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One Piece legitimately has gone on for too long. How many times has Luffy helped out a princess at this point? I don't think Oda had everything figured out and now he's rushing towards the end because Miura's death, IIRC, actually made him think about his own life and the time he's spent on One Piece. Satan with the Rinnegan feels like something completely made up on the spot.

Yeah, series need to end or they become unapproachable for any generation past the original. And almost certainely the ending will be underwhelming.

 

[God of Nothing]

Sure if you want to strip character, context, established lore, consequences to existing story, and just throw that all away. Yeah, everything is Star Wars. I can make that midwit argument too.

It's a midwit argument though, and it always has been.

The irony of opposing me on grounds of being reductionist while reducing me pointing out how this is damn near copy and paste the same plot structure as every unwanted and unwarranted sequel to me just not understanding context.

 

[Fat At The Internet]

One Piece is only good if you either started it back when it started or when on an autism spree and read through the thousand+ manga chapters.

The thing that annoys me about One Piece is that it's just Luffy running down a series of hallways since Thriller Bark. Sure, with Bleach the plot sits around waiting for the MC to show up, with OP it's just watching the MC do a marathon to get there.

 

[God of Nothing]

The thing that annoys me about One Piece is that it's just Luffy running down a series of hallways since Thriller Bark. Sure, with Bleach the plot sits around waiting for the MC to show up, with OP it's just watching the MC do a marathon to get there.

People seem to label stuff happening other than the main plot filler a lot as of late, yet it's hard for me to deny you could cut half of One Piece and still have the same, maybe even better, story.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Yeah, Bleach is mostly for spectacle. The last arc shit, but it's at least cool-looking shit. I read it some time after it ended so I didn't have to worry about having to wait for the next chapter. Meanwhile, to diss Naruto more, I recall that not only the drawing was literal shit at times (as in, it was clearly made in a hurry to get the weekly quota), there were characters so inconsequential that the author forgot about them (like Sai, the "drawings become real" guy, not being visible during a zoom out scene with the Team 7 despite being right here in a close-up in the previous page, kek). If Bleach's villains are OP, Madara-derp literally had every power-up in the book, requiring multiple retcons and aliens to take down the fucker. Oh, and didn't the anime of Naruto killed at least two animators from exhaustion?

That reminds me, how's 666 Satan? The manga from Kishimoto's brother? It shouldn't be as bad as Naruto.

 

[Ensok]

Naruto aint that bad.

 

[God of Nothing]

Naruto aint that bad.

hard carried by its first part though, if we're being honest

 

[Ensok]

hard carried by its first part though, if we're being honest

I think some people get a little silly in their criticism of it, as if they feel personally attacked by Kishimoto.

Bleach I enjoyed for the most part but it was never as good or as bad as Naruto or One Piece. The final arc that they've finally been doing over the past several years has the same problem as Wano in the One Piece anime: good animation doesn't fix a shitty story. If the War Arc of Naruto ever got a Kai treatment it would have the same problem too.

 

[The Fair Lady]

People saying they're make a Boruto-style sequel starring Kazui are forgetting one thing: Kazui is a fucking creepy kid. The general vibe won't be identical.

Finally, someone with sense. The kid is ugly and genuinely unsettling with those huge bug eyes.

 

[Seething Bazelgeuse]

Finally, someone with sense. The kid is ugly and genuinely unsettling with those huge bug eyes.

Perhaps I'm simply not autistic enough. I don't see it. He's small Ichigo with his mother's eyes. In a series with characters like fucking Kurotsuchi a slightly bug eyed little boy is hardly ugly or unsettling.

 

[Fat At The Internet]

In a series with characters like fucking Kurotsuchi a slightly bug eyed little boy is hardly ugly or unsettling.

Kurotsuchi is just Nick Cage with face paint. He can pass for a normal individual as long as you put him in shades and prevent him from talking.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Yeah, series need to end or they become unapproachable for any generation past the original. And almost certainely the ending will be underwhelming.

Considering how many 20 somethings are into One Piece and Dragon Ball I don't think this is the case. There does have to be some multi-generational fanbase shilling it to overcome the hurdle though; no one's strapping in for their first watch through of the 167 episodes + 4 movies of InuYasha in current year.

Or worse; Detective Conan

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

The irony of opposing me on grounds of being reductionist while reducing me pointing out how this is damn near copy and paste the same plot structure as every unwanted and unwarranted sequel to me just not understanding context.

To be honest, I just didn't want to spend time writing a wall of text cause I'm lazy.

Spoiler: Sperging

>Children shown with powers active but not nearly as capable as their progenitors (yet)
That's not what happens. We barely see Kazui and Ichika. All we see from them is Ichika can see the Hell Hollows and Kazui opens a portal to Hell.

