Anime/Manga - Discuss Japanese cartoons and comics here; NO CULTURE WAR DOOMPOSTING!

[Kari Kamiya]

(which is notable since the plot deviates from the original series: In the show, Shinji decides to become part of human instrumentality, whereas in EoE, he refuses that).

Shinji still rejected it in the TV ending, thus why everyone's congratulating him (arguably, that could be "These are the friends in Shinji's mind" and it's truly not like Asuka and Gendo to congratulate him on anything, but all two episodes were taking place in his head, so...). "My [sucky and painful] life is worth living!" shows individuality than "This is the Shinji in your mind". It's more simplistic and cutesier than seeing clips of the real world as Shinji questions if that is his reality or one of the other possibilities, all while Rei tells him that as individuals, people who open their hearts (drop their AT Field) will feel pain and fear around others and Shinji goes "It'll be fine." (Also at the end of the episode, one of the black cards says "Goodbye, Mother", which is still what happens to Yui in EoE. If Shinji had accepted Instrumentality, Yui wouldn't have left.)

But it really is not helped that, due to (time) restrictions, we could only get Shinji's thoughts and his decision to reject Instrumentality. Given that Asuka shows up at the end of EoE, she, too, had her own will to be an individual, but we only have like glimpses of it in the movie itself, it's still all through Shinji's perspective in the end. It's still heavily implied that people will come back from the LCL sea if they, as individuals, will it to, so that'd have been an interesting thing to see how it is someone like Misato or Toji could come to the same decision to come back.

Though now if Shinji just accepted Instrumentality, then what exactly happens? Everything passes to a peaceful, eternal sleep of nothingness? The circle of life starts over again and we get an entirely new Adam and Lilith? Humanity just ceases to exist because they implode in on themselves? What about Eva Unit 01? Do it, too, cease to exist?

(I'm sure this and more were questioned and answered in fan fics but lol I'm not going to swim through those to find them. Maybe there's a "what if" discussion thread somewhere.)

and in case anyone wonders what this huge wall of text is all about, this is what happens when someone mentiones NGE on an anime board...

Wouldn't have it any other way tbh, as long as it stays civil.

 

[Judge Holden]

Evangelion is the best gundam

 

[aqua sama]

evangelion ruined anime.

 

[Coster]

Evangelion is the best gundam

The best Gundam is G Gundam.

 

[Judge Holden]

evangelion ruined anime.

Evangelion didnt ruin anime....
...fucking POLIO did

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

Evangelion is the best gundam

Gunpla is the best Gundam

evangelion ruined anime.

Bret Hart didn’t scr-I mean Evangelion didn’t ruin anime, anime ruined anime.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Shinji still rejected it in the TV ending, thus why everyone's congratulating him (arguably, that could be "These are the friends in Shinji's mind" and it's truly not like Asuka and Gendo to congratulate him on anything, but all two episodes were taking place in his head, so...).

The TV ending is Shinji coming to terms with his own fears and lack of confidence and accepting his (and other's flaws) and thus connecting to them. That's what all the other characters congratulate him for, that he realizes that he doesn't need a reason to be around other people other than being himself (something that he struggles with all throughout the show). Moreso, he realizes that he needs to connect to others.
Since everyone else is coming to terms with themselves, it's a given that even Asuka and Gendo would welcome Shinji.
In EoE, Rei rejects Gendo and he doesn't become part of human instrumentality (that's what the little scene with him and Eva-01 is about).

Though now if Shinji just accepted Instrumentality, then what exactly happens? Everything passes to a peaceful, eternal sleep of nothingness? The circle of life starts over again and we get an entirely new Adam and Lilith? Humanity just ceases to exist because they implode in on themselves?

Afaik, the whole mess started when two different types of "creators" landed on earth. First it was Adam, bearing the seed of life (and creating the Angels), but then Lilith crashlanded on Earth, too. This caused Adam to become dormant while Lilith's seed of life created life as we know it. However due to Adam's creation and the crash landing, Lilith's work turned out to be fragmented (ie: many species of lifeforms) and imperfect. Evolution is essentially the attempt to attain this lost perfection, but due to the fragmented state of lifeforms, it is unreachable.
The human instrumentality project searches to bridge that gap and by doing so, humanity ceases to exist (like any other living being), but their minds merge into one network, possibly not just a hivemind, but one larger combined mind. Wouldn't surprise me if this would create some giant being like Lilith or Adam in the end, too.
The question is: Is the giant LCL lake just the first step in reorganizing everybodies mind or is that the end goal?

