In my eyes, best option is next game features a daughter of phoenix wright with fey blood as the protag, whose mother doesn't appear in the story. Leaves it open that it could be either Maya or Iris, and opens up Fey bullshit as a mechanic.
-Tyrion cuthbert arcane attorney: This game is looow budget as hellll and they start recycling background and some characters have a single portrait and you can tell part of the final case was cut but it's a fine ace attorney clone. It's ace attorney but characters have a list of D&D spells that add something else to think about.
It has one of my favourite gimmicks ever in witnesses who cannot lie but can twist sentences and meanings which leads to great boss fights that force you to actually think deeper than finding one contradiction. The protagonist is very competent which is actually nice for once but it makes the rival girl look completely pathetic and useless (srsly i don't remember her having a single pop off). The final case is the best and worst thing ever as it goes fully off rails anime bullshit. It's a game of high highs and low lows.
-Staffer Case: You're a detective solving cases in britain where a small % of population has supernatural powers and you're part of a 4 person team with well written personalities and powers. One can detect lies in testimony, one sees traces (fingerprint etc) and another can track senses from the past. You're told to answer a problem and you must connect 2 pieces of evidences but you can pinpoint specific bits within a single evidence making the whole thing exponentially more complex and a few times frustrating. You can't press statements or get tips, if you get stuck it's GG.
Game's biggest weakness is how repetitive and small it feels, as every case boils down to 3 suspects and having a "this power is actually a different power!" twist. The world feels small due to low number of npcs and normal people to talk with. Final case is also painfully long and existential and i started mashing but overall i liked it and wish more games used it's evidence system.
-Paper perjury- you play a female police desk worker dragged into detective work and ace attorney clone gameplay. This one is more light hearted and mundane as it's all reasonable crimes (barely any murders) that eventually connect together. I like how this game actually has some dev foresight where presenting the wrong evidence will explain WHY it's wrong. Sometimes the mc will straight up say she's holding back the more damning stuff for later or the rival will counterargue well. The rival is very good too, she is nice but presents actually good arguments and she has real development after watching all her clients be guilty. The mc on the other hand is kidna bland sassy and gets some very in your face lesbian ship tease with her friend that made me roll my eyes. Good game to pirate.
There are some unfinished ones i played too. Laws of Nadragia is only a demo but you play a prosecutor back in renasance against peasants who can't even afford a lawyer. It's very commited to realistic law procedure as you have a tab just to open trial rules that you will have to present very often, to the point i can see it filtering most people as it's annoying.
Unlike other games, you solve multiple small cases per day under a time limit and you can actually fuck up and lose and the game goes on without you getting paid, but if you have no money to pay rent you lose the game like it's papers please. You can disable it and i regret not doing it.
I remember it having one very good case tho where the culprit is mocking you the whole trial because you got no evidence and the mc gets so angry you get the option to actually lie and say a guard saw him so he's guilty and a peasant's word is worthless, which makes him panic and admit he was wearing a mask, accidentally confessing it was him. This is framed as the MC cleverly baiting him but it could've backfired and killed an innocent man so i'm shocked a game gave me a choice like that, i wonder if the final game will have more.
Another unfinished one is Of The Devil releasing episodes over time. The demo was very good and has a strong premise of playing lawyer in cyberpunk world with cameras everywhere and the 2d +3d presentation is cool but then i tried the next chapter and i felt so bored i couldn't finish and the main cast of 4 women never stop talking. I also remember glancing the dev's tumblr and they want to make "Death Note with lesbians" so yeah...
I did not know Tyrion cuthbert got updated, i dont know if the rewrites are worse but better production values would help a lot to make it more friendly on the eyes.
I did not know Tyrion cuthbert got updated, i dont know if the rewrites are worse but better production values would help a lot to make it more friendly on the eyes.
