US AP: Basic training without yelling: Army recruits get 2nd chance - After failing the ASVAB three times, dindu has dreams of being a Green Beret, going Airborne, or becoming an officer!

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Basic training without yelling: Army recruits get 2nd chance
Associated Press (archive.ph)
By Lolita C. Baldor
2023-03-29 04:07:34GMT

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FILE - Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. James McConville left, listens to Daysia Holiday, a student in the Future Soldier Prep Course, right, at Fort Jackson in Columbia, S.C. Aug. 26, 2022. (AP Photo/Sean Rayford, File)
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FILE - Students in the new Army Prep Course sit at desks at Fort Jackson in Columbia, S.C., Aug. 26, 2022. (AP Photo/Sean Rayford, File)

WASHINGTON (AP) — Last August, Daysia Holiday decided to try one more time to join the Army.

She’d taken the academic test and failed three times. So, when she was offered a slot in a new Army prep course to help improve her scores and qualify for basic training, she jumped at the chance.

Seven months later, Pvt. 2nd Class Holiday is a proud graduate of Army basic training, and is finishing her advanced instruction at Fort Lee, Virginia, to become a power generation specialist who will maintain engines and other equipment for the service.

Holiday is an early beneficiary of the new program, which gives lower-performing recruits up to 90 days of academic or fitness instruction to help them meet military standards. In place for only eight months, it is already making a significant difference for both the Army and those who want to serve in it.

So far, 5,400 soldiers have made it through the prep course since it started in August at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. That’s an important boost since the Army fell dramatically short of its recruiting goals last year, due to low unemployment and general wariness about military service. And at least one other military service, the Navy, took notice and is setting up a similar course.

For those who make it through the program, it can be life-changing. Holiday, 23, said many of her peers in her hometown of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, didn’t make it out of high school, with some “dead or in jail.” Sitting outside the class building in her Army fatigues last summer, she talked about trying to pass the academic test for two years with no success.

She said she wanted to set an example, especially for her younger siblings. The prep course gave her a second chance. She raised her academic score by more than 20 points.

The course, she said, was like “basic training without the yelling.” It also allowed her to bond with fellow students. “We helped each other out throughout basic training, so it was easy,” she said. “All of us actually passed, so it was a good experience. And we all keep in touch.”

Army leaders say the program — it involves classroom instruction and training ranging from how to wear the uniform and properly make a bed to fitness and discipline — gives recruits like Holiday an advantage.

“I think an interesting thing we’ve seen is that the kids coming out of that course, who go into basic, actually seem to have a little bit of a leg up,” said Army Secretary Christine Wormuth. “During basic training, certain young individuals who show a little bit more leadership skills than others get selected to have leadership positions. And what we’re seeing is the kids coming out of the prep course are often the ones who are being chosen for that.”

As of March 17, nearly 8,400 people had been admitted to the prep course and more than 5,400 had graduated and gone on to basic training. Army Lt. Col. Randy Ready, spokesman for the Army Center for Initial Military Training, said about 6% of those recruits don’t make it through basic and advanced individual training, about the same attrition rate as for those who don’t go through the prep course.

Ready said almost 4,000 of the graduates were in the academic track and about 1,400 were in the fitness track. Students in the academic program increased their test scores by an average of 19 points, he said.

“It has been largely very, very successful,” said Maj. Gen. Johnny Davis, head of Army Recruiting Command, adding that students who go through the prep course come out more prepared. “It instills a level of positively and confidence in those future soldiers.”

Gen. James McConville, Army chief of staff, told a House committee on Tuesday that students in the program are improving their academic scores and losing 4% to 6% of their body fat.

“We’re really giving them discipline,” he said. “They’re getting in shape. We’re giving them a head start. So when going into initial military training, where they were at the lowest category, they’re actually excelling and in some ways exceeding the standards — becoming the student leaders.”

Once in the program, recruits are tested every week. And every three weeks they can move into basic training if they pass the military’s academic test — the Armed Services Voluntary Aptitude Battery — or if they meet the physical standards. If they don’t pass or meet the standards after the first three weeks, they can stay on and keep testing for up to 90 days, but they have to leave the Army if they haven’t succeeded by then.

Army leaders initially thought they might open as many as four locations for the prep course, but they haven’t seen the need. Instead, they doubled the capacity at Fort Jackson and created a smaller, similar program at Fort Benning, Georgia, which gives young soldiers a chance to raise their academic scores if they want to qualify for higher-skilled jobs or bonuses.

