Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

[SiccDicc]

Honestly the way people go on about the comics the show was destined to be a disappointment to begin with. None of the characters seem particularly likeable - even believable from a rational standpoint - and it just comes off like YIIK as a comic.

That said, I didn't read or watch Invincible, so take my complaints with a grain of salt. Just seems like overrated shit to me from how people are explaining things.

 

[Polyboros2]

It was an ok watch, it feels like it uses the violence as a cover for an extremely bland take on "what if Superman was the bad guy". Maybe bland is the wrong word, I just feel like I enjoyed watching it but will never think of it again.

 

[Chilson]

It was an ok watch, it feels like it uses the violence as a cover for an extremely bland take on "what if Superman was the bad guy". Maybe bland is the wrong word, I just feel like I enjoyed watching it but will never think of it again.

Its very surface level stuff. There really isn't much to it beyond "what if superman was the bad guy"? There is no subtlety or attempt to make it an actual character study of Omni-man or invincible. Its just "omni-man bad, invincible good" mixed with edgy shit that is ultimately pointless and goes nowhere with the characters.

 

[Rupin]

Invincible is an Amazon Prime animated adaption of a comic of the same name. The series focuses on the coming-of-age of Mark Grayson, son of Nolan Grayson (known as OmniMan, roughly analogous to Superman and the most powerful superhero on Earth), who receives his superpowers at the beginning of the series shortly after he turns 17. The show is another attempt in the increasingly popular subgenre of portraying superheroes as immoral, violent assholes.

I'll preface this by saying I don't like the superhero genre. I also find most of Invincible's characters are obnoxiously written, have terrible forced dialogue, and are generally unlikable or boring. However I overall liked the show. Why? Solely because of OmniMan, who is voiced by JK Simmons and carries the entire series.

Without spoiling too much, OmniMan is an archetypal hardass father who views strength as the highest virtue. The only method of learning or growth is through extreme violence. The show will often meander into insignificant teen drama among other, frankly, unlikable and naive superheroes. OmniMan contrasts other character's awkward insecurity with extreme unrelenting confidence and drive towards his mysterious motivations and goals.

The first couple episodes are alright, the middle isn't good, and the ending is pretty good. The show has been renewed for 2 more seasons.
invincible.mp4

anyways, thoughts?

they shoehorned a lot of SJW crap into the show by making the best friend gay and race swapping a few of the characters while really adding nothing of value to the story, but other than that I really enjoyed the show and am looking forward to watching more episodes.

the voice acting is A+! J.K. simmons really carries the show and I would have never guessed that Art is voiced by Mark Hammil.

 

[Drain Todger]

Oh god. Why do I despise everyone in this except for Omni-Man? Why is William's voice like fingernails on a chalkboard, and who the fuck talks like that, anyway, with their word stress and intonation jumping up and down like a psycho?

I just want Omni-Man to kill everyone, so badly. Just, everyone. Fuck Earth. Let the cockroaches have it.

 

[verissimus]

You know, now that I think about it, I feel like the overall story and direction could have benefitted more trying to go the route the Venture Bros. did. I could totally see a few of the characters (or something akin to them) hanging out with the Monarch like Machine Head.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Oh god. Why do I despise everyone in this except for Omni-Man? Why is William's voice like fingernails on a chalkboard, and who the fuck talks like that, anyway, with their word stress and intonation jumping up and down like a psycho?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=hfNo3TpFOxo:220
I just want Omni-Man to kill everyone, so badly. Just, everyone. Fuck Earth. Let the cockroaches have it.

Because outside of the Guardians, whom Omni-Man kills in the opening episode, the rest of them feel more like whiny brats instead of real heroes? That even in his worst, Omni-Man still feels like a real man and a real hero, just one that's gone off the deep end?

 

[Calandrino]

jmo but I feel like this Invader Zim reboot strayed too far from the source

 

[Chilson]

jmo but I feel like this Invader Zim reboot strayed too far from the source

uh...are you lost?

 

[Calandrino]

So, perhaps Kirkman can do for Evil Superman stories what he's done for zombies? I mean, kill the trend and render the subject matter radioactive.

Kirkman jumped on at the height of the zombie trend, copy-pasted straight from the Living Dead and 28 Days Later movies, added a bit of additional shock value, and now everybody is sick of it. And we've already had: the Znyderverse, Brightburn, Iredeemable (comic), Superman and Lois (hinted), Injustice, Justice League: Gods and Monsters, Justice League: Worlds Collide, even the Justice League cartoon, and Superman: The Animated Series before it and even Batman Beyond, both animated adaptations of Death of Superman have evil counterparts to Superman, and who knows how many others even in the past decade. It's an obligatory part of every Superman story and deconstructions of Superman outnumber homages like 20:1 at this point. Invincible even skips over all the musing about power corrupting or whatever and gives Omniman a stock supervillain motivation.