Relatively speaking, I have to apologize to Tyrion Cuthbert, it's not really as low budget as some of the stuff out there. Going from that, to absolute jank city stuff on Steam just makes me appreciate it more. It still has bugs, but it's definitely a more complete experience. Back when I made the post, I hadn't gone through all of it, but the differences are much more noticeable from case 2 onward, including the deus ex machina from case 4 that's now rewritten into something else entirely.
I do consider it worth replaying through because of that. Staffer doesn't really get that distinction cause it hasn't gone through any rewrites, though the voice acting is top notch, to the point I wonder how they managed to get those since they're not small names and it's all the dialogue that's voiced.
Relatively speaking, I have to apologize to Tyrion Cuthbert, it's not really as low budget as some of the stuff out there. Going from that, to absolute jank city stuff on Steam just makes me appreciate it more. It still has bugs, but it's definitely a more complete experience. Back when I made the post, I hadn't gone through all of it, but the differences are much more noticeable from case 2 onward, including the deus ex machina from case 4 that's now rewritten into something else entirely.
I do consider it worth replaying through because of that. Staffer doesn't really get that distinction cause it hasn't gone through any rewrites, though the voice acting is top notch, to the point I wonder how they managed to get those since they're not small names and it's all the dialogue that's voiced.
I pirated all of them so i'd have to repirate but it sounds like it's worth a replay. I think case 1 was already decent as that was the kickstarter demo so it had a lot of effort put onto it. The games shat on some of it's themes like "dont rely too much on your power" and "only a fair trial will end corruption" so i hope they tried to improve that with rewrites too.
I played staffer case when the translation released and no VA but that would be nice, especially for the emotional character moments and that final stretch. I think there is another previous game i didnt play and idk how good it is but i'm excited for the next one they're making.
I forgot to mention but there are some others ace attorney likes i didn't play.
Aviary Attorney is black and white animals in england and you are time gated in exploration and can fail cases.
Death trick double blind has ace attorney style contradictions but within circus crime. I was interested but never played.
Murders of yangtze river is chinese detective but allegedly similar and has a lot of steam reviews.
Burden of proof and Burden of truth: The first game looks ugly and the second a lil better and few reviews but it looks like 3d ace attorney made by solo dev. There is a demo at least.
I pirated and finished trials of innocence and i really liked it overall. I'll try to keep this brief what i like and dislike
+The game has almost a certain charm in it's unlocalized translation
You can tell this game was not "localized" because you get unhinged lines like "that's the fun of raising a loli" (the "loli" is his 17 cousin) and "but you're a 27 year old woman, why aren't you married yet?". It will straight up name drop copyrighted characters like Spiderman, hulk and transformers but make up names like "toktik" for other stuff.
(this man is an otaku and ace attorney fan. Why did they make him a pedophile?)
("I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I HEARD HIM SAY OBJECTION IN JAPANESE!")
That said, translation ranges from acceptable to unfinished at wild. Some character names in the log and portrait are simply NEVER translated and some text files are literally in full chinese, making using them as evidence extremely fucked up. I only figured out by a bit of save scumming and elimination.
It also features way too much ace attorney references, with the first 3 cases being egregious. There are some stealth references that are good but you get the equivalent of a magatama and the otaku says he couldn'tm ake it magatama shaped. It makes the early game feel painfully unoriginal.
+The main characters are really good. They're not as funny but they're well written.
Luna Ray is a somewhat like athena/maya hibrid, she's a beginner and breaks down fast and she loves eating snacks and watching tv dramas. She's not very intelligent, prone to break down and pulls some outlandish theories based on dramas she watches but it works because that's actually how her cases play out and it's her strenght.
Charlie drake is the mentor but you play half the cases with him. He's ex-military, very intelligent and competent but he never becomes mary sueish or edgy because he 31 which means he is OLD AND UGLY. This game is anime so 31 is OLD. This game will not waste an opportunity to call him OLD AND UGLY. This becomes annoying fast but later is salvaged by reaching absurd levels like even his 30 year old friend calling him old and people thinking he's luna's father. He also humble and goofy and his failures are pretty funny as he often makes fun of himself. In one particular egregious fail everyone will be silent and he will apologize and reduce his own health.