>Sudden new but not quite different enemy appears (Radditz, the fucking moon people, the First Order)
My main point is that all of the examples you listed were ass pulls that come from nowhere. Szyael Aporro does not. Heck, he even made an appearance in the previous arc. We've known for a long time Hell is where he wound up.

Hell is something that we know exists in Bleach. It's not random and it doesn't come out of nowhere. All of those things were ass pulls if you remember. Raditz was quite literally an ass pull.

>Is stronger to a surprising degree but not strong enough to beat the established heroes wholeheartedly
Except that's not what happens. Syzael doesn't really fight them for long before their fight is interrupted. We don't really know how strong Szyael is. He seems to be under the impression he can kill Ichigo and Renji. Probably not, but it's possible. We don't know yet.

>Hehehehehe, I was only the weakest/Did you think this one completely unrelated or elaborated thing wasn't related to this whole other thing we haven't fully explored?
What do you want a story to do? Introduce a completely new concept that has no lead in or connection to established lore? That's a waste. We're in late stage territory for a story. You have more storymaking tools at your disposal and established lore you can use to your advantage. Why would you deliberately miss a chance to expand your own lore in favor of "oh these things aren't related!". Of course it's related.

I said this being called Generic is wrong and I meant it. This is only a story that could be told by and specifically for Bleach where the established lore is already setup. It has impact because it bears future potential consequences for Ichigo who has pursued so much power over the story. It has a theme to it of Soul Society's Secrets Once Again Fuck Everyone Over. All of this is only happening because they (and we the audience) weren't aware of the events during the main story were having these unintended consequences. It's impact completely depends on Bleach's events.

So my ultimate question is "How you can you call a story that's so dependent on series specific lore 'generic'?" The answer is you can't.

there were characters so inconsequential that the author forgot about them

There's actually quite a few of these. Anyone remember Hayate's wife? Filler had to fix that one.

Naruto aint that bad.

The problem is that Naruto doesn't hold up well to a microscope and other stories are far better in that department. Boruto made everything worse. There's a lot of problems when you start picking at Naruto that are just series-breaking.

hard carried by its first part though, if we're being honest

If there were ever an argument that Editors are a good thing it was Naruto's first half having a team of very good editors.

good animation doesn't fix a shitty story.

The problem is a lot of the story didn't get put to paper. Kubo had five to seven years worth of stories left to tell by the TYBW and didn't get any of that done due to this health. So a lot of it went towards Can't Fear Your Own World. Prior to the anime, TYBW really did depend on CFYOW to make ANY sense. It really doesn't do well without it. Something the anime will now have to address.

Finally, someone with sense. The kid is ugly and genuinely unsettling with those huge bug eyes.

I think that's the point. Given the last panel we see Kazui in, it's pretty apparent we're supposed to be at least a little unsettled by him.

 

[God of Nothing]

Children shown with powers active but not nearly as capable as their progenitors (yet)
That's not what happens. We barely see Kazui and Ichika. All we see from them is Ichika can see the Hell Hollows and Kazui opens a portal to Hell.

>Sudden new but not quite different enemy appears (Radditz, the fucking moon people, the First Order)
My main point is that all of the examples you listed were ass pulls that come from nowhere. Szyael Aporro does not. Heck, he even made an appearance in the previous arc. We've known for a long time Hell is where he wound up.

Hell is something that we know exists in Bleach. It's not random and it doesn't come out of nowhere. All of those things were ass pulls if you remember. Raditz was quite literally an ass pull.

>Is stronger to a surprising degree but not strong enough to beat the established heroes wholeheartedly
Except that's not what happens. Syzael doesn't really fight them for long before their fight is interrupted. We don't really know how strong Szyael is. He seems to be under the impression he can kill Ichigo and Renji. Probably not, but it's possible. We don't know yet.

>Hehehehehe, I was only the weakest/Did you think this one completely unrelated or elaborated thing wasn't related to this whole other thing we haven't fully explored?
What do you want a story to do? Introduce a completely new concept that has no lead in or connection to established lore? That's a waste. We're in late stage territory for a story. You have more storymaking tools at your disposal and established lore you can use to your advantage. Why would you deliberately miss a chance to expand your own lore in favor of "oh these things aren't related!". Of course it's related.

I said this being called Generic is wrong and I meant it. This is only a story that could be told by and specifically for Bleach where the established lore is already setup. It has impact because it bears future potential consequences for Ichigo who has pursued so much power over the story. It has a theme to it of Soul Society's Secrets Once Again Fuck Everyone Over. All of this is only happening because they (and we the audience) weren't aware of the events during the main story were having these unintended consequences. It's impact completely depends on Bleach's events.

