Ace Attorney

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I was hoping for a new entry only to have my hope shatter into a billion pieces. Though with how much the character development stagnated to not piss off the shippers, any continuation that's not a new series will probably be a shadow of the original trilogy.
 
IIRC, the reason Apollo's character is such a hot mess is because the higher-ups at Capcom wanted Phoenix to still play a big role in the series, so they had to rewrite everything in the game that introduced him at the last minute which is why the entire plot of the fourth game makes no goddamn sense, why everyone feels so OOC, and why things with the final villain are left unexplained/unfinished.

Because of all this, they had to scrap their original plans for him in later games which is why they didn't know what to with him, and essentially just wrote him out of the series at the end of SoJ.
Yeah, this is all complete horseshit. Phoenix was always in the game, the story was written with him in mind. Dunno where this retarded fanfiction came from, I've seen it parroted for more than a decade now.
Relief of the Guard

Hello. Takumi here of the Gyakuten Saiban team.

Do you know, I like being tied down.
Whenever I feel I’m missing something, I like putting tying myself down.

...There might be people surprised at me coming out like this. If you stop reading now, I’m afraid this will lead to a very big misunderstanding, so please stay with me until the end. To those who don’t have that time: just forget those two sentences. Promise me!

Anyway, this time I’ll talk about substituting the protagonist. People who have played until 3 are probably most curious about this aspect of 4.

From Naruhodō Ryūichi (Phoenix Wright) to Odoroki Hōsuke (Apollo Justice).

If you allow me to explain to those who don’t know the series: Naruhodō Ryūichi is a young defense attorney who was the protagonist of Gyakuten Saiban 1 ~ 3. While the episodes were all separate stories, the three games formed one big story together.

…That story ended with 3.
I don’t want to add an episode to that story…

This is how I really felt when I got the confirmation that 4 was going to be made. On the other hand, nothing makes a creator as happy as the cry for sequels, and that too is how I really felt.
So after a lot of thinking, I arrived at this conclusion…

“If we’re going to make a true sequel to the games, it should be a completely new story.”

That way, people who don’t know the series yet would be able to get into it easily and we can offer them new surprises.…That was my (fairly reasonable) view on it.

But that was in a way, “selfishness” and I had not really expected that they would allow that to pass, but the company said: “You can change the characters.” What a generous company, Capcom. However. They gave me two conditions.


  • Characters from the previous games, Naruhodō Ryūichi at least, had to appear in the game.
  • "●●●●●" had to be featured in the story.

To be honest, both conditions were quite hard to accept for me. I didn’t want to have Naruhodō simply appear in a brand new story. But I also couldn’t have him interfere with the role of the new protagonist. So how should I use him? And I also had to add in ●●●●●! … This was a tough one. By the way, what ●●●●● means? I can’t tell you before the release. I might talk about on the blog in due time, but I think you’ll know what it is if you complete the game.

… Anyway. Now I can finally get back at my confession in the introduction.

Do you know, I like being tied down.
Whenever I feel I’m missing something, I like putting tying myself down.

People who write mystery fiction (or at least me), always have rules in their mind whenever they create a story, and they have a custom of “putting ties” on themselves.

For example (and this are just examples):

  • Don't use needle & thread tricks.
  • Only use up to five characters.
  • The butler can’t be the criminal.
Etcetera.

Mystery fiction is always about looking for some new surprise. I think that in order to find new surprises, you need to have ties holding you down. You might think that it should be other way around, but if I look back, I think it happened often that I had to struggle with my own rules like: “In order to make this story work in the best possible way, I can’t do ○○.” Or perhaps I just like being tied up.

But these two conditions were restraints that proved to be a good challenge. I pained my mind to comply with these two conditions, and a story was suddenly born that surprised even me…. That was a very thrilling experience.

… A new story that was born like this. I hope that you will all enjoy it. And that is it for today.