I like their dynamics because it feels like partners who help each other instead of teenage cheerleaders. Charlie is much more knowlegeable but Luna is great at thinking outside of box so they help each other. He's much smarter but by the end she becomes much more competent.
+The prosecutors are good and competentet
I saw a comment saying the "prosecution and police is too competenent and honest for this game and since it's chinese it must be copaganda". I don't agree with them but it might be the case and i think it's for the better. There are 2 main prosecutors and you even explore with them for a bit.
Stella Ray is the older sister of Luna Ray and she's like franziska who boxes with von karma's agression but actually good and honest. She'll threaten to punch Charlie very often as she hates him for different ideologies and for "stealing her sister", and she'll often object to argue your point is unrelated. She has a quirk of mixing up sense expressions like "Now listen with your open eyes!" and some internal art design comments.
Silas Schubert (pfft) is the other one and he's same age as luna (23) and a beginner. He has a very unique gimmick where he stays silent most of the time only to take out his headphones and do cute piano motions (while his piano theme plays) and rapidfire object all your arguments in a row. For some reason this boy upsets the shit out of me in a way no other prosecutor does, i think it's because he's such a smug asshole about it but his arguments aren't equally strong. He'll make a long cientific argument on how many types of blank are and it's unclear what the defendant had, but also say this gunpowder residue somewhere is unrelated because you can't prove it's related. Outside court he's an introvert who wanted to be a musician but he became a prosecutor to find the person who killed his father. There are also implications that he's a closet weaboo with a "lolita suit".
These two are undeniably heroic and will side with you when they fit necessary so they do not make good villains but they do work because of a point i'll make later.
(luna, charlie, stella and silas. Note how OLD AND UGLY charlie is. He is OLD AND UGLY.)
+This game is more grounded than AA
I love ace attorney but cases will often become literal clown fiestas. Between retarded clients, witnesses committing perjury for funsies, prosecutors whipping you, the judge being blind and overtly complex mysteries, you can literally hear the clown music coming.
This game some very gimmick npcs who start extremely one dimensional and some stay 1 dimensional. We talking shit like "My name is detective Siris Spark and i'm serious!" and that's literally it. As in, he literally says *i'm serious* at the and every sentence. It also escalates with terrorist groups and international affairs but even at it's worst there is still some dignity at court and nuance to the crimes involved.
The other thing is that twists in this game feel designed around character drama rather than "the murder mystery". You have a ton of idendity reveals, family angst, backstabs, sacrifices etc. and it feels like a ridiculous soap opera sometimes, but cases are simple.
+This games has actually something to say about TRUTH and the meaning of LAW and what you fight for.
Let me ask you a question, do you think Phoenix Wright would willingly defend Bin Laden in a court for a crime he didn't commit? And if pheonix did, what would take him to turn against Bin Laden later? The real answer is that we would never know, because it wouldn't happen. Every client phoenix defends *willingly* is innocent and the killer is inforgivable.
The fartherst AA will go when criticizing law is edgeworth realize "the truth is more important than winning" (wow) or muh dark of law that isn't elaborated or "authorities are corrupt but ONLY THIS ONE OR TWO EVIL GUY OK".
This game actually tackles the idea maybe the truth isn't actually that worth it and lying for the greater good is worth it. That maybe being good is more important than being right. This is why Stella hates Charlie.
Charlie is a firm believer that truth is only a tool to let us judge but law itself exists to benefit society. He brings a tale of confucious lying about 2+2 = 5 so a man wouldn't die and he agrees. If he has to be wrong to help innocent people then he will be wrong. And he actually means it, to the point he will lie in court to help a good person. In one case he even says "If you killed her i'll prove you innocent but if you did... then i promise to do my best to lighten your sentence because you're my friend".
