Apple Thread - The most overrated technology brand?

[Joe Swanson]

Anyone who thinks USB-A is dead is out of their mind.

Not dead, but the industry is actively trying to phase it out for USB-C without much success with Apple being the only company balsy enough to make it the only port on their computers

 

[DoubleD]

And again when they removed the CD drive from iMacs and MBP's.

That being said, I don't think normal USB (what is it, A? B?) is dead in the water yet, and while it's fine for the entry level Macbook to forgo it, there's no excuse to leave it off a supposed "Pro" device.

Not dead, but the industry is actively trying to phase it out for USB-C without much success with Apple being the only company balsy enough to make it the only port on their computers

The mainstream tech press really ought to have egg on their faces for the way they reported this back in 2016 (a date coming up for 5 years ago). Seemingly everyone who covered the 2016 Macbook Pros said that the lack of ports was only a temporary inconcenience, and that it should take maybe 1 or 2 years (one guy even said 6 months) for everyone to swap out their peripherals for USB-C ones.

Charitably, I could say they were referring specifically to users of those computers, but they downplay entirely how difficult it is to be individually committed USB-C while the rest of the world still uses USB-A. Like when someone hands you a flash drive, or God forbid, when your favourite accessories don't have a removable cord. And that's without even getting into the ubiquity of USB-A charging ports on public transport, built into the walls of people's homes, on the back of TVs, etc. My parents have a new-ish speaker system with a USB-A charging port for phones.

Even if every PC maker had switched to USB-C within the year, USB-A would not have meaningfully died until the majority of machines that lack the new port are taken out of service. So, five years at a bare minimum. But more likely 10. Quite possibly 15 at the rate things are currently going.

 

[Pissmaster]

Did anybody else update to iOS 15, and their iPhone is not automatically connecting to known wifi networks anymore? I can’t find anything about this online.

My dad told me he was having that problem with his iPad 7 right after he updated, and yeah, I couldn’t find anything on it either.

The mainstream tech press really ought to have egg on their faces for the way they reported this back in 2016 (a date coming up for 5 years ago). Seemingly everyone who covered the 2016 Macbook Pros said that the lack of ports was only a temporary inconcenience, and that it should take maybe 1 or 2 years (one guy even said 6 months) for everyone to swap out their peripherals for USB-C ones.

Charitably, I could say they were referring specifically to users of those computers, but they downplay entirely how difficult it is to be individually committed USB-C while the rest of the world still uses USB-A. Like when someone hands you a flash drive, or God forbid, when your favourite accessories don't have a removable cord. And that's without even getting into the ubiquity of USB-A charging ports on public transport, built into the walls of people's homes, on the back of TVs, etc. My parents have a new-ish speaker system with a USB-A charging port for phones.

Even if every PC maker had switched to USB-C within the year, USB-A would not have meaningfully died until the majority of machines that lack the new port are taken out of service. So, five years at a bare minimum. But more likely 10. Quite possibly 15 at the rate things are currently going.

I just bought a brand new motherboard with an AM4 socket, and a new mid tower computer case.

Total number of USB-C ports between the two:
ONE

Total number of USB-A ports between the two:
THIRTEEN

The sole USB-C port is on the back. The case has two USB-A 3.xs on the front. I also didn’t get el cheapo components either, this is just where things are right now. Five years is pretty old as far as Macbooks go, so, they released a goofy computer that was a slave to adapters its entire useful life, and by the time USB-C becomes more ubiquitous than USB-A, it’ll be laughably obsolete.

 

[AnOminous]

Even if every PC maker had switched to USB-C within the year, USB-A would not have meaningfully died until the majority of machines that lack the new port are taken out of service. So, five years at a bare minimum. But more likely 10. Quite possibly 15 at the rate things are currently going.