The program got the Navy’s attention. Late last November, Navy Capt. Frank Brown and several others visited Fort Jackson, and as a result will open a new sailor fitness prep course next month. Brown said recruits who are 6% above the body composition requirements will take a three-week fitness course, and can repeat it for up to 90 days to meet the standards and go on to boot camp.

Brown, the director of operations for training at Naval Station Great Lakes in Illinois, said 60 to 80 recruits will start the course on April 10. He said the Navy is also planning a pilot program for an academic course, likely this summer, to allow lower-scoring recruits to improve so they can qualify for higher-skilled jobs.

Air Force officials said they haven’t ruled out doing a prep program, but are currently using other ways to boost recruiting.

“We are focusing our efforts on eliminating unnecessary or outdated policy barriers to recruiting, adapting our outreach strategy, and adjusting our recruiting approach” to better reach potential recruits, said Maj. Gen. Ed Thomas, commander of the Air Force Recruiting Service.

As for Holiday, when she graduates Wednesday she will head to her first post, in Fort Carson, Colorado. “I’m very much glad that I did it,” she said. “It’s been a good journey for me.”

And she’s got bigger ambitions.

“I still want to try to do the Green Beret (course),” she said. “And, I want to do other courses — airborne and stuff like that. And I want to also try to become an officer as well.”
 
Seven months later, Pvt. 2nd Class Holiday is a proud graduate of Army basic training, and is finishing her advanced instruction at Fort Lee, Virginia, to become a power generation specialist who will maintain engines and other equipment for the service.
Look, not all mechanical shit is super IQ; but you don't want your maintenance people to be the types who needed help to pass the ASVAB (which I imagine only gotten dumber since I went in).

Army leaders say the program — it involves classroom instruction and training ranging from how to wear the uniform and properly make a bed to fitness and discipline — gives recruits like Holiday an advantage.
Outside of your dress uniform, the shit practically dresses itself; but if they needed extra instruction, I'm guessing this is the kind of person who fails at "left-over-right" on their boot laces.

“I still want to try to do the Green Beret (course),” she said. “And, I want to do other courses — airborne and stuff like that. And I want to also try to become an officer as well.”
She's gonna get as many retries as it takes, unlike everyone else who flunks out.
 
They didn't meet the standard. They got extra instruction and then they met the standard. Good for them.

What this tells us is the recruits had the innate talent to join the military, but the public schools didn't prepare them. I suspect that's not just true for the military, but for lots of fields.
 
Served 21 years, retired senior officer. Started as an E-1 myself.

And you served ...when?

I served with your mom last night.

Settle down, Beavis. I figured a real NCO would have threatened to bust some privates down to E-0 at some point in his life and roll with the joke. Everyone knows its not a real rank, unless you want count an E-1 being docked half their pay.
 
They didn't meet the standard. They got extra instruction and then they met the standard. Good for them.

What this tells us is the recruits had the innate talent to join the military, but the public schools didn't prepare them. I suspect that's not just true for the military, but for lots of fields.
You want to know the truth, there is no "innate talent" to join the military. There's being in reasonable enough shape and not being a complete retard; if you can get a high school diploma, you should be able to get into the military (unless you were carried). This person will be excellent for taking in information and being told what to do; but I wouldn't expect any sort of leadership authority from them outside of being the senior junior enlisted. There are also some physical/medical conditions that automatically disqualify you from certain jobs; like practically all maintenance (as far as I know) need to not be color-blind. Pilots and snipers need to have perfect vision, as well as a strong hold of math/physics; but those are more specialized compared to your basic enlisted. If you want to enlist, you mostly have to be a functioning warm body; if you need help achieving that, you're a liability.
 
We had one guy in another platoon who didn't know how to shower, literally didn't process the concept,
how the fuck did he make it to adulthood without someone telling him how to shower.
jeez.
did he just turn the water on and let it run down his body. so he's technically showering but not cleaning.
or did he just take a bath every time.
 
if you can get a high school diploma, you should be able to get into the military (unless you were carried).
The rest of your post is a solid agree, but this part is not true. I promise you as shitty as you thought Highschool was at preparing students for life, the reality at a disturbing number of schools mainly in cities is even worse. It barely even qualifies as daycare anymore. It is racist to hold kids back, it is black oppression to fail them out and deny them a diploma even if they are illiterate and unable to do simple math, it is colonization & systemic racial violence to make them do extra classes (I say this because while a number of these stupid niggers are white, the language that justifies this no-standards approach is always talking about how unfair it is to expect blacks to have positive IQs). The only thing you can do that isn't reinstating slavery is to give them the same diploma as everyone else.
And this is the result: graduates who can't pass the ASVAB.

how the fuck did he make it to adulthood without someone telling him how to shower.
jeez.
did he just turn the water on and let it run down his body. so he's technically showering but not cleaning.

