization in the future to distinguish the budget iPads from the higher-powered Air/Pro devices.

Currently, the iPad Air and iPad Pro 11” are nearly identical, with the only real difference being the processor and the camera (and, of course, a $200 difference in cost for little tangible benefit). What may happen is that the 11” Pro will be axed and replaced by the Air, whereas the 12.9” with the M1 will gain the ability to run MacOS apps in some capacity, finally resulting in an iPad that can 98% replace a laptop (but distinctly NOT being a direct competitor to the base $1000 MacBook Air).

 

[Least Concern]

No, even at launch the iPad’s apps were optimized to take advantage of the large screen. And as mentioned, Apple made sure that third-party developers also made apps that were optimized for iPad.

Some, sure, but not all. I got an iPad 1 for my mom and there were a lot of third-party apps which weren't optimized for the iPad at first, and you had to either use them in a little tiny window in the center of the screen or scaled up to full-screen but blurry.

I absolutely believe them when they say they have no plans of merging the iPad and Mac lines, because it simply doesn’t make any sense from a business perspective.

In some of their more "lol screw power users" moments of the recent past it really did look like it was heading in that direction, though. There was recently that push to adapt the iOS UI frameworks to macOS which was launched and then apparently never discussed again - I can't remember what project name they used for it but I remember them making a big deal of it at the time. But the pendulum is currently on the pro-power-user side and power users don't want to try to get work done with iOS's UI and limitations, so for now I feel macOS's future is somewhat safe. We can't be complacent if Apple starts getting whimsical about iOS everything again, though.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Some, sure, but not all. I got an iPad 1 for my mom and there were a lot of third-party apps which weren't optimized for the iPad at first, and you had to either use them in a little tiny window in the center of the screen or scaled up to full-screen but blurry.
In some of their more "lol screw power users" moments of the recent past it really did look like it was heading in that direction, though. There was recently that push to adapt the iOS UI frameworks to macOS which was launched and then apparently never discussed again - I can't remember what project name they used for it but I remember them making a big deal of it at the time. But the pendulum is currently on the pro-power-user side and power users don't want to try to get work done with iOS's UI and limitations, so for now I feel macOS's future is somewhat safe. We can't be complacent if Apple starts getting whimsical about iOS everything again, though.

Oh yeah, absolutely “most” third-party apps took a while to get updated. But a lot of the big ones that a lot of people used DID have support right out the gate.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple tries to bring iOS and MacOS closer and closer together, but the current trends just don’t suggest any sort of grand unifying “AppleOS” as the end goal. They even split off iPadOS into its own thing, I don’t think they’re aiming for full feature parity across their line. I don’t think even current-year Apple is retarded enough to gimp their computers with a mobile-level OS. I think any “unification” will be aimed toward built-in cross-compatibility of applications between platforms, so you would be able to run iPhone apps on Mac, and Mac apps on certain iPads.

 

[Toolbox]

They really got their shit together for the Note series after the entire Note 7 line were literal ticking time bombs. Who knows if that's still the case with the newest ones, but the Note 8 and 9s were pretty good.

Their phones before the 7 were the peak of their line I'd argue. Having a replaceable battery and easily swappable sim/micro sd on what was then a high end smartphone is something that tech companies still don't want again because it makes the phone last way damn longer than they want it to. Not the note line, but the s5 was watertight to a degree yet still allowed the replacement of it's battery pretty simply. For that I don't get how anyone argues that having water resistance and easy user servicing as a you can't have both situation. On the durability note, yeah the series after 7 are technically more durable than previous models in some ways, but then they have every device with a glass back and it just stabs them in the heel. On the software side I've seen forum posts saying camera quality somehow degrades over time, though this might be related to the chipset of certain models. I can say the note 4 seems to experience this in some form. Another thing that it experiences that I haven't seen yet for newer models is a complete failure after a couple years for seemingly no real reason, but eventually was found out to be one of the chips actually ungluing itself from the motherboard just because of stress.

On the 'productivity' side, the note series has gained more features relating to the pen and that itself has gotten upgrades - but the removal of the headphone jack post 9 even after making fun of Apple for having done so is pathetic. They've done this same marketing scheme repeatedly and then they end up doing exactly what Apple does. Going back to software, they force features like sharing calendar data between several accounts if you link your email, which is a massive pain, and there is seemingly no way to block this on their side unless you just use a dummy account so it's not a problem to begin with. That's one of Samsung's major faults, that they've slowly become a worse Apple in some ways by restricting your choice of features is strange and incredibly annoying ways. Both on the hardware and the software side.