Stella on the other hand believes that truth is absolute and law is only as legitimate as it's upholders. If you abuse power once then what's stopping you from doing it again? She actually calls out charlie and asks if he would be willing to forge evidence to frame a criminal and where he draws the line and he goes quiet. She literally says it's not about winning or losing but if believes she is wrong she will refuse to prosecute.
Silas is believer that "the truth of the past doesn't matter, only the present" and aligns with charlie but in a way he's only for personal reasons and doesn't care about law per se, only to find about his father's killer.
There is an npc that gives their own definition of law as "set of rules that are created and are enforceable by governmental or societal institutions to regulate behavior" which sounds cold but is literally the definition of law and valid too, altho the person who says it is biased.
These people have actual human convictions that make sense and isn't black and white. They're both good and join sides when necessary but they're will forever be ideologically opposed. On the same vein, so are the crimes.
There is no "we got the villain and won yahoo" case. Every case is conflicting because everyone involved has their own convictions and nuance.
Stella is unique in that YOU choose for her. You're given multiple options on whether you tell the painful truth or you hide it for the greater good and there is no wrong choice. It's not uber #deep but it makes AA look like a very childish cartoon.
+The cases are inconsistent
Case 1 is AWFUL. It's not just rushed, it has retarded chain of logic that made it the hardest case in the game for me. Luna in this case is simply a wizard who twists one line into a massive stretch. For example, you must object to "you can't prove we are connected" with a poster of the victim youtube channel, which means he must have an assistant and it has to be them because who else would be (?????). Terrible case.
Case 2 is a little better but the otaku is going to filter some people and the twist is a bit absurd and the case repetitive. Case 3 is longer and better again, as if devs are finally learning.
Case 4 is GOOD. By this point the foreshadowing is much more tight, the final twist that is peak and it features a flashback to THE INCIDENT 761 and it's a damn solid high stakes case. The twists on the client, the victim and witness and their relationships are great and i love how it doesn't hold back at all. This flashback case made charlie my favourite character by far.
Case 5 is, i don't want to overhype it but i like it better than most ace attorney final cases. It's not really about spectacle, is too long and the mastermind might feel obvious but it builds on previous cases, it's twists and it's themes. It's the culmination of Luna carving her ninja way and her own definition of justice. It's a case that i expect to be "divisive" but in a good way.
Would i recommend? Yeah, this is one of the good ones. It's an AA clone allright, the portraits are ok even if they're not dynamic as AA and the music is pretty good.
I love ace attorney but cases will often become literal clown fiestas. Between retarded clients, witnesses committing perjury for funsies, prosecutors whipping you, the judge being blind and overtly complex mysteries, you can literally hear the clown music coming.
I want the new game to have Simon Keyes be out of prison because 1) it would even further show just how utterly, and hilariously broken the legal system in AA is, 2) show just how much time has passed since the events of AAI2 have happened, and 3) it'd be really, really funny.
I want the new game to have Simon Keyes be out of prison because 1) it would even further show just how utterly, and hilariously broken the legal system in AA is, 2) show just how much time has passed since the events of AAI2 have happened, and 3) it'd be really, really funny.
I want a new cast altogether since the series overall has this really awful problem of constantly bringing back new characters even if they don't do anything substantial with them. Obviously, Trucy and Pearl in DD, Larry, Athena, and Simon (arguably) in SoJ are some of the most obvious offenders, but even bringing back side characters is something that irks me. We don't need to constantly be reminded that every other character still exists. It just makes the world feel smaller. DGS was a great change of pace because it had a new cast. While there were parallels and archetypes that carried over from the series, it still let the cast do new, surprising things that the writers could not or would not do with pre established characters (Gregson and Kazuma, especially.)