Apple is trying to recreate the shit where Steve Jobs would personally decide something was dead and stop including it. The problem is they're too dumb to know what is actually dead. Floppies weren't really completely dead when Jobs decided to stop including them, but were dead enough they might as well have been. Pretty much everyone else followed suit shortly thereafter.

Now they just get rid of shit on a whim. Even the x64 based board in my current machine (from last year) still has USB-A ports. It isn't going away any time soon regardless of any supposed advantages to USB-C. Whatever performance boosts there are are superfluous as most USB devices just don't need massive speed anyway.

It's even more pointless than the Thunderbolt interface they had a few years ago, except at least that generated genuinely gorgeous video output if you had a monitor that supported it. But you were locked into it and then of course they discontinued that bullshit, thanks a lot for that, Apple.

 

[HumanHive]

The thing about USB-A is there is no actual reason to drop it beyond the size of the hole - and while that's an issue for laptops and phones, for desktop computers - AKA where the majority of the userbase is - it's a complete non-issue and dropping USB-A would render millions of perfectly good products obsolete for no benefit.

 

[Gamepad]

The thing about USB-A is there is no actual reason to drop it beyond the size of the hole - and while that's an issue for laptops and phones, for desktop computers - AKA where the majority of the userbase is - it's a complete non-issue and dropping USB-A would render millions of perfectly good products obsolete for no benefit.

Imagine the ewaste from all the obsolete USB-A chargers.

 

[malt ipecac]

It's even more pointless than the Thunderbolt interface they had a few years ago, except at least that generated genuinely gorgeous video output if you had a monitor that supported it. But you were locked into it and then of course they discontinued that bullshit, thanks a lot for that, Apple.

The USB-C ports on the new MacBooks are also Thunderbolt 3 ports, and I've found it really convenient to connect to a monitor via Thunderbolt-to-DisplayPort. A neat bonus is that this setup lets you use True Tone on the external monitor when your laptop is also open. Much better than the old Thunderbolt ports.

The thing about USB-A is there is no actual reason to drop it beyond the size of the hole

Well, the size of the hole affects the thickness of the laptop frame itself. The current MacBooks would need to have thicker bodies to accommodate USB-A. If two MacBook styles were available -- one as-is, another that accommodates USB-A -- I would definitely want the thinner style.

dropping USB-A would render millions of perfectly good products obsolete for no benefit.

Imagine the ewaste from all the obsolete USB-A chargers.

This argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You can buy a dongle for either direction (A-to-C or C-to-A), so a switch to USB-C ports isn't going to make devices unusable. It's the USB-A connector that's obsolete, not the device that uses that connector.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Well, the size of the hole affects the thickness of the laptop frame itself. The current MacBooks would need to have thicker bodies to accommodate USB-A. If two MacBook styles were available -- one as-is, another that accommodates USB-A -- I would definitely want the thinner style.

FACT: The correct thickness of a laptop is at least enough to have two USB-A ports stacked on top of each other.

 

[General Tug Boat]

Being the first time in my life that I have actually been exposed to Apple platform for IOS development, I am going to have to say that there are some good ideas in the general layout of the operating system, but I find it is very jarring to translate over from being a lifelong Windows user.

Swift programming is pretty counter intuitive to me as well currently, but is what it is. I never got into Apple products because how short the lifecycles on those machines are and how they cannot for the life of them keep support of tried and true hardware. The USB port translation is just one of the ridiculous overly complicated design practices that is involved in Apples tech.

Though, I can't dunk totally on Apple, but definitely is out of its glory days when it comes to innovate practices. I find when they are not breaking shit, it's just normie garbage that breaks the bank for the average consumer. Just my perspective on Apple stuff in the current era. Apple shit is needlessly galaxy brained, some things are easier, but is a pain in the ass for PC and Android fags like me.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Being the first time in my life that I have actually been exposed to Apple platform for IOS development, I am going to have to say that there are some good ideas in the general layout of the operating system, but I find it is very jarring to translate over from being a lifelong Windows user.

