Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You also forgot to mention the part about how western studios are getting less and less subtle with their political ideal pushes.

Come to think of it, if you compare the worst anime ever released, to the worst western cartoons ever released, which would have done it the worse? As an example, what would be the anime version of Velma, or Kevin Smith's He-Man adaptation?

I don't think it's possible to compete with modern western animation with how much spite it has towards its roots and audience. Like the worse anime are either boring as shit, edgy as hell, porn, or really bad porn.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I don't think it's possible to compete with modern western animation with how much spite it has towards its roots and audience. Like the worse anime are either boring as shit, edgy as hell, porn, or really bad porn.

I mean bad anime typically just don’t hide how little budget they have well. Like when they just have exposition over establishing shoots and walk cycle animation to pad out run time.
Like Ghost in the Shell did this a ton, but typically just did the telepathy/ Wi-Fi talking to save budget on lip sync animation. That budget usually went to fun action scenes or cool environmental story telling.

Western animation is typically smooth, but usually in service of nothing really. There’s no real purpose to the animation being smooth. Old school Disney typically made stuff smooth to highlight elegance or something being odd.
I think the Blue Fairy being rotoscoped and having really high frame rate was literally a part of this. Much like how the fucking whale was basically painted.

It’s like watching Jamie Oliver cook with Western Animators. They’re educated, but they fuck up simple shit and put way too much effort in the wrong things.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I mean bad anime typically just don’t hide how little budget they have well. Like when they just have exposition over establishing shoots and walk cycle animation to pad out run time.
Like Ghost in the Shell did this a ton, but typically just did the telepathy/ Wi-Fi talking to save budget on lip sync animation. That budget usually went to fun action scenes or cool environmental story telling.

Western animation is typically smooth, but usually in service of nothing really. There’s no real purpose to the animation being smooth. Old school Disney typically made stuff smooth to highlight elegance or something being odd.
I think the Blue Fairy being rotoscoped and having really high frame rate was literally a part of this. Much like how the fucking whale was basically painted.

It’s like watching Jamie Oliver cook with Western Animators. They’re educated, but they fuck up simple shit and put way too much effort in the wrong things.

Worst anime (visually) I've seen was Flowers of Evil, like I don't give a shit if the rotoscoping was good, it looked like ass. I'd even prefer full bad cgi over it.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

Worst anime (visually) I've seen was Flowers of Evil, like I don't give a shit if the rotoscoping was good, it looked like ass. I'd even prefer full bad cgi over it.

That was just an odd creative choice and might’ve been the director throwing shade at Koreans (based).

 

[vern]

That's why I don't watch most anime nowadays, especially light novel adaptations, even if they are good. Very few will ever fully adapt the work they are supposed to be adapting, defeating the point of making an adaptation. If its not a long running Shonen series, its chances of getting a full adaptation are slim. Sadly, anime-first series are not necessarily better off, as they may not get a satisfying ending, especially if they aren't made with the idea of finishing in a single season, but don't have a second season guaranteed. The only exception is the series I'm following, Mushoku Tensei. The studio behind that was founded with the explicit purpose of adapting that series, and have committed to finishing it.

Frankly, I think anime has just reached the point of market oversaturation. Too much anime is being made by too many studios, and the vast majority is made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Nobody wants to put in the time and effort to actually fully adapt a long running series unless its a Shonen with a large amount of success, nor does anyone want to back an original property over the long term. Every studio is just pushing to work on as many low effort otaku pandering projects as possible and shit them out as fast as possible. We'll probably never get, just as one example, full adaptation of Vampire Hunter D, despite the novel series enduring popularity, or a modern adaptation of Violence Jack. I was freaking surprised when Parasyte got adapted, considering how the original manga came out in the 80s. Devilman only got a new series because Neflix produced it.

iirc the parasyte anime happened because at the time a live action trilogy was being filmed and some of the advertisement budget to produce an anime (think the same thing happened with Kaiji too)
Your not wrong about how many anime come from adaptations Found this recently that puts it into picture how much anime is being made and from what