I'm fine with characters reappearing- that can be fun and work well- but it's very easy to bloat the story and undermine the mysteries. AAI is a big offender. So much of the cast is comprised of pre-existing characters beyond the mainstays. Maggey, Ema, Oldbag, Larry, the Judge, Meekins... And obviously since they were already in the canon, they're not going to do anything to change how they're perceived: no character growth, no doing something bad, no revealing a new facet, nothing. It feels like they're, for lake of a better term, wasted slots in the character roster. Don't fill up the game with characters that can't develop and can't be suspected just to try to get me to soyface and say "waaaaow, I remember him!"
Ace Attorney is stuck in this limbo of Phoenix publicity and nostalgia pandering but also trying to feel fresh by introducing new random gimmicks, main characters and backgrounds. It lead to shit like "The Apollo Justice trilogy" only having one game with his name and he argueably has less cases than phoenix (unargueable if we count dlc cases) or AAI2 final case having so many old characters that i guessed the killer via process of elimination.
Capcom doesn't want Phoenix to go away. Even when he is not there, you still play as his rival or his ancestor. It creates this eternal shadow of "when is gumshoe/maya/edgeworth/emma/pearl/XYZ appearing again?"
It's been almost 10 years since spirit of justice and 9 since SoJ released in japan. I wonder if they will do a reboot or a whole new cast because if they want to make a new trilogy then phoenix will just steal the spotlight anyway.
Ace Attorney is stuck in this limbo of Phoenix publicity and nostalgia pandering but also trying to feel fresh by introducing new random gimmicks, main characters and backgrounds. It lead to shit like "The Apollo Justice trilogy" only having one game with his name and he argueably has less cases than phoenix (unargueable if we count dlc cases) or AAI2 final case having so many old characters that i guessed the killer via process of elimination.
Capcom doesn't want Phoenix to go away. Even when he is not there, you still play as his rival or his ancestor. It creates this eternal shadow of "when is gumshoe/maya/edgeworth/emma/pearl/XYZ appearing again?"
It's been almost 10 years since spirit of justice and 9 since SoJ released in japan. I wonder if they will do a reboot or a whole new cast because if they want to make a new trilogy then phoenix will just steal the spotlight anyway.
The great irony is that the Magatama system in the original was the only gimmick they ever needed to balance between the exploration and trial segments. Everything that came afterwards just made one or the other bloated, especially the trial based ones that were mandatory once per session, so you just wait for it to happen so you know you are close to the end.
The great irony is that the Magatama system in the original was the only gimmick they ever needed to balance between the exploration and trial segments. Everything that came afterwards just made one or the other bloated, especially the trial based ones that were mandatory once per session, so you just wait for it to happen so you know you are close to the end.
The issue with a lot of the investigations in the first game is that the goal didn't often expand beyond "gather information" aside from a few moments like trading cards with Cody, or bringing Dee her script (neither of which are looked at fondly, more like busy work.) Gathering information is obviously needed and makes sense in the context of the game's story and structure, but it doesn't provide a whole lot of direction for the player.
Games thrive on clear end goals, both on a large scale and a small scale. The end goal for the cases in general is pretty obvious- solve the crime and get a not guilty verdict. But in the investigations, the goal is more nebulous, just click on clues and talk to people until the game tells you you're done. The Psyche Locks did a great job of correcting this issue. Usually towards the beginning third, you'd meet characters with locks to break. That gives you a clear goal to work through and helps contextualize a lot of the information you're gathering and why. Then in the final third of the investigation, you get to break the locks and learn more about the characters (generally providing some kind of hook for the following trial.) It's a really satisfying progression that helps make the investigation portions feel less meandering and more in line with the trials.
Dual Destinies and SoJ absolutely butchered this by making most (all?) Psyche locks breakable the moment you first see them. The whole point of them providing clear goals and context to the investigation is ruined, they're basically a stretched out version of 'present evidence X to person Y to get dialogue Z.' They don't give you something to keep in mind while gathering clues and wondering "hey, this might be related to what Y was hiding," which is part of what made the locks so good to begin with.