Swift programming is pretty counter intuitive to me as well currently, but is what it is. I never got into Apple products because how short the lifecycles on those machines are and how they cannot for the life of them keep support of tried and true hardware. The USB port translation is just one of the ridiculous overly complicated design practices that is involved in Apples tech.

Though, I can't dunk totally on Apple, but definitely is out of its glory days when it comes to innovate practices. I find when they are not breaking shit, it's just normie garbage that breaks the bank for the average consumer. Just my perspective on Apple stuff in the current era. Apple shit is needlessly galaxy brained, some things are easier, but is a pain in the ass for PC and Android fags like me.

I honestly don't know how this "short product lifecycle" meme persists in 2021. The iPhone 5s is still a completely adequate phone 8 years after its release and is still officially supported (albeit not on the latest OS), with the last update being about a week ago. The MBP I bought for college is still chugging along 6 years later, and updating to the latest OS actually made it faster and improved the battery life... somehow. Old gen 3 Apple watches from 5 years ago are still perfectly usable today. On the other hand, in my experience Android phones and Windows laptops tend to be good for maybe 2-3 years before they shit themselves and become unbearably slow.

There's lots of valid critique to lay at Apple's feet, but complaining that the product lifecycle is too short is just objectively untrue when Apple consistently leads the competition in device longevity, with the only real exceptions being specific inexcusable failures like the shitty Macbook keyboards from a few years back.

 

[AnOminous]

I honestly don't know how this "short product lifecycle" meme persists in 2021. The iPhone 5s is still a completely adequate phone 8 years after its release and is still officially supported (albeit not on the latest OS), with the last update being about a week ago. The MBP I bought for college is still chugging along 6 years later, and updating to the latest OS actually made it faster and improved the battery life... somehow. Old gen 3 Apple watches from 5 years ago are still perfectly usable today. On the other hand, in my experience Android phones and Windows laptops tend to be good for maybe 2-3 years before they shit themselves and become unbearably slow.

The MacBook 1,1 (2006) that I got in 2007 lasted until last year, despite being taken with me nearly everywhere in two stints in school and being beaten to hell nearly continually. By the end, I was running Linux on it (Peppermint) because Snow Leopard finally became completely unsupported without even security fixes.

The 13" unibody MacBook Pro from 2008 I'd had since 2011 (and it was used for three years by that time) is still functional and having been kept more or less stationary, still looks slick. I just have to open it up and replace the fan and battery (probably the last time I do that) to get some more use out of it. It is probably also time to go for Linux with that.

By comparison, the crappy Compaq laptop I got solely for taking the bar exam was dead about three years later and only marginally functional from when I bought it. Of course, this isn't really a fair comparison to premium Apple products since the CQ60 was absolute junk right out of the box, but compared to Apple, almost all other manufacturers who aren't selling specifically ruggedized laptops are selling similar junk.

Where Apple is a genuine nuisance about their planned obsolescence practices is in dropping software support for completely functional hardware. Whatever you might think about Windows, they tenaciously maintain backward compatibility as long as possible.

I'm used to Apple products being completely functional long after they're past any support by Apple.

 

[ditto]

Where Apple is a genuine nuisance about their planned obsolescence practices is in dropping software support for completely functional hardware. Whatever you might think about Windows, they tenaciously maintain backward compatibility as long as possible.

This worries me the most about the M1 macs. At least with a 2009 iMac you can wipe and install Linux or even Windows 10. But the M1 being nearly as locked down as a iPad means they're going to be impossible to repurpose once the updates end.

Apple never tells its customers when a minor update is the last before entering the security update period, nor when a major version of macOS is receiving its last security update.

 

[AnOminous]

This worries me the most about the M1 macs. At least with a 2009 iMac you can wipe and install Linux or even Windows 10. But the M1 being nearly as locked down as a iPad means they're going to be impossible to repurpose once the updates end.