Although I honestly think one of the problems with anime is if its not regally in the weekly or monthly Oricon rankings, its very unlikely to get an anime. But one problem is it takes a few years before an anime is put into production in that time certain series can go to shit and peak in sales well before the anime airs and never recovers, Kaiju 8 is probably gonna be a good example of this when it starts and you can maybe argue Mashel and CSM where two others (although I did think Oshi no Ko was gonna be another one as well but the anime was well produced enough to get people back to the manga so who knows)

I'm trying to think of some recent anime adaptations that weren't selling well before they got anime, iirc
Bocchi was selling less then 4,000 or 5,000 a volume before the anime aired.
Zom 100 was lucky to sell 4,000 on a good day.
Insomniacs After School was around 8,000.
KnY was in Jump's good ol 30k club along with Zumo, Samon, and dancing midgets (and depending who you ask should of stayed there). Tengoku was at best a 50k seller
I think Sumertime Rending was sold a little more then 10k on its last volume (ended before the anime aired).

 

[sasazuka]

I think there's more anime TV shows being produced now than in the 1980s and 1990s but the majority of the increase comprises late night anime that only air in single cour of 12 or 13 episodes.

Anime TV series in the 1980s and 1990s used to be usually 26 episodes at the minimum. I remember finding it weird that the first season of Magic Knight Rayearth was "only" 20 episodes.

Another key difference is that most modern late night anime TV series, if they had been produced in the 1980s and 1990s, would've been sold direct-to-video episode by episode as OVAs instead of being TV series.

If that chart had been "total half-hour episodes produced" instead of series and had included OVAs, the length of the lines for each year in the 1980s and 1990s would probably be much closer to the length of the lines for recent years.

 

[ZMOT]

Frankly, I think anime has just reached the point of market oversaturation. Too much anime is being made by too many studios, and the vast majority is made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Nobody wants to put in the time and effort to actually fully adapt a long running series unless its a Shonen with a large amount of success, nor does anyone want to back an original property over the long term.

I think it's more down to how markets work. "successful" adaptions get the full run (or at least to a certain point), but it depends how successful it is. combine that how long it takes to actually do an anime... imagine you dump money into 3-5 seasons of an anime no one wants to see or doesn't make anyone pick up the source material (and at least a short run has the chance that anyone who enjoyed it will now keep reading it for more of the story and characters).

I agree with this sentiment - scrolling through countless isekai slop when checking out a new season’s releases is a grim experience. But I think that a lot of this is down to the 80-20 rule that 80% of all media is shit, and of the remaining 20% only a portion of that is truly great. It’s easy to look back at the classics and lament a better time, but you’re also forgetting much of that era’s 80% which didn’t stand the test of time.

isekai is just an easy plot device half the time, think I ranted about that a while back in this thread, so don't wanna regurgitate that. it's also popular as a "what if" and/or wish fulfillment, same as a lot of other works. and fads are fads, I still remember a lot of whining about "nothing but moeshit" around/after 2010...

My pet peeve about modern anime is that they censor stuff that is otherwise completely fine to appear in the published mangas, between nudity, violence or disturbing themes.
For example, even if it's drawn as a lighthearted joke in the manga, the anime of BokuYaba can't have the MC's autistic violent delusions or him calling someone a bitch (the insult is replaced by "kuso onna" in the first anime episode).

View attachment 5254842
kuso onna.webm

anime being mainstream was a fucking mistake. most recent shit that grinds my gears is everyone celebrating how bocchi turned down the "fanservice", which most of those normalfag niggercattle wouldn't even fucking notice unless some shitty "top 20 things you didn't know about X" would literally shove it in their face...

 

[sasazuka]

most recent shit that grinds my gears is everyone celebrating how bocchi turned down the "fanservice",

It's not even that new a phenomenon, Kyoto Animation's 2009 K-On! adaptation toned down the fanservice from the manga, hence the famous "rice bowl" cutaway shot after Mio trips on stage in episode 6.

 

[Space Police]

most recent shit that grinds my gears is everyone celebrating how bocchi turned down the "fanservice"

To be fair, fanservice is why so many people hate anime. People such as Null think anime is nothing but CSAM cartoons for developmentally-stunted neckbeard coomers, which is a shame because there's lots of good anime without that stuff especially if you look back to 80s/90s anime, shoujo anime, and mecha/sci-fi anime.