In fact Omniman seems to be aware that he's a Superman pastiche: it's the only apparent reason for him to pose as a boyscout for 20 years, even to his own family. I guess he spent 20 years studying Earth's weaknesses and gaining the world's trust only to bulldoze everybody with no real plan or anything. "Yeah some dude beat me up and killed the Justice League, didn't get a good look at him sorry. Please don't dust for prints or anything". Still like the guy; he's a throwback to the evil white guys of 2000-2010, i.e. he's powerful and intelligent rather than a weak and stupid punching bag for diversity hires. And he's played by somebody making an effort, instead of a Reddit meme actor sight-reading the script, like a few others I could name.

Way back on JLU, JK Simmons gave a similar kind of supervillain speech:

Honestly I talk some shit but it's still possibly the best animated superhero series since JLU went off the air, and better than almost all of DC's godawful animated movies. That is sadly a low bar to clear, but it deserves credit. It's well-paced, mostly not predictable, and not boring. I have to wonder what Bruce Timm thinks of this, and not just what he says he thinks, I want to catch the guy on a hot mic... Justice League: Gods and Monsters was killed off, but we get this. It's not fair, man.

Amber has got to be a product of the writers' passive-aggression, though. Like, the head rabbi at AmaZOG mandated that the Black Woman of Color be written as being in the right at all times, and they made her as unlikable as possible out of spite. Nothing else makes sense. In general all the characters have moral worth in inverse proportion to their "privilege", as is the trend. Looks-ism appears to be fighting a losing battle, as fat/ugly/bald is still visual shorthand for "asshole loser".

 

[Woke Blue Muttlema]

I feel that what happens with Amber is an issue of framing. I compared her to Skyler White in a previous post and that is because both are characters that get hate for being the SO of the protagonist. The Whites are complicated, flawed characters that have gray motivations. They do stupid shit but it is believable, specially Syler because she didn't have a say on the matter.

Compare that to Invincible. You have to bland goodies with no room for interpretation. Strong independent black woman that wants to study social justice and serves soup while knowing the name of every hobo and perfect Andrew Garfield "nerd" with superpowers. I could stand Amber until the last two episodes and that was because I could see where she was coming from, it was the reveal of her knowing Mark's identity and still being a bitch about it that made me scream at the telly. It doesn't help that Mark IS a terrible boyfriend but he makes things up and shows an obscene dedication to the relationship while Amber does jackshit. They fight while being in Uni, she goes to a frat party and refuses to talk to Mark. For how long did she know? Because if she found out like William did that makes shit worse. And then she returns to him while he received a beatdown, at this point, it would be better if they showed her refusing to see him to not feel worse.

The animation is ok, but it's anime ok. It pissed me off when I read an article that was advocating for Invincible over watching Jupiter's Legacy and one of the cons was because it is animation though. Peak retard.

If I am bitching about the voice acting is because is true. Mark Hammil is in this? I didn't notice. Can you say the same about half of the cast? The source material was modified so they could play themselves, which is especially noticeable with William and Amber. Get a load of that nepotism, half of the cast has voice credits as themselves. Is casting regular actors bad when it comes to voice acting? No, but this isn't like when Scooby-Doo had Vincent Price or Andre 3000 in Class of 3000. This is just better than The Lion King 2019, and that is a very low bar. Again, my bitchfit about comedians and tv actors playing themselves in animated sitcoms is not exclusive to this show. Bojack Horseman is arguably at fault for this trend. But Invincible is flexing its muscles about who they can bring to read lines.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I just want Omni-Man to kill everyone, so badly. Just, everyone. Fuck Earth. Let the cockroaches have it.

Disagree only because nothing on that Earth deserves to live including the cockroaches.

 

[Dave.]

I mean, if they were going for the emotional appeal working on Omni-Man, it would be a better sell for Omni-Man when Mark asks him about Debbie if Omni-Man said this:

Mark: "What about mom, dad? Do you love her?"