I'm not sure this isn't illegal or some kind of breach of some vague contractual concept like "the implied duty of good faith and fair dealing" or some other state or federal consumer laws. I can't see how anyone could profit by going after them for it except if they were one of Apple's biggest corporate clients or by class action (benefiting mainly lawyers).

Perhaps some ambitious prosecutor could go for it. The Southern District of New York seems to like playing cop for the entire country.

 

[Least Concern]

This worries me the most about the M1 macs. At least with a 2009 iMac you can wipe and install Linux or even Windows 10. But the M1 being nearly as locked down as a iPad means they're going to be impossible to repurpose once the updates end.

Citation needed. There are M1-compatible Linux and BSD releases being worked on as we speak. Hector Martin of the Byuu drama fame is also the project lead of what might be the most popular one, Asahi Linux. Here's NetBSD instructions. It will take a while before hardware support is near 100%, but by the time these first M1 machines are no longer supported by macOS I'm betting there will be at least a handful of usable alternatives to choose from.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Where Apple is a genuine nuisance about their planned obsolescence practices is in dropping software support for completely functional hardware. Whatever you might think about Windows, they tenaciously maintain backward compatibility as long as possible.

I still use a PowerPC toaster. Not for online stuff, of course.

The only real issue is that the very low RAM (256 MB) can mean constant "virtual memory" use.

 

[ditto]

Citation needed

M1 (and T2) Macs can be activation locked like iPads and iPhones rendering them useless if they haven't been unlocked first. Also there's a whole new concept of the Owner Identity Certificate that must be obtained from Apple's servers before installing a new OS.

Hector Martin of the Byuu drama fame is also the project lead of what might be the most popular one, Asahi Linux. Here's NetBSD instructions.

I really hope someone can pull it off without Apple's help. Not looking good for that project though.
The GPU driver hasn't had a commit in over 6 months.

 

[Michael Janke]

does anyone here know anything about dual booting hackintoshes?
i feel like that might be my next build.

 

[DiggieSmalls]

I'm not sure this isn't illegal or some kind of breach of some vague contractual concept like "the implied duty of good faith and fair dealing" or some other state or federal consumer laws. I can't see how anyone could profit by going after them for it except if they were one of Apple's biggest corporate clients or by class action (benefiting mainly lawyers).

Perhaps some ambitious prosecutor could go for it. The Southern District of New York seems to like playing cop for the entire country.

Windows laptops are bios bonded. I tried to wipe and install Linux one time and azurewave shit literally rooted me on install. It automatically set a password and I had no way of getting in. It was the most backwards ass thing and something that spooked the shit out of me honestly

 

[Kosher Dill]

Asking for help on behalf of a boomer: they have an old Mac (like from 2008 or so) and I think it's running into issues with a root CA certificate being expired. It sounds like this:

Let's Encrypt's Root Certificate is expiring!

On 30th September 2021, the root certificate that Let's Encrypt are currently using, the IdentTrust DST Root CA X3 certificate, will expire. You may or may not need to do anything about this Root CA expiring, but I'm betting a few things will probably break on that day so here's

scotthelme.co.uk

Does anyone know if there's a way to update these or is the machine just useless for MacOS now?

 

[Mister Qwerty]

Asking for help on behalf of a boomer: they have an old Mac (like from 2008 or so) and I think it's running into issues with a root CA certificate being expired. It sounds like this:

Let's Encrypt's Root Certificate is expiring!

On 30th September 2021, the root certificate that Let's Encrypt are currently using, the IdentTrust DST Root CA X3 certificate, will expire. You may or may not need to do anything about this Root CA expiring, but I'm betting a few things will probably break on that day so here's

scotthelme.co.uk

Does anyone know if there's a way to update these or is the machine just useless for MacOS now?

I got a 2009 iMac running El Capitan 10.11.6 and since last night I keep getting the "Your connection is not private" error for the Wikipedia and Quora websites on Chrome and Safari.