But at the same time, they're right. Australia banned Sword Art Online, Eromanga Sensei, Dragonar Academy, and No Game No Life for sexually exploiting children. New Zealand banned High School DxD and Puni Puni Poemy for the same reason, though the latter has been unbanned. The last episode of Excel Saga contained pedophilia to intentionally make it unsuitable to broadcast on TV (but suitable to release on DVD). The creator of Ruroni Kenshin is still allowed to draw his manga despite having been caught with tons of CSAM. Made in Abyss is still incredibly popular despite having pedophilia and its creator being a highly likely pedo. Coomer pedo shows in general like Dragon Maid, Mushoku Tensei, and the Fate/ series (which is an adaptation of a gross porn game by the way) are some of the most popular anime out there.

It doesn't help that you can rarely come across an anime discussion without waifu sperging and hearing the words "best girl" somewhere, that trannies and incels (two groups with a higher tendency for pedophilia than the normal population) love anime, and that coomers watch anime as an extension of their hentai addictions.

Come to think of it, if you compare the worst anime ever released, to the worst western cartoons ever released, which would have done it the worse? As an example, what would be the anime version of Velma, or Kevin Smith's He-Man adaptation?

As far as I know neither Kevin Smith's MOTU nor Velma have pedophilia, which inherently makes them have more value than some of the most popular anime out there. If I could only choose between bad nostalgia-bait, race-swapped, spiteful Western cartoons made by Tumblrites who can barely draw or the most popular seasonal anime since 2010, I'd choose the former because I'd just be getting a soulless show instead of a soulless show made by and for coomers.

 

[Lone Star]

Can't quote your post @Sailor Troon, but Velma had a lot of bits sexualizing the high school characters.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I feel like there’s an a happy medium with portraying a character as the object of someone’s desires vs sexualizing that character to get the point across. Western media is as guilty as glorifying underage sex as Japan, but Japan has weird laws where they never outright banned CP until fairly recently (I think the US started at the end of the 70’s? when New York started getting cleaned up and there no longer was the peep show panopticon in Time’s Square).

Shit like Made in Abyss really treads the line between the subject matter is supposed to make you uncomfortable because the Abyss is hostile and those who live in it become monstrous or the author is a pedo who can rationalize his fetishes to serve the story.
The most recent chapters had the fucking amputee twins that Reg has to wash and that… that really, really was hard to read because even if I can entertain the purpose of the scene it still fucking makes your skin crawl.

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

Can't quote your post @Sailor Troon, but Velma had a lot of bits sexualizing the high school characters.

Yes.

To be fair, fanservice is why so many people hate anime. People such as Null think anime is nothing but CSAM cartoons for developmentally-stunted neckbeard coomers, which is a shame because there's lots of good anime without that stuff especially if you look back to 80s/90s anime, shoujo anime, and mecha/sci-fi anime.

But at the same time, they're right. Australia banned Sword Art Online, Eromanga Sensei, Dragonar Academy, and No Game No Life for sexually exploiting children. New Zealand banned High School DxD and Puni Puni Poemy for the same reason, though the latter has been unbanned. The last episode of Excel Saga contained pedophilia to intentionally make it unsuitable to broadcast on TV (but suitable to release on DVD). The creator of Ruroni Kenshin is still allowed to draw his manga despite having been caught with tons of CSAM. Made in Abyss is still incredibly popular despite having pedophilia and its creator being a highly likely pedo. Coomer pedo shows in general like Dragon Maid, Mushoku Tensei, and the Fate/ series (which is an adaptation of a gross porn game by the way) are some of the most popular anime out there.

It doesn't help that you can rarely come across an anime discussion without waifu sperging and hearing the words "best girl" somewhere, that trannies and incels (two groups with a higher tendency for pedophilia than the normal population) love anime, and that coomers watch anime as an extension of their hentai addictions.

You.

As far as I know neither Kevin Smith's MOTU nor Velma have pedophilia, which inherently makes them have more value than some of the most popular anime out there. If I could only choose between bad nostalgia-bait, race-swapped, spiteful Western cartoons made by Tumblrites who can barely draw or the most popular seasonal anime since 2010, I'd choose the former because I'd just be getting a soulless show instead of a soulless show made by and for coomers.

