Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

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LORD IMPERATOR said:
And the fact that there are probably dozens of other talented entertainers out there who didn't get the job because they had a sense of dignity.
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I like to think that most of the Disney and the nickledon stars who didn't become big like Miley Cyrus, Zendya or Ariana granda are the ones who had a sense of dignity.
 
I sometimes find that the show has a kid's level of understanding about some things. Like that scene in Buckingham Palace in the second episode, where some security guard in the previous episode throws shade at the Brits for having such a lavish palace for their royal family.

"It's not about rooms. It's about power. That building has one purpose: to say that I'm the Queen, and you are my subjects. The queen might look like a nice old lady, but she comes from a long line of tyrants, who all thought they were better than the rest of us."

No, that building's purpose is to showcase the power and the glory of both the crown and the nation. To show Britain's commoners that they have something to be proud of. That they're capable of creating great artistic monuments that can compete with the likes of Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome, the Palace of Versailles in France, or the Forbidden City in China. It's not about the British monarchy just being drama queens and lording over the peons-it's about national pride and glory.

The same goes for the whole "Viltrumite Empire" reveal that Nolan springs on Mark at the end of the season. Mark doesn't even ask what will happen to the humans once Viltrum takes over. I mean, sure, if the humans are going to be used as organic batteries, get slaughtered down to a few, or be worked to death as slaves in mines, then yes, fighting them to your last breath is the only option. But what if that's not what they will do? When Nolan took over some bug species after he left Earth, he just rules over them as a king, preparing to get them to join the Empire by choice. He doesn't bully them or enslave them to do shit for him, he just rules them as an aloof overlord. They only did that whole "purge the weak" thing to themselves, then when Nolan took over the bug-people, he just rules them as an overlord, he doesn't cull their weak or something:


What if Viltrum took over Earth, and the only things that change are oaths and taxes? What if, in exchange for allegiance, the Viltrumites continue to let the humans live their lives in peace and even give them some Viltrumite technology to improve their lives? Nolan already promised Mark that the Viltrumites would give the humans medical technology centuries ahead of their time, aside from ending war and hunger.

Heck, at least Transformers 3 told us what the Decepticon Empire would be doing with their human slaves: they're going to put them to work rebuilding Cybertron.

I just wish the show went into depth as to what the Viltrumites would do to the humans once they submitted to Viltrum's rule. Have Allen tell Mark what happened to his race and why they revolted against Viltrum rule, to the point where the Viltrumites destroyed their planet. Maybe the Viltrumites were such oppressive rulers that Allen's people HAD to rebel even though the odds were against them. Because from what Nolan told Mark, it seems that the Earth would benefit from Viltrum's rule, and be spared the utter holocaust of what would happen if the Viltrum Empire were to invade it by force instead.

For all we know, THIS could be Viltrum's endgame for humanity once they take over:

 
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LORD IMPERATOR said:
I sometimes find that the show has a kid's level of understanding about some things. Like that scene in Buckingham Palace in the second episode, where some security guard in the previous episode throws shade at the Brits for having such a lavish palace for their royal family.

"It's not about rooms. It's about power. That building has one purpose: to say that I'm the Queen, and you are my subjects. The queen might look like a nice old lady, but she comes from a long line of tyrants, who all thought they were better than the rest of us."

No, that building's purpose is to showcase the power and the glory of both the crown and the nation. To show Britain's commoners that they have something to be proud of. That they're capable of creating great artistic monuments that can compete with the likes of Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome, the Palace of Versailles in France, or the Forbidden City in China. It's not about the British monarchy just being drama queens and lording over the peons-it's about national pride and glory.

The same goes for the whole "Viltrumite Empire" reveal that Nolan springs on Mark at the end of the season. Nolan doesn't even ask what will happen to the humans once Viltrum takes over. I mean, sure, if the humans are going to be used as organic batteries, get slaughtered down to a few, or be worked to death as slaves in mines, then yes, fighting them to your last breath is the only option. But what if that's not what they will do? When Nolan took over some bug species after he left Earth, he just rules over them as a king, preparing to get them to join the Empire by choice. He doesn't bully them or enslave them to do shit for him, he just rules them as an aloof overlord. They only did that whole "purge the weak" thing to themselves, then when Nolan took over the bug-people, he just rules them as an overlord, he doesn't cull their weak or something:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YchrvKG5-UE
What if Viltrum took over Earth, and the only things that change are oaths and taxes? What if, in exchange for allegiance, the Viltrumites continue to let the humans live their lives in peace and even give them some Viltrumite technology to improve their lives? Nolan already promised Mark that the Viltrumites would give the humans medical technology centuries ahead of their time, aside from ending war and hunger.

Heck, at least Transformers 3 told us what the Decepticon Empire would be doing with their human slaves: they're going to put them to work rebuilding Cybertron.