 

[Kari Kamiya]

The TV ending is Shinji coming to terms with his own fears and lack of confidence and accepting his (and other's flaws) and thus connecting to them. That's what all the other characters congratulate him for, that he realizes that he doesn't need a reason to be around other people other than being himself (something that he struggles with all throughout the show). Moreso, he realizes that he needs to connect to others.

Oh, derp, that's right.

Thus why he tells Rei that it's fine for people to connect through fear and pain in EoE, 'cause he came to this realization. I also noticed that his experience in Instrumentality really does differ in the TV series compared to the movie, the TV ending really was more cutesy in comparison. It bombarded more questions at him, but in the movie, he was being confronted with it more personally, especially at a sexual level, but both versions still have him come to the same conclusion, albeit worded differently.

In EoE, Rei rejects Gendo and he doesn't become part of human instrumentality (that's what the little scene with him and Eva-01 is about).

I thought Gendo still was part of it, since the whole reason he went through it was to be reunited with Yui, but he had to go through his own retribution first. 'Course he had also rejected SEELE on top of that, so he probably wasn't going to turn to LCL like with the others, at least not at the time.

Maybe Gendo was the metaphor for the Fall of Man, therefore he couldn't become one with humanity?

The question is: Is the giant LCL lake just the first step in reorganizing everybodies mind or is that the end goal?

I thought that was just the primordial soup, so therefore upon returning to life's origins, they could begin anew from square one? SEELE's planning comes off as a little short-sighted, tbh. Like they were all wanting that sweet embrace of death (to be freed from their physical bodies), but they wanted to be connected with everyone so they could be at peace, or feel loved? Did they think they'd ever come back to life in the end, even if it's not as themselves, or did no one exactly know of what would happen at the end of the day but just loved the idea regardless? I dunno, from what Yui said at the end of EoE, because Eva existed, it's proof humanity existed, so if the Eva Unit was to never be freed, the universe would have never known of their efforts? Or at least, not of that world's efforts, anyway?

...but that would mean every other planet in the universe would have their own Adam and Lilith, and therefore their own Third Impact and Instrumentality project... so there'd have to have been at least one other planet that'd have rejected it?

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I thought Gendo still was part of it, since the whole reason he went through it was to be reunited with Yui, but he had to go through his own retribution first. 'Course he had also rejected SEELE on top of that, so he probably wasn't going to turn to LCL like with the others, at least not at the time.

Doesn't Gendo say something along the lines of "So this is my punishment?" before being eaten by Eva-01? That would imply that he's not going to get absorbed like everybody else.

It's clear Rei rejects him when after he puts Adam's feotus-like form inside her body (seriously, I never caught that he loses his right hand in the process up till recently), but his ultimate fate stays vague. It's possible that he gets absorbed like all the others (after all, various dead characters get absorbed, too).
It just seems like a weird detour to make him Eva-Chow and then just have him join the LCL-lake like everyone else anyway.

Maybe Gendo was the metaphor for the Fall of Man, therefore he couldn't become one with humanity?

That's an interesting idea and even if that wasn't intentional, it would still be an interesting interpretation.

SEELE's planning comes off as a little short-sighted, tbh. Like they were all wanting that sweet embrace of death (to be freed from their physical bodies), but they wanted to be connected with everyone so they could be at peace, or feel loved? Did they think they'd ever come back to life in the end, even if it's not as themselves, or did no one exactly know of what would happen at the end of the day but just loved the idea regardless?

I think it's implied that they see humanity (and Earth as a whole) not only in a deadend but actually on a path to self-destruction.
Their motivation is the most vague in the entire show/movie, I'd say. They want the 3rd Impact, but they try to prevent Gendo from doing it?
I assume they got wind of his plans to screw with it in order to be reunited with Yui and got lucky that Rei rejects Gendo in the end.

I once read a theory that the Anti-Spiral from TTGL are actually humanity from NGE a couple millenia in the future.
The theory is sort of flawed, tbh, but it's still an intriguing idea.
It would make the big threat the Anti-Spiral talk about the creators of Adam and Lilith.

...but that would mean every other planet in the universe would have their own Adam and Lilith, and therefore their own Third Impact and Instrumentality project... so there'd have to have been at least one other planet that'd have rejected it?

Usually, a planet only gets one creator "Seed of Life" thingy and Earth is just incredibly unlucky to get hit by two.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Doesn't Gendo say something along the lines of "So this is my punishment?" before being eaten by Eva-01? That would imply that he's not going to get absorbed like everybody else.

...It's possible that he gets absorbed like all the others (after all, various dead characters get absorbed, too).
It just seems like a weird detour to make him Eva-Chow and then just have him join the LCL-lake like everyone else anyway.