Omni-Man: "Yes, I do. Which is why I promised her that this world will finally find peace before she dies. The best thing that I can give to your mom before her short lifespan gives out is a world that no longer needs to fear hunger, war, or constant threats by supervillains. She will die one day, long before I will, and I've made peace with that. Nothing I can do will change that-I'm a Viltrumite who can live on for thousands of years, and she's a human who will die before she reaches 150. But I can at least make it so that when she dies, she can die happy and watch over us from the heavens, knowing that she leaves behind a world that has found peace before she left."

I'm just so floored that they didn't go this route. Especially when Omni-Man has been selling the idea of the Viltrumites taking over to Mark by saying that they'll get rid of war, poverty, disease, etc., so when Mark brings up the topic of his mom and Omni-Man's wife, Omni-Man can tell Mark that he's doing this FOR HER. That would shake Mark to his core, and create even more drama for Debbie, since she now has to live with the fact that her husband committed all these terrible crimes........because he loves her and wants to give her a world that knows peace. He loves her so much, that it hurts. And that would truly be hard-hitting, compelling drama, because Omni-Man's not doing this because he's a power-obsessed, amoral, apathetic shit, he's doing this because he genuinely loves his family and wants what's best for them.

Instead, they write in that he loves her like a pet, because IMPERIALISM BAD!

Yeah I noticed how pretty leftist his motivations were and how they probably aligned with the writer's, however, I do want to propose a defense:

Spoiler

Think about how we as humans regard something as insignificant. How do we regard animals or insects? Do we show them the same love we do for other humans? Yes and no, most certainly yes if we're talking about pets, but no if we're talking about something like spiders or mosquitos. Why do I bring this up? Put yourself in his perspective, you're an immortal god compared to literally anything that walks and talks on planet earth and these mortals only live for about 100 years while you live for 10 to 20 millenias. What perspective would you have then? These same mortals are also way more primal and backwards compared to you and they fight non-stop like animals. Again what perspective would you have then? We see in nature animals dominate and attack each other and kill and we just shrug it off because that's how life goes. Sometimes we see humans attack each other and we have a much more different connection to those humans because they share the same traits we do. Of course there's exceptions like someone might be a sociopath or they were stupid and fought over something dumb, but my point still stands.

Now let's shift that same outlook onto omni-man; omni-man WANTS to have these feelings for humanity and he wants to control them and conform them to his people's worldview, however, when he was spending time on earth, he grew a connection towards humanity and Debbie who then birthed a son and it was at that point he understood where humanity was coming from with their personal feelings towards each other. However, he still wanted to serve his people, but in order to do that he had to eliminate people who had more influence and would've provided a significant enough resistance to stop him (Guardians). So with that said, there was still that level of doubt within him and as Omni-man was beating Mark up, we can see that with that flashback sequence. So Omni-man was at a point of regret and self-reflection of his feelings towards humanity and mortals and when his son was close to death he saw that Mark was mortal or as mortal as humanity he grew attached to. "What will you have after 100 years?" That's not just a question he's asking Mark, he's asking himself that as well. He's also in a moment where he's thinking "All that time we spent, all that bonding we did, all that training we did, all for nothing. What the fuck have I done? My son hates me now, my relationship with Debbie is destroyed, and humanity sees me as an enemy." But then his son says, "I'd still have you" and that's when he realizes that his son, even after all he did and all the sins he committed on earth, still loved him. That at the point makes him realize the weight and consequences of his actions. So my interpretation when I first saw it was it was self-doubt and remorse (all human emotions) were hitting him and he suddenly realized what it felt like to be human. Like those mortals he viewed as insignificant.

 

[Chilson]

Spoiler

Think about how we as humans regard something as insignificant. How do we regard animals or insects? Do we show them the same love we do for other humans? Yes and no, most certainly yes if we're talking about pets, but no if we're talking about something like spiders or mosquitos. Why do I bring this up? Put yourself in his perspective, you're an immortal god compared to literally anything that walks and talks on planet earth and these mortals only live for about 100 years while you live for 10 to 20 millenias. What perspective would you have then? These same mortals are also way more primal and backwards compared to you and they fight non-stop like animals. Again what perspective would you have then? We see in nature animals dominate and attack each other and kill and we just shrug it off because that's how life goes. Sometimes we see humans attack each other and we have a much more different connection to those humans because they share the same traits we do. Of course there's exceptions like someone might be a sociopath or they were stupid and fought over something dumb, but my point still stands.