The entire game's mystery is built around finding out what the fuck happened to Phoenix. While Apollo's story is being a newbie lawyer beginning his career, and taking up the mantle of Wright's famous law office. Thematically whole game is about passing the torch, a new generation taking over, moving on etc. This was also true on a meta level, since Shu Takumi wanted to use AJ as a way to train new devs to take over the reins for the series.

It's suprisingly focused and well thought out. Individual cases having retarded logic (case 3) withstanding.
I have no idea why they hate Athena, though. She has more going for her than Apollo ever did, and for them to just keep giving her the shaft makes no sense.
Cause she's shit? Lmao. She literally only works as an assistant, the moment you play as her, she's another bootleg Phoenix. Apollo is similar enough already, though that's kind of the point in AJ, since he's meant to be next-gen Phoenix. (He's also more aggressive, like when he punches Phoenix, apparently the Japanese dialogue makes him come across even more differently.)

Atleast when you don't play as her, she's an overly energetic retard that works as a foil to a sarcastic protag.
 
Let's be real... Phoenix Wright is a side character in his own 3DS games.
I mean lets also be completely real.

Phoenix's Story was finished, now them Fucking over his happy ending to turn him into a Hobo was bullshit but after the ending of the first Trilogy there was really nowhere for Nick to go in terms of a challenge (until SoJ sent him to a new country)

Dual Destinies also had the big build-up for Athena Cykes, and then did nothing with her for except for one case in Spirits of justice.
I like Athena but her introduction was a mistake, they should have waited till 7 to introduce another new character, that would have given Apollo more time to develop...the Main Cast got really bloated in Game 5 and with only 5 cases a game it is really hard for anyone to get real screentime.
 
It's suprisingly focused and well thought out.
Except not really because it completely disregards everything that's happened during the previous three games.

The entire plot hinges on Phoenix getting disbarred for an honest mistake, and continuing to be so for seven whole years despite his prior track record of being a squeaky-clean defense attorney, and the fact that Edgeworth has so much pull in the legal system he could've fixed everything.

And if by some reason he couldn't, there's no way in hell it would've taken the seven years to figure things out, and even then, there's no way he would've let Phoenix larp as a hobo, especially with Trucy around.

This isn't even to mention that every other ally Phoenix made during the OG trilogy that could've either vouched for, or otherwise help him except for Ema is suspiciously absent.
Cause she's shit? Lmao. She literally only works as an assistant, the moment you play as her, she's another bootleg Phoenix. Apollo is similar enough already, though that's kind of the point in AJ, since he's meant to be next-gen Phoenix. (He's also more aggressive, like when he punches Phoenix, apparently the Japanese dialogue makes him come across even more differently.)

Atleast when you don't play as her, she's an overly energetic retard that works as a foil to a sarcastic protag.
Oh, please. She's not that bad. She certainly has a better gimmick, and backstory than Apollo does, and unlike him, she didn't need to be given three different ones for it to actually stick.
I like Athena but her introduction was a mistake, they should have waited till 7 to introduce another new character, that would have given Apollo more time to develop...the Main Cast got really bloated in Game 5 and with only 5 cases a game it is really hard for anyone to get real screentime.
Honestly, this.

As much as I love Athena for what she brought to the series (an interesting gimmick, Simon Blackquil, one of the most fucked up, and yet shockingly plausible things murder theories in the entire series, cross-examining a whale, etc.), she should've been either introduced before as a background character in previous games, or just postponed for the sake of Apollo.
 
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As much as I love Athena for what she brought to the series (an interesting gimmick, Simon Blackquil, one of the most fucked up, and yet shockingly plausible things murder theories in the entire series, cross-examining a whale, etc.), she should've been either introduced before as a background character in previous games, or just postponed for the sake of Apollo.
Game 5's Finale should have been Lamilor getting in trouble and Apollo having to bail her out with Edgeworth as the Special Prosecutor so you get Apollo facing down Edgeworth once, and during that case it comes out that she is Apollo and Trudy's biological mother, and she can introduce Apollo's father as a Lawyer and introduce Spirit land as a concept and where Apollo Grew up.