Can.

You just need to select the text in individual blocks, then hit "quote" or "reply" in the pop-up box that appears.

 

[BananaSplit²]

To be fair, fanservice is why so many people hate anime. People such as Null think anime is nothing but CSAM cartoons for developmentally-stunted neckbeard coomers, which is a shame because there's lots of good anime without that stuff especially if you look back to 80s/90s anime, shoujo anime, and mecha/sci-fi anime.

But at the same time, they're right. Australia banned Sword Art Online, Eromanga Sensei, Dragonar Academy, and No Game No Life for sexually exploiting children. New Zealand banned High School DxD and Puni Puni Poemy for the same reason, though the latter has been unbanned. The last episode of Excel Saga contained pedophilia to intentionally make it unsuitable to broadcast on TV (but suitable to release on DVD). The creator of Ruroni Kenshin is still allowed to draw his manga despite having been caught with tons of CSAM. Made in Abyss is still incredibly popular despite having pedophilia and its creator being a highly likely pedo. Coomer pedo shows in general like Dragon Maid, Mushoku Tensei, and the Fate/ series (which is an adaptation of a gross porn game by the way) are some of the most popular anime out there.

It doesn't help that you can rarely come across an anime discussion without waifu sperging and hearing the words "best girl" somewhere, that trannies and incels (two groups with a higher tendency for pedophilia than the normal population) love anime, and that coomers watch anime as an extension of their hentai addictions.

There are so many things wrong with this post that I can't decide which part is worse:
-Thinking "so many people hate anime" for the fanservice (certainly not in my country at least)
-Using Null as a reference when his knowledge on the subject is virtually null (and he's not gonna change his opinions but as long as he doesn't start a witchhunt, I'm fine with it).
-Being ignorant that old anime was a lot more casual on nudity and violence.
-Being upset that japanese media aimed at teenagers, and late teens, has fanservice of characters that aren't hags.
-Ever using the term of "sexually exploited" for drawings.
-Letting Internet to become every facet of your life to the point you let random groups as the decisive factor to enjoy yourself any entertainment.

 

[ZMOT]

Using Null as a reference when his knowledge on the subject is virtually null (and he's not gonna change his opinions but as long as he doesn't start a witchhunt, I'm fine with it).

to be fair, he was kind dumb once he noticed the vtuber thread, but after some people explained it to him he walked it back (don't get me wrong, I understand why he reacted the way he did, I simply highly disagree with the how), so he is able to change his mind luckily.
I've seen too many people go full retard in their pursuit of being "anti" to the point they turn into bigger retards than what they are against, don't wanna see n00l go down this road.

Being ignorant that old anime was a lot more casual on nudity and violence.

not just old anime, look what was got (and gets) produced in europe, it would blow most anglos fucking mind.

New albums are among the bestselling French-language comics, with 330,000 copies for the latest one.[1]

 

[Tarka Dhal]

not just old anime, look what was got (and gets) produced in europe, it would blow most anglos fucking mind.

Can confirm. Petit Spirou is a completely acceptable children’s comic in France; you’ll find issues in school libraries. Hell, it’s a part of a whole subgenre of comics about horny kids.

Then there’s the Wakfu cartoon which got some attention a while back when the lineart for a bath scene came out, revealing that beneath the censors the women were drawn with nipples and pubic hair stylised to match their hairstyle. Wakfu, and its predecessor, Dofus, are extremely popular French MMOs that many kids grew up with.

 

[Registration]

Fate/ series (which is an adaptation of a gross porn game by the way)

No, retard. Calling fate/ a porn game is to call every movie with sex scenes a pornographic movie. You get 1 hour of sex scenes of 80 hours of the normal content of the game.

The problem is that anglos/americans as usual have their skewered vision of nudity, tilitation and sex as something bad because they have their origins as insane christian retards when the rest of the world treats with normality the human body and actions like sex.

That would be weird and all, but americans in particular are even weirder because they are fine with blood, violence and guts but shy away from even showing nipples in painting without censoring. And then, they think the world is wrong and they are right for some reason.

Tl:dr ignore american and anglos takes on anything about nudity/sex/tilitation, they are weird.