 

[Leslie Nielsen]

They really got their shit together for the Note series after the entire Note 7 line were literal ticking time bombs. Who knows if that's still the case with the newest ones, but the Note 8 and 9s were pretty good.

I can't speak for their flagship hones, but I've been running an A series for a while and do far I haven't had any problems with it. I have to have a phone with a headphone jack because it seems like the second I touch bluetooth headphones they turn to shit, and I've never found any that don't have that low end buzzing.

 

[ellroy]

For Christmas, I received a 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chipset to replace my 2015 13" MacBook Pro and I figured I could share my thoughts after being critical during the reveal. Just a little background, it's the standard processor with only 16 graphics cores since I will be using this for coding for my graduate program when I'm away from my home, it has 32 GB of RAM, and a 1 TB SSD.

Hardware wise, the MacBook feels like an improvement. The keyboard is better than the butterfly keyboards I tried in the past but feels a little off from my 2015 MacBook. It has a hollow feeling when I type, not like its disconcerting just the response isn't the best. I do use a Ducky mechanical keyboard for my desktop so I'm wondering if I'm subconsciously comparing the two. Concerning the chipset, I really like the M1 chip. It runs cool so my MacBook doesn't heat up like my old intel Mac does and uses less RAM when I have multiple browser windows open. I don't feel bad for not having the M1 Max because I will rarely do any graphics heavy operations, I just intend to compile code. The display is another improvement, my complaint with the older models were the retina displays never had enough pixels so the application windows never scaled correctly and took too much space. The feet don't stick out like they look like they do

Software wise, macOS definitely feels snappier on newer hardware. For example XCode runs notoriously slow on my Intel Mac but runs remarkably faster on M1. I did notice the software package installers for the M1 architecture won't query me for an install location like they do for my intel Mac, that's a little worrying, I dislike having that control taken away from me. I just hope Apple will have a longer lifecycle supporting their M1 machines but wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.

I'm fairly impressed with the machine though the price tag is steep (and I didn't have to pay for it), I really do like this machine and would recommend the newer M1 line if people are interested in still using Macs on a new processor.

Before I eat shit for using a Mac as a mobile computer, I would prefer to use Linux on a laptop, the problem is I can't find a laptop brand that I like that offers better value than Apple. I used to prefer ThinkPads but I don't trust Lenovo anymore due the CCP connections and their special firmware. I have used HP laptops at work for at least 11 years and the quality has only gone downhill. I still think Dell is alright, although I haven't touched one since 2015. Vaio doesn't have customization and maxes out at 16 GB of RAM. As I mentioned before, I'm in grad school part time, there is something comforting about having a machine that will be very reliable on the eve of major due date and sometimes Linux just doesn't offer that peace of mind as a desktop system.

 

[Least Concern]

I did notice the software package installers for the M1 architecture won't query me for an install location like they do for my intel Mac, that's a little worrying, I dislike having that control taken away from me.

Installers are generally only used for drivers and other stuff with files that have to go on a very specific location or else they won't do anything. Normal applications don't use installers; just disk images. Thus I can't recall installers prompting me for a location either unless it was some sort of old or non-Mac-native thing. Are you sure you're not misremembering?

In other news, I discovered UTM the other day. It's basically a friendly GUI wrapper to qemu with a few M1-specific tweaks, and will virtualize ARM64 at full speed - hooray, VMs again! - as well as emulate x86-64 and other processors. I've just done some initial fiddling with it so far, and while the UX isn't the most friendly thing in the world, it seems to work pretty well. This weekend I'm going to see if I can get a Windows 10 machine emulated at a decent-enough speed so that I can test web pages in Windows right from my desk again. Emulating Windows to slowly test web pages… it'll be like the PowerPC days all over again. I recommend giving it a look if you have an M1 and want to fiddle with VMs.

 

[ellroy]

Installers are generally only used for drivers and other stuff with files that have to go on a very specific location or else they won't do anything. Normal applications don't use installers; just disk images. Thus I can't recall installers prompting me for a location either unless it was some sort of old or non-Mac-native thing. Are you sure you're not misremembering?