Then game 6 Nick goes there using his weight as a world famous Attorney to try and find out exactly what happened to Apollo's father and Maya goes with..and during the game they discover that Spirit land and Maya Spirit Land are connected by an offshoot of the bloodline. Nick ends up as the Accused in the final trial, which brings Apollo full circle, his first and last major cases are defending Nick...and gives you the special moment of..Apollo working with Maya before he leaves.

Apollo decides to stay as he does in the real game, and THEN you introduce Athena and you can do her stuff with Simon Blackquil and the like..and at the end of that Trilogy you do a "big epic" case for both 4 and 5...where Athena's finale is in case 4...then case 5 is Nick's Grand Finale..where everyone shows up and Nick defends someone on the world stage*.


*Bonus Points if it is President Will Powers murdering another world leader.
 
As much as I love Athena for what she brought to the series (an interesting gimmick, Simon Blackquil, one of the most fucked up, and yet shockingly plausible things murder theories in the entire series, cross-examining a whale, etc.), she should've been either introduced before as a background character in previous games, or just postponed for the sake of Apollo.
Her Widgit gimmic (Analytical Psychology / Mood Matrix) is so interesting, it pisses me off that it's become wasted potential, because at this point, she could have her own game just with that gimmic alone.

Hell, at this point she could even play detective with it and help the police because it would be THAT beneficial to help catch a criminal from lying and help a scared victim who's shut off from everyone. There would be no reason NOT to use it.
 
Hell, at this point she could even play detective with it and help the police because it would be THAT beneficial to help catch a criminal from lying and help a scared victim who's shut off from everyone. There would be no reason NOT to use it.
This is why I think they should've introduced her way earlier. Some of the OG trilogy's best cases seem tailor-made for her. Just think of how fast the final case in the second game could've been solved if she was there.

It makes me wonder if Capcom knows she's super OP, and that's why they don't use her. Her power is so broken it would drastically shorten the games if it was used at its full potential.
 
It took me a while to warm up to Athena because for the most part her writing isn't much different from Maya, Kay and Trucy and on top of that her character design feels out of place next to Phoenix and Apollo. Over time I had it pointed out to me that her personality type as an actual main attorney does make her interactions in the courtroom different compared to the other two because she's more likely to snap back at insults than Phoenix and Apollo and eventually I did appreciate her more. She could definitely use a game where she's not pushed to the side.
 
Except not really because it completely disregards everything that's happened during the previous three games.

The entire plot hinges on Phoenix getting disbarred for an honest mistake, and continuing to be so for seven whole years despite his prior track record of being a squeaky-clean defense attorney, and the fact that Edgeworth has so much pull in the legal system he could've fixed everything.

And if by some reason he couldn't, there's no way in hell it would've taken the seven years to figure things out, and even then, there's no way he would've let Phoenix larp as a hobo, especially with Trucy around.

This isn't even to mention that every other ally Phoenix made during the OG trilogy that could've either vouched for, or otherwise help him except for Ema is suspiciously absent.
AJ is literally the only game that respected Phoenix's character growth throughout the Trilogy. The first 3 games were about a newbie becoming a veteran lawyer. The first game was his early cases and his first big challenges, the second game was about him questioning himself as a lawyer and the third game was about rising to the challenge of a rival on the level of Mia. The conclusion is literally Mia telling Phoenix he's on her level now.

Shu Takumi himself said that having Phoenix just show up after that would be lame as fuck, and would undermine his story. So the whole hobo shit was a great way to recontextualize Phoenix as a fallen mentor character, putting him a new light, while preserving his character arc by having him behave like the calculated veteran he became by defeating Godot. It was up there with AA2's Edgeworth mystery as far as the most intruiging developments in the series. The game ending with his final case and passing the torch was literally Shu Takumi saying goodbye to Phoenix and AA himself. It is legit great stuff.

Then, DD&SoJ reset him to bumbling faggot straight from Trilogy, only now he occasionally makes a dad joke. Yeah, fuck that.