I just wish the show went into depth as to what the Viltrumites would do to the humans once they submitted to Viltrum's rule. Have Allen tell Mark what happened to his race and why they revolted against Viltrum rule, to the point where the Viltrumites destroyed their planet. Maybe the Viltrumites were such oppressive rulers that Allen's people HAD to rebel even though the odds were against them. Because from what Nolan told Mark, it seems that the Earth would benefit from Viltrum's rule, and be spared the utter holocaust of what would happen if the Viltrum Empire were to invade it by force instead.

For all we know, THIS could be Viltrum's endgame for humanity once they take over:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WLxUBymphbA
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I don’t think it really needs to be elaborated upon unless you’re specifically trying to do a subversion of the “evil alien overlords” thing, because in our media it’s almost universally accepted that “alien takeover = bad, human sovereignty = good”. If the invading aliens don’t have hostile intent and merely want to “improve” humans they’ll often be framed as holier-than-thou pricks who have no right to tell us how to live. The idea of “alien overlords bad” (which is likely just a metaphor for military occupation/colonization anyways) is so deeply ingrained in our culture that it really DOESN’T need to be questioned - it doesn’t matter WHAT plans Viltrum has for humanity, human freedom will always be preferable.
 
Gar For Archer said:
I don’t think it really needs to be elaborated upon unless you’re specifically trying to do a subversion of the “evil alien overlords” thing, because in our media it’s almost universally accepted that “alien takeover = bad, human sovereignty = good”. If the invading aliens don’t have hostile intent and merely want to “improve” humans they’ll often be framed as holier-than-thou pricks who have no right to tell us how to live. The idea of “alien overlords bad” (which is likely just a metaphor for military occupation/colonization anyways) is so deeply ingrained in our culture that it really DOESN’T need to be questioned - it doesn’t matter WHAT plans Viltrum has for humanity, human freedom will always be preferable.
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Tell that to all the voters today who vote in bigger governments to keep themselves safe. Freedom always gets sacrificed on the altar of safety and security. The fact that things like the Patriot Act and the creation of large surveillance states go about with barely a peep from the public goes to show everyone that humans will always choose safety over freedom.

Also, we've had plenty of empires like Rome and Spain where they just ruled over the peoples under their belt. And sometimes even improved upon the health and lives of their subjects. Quite literally, the big reason why more than half the world has working toilets and electricity is because they were colonized by some great Empire that brought modernized technology and education to them.
 
LORD IMPERATOR said:
Tell that to all the voters today who vote in bigger governments to keep themselves safe. Freedom always gets sacrificed on the altar of safety and security. The fact that things like the Patriot Act and the creation of large surveillance states go about with barely a peep from the public goes to show everyone that humans will always choose safety over freedom.

Also, we've had plenty of empires like Rome and Spain where they just ruled over the peoples under their belt. And sometimes even improved upon the health and lives of their subjects. Quite literally, the big reason why more than half the world has working toilets and electricity is because they were colonized by some great Empire that brought modernized technology and education to them.
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You’ve completely missed the point of what I said. This isn’t about authoritarianism vs. individualism, it’s about sovereignty against an invading foreign nation. You’d be hard-pressed to find a sovereign state that would WANT to be occupied if they had a choice in it - who the fuck is going to say “we’re totally fine with giving up the power to decide our own fates and let a foreign invader rule over us, they know how we should be living way better than we do!”
 
Gar For Archer said:
I don’t think it really needs to be elaborated upon unless you’re specifically trying to do a subversion of the “evil alien overlords” thing, because in our media it’s almost universally accepted that “alien takeover = bad, human sovereignty = good”. If the invading aliens don’t have hostile intent and merely want to “improve” humans they’ll often be framed as holier-than-thou pricks who have no right to tell us how to live. The idea of “alien overlords bad” (which is likely just a metaphor for military occupation/colonization anyways) is so deeply ingrained in our culture that it really DOESN’T need to be questioned - it doesn’t matter WHAT plans Viltrum has for humanity, human freedom will always be preferable.
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Like I said beforehand in my overly long sperging. The two problems here are that: A. Nolan could have put how it's good in a far better way rather than shit on everything he built for 18 years over the course of an afternoon. And B. The government in the show already appeared to be pretty corrupt and authoritarian so how are the Villurmite worse?
 
Gar For Archer said:
You’ve completely missed the point of what I said. This isn’t about authoritarianism vs. individualism, it’s about sovereignty against an invading foreign nation. You’d be hard-pressed to find a sovereign state that would WANT to be occupied if they had a choice in it - who the fuck is going to say “we’re totally fine with giving up the power to decide our own fates and let a foreign invader rule over us, they know how we should be living way better than we do!”
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If the foreigners are going to bring better tech and an end to war and hunger, most humans would be all for that. Every day people sacrifice freedom on the altar of security. You can keep your freedom and die tomorrow, and who would that benefit?

Most people today don't even know what freedom is. Most people who use a vague notion of freedom as their cause are usually full of shit. They're not fighting for a real greater good, but for a word that sounds nice. If they actually explained how bad the Viltrum Empire was, and how their slaves are treated like shit, that would make the story so much more believable.