In other news, I discovered UTM the other day. It's basically a friendly GUI wrapper to qemu with a few M1-specific tweaks, and will virtualize ARM64 at full speed - hooray, VMs again! - as well as emulate x86-64 and other processors. I've just done some initial fiddling with it so far, and while the UX isn't the most friendly thing in the world, it seems to work pretty well. This weekend I'm going to see if I can get a Windows 10 machine emulated at a decent-enough speed so that I can test web pages in Windows right from my desk again. Emulating Windows to slowly test web pages… it'll be like the PowerPC days all over again. I recommend giving it a look if you have an M1 and want to fiddle with VMs.

I’m not talking drivers. I’m talking about software like Oracle JDK or LaTeX. Just general software packages.

 

[Least Concern]

I’m not talking drivers. I’m talking about software like Oracle JDK or LaTeX. Just general software packages.

FWIW, a non-Oracle but M1-native build of the JDK is available here. I only use it for playing Autistic Cube Game but it certainly works much better for that.

At any rate, I'd expect both of those to be installing libraries in certain particular places - neither of those are just straight-up applications.

 

[Least Concern]

Apple's Most Questionable Design Decisions in Recent Memory (a)

1. Magic Mouse 2 with charging port on the underside
2. Apple TV Siri remote
3. Apple Pencil 1 which charged by sticking straight out of an iPad's charging port
4. AirPods Max Smart Case that looks like a cross between a bra and a handbag
5. Butterfly keyboard on laptops
6. Trash can Mac Pro, of course

The butterfly keyboard never really bothered me, but gunk did tend to collect under the key caps and the whole thing seemed a bit over-engineered.

I'd add the Touch Bar to the list for sure. Something that probably seemed like a good idea on paper and made for some cool photographs but greatly reduced the usability of the keyboard for the pro users the MBPs are ostensibly targeted for.

 

[Joe Swanson]

The butterfly keyboard never really bothered me, but gunk did tend to collect under the key caps and the whole thing seemed a bit over-engineered.

The butterfly keyboard was only a problem because it failed often and couldn't easily be replaced by the end user

 

[F_Break]

Apple's Most Questionable Design Decisions in Recent Memory (a)

1. Magic Mouse 2 with charging port on the underside
2. Apple TV Siri remote
3. Apple Pencil 1 which charged by sticking straight out of an iPad's charging port
4. AirPods Max Smart Case that looks like a cross between a bra and a handbag
5. Butterfly keyboard on laptops
6. Trash can Mac Pro, of course

The butterfly keyboard never really bothered me, but gunk did tend to collect under the key caps and the whole thing seemed a bit over-engineered.

I'd add the Touch Bar to the list for sure. Something that probably seemed like a good idea on paper and made for some cool photographs but greatly reduced the usability of the keyboard for the pro users the MBPs are ostensibly targeted for.

That Apple TV Siri remote is a fucking abomination. Let's make the most unergonomic slab possible, cover it in a thin sheet of glass, and replace all of the navigation buttons with touch controls less accurate than a Parkinson's patient wielding a wiimote.

 

[AnOminous]

I'd add the Touch Bar to the list for sure. Something that probably seemed like a good idea on paper and made for some cool photographs but greatly reduced the usability of the keyboard for the pro users the MBPs are ostensibly targeted for.

Thanks for breaking emacs you cunts.

Also I have two of the original Magic Mouse and a replacement. It was a great design and I don't know why they'd fuck with it that way.

 

[DoubleD]

Expectation:

Reality:

 

[Pissmaster]

Apple's Most Questionable Design Decisions in Recent Memory (a)

1. Magic Mouse 2 with charging port on the underside
2. Apple TV Siri remote
3. Apple Pencil 1 which charged by sticking straight out of an iPad's charging port
4. AirPods Max Smart Case that looks like a cross between a bra and a handbag
5. Butterfly keyboard on laptops
6. Trash can Mac Pro, of course

The butterfly keyboard never really bothered me, but gunk did tend to collect under the key caps and the whole thing seemed a bit over-engineered.

I'd add the Touch Bar to the list for sure. Something that probably seemed like a good idea on paper and made for some cool photographs but greatly reduced the usability of the keyboard for the pro users the MBPs are ostensibly targeted for.

the Apple Pencil charging out of the iPad's charging port made my mom make the only penis joke I've ever heard her make in my entire life

 

[Gar For Archer]

The Apple Pencil 1 sticking out of the charging port was way overblown (I think you only need to keep it plugged in for 30 seconds to recharge an hour's worth of juice?) but it was nonetheless a hilarious design decision totally unbefitting of Apple.

The Apple Pencil 2 magnetically storing and charging on the side of the iPad is obviously much superior.

 

[Mister Qwerty]