As far as lore faggotry about what Edgeworth should've/would've/could've done, it's pointless to argue that shit, because you're literally arguing in favor of making the game's story less interesting. That's like arguing about how laughably retarded the final case of T&T was, if you pay attention for more than a femtosecond. Guy stole the plans from a 6 year old, then put but them back so that she could carry them out? Yeah sure it's dumb, but you don't have the freaking story anymore if he didn't do it. Like, c'mon. I'm not advocating for putting up with sloppy shit, ala DD&SoJ which is brimming with retarded and contrived shit writing, but when it is legitimately conducive to telling a good story, like T&T and AJ, I'd say it's fine.

Likewise, the lack of legacy characters was actually quite refreshing. After 3 games back to back of Maya, Edgeworth and everyone else, we've all gotten more than our fill of them. How can you miss someone if they don't fuck off for a while? It made you actually want to see them again. As opposed to groaning when Edgeworth is wheeled out, yet again, for the final fucking case of a game *cough*5&6*cough*. It's also a really autistic take that he was abandoned by his friends, just because the game held back on wheeling out the peanut gallery, which would've needlessly bloated the cast.

Seeing how radically Phoenix's and Ema's design changed filled everyone with curiosity, made people want to see how they changed in the 7 year timeskip. It was exciting! And then SoJ and DD happened. And everyone is literally the exact same person. Wearing the same clothes, with minor differences, doing a routine of Trilogy characters yet again. Instantly ruined the easiest layup in the history of layups, and made everyone not give a single fuck about them again. God, those Yamazaki games are fucking shit.
Oh, please. She's not that bad. She certainly has a better gimmick, and backstory than Apollo does, and unlike him, she didn't need to be given three different ones for it to actually stick.
Nah, her gimmick is overdesigned and even more arbitrary than Apollo's bracelet. Her backstory is whatever, but it is fucking retarded in implementation. Her whole deal is that she's afraid of being in court, and she gets over it pretty easily. You'd think it would've been a bigger plot point, but nope.

Apollo's retcons don't exist to make him better lmao, (since they're both abysmal) they exist so he could be crowbared into the individual plots of those 2 games, and used to further Athena's and Sadhmadhi family's retarded plotlines. Again, he's literally just a tool to prop up Athena in DD, his big "character moment" is him screeching about how he accused her of murder because he wants to trust her (???), and to prop up Dhurke's Gary Sue ass.

Apollo was literally fine in AJ, the one big mystery was his dad, which was again, an easy layup for a game long mystery, instead it was a shitty jpeg thrown in to make his 'real' dad, Dhurke, have an excuse to hang out with him. Apollo was basically in the same position as Phoenix post AA1 at the end of AA4.
Simon Blackquil
As an aside, I don't get why people like that fucker. He's like baby's first OC do not steal. He's overdesigned to shit (he's a samuria, but which chains, and a feather in his mouth, AND PET BIRD), and he's completely faultless.
Fucker is supposed to be a brooding manipulative psycho, but he's ackshually a fiercely loyal honorobu samurai who has no character flaws, and is so heckin kewl that he just shrugs off everybody. Textbook Gary Sue shit.

It's like a really shit mix between Edgeworth and Lang from AAI1. Compare him to like Gavin from AJ, who is also meant to be a "cool" character, but he's mocked for being a whiny bitch when his guitar gets busted, and he was completely taken for a fool by his brother, and was being shat on by Phoenix in their trial.
 
As an aside, I don't get why people like that fucker. He's like baby's first OC do not steal. He's overdesigned to shit (he's a samuria, but which chains, and a feather in his mouth, AND PET BIRD),
He has chains because he's handcuffed because he's on death row, and he has a feather, and a pet bird because it's a reference/pun on the term "jail bird".

You know. Because he's fucking in jail, and AA loves dumb visual gags/puns like this.
and he's completely faultless.
What? People in the game think he's a creep, and say so repeatedly. He's called out multiple times in the game for being a dick, and gets punished for it to via Fullbright electrocuting him. He's not completely faultless.
Fucker is supposed to be a brooding manipulative psycho,
Did you even play this game? Because he's not supposed to be that at all.