So my ultimate question is "How you can you call a story that's so dependent on series specific lore 'generic'?" The answer is you can't.

I see we're just pretending like something blue isn't blue for a lot of these.
I'll just cut through the bullshit and hassle of dissecting these one by one by pointing out every excuse you make for this can be done for Naruto, Dragon Ball, and Star Wars. My words and criticism in the original argument were it being generic. And, since these are at least three major multi-million to billion in some cases dollar franchises, there is little you can do to convince me this isn't the case.

The problem is that Naruto doesn't hold up well to a microscope and other stories are far better in that department. Boruto made everything worse. There's a lot of problems when you start picking at Naruto that are just series-breaking.

And like I said before.
Irony.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

There does have to be some multi-generational fanbase shilling it to overcome the hurdle though

Here's an old guy reading One Piece on the train.

 

[God of Nothing]

Here's an old guy reading One Piece on the train.
View attachment 9030304

finish the manga for him oda
before the end

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

One Piece lately kind of meandered

lately?

nice priorities, lol

It's literally the only thing to talk about with Bleach. The show has nothing else of value besides "which of these 2d women are the most attractive?"

It also raises a really big question over what will happen to Ichigo off in the very distant future.

He'll just get handed an even more powerful transformation out of his ass and simply swing his sword super good. That's how Bleach solves problems.

Ooof, I see some people here don't like Bleach, which I understand. Still, compared to the other big two, at least Bleach didn't make you groan in pain from sheer cringe, unlike Naruto's last arc/s.

"Hey man, I know that we're eating turds but at least this one has some salt on it."


What if all three of the Big Three aren't actually that good? What then? Because let's be honest with ourselves here:

One Piece is shit and has always been shit it's the very embodiment of sunk cost fallacy where it's been bland horseshit for the past three years but hey maybe we'll get a run that's actually good for three months so we can shit up message boards about how great One Piece is and then retreat back underground for the next long while before another actually good arc happens where we can do this all again. Plus One Piece is fucking ugly both to look at and in motion.

Naruto goes on for way too long and the filler is legendary both for its amount and for its lack of quality, the animators at least knew how to concentrate their budget on the parts that mattered though and it legitimately still has some of the best fight scenes in all of anime, the show is nice to look at and it has some great characters and character designs. Plus it gets most of its best arcs out of the way fairly quickly so you can quit the show half way through and not lose much. Shippuden shits the bed (mostly due to the filler arcs and the shitty ending) and Boruto is terrible but at least Boruto can be ignored and Shippuden does at least have the occasional fun character or good spectacle.

Bleach is definitely the best looking of the Big Three, the characters and art design are great throughout and the spectacle can only be matched by select points in Naruto and far surpasses anything in One Piece. Bleach also does you the favor of getting its best arc out of the way early and then letting you drop it after the Soul Society arc so that you don't have to watch the shitty parts of the show.

None of these shows are actually good. They have good parts, I'd recommend people see bits and pieces of them, but non of them are shows or mangas that I'd seriously suggest people engage with in their entirety.

 

[Fat At The Internet]

Or worse; Detective Conan

Well Conan you can skip entire swathes of episodes and not really miss any context for the next story. I'd say it accommodates both live broadcast and binge watching. Probably something similar to pokemon where you don't see Ash catch an army of tauros, but you can accept that it happened when it's brought up later.
Mind as someone that watched a lot of the filler, it's just one manga story with a unique twist, then 10 more anime originals that rehash that same twist in slightly different ways. I'd have looked up a critical path if it weren't for that consolidation project going on at the same time.

 

[God of Nothing]

Well Conan you can skip entire swathes of episodes and not really miss any context for the next story. I'd say it accommodates both live broadcast and binge watching. Probably something similar to pokemon where you don't see Ash catch an army of tauros, but you can accept that it happened when it's brought up later.
Mind as someone that watched a lot of the filler, it's just one manga story with a unique twist, then 10 more anime originals that rehash that same twist in slightly different ways. I'd have looked up a critical path if it weren't for that consolidation project going on at the same time.

Didn't that finally end?

 

[Seminar]

Just watched S1 of "The Familiar of Zero" was good for me still felt bad for the guys that got there and got stranded (especially the i guess GI from Vietnam maybe? while other guy had full life so not as bad) i remember watching it when i was in middleshool by using some shitty phone app that most time just wouldnt show episodes if show was too "niche"
Will watch the rest since i dont think i watched more that S2 maybe 3 (there are 4 in total and some ovas and movies i think)