And when Nolan took over that bug species and prepared them to join the Viltrum Empire, he didn't take away their freedom. He just rules them as an aloof overlord, he doesn't take away their freedom. So long as they didn't kill each other, and they recognized Nolan's rule, they were free to do whatever they wanted.

wtfNeedSignUp said:
Like I said beforehand in my overly long sperging. The two problems here are that: A. Nolan could have put how it's good in a far better way rather than shit on everything he built for 18 years over the course of an afternoon. And B. The government in the show already appeared to be pretty corrupt and authoritarian so how are the Villurmite worse?
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Exactly. Nolan could have made the case to humanity that Viltrumite rule would knock down on the constant supervillain attacks they suffer through, while improving their quality of life with better tech. That, and the government in the show has no problems creating a police state behind the scenes anyways, spending hundreds of billions of dollars on shit the public doesn't know about, which doesn't really make the argument of "human freedom" all that convincing unless you're one of those sci-fi guys who's all about human supremacy or something. Shit, the humans in Mass Effect for instance, bent the knee to an Alien Council which ruled over several alien empires, and life just continued as usual.
 
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Why did Nolan think that hiding incriminating evidence in his own house was a good idea? Bury it on the moon or something.

LORD IMPERATOR said:
If the foreigners are going to bring better tech and an end to war and hunger, most humans would be all for that. Every day people sacrifice freedom on the altar of security. You can keep your freedom and die tomorrow, and who would that benefit?

Most people today don't even know what freedom is. Most people who use a vague notion of freedom as their cause are usually full of shit. They're not fighting for a real greater good, but for a word that sounds nice. If they actually explained how bad the Viltrum Empire was, and how their slaves are treated like shit, that would make the story so much more believable.

And when Nolan took over that bug species and prepared them to join the Viltrum Empire, he didn't take away their freedom. He just rules them as an aloof overlord, he doesn't take away their freedom. So long as they didn't kill each other, and they recognized Nolan's rule, they were free to do whatever they wanted.


Exactly. Nolan could have made the case to humanity that Viltrumite rule would knock down on the constant supervillain attacks they suffer through, while improving their quality of life with better tech. That, and the government in the show has no problems creating a police state behind the scenes anyways, spending hundreds of billions of dollars on shit the public doesn't know about, which doesn't really make the argument of "human freedom" all that convincing unless you're one of those sci-fi guys who's all about human supremacy or something. Shit, the humans in Mass Effect for instance, bent the knee to an Alien Council which ruled over several alien empires, and life just continued as usual.
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The problem is that this is never how it works out in real life. When an advanced colonial power rolls into town, the locals don't say "wow, look at that medical tech, let's let them enslave us!". 99 times out of 100 they try to either fight or work out an alliance. Nobody wants to be conquered, and they tolerate that only if they have no other options.

Also Mass Effect is a bad example because
in that universe humanity did encounter an advanced alien empire, the Turians, which tried to conquer them, and humans fought back. Then the Asari/Salarians stepped in and forced the Turians to back down, and then they invited humanity to join Council/Citadel space, which is more of an "EU/NATO in space" than a single government.
 
FaramirG said:
Also Mass Effect is a bad example because
in that universe humanity did encounter an advanced alien empire, the Turians, which tried to conquer them, and humans fought back. Then the Asari/Salarians stepped in and forced the Turians to back down, and then they invited humanity to join Council/Citadel space, which is more of an "EU/NATO in space" than a single government.
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I like that in spite of the citadel and council, all of the races are divided by race and are each inherently ethnocentric in their behavior.
 
FaramirG said:
Why did Nolan think that hiding incriminating evidence in his own house was a good idea? Bury it on the moon or something.


The problem is that this is never how it works out in real life. When an advanced colonial power rolls into town, the locals don't say "wow, look at that medical tech, let's let them enslave us!". 99 times out of 100 they try to either fight or work out an alliance. Nobody wants to be conquered, and they tolerate that only if they have no other options.

Also Mass Effect is a bad example because
in that universe humanity did encounter an advanced alien empire, the Turians, which tried to conquer them, and humans fought back. Then the Asari/Salarians stepped in and forced the Turians to back down, and then they invited humanity to join Council/Citadel space, which is more of an "EU/NATO in space" than a single government.
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Cecil would've caught something if he went into space. Debbie had absolute trust in Nolan before Darkblood. Nolan himself says he might've wanted her to find it. Didn't really matter since Cecil already knew it was him. Debbie finding out and rejecting Nolan was the primary accelerating factor.
losing your asian pet waifu would be hard on any space alien conqueror
 
God of Nothing said:
Cecil would've caught something if he went into space. Debbie had absolute trust in Nolan before Darkblood. Nolan himself says he might've wanted her to find it. Didn't really matter since Cecil already knew it was him. Debbie finding out and rejecting Nolan was the primary accelerating factor.
losing your asian pet waifu would be hard on any space alien conqueror
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Especially since last time he let her find something it was a leash attached to a collar with her name on it.
 
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