He might look like a brooding emo, but in reality he's just a giant weeaboo nerd who spends trials cracking jokes, laughing, and trolling the fuck out of everyone because he thinks it's funny, and because it gets results. He also gets called out, and punished for it too when he goes too far.
but he's ackshually a fiercely loyal honorobu samurai who has no character flaws, and is so heckin kewl that he just shrugs off everybody. Textbook Gary Sue shit.
See my point above. Characters in-game think he's a fucking weirdo, and find his courtroom antics inappropriate.

Again, did you even play this game? Because you've managed to get so much stuff wrong, I highly doubt you actually did.
 
He has chains because he's handcuffed because he's on death row, and he has a feather, and a pet bird because it's a reference/pun on the term "jail bird".

You know. Because he's fucking in jail, and AA loves dumb visual gags/puns like this.
Yeah, cheers autist, I know the games excuse for his shit. I'm talking about him being overdesigned, which he is. He has accessory on top of accessory on top of accessory. Like someone's overdesigned OC.

And yeah, the Japanese samurai dude has a bird because of a specifically English pun. That's a desperate line of cope if there ever was one.
He has a hawk because falconry was apparently sth irl samurais did, dipshit. And that still doesn't make it any better.
What? People in the game think he's a creep, and say so repeatedly. He's called out multiple times in the game for being a dick, and gets punished for it to via Fullbright electrocuting him. He's not completely faultless.
Yeah, it turns out they're all wrong because he's a great and loyal guy protecting Athena and her mom. Wow, self-sacrifice and the revelation that people were wrong about him, what a fault. As is having a handful of comedy moments, where the guy who turns out to be the main villain is fucking with him. Wow, what a fault again.

This is pretty sad fanboy cope, ngl.
Did you even play this game? Because he's not supposed to be that at all.
Did you, motherfucker? Cause it's hard to miss the part in his intro where he cuts someone down and is splashed with blood.

What level of projection is this? The first thing they do is say and show that he's a manipulative violent murderer, and a gruff asshole with eyeshadow. Wtf are you on?
He might look like a brooding emo, but in reality he's just a giant weeaboo nerd who spends trials cracking jokes, laughing, and trolling the fuck out of everyone because he thinks it's funny, and because it gets results. He also gets called out, and punished for it too when he goes too far.
Cheers fag, him being a weeb at all is the localization changing the writing. He's actually just a samurai dude. And all his heckin trolling is once again, him being so heckin kewl he's simultaneously a violent gruff asshole who can break his chains and merk anyone while doing a mean face, but also a too kewl for school lolquippy awsum character.

Aka, a disgusting Gary Sue.
See my point above. Characters in-game think he's a fucking weirdo, and find his courtroom antics inappropriate.

Again, did you even play this game? Because you've managed to get so much stuff wrong, I highly doubt you actually did.
See my point above, you seem to be projecting really hard. Considering you don't even seem to know literally the first fucking scene he's shown in. NotMeantToBeAPsychoBTW.png
 
Arguing about Simon is fucking stupid.

Every fucking character in the setting, especially the Prosecutors are fucking dumb if you think about them for more than 2 minutes.

Edgeworth gets caught hiding Evidence repeatedly who has the weirdest fucking simp on the planet in Old-bag.
Daddy Von Karma had a mental breakdown over getting one penalty and proceeds to hold a Grudge for decades
Titty Von Karma assaults EVERYONE including the Judge
Godot is self insert fanfic material...and still manages to be the greatest of the lot.
Klavier is a Tumbler Fanfic Character.

Being absurd and Silly is kind of the entire point of the prosecutor to the point where in the Professor Layton Crossover..Layton came across as boring because he was actually acting like a professional.
 
Arguing about Simon is fucking stupid.

Every fucking character in the setting, especially the Prosecutors are fucking dumb if you think about them for more than 2 minutes.