Now let's shift that same outlook onto omni-man; omni-man WANTS to have these feelings for humanity and he wants to control them and conform them to his people's worldview, however, when he was spending time on earth, he grew a connection towards humanity and Debbie who then birthed a son and it was at that point he understood where humanity was coming from with their personal feelings towards each other. However, he still wanted to serve his people, but in order to do that he had to eliminate people who had more influence and would've provided a significant enough resistance to stop him (Guardians). So with that said, there was still that level of doubt within him and as Omni-man was beating Mark up, we can see that with that flashback sequence. So Omni-man was at a point of regret and self-reflection of his feelings towards humanity and mortals and when his son was close to death he saw that Mark was mortal or as mortal as humanity he grew attached to. "What will you have after 100 years?" That's not just a question he's asking Mark, he's asking himself that as well. He's also in a moment where he's thinking "All that time we spent, all that bonding we did, all that training we did, all for nothing. What the fuck have I done? My son hates me now, my relationship with Debbie is destroyed, and humanity sees me as an enemy." But then his son says, "I'd still have you" and that's when he realizes that his son, even after all he did and all the sins he committed on earth, still loved him. That at the point makes him realize the weight and consequences of his actions. So my interpretation when I first saw it was it was self-doubt and remorse (all human emotions) were hitting him and he suddenly realized what it felt like to be human. Like those mortals he viewed as insignificant.

Counterpoint, we can't have complex communications or create a baby with insects.

That's all that needs to be said to destroy omni-mans retarded logic.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Yeah I noticed how pretty leftist his motivations were and how they probably aligned with the writer's, however, I do want to propose a defense:

Spoiler

Think about how we as humans regard something as insignificant. How do we regard animals or insects? Do we show them the same love we do for other humans? Yes and no, most certainly yes if we're talking about pets, but no if we're talking about something like spiders or mosquitos. Why do I bring this up? Put yourself in his perspective, you're an immortal god compared to literally anything that walks and talks on planet earth and these mortals only live for about 100 years while you live for 10 to 20 millenias. What perspective would you have then? These same mortals are also way more primal and backwards compared to you and they fight non-stop like animals. Again what perspective would you have then? We see in nature animals dominate and attack each other and kill and we just shrug it off because that's how life goes. Sometimes we see humans attack each other and we have a much more different connection to those humans because they share the same traits we do. Of course there's exceptions like someone might be a sociopath or they were stupid and fought over something dumb, but my point still stands.

Now let's shift that same outlook onto omni-man; omni-man WANTS to have these feelings for humanity and he wants to control them and conform them to his people's worldview, however, when he was spending time on earth, he grew a connection towards humanity and Debbie who then birthed a son and it was at that point he understood where humanity was coming from with their personal feelings towards each other. However, he still wanted to serve his people, but in order to do that he had to eliminate people who had more influence and would've provided a significant enough resistance to stop him (Guardians). So with that said, there was still that level of doubt within him and as Omni-man was beating Mark up, we can see that with that flashback sequence. So Omni-man was at a point of regret and self-reflection of his feelings towards humanity and mortals and when his son was close to death he saw that Mark was mortal or as mortal as humanity he grew attached to. "What will you have after 100 years?" That's not just a question he's asking Mark, he's asking himself that as well. He's also in a moment where he's thinking "All that time we spent, all that bonding we did, all that training we did, all for nothing. What the fuck have I done? My son hates me now, my relationship with Debbie is destroyed, and humanity sees me as an enemy." But then his son says, "I'd still have you" and that's when he realizes that his son, even after all he did and all the sins he committed on earth, still loved him. That at the point makes him realize the weight and consequences of his actions. So my interpretation when I first saw it was it was self-doubt and remorse (all human emotions) were hitting him and he suddenly realized what it felt like to be human. Like those mortals he viewed as insignificant.

The problem is that humans don't think that the difference between them and animals is a matter of strength and longevity. Otherwise we'd argue that the child sick with leukaemia is not human (not to mention some animals can beat us in both categories).
Instead we differentiate by mental abilities and Omniman isn't different than any of the other humans in the show in that regard (both level of intelligence and even worldview is entirely human). 40k does it better with the idea of relationship between Eldar and Humans being like love between a human and an ape intelligence-wise.
Also in the ene having omniman give up because "love" just shows how he is right. It would have been more appropriate for him to lose by a manmade tool but I guess having humanity be anything besides a failure is against the author's worldview.

 

[Calandrino]

I feel that what happens with Amber is an issue of framing. I compared her to Skyler White in a previous post and that is because both are characters that get hate for being the SO of the protagonist. The Whites are complicated, flawed characters that have gray motivations. They do stupid shit but it is believable, specially Syler because she didn't have a say on the matter.