Pretty much.
Not my platoon (thank god) but I guess he didn't understand the need lather soap, rub it on your body, and then rinse it off. The guy who relayed this to me said Nasty-Ass's explanation for this was he'd only taken baths his entire life. But even when people tried to explain it to him he didn't get it, just couldn't grasp the concept. Maybe he didn't think the water would wash places that were downward facing.
After about a week, he smelled so bad DS marched him to the showers to instruct him, literally "Rub the washcloth on soap..now take the washcloth with the soap and rub it on your skin". He then was assigned a "shower buddy" to make sure he actually washed his ass, but I guess it took. He didn't have any issues after that... well didn't have any hygiene issues.
 
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US military recruitment is starting to sounds more and more like recruitment in starship troopers to the point its getting concerning. Remember in that military they absolutely had to take you no matter how fucked up and incompetent you were and if you were that fucked up they'd literally invent some stupidly dangerous and pointless job to make you suffer your way through your enlistment. and if you were too stupid even for that? They'd give you the option of being a human test subject for medical experiments or equipment testing. Even the idiot doing ricos evaluation prior to enlistment pointed out that they aren't allowed to fail anyone and the only way you can't enlist is by being too fucked in the head to understand the enlistment oath
Congrats, you completely missed the entire point of that section of the book.
 
Congrats, you completely missed the entire point of that section of the book.
after vietnam we stopped recruiting literal morons.
if your iq is below like 90, they literally wont take you.
it would take more manpower to have someone tard wrangle you at your job than it's worth.
also the factor of your superiors being killed in battle and you having to take up a battlefield leadership position.
cant have a literal tard taking over.
 
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As a former paratrooper, I always seemed to remember that parachute rigger was low on the ASVAB scale right before I'd hit the door. Luckily none ever fucked my shit up but god damn are riggers fucking stupid.

No my N key isn't broken for once.

That is just horrific. If the man putting the wings on my airplane was that level of dumb I would be petrified, and putting bolts in is arguably less complex than laying out a mess of cords properly. I've helped pack chutes for drag racing, if you're stupid I could see you fucking it up and those are smaller and less critical.

The rest of your post is a solid agree, but this part is not true. I promise you as shitty as you thought Highschool was at preparing students for life, the reality at a disturbing number of schools mainly in cities is even worse. It barely even qualifies as daycare anymore. It is racist to hold kids back, it is black oppression to fail them out and deny them a diploma even if they are illiterate and unable to do simple math, it is colonization & systemic racial violence to make them do extra classes (I say this because while a number of these stupid niggers are white, the language that justifies this no-standards approach is always talking about how unfair it is to expect blacks to have positive IQs). The only thing you can do that isn't reinstating slavery is to give them the same diploma as everyone else.
And this is the result: graduates who can't pass the ASVAB.

It's almost unbelievable how bad the public schools are now. I know it varies state-to-state, but my anecdote stands. I have a friend who is a teacher, here it is the MO now to pass students, you need strict justification to hold a child back even if they are academically unsatisfactory, you have to justify failing them, if their grades are bad enough you have to set a lower standard so they can pass grade. I am speaking functionally here and not academically; the mentally disabled and severely autistic get a better quality education than the marginal and mediocre. The former are able to stay past normal age and be given individual attention and skills-based learning to at least try to prepare them for some fraction of independence. The marginal kids in the regular classes just slip through the cracks and don't learn anything except that they can coast and still get what they want. Only exceptional students can be given jack shit to work with and still achieve on their own volition, below average kids suffer the most. From what I remember, you'd have to be retarded to fail the ASVAB, and a shit quality education that just lets everything slide can take you down with it from marginal to retarded.
 
“I still want to try to do the Green Beret (course),” she said. “And, I want to do other courses — airborne and stuff like that. And I want to also try to become an officer as well.”
"Try" to do it. Like it's just some kind of fucking thing she can do on a whim.

No more "Best of the best" shit.

She wants to do it... why? Because she wants to. No other reason. And there's no reason to keep her from doing it, because she wants to do it. That means she'll be able to "try to do". She wants to do other courses like "airborne and stuff like that"

She wants to do the cool shit. Shit that she saw gives other people respect.

She has no idea why she should do them or why she shouldn't.

I'll bet that when she finds out that school slots are limited, and her MOS might not even qualify her to take these schools, she'll scream sexism and racism and get to go anyway, where she'll be allowed to fail over and over until she passes.

Just read this...


And this...


When the women got pissed and started going "Well, let's see YOUR records" when demands were made to investigate the claims.