Yeah, he wonders if it's his punishment, and he readily accepts it 'cause he had apparently been preparing himself for it for years. Still, I think the real mindfuckery here is that him being eaten by the Eva was like an illusion (or perhaps it truly was Instrumentality in the works), and yet he literally loses his head. So did one of the Rei clones who were there to witness it do it, or did his head explode?

I think it's implied that they see humanity (and Earth as a whole) not only in a deadend but actually on a path to self-destruction.
Their motivation is the most vague in the entire show/movie, I'd say. They want the 3rd Impact, but they try to prevent Gendo from doing it?
I assume they got wind of his plans to screw with it in order to be reunited with Yui and got lucky that Rei rejects Gendo in the end.

That sounds like how I remember it. They were quite pissed at Gendo for throwing the Lance of Longinus out of orbit because it put a halt to their plans, and I think that's what got them to speed up the Eva production. I also think they had a spy working at NERV who was giving them this information, or they're just that well-informed over what was going on.

I once read a theory that the Anti-Spiral from TTGL are actually humanity from NGE a couple millenia in the future.
The theory is sort of flawed, tbh, but it's still an intriguing idea.
It would make the big threat the Anti-Spiral talk about the creators of Adam and Lilith.

Well, apparently Simon was created to be one of the "what if" incarnations of Shinji, so I could believe it.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Since we’re talking EVA, I always loved this little bonus on the original last DVD of the series.

Shinzo has finally had enough.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

No matter how much we may like or dislike Evangelion, I think we can all agree the memes and parodies are best thing about the series.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

No matter how much we may like or dislike Evangelion, I think we can all agree the memes and parodies are best thing about the series.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QyIpijrLlcM

Or the romcom spin-offs

 

[RepQuest]

I don't know if anyone has ever seen an anime show titled "Kaiba". I did a search, and the only references that came back were for that Yu-gi-oh, or whatever it is, here on the farms. I'm not a huge fan of anime, but this show along with Sailor Moon are my faves.

Kaiba is very different, the animation is very cartoonish, but the storyline is deep, way deeper and darker than most shows. For some reason, it goes unnoticed a lot, but every single episode makes me cry. It's got drama, love stories, and terrorism all presented in cartoonish/wanky animation that makes it more presentable. The storyline is very futuristic but very relatable and revolves around memories implanted into sold bodies.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BF8xDEhkp04

Kaiba is one of my favorite shows and still my favorite Yuasa work. It gets a lot of criticism for the storyline in the last few episodes, but that was actually one of my favorite parts.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

Kaiba is one of my favorite shows and still my favorite Yuasa work. It gets a lot of criticism for the storyline in the last few episodes, but that was actually one of my favorite parts.

It sucks, I know it was a one time piece of art, but it would work great with at least two seasons. I really wish there were more like it.

 

[Sigma]

A new Aggretsuko series was released on Netflix a few days ago. What do you think about it?

 

[Kari Kamiya]

A new Aggretsuko series was released on Netflix a few days ago. What do you think about it?

I'm only halfway through it, but I like it. It feels a little weird that each episode is like 15 minutes long compared to the one-minute series of shorts, but it's not as repetitive. And as it's basically just expanding on things from the shorts, I'm actually debating which version would be best for newcomers to watch. The show's still not something to binge-watch, though.

How's the dub for it, anyway? I haven't touched it yet, but I'm curious as to how it worked out.

 

[Sigma]

I'm only halfway through it, but I like it. It feels a little weird that each episode is like 15 minutes long compared to the one-minute series of shorts, but it's not as repetitive. And as it's basically just expanding on things from the shorts, I'm actually debating which version would be best for newcomers to watch. The show's still not something to binge-watch, though.

How's the dub for it, anyway? I haven't touched it yet, but I'm curious as to how it worked out.

I've tried out a few different dubs of it because it's easy to swap between them and they seem fine enough? I've watched more of the French one because I noticed the English version dropped the quiet monotone-esque voice that the MC originally usually had. I'm not the greatest judge of it though because I pretty much only speak English.

 

[Stay safe]

As happy as I am that Hathaway's Flash is finally getting an anime, this is the worst possible time to animate a series that tackles subjects like illegal immigration and terrorism. Hopefully the Gundam fanbase doesn't have too many SJWs and Alt-Rigjters.

 

[Coster]

Spoiler: New Berserk chapter

Cool Miura, I didn't want to see Casca and Guts' reunion anyway. I can't wait for a year and a half to go by before we switch back to Team Hero. Even then I'm being optimistic and assuming we won't hit another hiatus.