Honestly thought Skyler was one of the more reasonable characters on BB and didn't learn that the internet hated her until I finished the show. Shame on you, misogynists.

I could stand Amber until the last two episodes and that was because I could see where she was coming from, it was the reveal of her knowing Mark's identity and still being a bitch about it that made me scream at the telly. It doesn't help that Mark IS a terrible boyfriend but he makes things up and shows an obscene dedication to the relationship while Amber does jackshit.

I thought that was truly inspired writing. I mean, if I wanted to make Amber look like a cunt, I'd have her run off and blab Mark's secret identity to everyone, or reveal that she cheated on him, or some generic thing like that. Somehow, they found a way to make her more unlikable than anything I could have come up with. It's very clever of them.

You are correct: the difference is that Skyler is written like an ordinary person that does some bad things, whereas Amber is like a demon that exists to torment the audience, and doesn't react to any situation in the way a human being would, nor does any other character react to her in a way that makes sense. If you get isekai'd into any kind of Western media, don't date a Black girl because they will never be wrong about anything and will constantly berate you for your failings. Like, more so than women irl.

 

[topsikrets]

Honestly thought Skyler was one of the more reasonable characters on BB and didn't learn that the internet hated her until I finished the show. Shame on you, misogynists.


I thought that was truly inspired writing. I mean, if I wanted to make Amber look like a cunt, I'd have her run off and blab Mark's secret identity to everyone, or reveal that she cheated on him, or some generic thing like that. Somehow, they found a way to make her more unlikable than anything I could have come up with. It's very clever of them.

You are correct: the difference is that Skyler is written like an ordinary person that does some bad things, whereas Amber is like a demon that exists to torment the audience, and doesn't react to any situation in the way a human being would, nor does any other character react to her in a way that makes sense. If you get isekai'd into any kind of Western media, don't date a Black girl because they will never be wrong about anything and will constantly berate you for your failings. Like, more so than women irl.

If I got isekai'd into western media I'd probably just kill myself at this point.

 

[BOONES]

The Show was good, Very Good, but it shoehorned in alot of subplot, the main plot is what was good, the teen dating and coming of age was barf, more fighting, less talking.

Cecil was pretty cool too. I liked him.

 

[FaramirG]

The Show was good, Very Good, but it shoehorned in alot of subplot, the main plot is what was good, the teen dating and coming of age was barf, more fighting, less talking.

Cecil was pretty cool too. I liked him.

I don't remember if they included this bit in the show, but it's kind of funny to think about considering how often Cecil teleports.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You have to bland goodies with no room for interpretation. Strong independent black woman that wants to study social justice and serves soup while knowing the name of every hobo and perfect Andrew Garfield "nerd" with superpowers. I could stand Amber until the last two episodes and that was because I could see where she was coming from, it was the reveal of her knowing Mark's identity and still being a bitch about it that made me scream at the telly. It doesn't help that Mark IS a terrible boyfriend but he makes things up and shows an obscene dedication to the relationship while Amber does jackshit. They fight while being in Uni, she goes to a frat party and refuses to talk to Mark. For how long did she know? Because if she found out like William did that makes shit worse. And then she returns to him while he received a beatdown, at this point, it would be better if they showed her refusing to see him to not feel worse.

Honestly thought Skyler was one of the more reasonable characters on BB and didn't learn that the internet hated her until I finished the show. Shame on you, misogynists.

I thought that was truly inspired writing. I mean, if I wanted to make Amber look like a cunt, I'd have her run off and blab Mark's secret identity to everyone, or reveal that she cheated on him, or some generic thing like that. Somehow, they found a way to make her more unlikable than anything I could have come up with. It's very clever of them.

You are correct: the difference is that Skyler is written like an ordinary person that does some bad things, whereas Amber is like a demon that exists to torment the audience, and doesn't react to any situation in the way a human being would, nor does any other character react to her in a way that makes sense. If you get isekai'd into any kind of Western media, don't date a Black girl because they will never be wrong about anything and will constantly berate you for your failings. Like, more so than women irl.

If I were in Invincible's shoes, and Amber treated me like she did in the show, I'd join Omni-Man in disgust. I can just imagine Mark being so disgusted with his human girlfriend that when his dad pops the Viltrumite Empire question, Mark struggles to find a justification to stand for humanity, then Omni-Man brings up Amber's treatment of him, and Mark decides to join his father. Because if that's the experience you get from humans, that they're thankless despite you saving their lives, then yes, I can see someone joining the Empire and forcibly bringing peace to them just because they can be so disgusted with humanity.