@ZMOT

Americans being shocked at spirou is something that I can expect. But what really would be fun is to put some works by Bastien Vives like Le petit paul in muricans libraries just for shit and giggles.

The shock would be quite funny, even more when they can't realize it is a big joke and not something to be taken seriously.

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

I never got why people hate sexual fanservice but are perfectly okay with watching videos of people dying or getting beat up and over the top gore. I would think that is much more egregious since violence is kinda barbaric (unless the person deserves it) and sex is just a part of life. It's one thing to not like children (real or fictional) in sexual situations, but if a hot woman is looking sexy, I'm not looking the other way or calling it weird whether she's real or not (although if the artstyle is shit, I might look away because of that).

Some of the best anime I've seen are full of fanservice: Gurren Lagann, GiTS (especially that lesbian orgy scene in the manga), Iria, The Legend of Black Heaven, etc. There's nothing wrong with a little TnA so long as it's not the only thing your anime/manga has. That's more of a sin than just having ass n' titties.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

No, retard. Calling fate/ a porn game is to call every movie with sex scenes a pornographic movie. You get 1 hour of sex scenes of 80 hours of the normal content of the game.

No, retard, Fate was originally released as an eroge in Japan. Eroge is short for "erotic game". Ergo, it's porn because the sex in Fate was shoe-horned in to guarantee sales because sex sells.

 

[Registration]

No, retard, Fate was originally released as an eroge in Japan. Eroge is short for "erotic game". Ergo, it's porn because the sex in Fate was shoe-horned in to guarantee sales because sex sells.

No, retard. Fate was released as an CERO Z game, not an eroge, the ratings for subsequent releases are CERO C. The sex content that upped the rating was altered and so the rating got lower. And we are talking about a difference of 2 years between the original release and the ps2 one.

But this doesn't mean that because it has sex it becomes an adult game, lets use tsukihime for example:

The new game doesnt have any sex scenes, but is still rated CERO Z, because of the violence which is way stonger than SN since it is depicted visually instead of just text.

And even the "sex was shoe-horned in" is false, since both heaven's feel anime and manga presents the version of the original release and not the ps2 version. The sex scenes in the first route is the only one where it doesnt fit in. The rest are crucial to the story and setting.

And even then, eroge term was never once used by type-moon, they always used the term visual novel.
You can search in their archive news from 2003 and see not a single mention of eroge

http://www.typemoon.com/information/html/index_2003.html

Even in this interview before the ps2 release, they call it an adventure video game

https://dengekionline.com/soft/interview/fate/

So by primary sources and common fucking sense, fate/stay night was never an eroge. It is and was always a visual novel with sex scenes in the PC version of the game.

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

No, retard. Fate was released as an CERO Z game, not an eroge, the ratings for subsequent releases are CERO C. The sex content that upped the rating was altered and so the rating got lower. And we are talking about a difference of 2 years between the original release and the ps2 one.

But this doesn't mean that because it has sex it becomes an adult game, lets use tsukihime for example:

The new game doesnt have any sex scenes, but is still rated CERO Z, because of the violence which is way stonger than SN since it is depicted visually instead of just text.

View attachment 5257435

And even the "sex was shoe-horned in" is false, since both heaven's feel anime and manga presents the version of the original release and not the ps2 version. The sex scenes in the first route is the only one where it doesnt fit in. The rest are crucial to the story and setting.

And even then, eroge term was never once used by type-moon, they always used the term visual novel.
You can search in their archive news from 2003 and see not a single mention of eroge

http://www.typemoon.com/information/html/index_2003.html

Even in this interview before the ps2 release, they call it an adventure video game

https://dengekionline.com/soft/interview/fate/

So by primary sources and common fucking sense, fate/stay night was never an eroge. It is and was always a visual novel with sex scenes in the PC version of the game.

The sex scenes literally make it an eroge game. You can argue the PS2 version isn't since they removed the sex scenes to make it CERO C (Ages 15+) from Z (Ages 18+), but if there are a considerable amount of sex scenes with no censorship, it's an eroge. I don't even know why you are arguing about this. Eroges aren't really a hard (lol) genre like ARPGs or FPSes. A game can be a eroge and an adventure/first-person shooter/tactical role-playing game. It really is not that hard to comprehend.