Or course, it turned out worse than anyone could imagine.

The two women didn't actually pass. They never completed the road march among other things.

But this chick in the article here? She'll be allowed to go to Green Beret school, the Q-Course, because she WANTS to, of course.

Who cares about standards, and reasons.

And when she fails, which she will, she'll scream racism and then will be walked through the course.

God, I hate people like this.
 
how the fuck did he make it to adulthood without someone telling him how to shower.
jeez.
did he just turn the water on and let it run down his body. so he's technically showering but not cleaning.
or did he just take a bath every time.
I had a guy in my platoon who would hide half eaten food in his sock drawer and forget about it. He also has a slime on his skin like he had just gotten out of the Matrix. He smelled like sin.

That wasn't at basic btw this was in a full time infantry unit. So this dude passed basic like that.
 
"Try" to do it. Like it's just some kind of fucking thing she can do on a whim.

No more "Best of the best" shit.

She wants to do it... why? Because she wants to. No other reason. And there's no reason to keep her from doing it, because she wants to do it. That means she'll be able to "try to do". She wants to do other courses like "airborne and stuff like that"

She wants to do the cool shit. Shit that she saw gives other people respect.

She has no idea why she should do them or why she shouldn't.

I'll bet that when she finds out that school slots are limited, and her MOS might not even qualify her to take these schools, she'll scream sexism and racism and get to go anyway, where she'll be allowed to fail over and over until she passes.

Just read this...


And this...


When the women got pissed and started going "Well, let's see YOUR records" when demands were made to investigate the claims.

Or course, it turned out worse than anyone could imagine.

The two women didn't actually pass. They never completed the road march among other things.

But this chick in the article here? She'll be allowed to go to Green Beret school, the Q-Course, because she WANTS to, of course.

Who cares about standards, and reasons.

And when she fails, which she will, she'll scream racism and then will be walked through the course.

God, I hate people like this.
One of the first Ranger "grad" LTs was in my battalion. She ended up getting caught fucking a married infantry 1SG. The whole thing was a huge embarrassment.

I also worked the pre Ranger course and without further doxing myself I'll say that females had a different grading curve.

Also this is a pattern with females in the infantry in general. Here is the same concept but different unit:

Notice how all the agency is removed from the poor female infantrywoman. Even though it takes two to fuck it's just a horny bastard NCO at fault.

Anyways the Army is degrading not in inches but by miles. It's so much worse than when I left I heard and I know from talking with you it's so far removed from the 90s.

I know you disagree but letting women serve in something other than the WAC was a mistake.
 
I know you disagree but letting women serve in something other than the WAC was a mistake.

One of my top-five bosses was LTC in the reserves and got called up during Desert Storm. She was also a great person.

We had a black female private in my unit. She could out-run, out-push, out-lift 90% of the dudes including my commo ass. Completely squared away, I would have gone to war beside her any day of the week.

However we also had a dozen lazy, profile milking, batting eyelashes at the NCOs to skate, trying to get knocked up for that medical separation, triffling females who should never have never been let through a recruitment office let alone made it through basic.
So its mostly a mistake, and I just wish the "but the wammen" soggy-kneed whiners would make it easier to weed out the useless lumps.

Also did you watch the hilarity of the ungendered AFPT?
 
From what I remember, you'd have to be retarded to fail the ASVAB, and a shit quality education that just lets everything slide can take you down with it from marginal to retarded.
You have to be a real retard to fail the ASVAB, yes. But retards are what highschools are graduating.
The issue is a lot of the marginal cases, and now even the average ones, are not being taught how to deal with mental challenges other than to say "this is hard" and get a teacher to come powder their ass and give them a participation trophy.

Anywya, this is drifting from the point I was making, which is while a HS diploma should get you ready to utterly annihilate the ASVAB, and did in the past, that's no longer the case. You can earn a diploma, and while not being mentally disabled, lack the basic educational foundation to pass because highschool was just glorified day care.

Its not that they are incapable of learning to read, no one ever made them so they didn't bother.
 
I went through part of "selection" for special forces and during the training you are taken away from Fort Bragg to a area known as Camp Mccall where you are dumped with around 150 to 200 other recruits, your rank and name stripped from your uniform and replaced with a four digit number, during the gruelling process of selection the cadre would from time to time find someone dozing off do to sleep deprivation or fucking up one way or another and just quietly write the number down in a log book, without telling the recruit anything, this means that more likely than not you had just failed the test however you were never told this, so you would be going through weeks of gruelling training knowing in the back of your mind you may have already been failed from the course, a real mind fuck, and a surprise to no one, niggers make terrible soldiers.
 
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