Edgeworth gets caught hiding Evidence repeatedly who has the weirdest fucking simp on the planet in Old-bag.
Daddy Von Karma had a mental breakdown over getting one penalty and proceeds to hold a Grudge for decades
Titty Von Karma assaults EVERYONE including the Judge
Godot is self insert fanfic material...and still manages to be the greatest of the lot.
Klavier is a Tumbler Fanfic Character.

Being absurd and Silly is kind of the entire point of the prosecutor to the point where in the Professor Layton Crossover..Layton came across as boring because he was actually acting like a professional.
It's not about not being stupid, it's about not being overly slanted into writer's OC Sue territory. Most of them on that list aren't, the only exception is Godot, and that part of him is kinda bad. But his plotline and tie in to the greater development of Phoenix's character arc is solid, so he gets mostly a pass. Simon falls into the Sue zone very hard though, moreso than any other rival.

Btw, Layton is the worst of the lot, lmao. He's the most Gary Sue Gary Sue out of anybody, that knows everything at that point, but doesn't tell you because fuck you. IIRC, didn't he literally walk up to the Storyteller dude and just tell him he already figured everything out? The whole 'battle of wits' between Phoenix and Layton sucked shit, it was just Layton dragging Phoenix through the exceedingly retarded plottwists.

The characters even sucked Layton's dick about how he was so great, they needed to capture him, but Phoenix was taken there because of an oopsie followed by "btw who are you again?".
 
It's not about not being stupid, it's about not being overly slanted into writer's OC Sue territory. Most of them on that list aren't, the only exception is Godot, and that part of him is kinda bad. But his plotline and tie in to the greater development of Phoenix's character arc is solid, so he gets mostly a pass. Simon falls into the Sue zone very hard though, moreso than any other rival.

Btw, Layton is the worst of the lot, lmao. He's the most Gary Sue Gary Sue out of anybody, that knows everything at that point, but doesn't tell you because fuck you. IIRC, didn't he literally walk up to the Storyteller dude and just tell him he already figured everything out? The whole 'battle of wits' between Phoenix and Layton sucked shit, it was just Layton dragging Phoenix through the exceedingly retarded plottwists.

The characters even sucked Layton's dick about how he was so great, they needed to capture him, but Phoenix was taken there because of an oopsie followed by "btw who are you again?".
I liked the gameplay aspects of Layton vs Wright...but holy shit some of the writing could have been better....They at least needed to BRING UP SPIRITUAL MEDIUMS to fucking melt Prof's mind about magic.
 
I'm surprised they didn't pair Apollo Justice with the Investigations games. Think about it: they were all DS originals done in the 2D style, they're canonically the next three games after Trials and Tribulations, and it'd give Capcom an opportunity to finally localize I2.
I'd be doubtful we'd ever see Investigations get ported, but if they're willing to remake Ghost Trick, it's probably not crazy to hope for Miles's games to see the light again.
 
I'm surprised they didn't pair Apollo Justice with the Investigations games. Think about it: they were all DS originals done in the 2D style, they're canonically the next three games after Trials and Tribulations, and it'd give Capcom an opportunity to finally localize I2.
I'd be doubtful we'd ever see Investigations get ported, but if they're willing to remake Ghost Trick, it's probably not crazy to hope for Miles's games to see the light again.
I wish we'd gotten more Edgeworth games. I found him to be a much better protagonist than the others. Wright and Justice are nice and all, but they both tend to do the bumbling nervous thing too much. Edgeworth has a grit to him that makes him a much more enjoyable protagonist to play as.
 
I wish we'd gotten more Edgeworth games. I found him to be a much better protagonist than the others. Wright and Justice are nice and all, but they both tend to do the bumbling nervous thing too much. Edgeworth has a grit to him that makes him a much more enjoyable protagonist to play as.
It's grit, and the fact that he's a character that's grounded in reality, and has a no nonsense approach which is something the series desperately needs because the world, and characters in it are so fucking chaotic, and stupid.
 
the world, and characters in it are so fucking chaotic, and stupid
Well, I mean that's sort of the charm of the series. The weird and wacky criminals and side characters, and so on. But I think that's part of what makes Edgeworth a good protagonist, it makes him the straight man in a silly world.
 
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