I realize now this is only tangentially related to what you said but I needed to get this off my chest. RIP psyche locks you're just a husk of what you once were and also fuck perceive who thought that was a good idea. You're never given any indication of what sentence or set of words (out of the many that comprise a testimony) trigger the special animation, nor where you should even be looking. At least Dual Destinies made it less tedious but it still adds nothing to the game besides the writers saying "we need the cast to realize this person is hiding something"
I realize now this is only tangentially related to what you said but I needed to get this off my chest. RIP psyche locks you're just a husk of what you once were and also fuck perceive who thought that was a good idea. You're never given any indication of what sentence or set of words (out of the many that comprise a testimony) trigger the special animation, nor where you should even be looking. At least Dual Destinies made it less tedious but it still adds nothing to the game besides the writers saying "we need the cast to realize this person is hiding something"
Even Perceive gets the short stick in later games and becomes a stretch. Why the fuck would an unfeeling spy/assassin start messing with his holster the moment his gun is brought up?
The issue with a lot of the investigations in the first game is that the goal didn't often expand beyond "gather information" aside from a few moments like trading cards with Cody, or bringing Dee her script (neither of which are looked at fondly, more like busy work.) Gathering information is obviously needed and makes sense in the context of the game's story and structure, but it doesn't provide a whole lot of direction for the player.
Games thrive on clear end goals, both on a large scale and a small scale. The end goal for the cases in general is pretty obvious- solve the crime and get a not guilty verdict. But in the investigations, the goal is more nebulous, just click on clues and talk to people until the game tells you you're done. The Psyche Locks did a great job of correcting this issue. Usually towards the beginning third, you'd meet characters with locks to break. That gives you a clear goal to work through and helps contextualize a lot of the information you're gathering and why. Then in the final third of the investigation, you get to break the locks and learn more about the characters (generally providing some kind of hook for the following trial.) It's a really satisfying progression that helps make the investigation portions feel less meandering and more in line with the trials.
Dual Destinies and SoJ absolutely butchered this by making most (all?) Psyche locks breakable the moment you first see them. The whole point of them providing clear goals and context to the investigation is ruined, they're basically a stretched out version of 'present evidence X to person Y to get dialogue Z.' They don't give you something to keep in mind while gathering clues and wondering "hey, this might be related to what Y was hiding," which is part of what made the locks so good to begin with.
I realize now this is only tangentially related to what you said but I needed to get this off my chest. RIP psyche locks you're just a husk of what you once were and also fuck perceive who thought that was a good idea. You're never given any indication of what sentence or set of words (out of the many that comprise a testimony) trigger the special animation, nor where you should even be looking. At least Dual Destinies made it less tedious but it still adds nothing to the game besides the writers saying "we need the cast to realize this person is hiding something"
Don't think this even qualifies as autistic, it's fun to actually talk on game mechanics in the gaming thread, especially when it usually culture wars. I remember that psych locks worked well even within plots when sometimes they either didn't exist because a person was a psychopath or you had so many of them it was intriguing.
A lot of AA-like games don't understand that giving the player multiple days of court proceedings and exploration builds up the characters and world. Yeah the court is the emotional and gameplay climax but if you don't have enough context it doesn't work as well.
It's been almost 10 years since spirit of justice and 9 since SoJ released in japan. I wonder if they will do a reboot or a whole new cast because if they want to make a new trilogy then phoenix will just steal the spotlight anyway.
Well they wrote themselves in a corner with the ending of SOJ. Apollo has his own law firm in a different country, so they can't use him anymore unless they
Make another game entirely based around him (so essentialy AJ x SOJ)
Retcon Apollo -YET AGAIN- and fuck his shit up to where he has to go back to Phoenix
If anything, Athena really should be the main focus of these games now considering she's O.P. as fuck. The problem is that the writers keep making her seem dumb as rocks. The fact the Blackquill had to tell her to get her shit together during the Bucky Whet case is just proof of that. She should have already had her shit together by the time Phoenix cured her anxiety in Dual Destinies.
The great irony is that the Magatama system in the original was the only gimmick they ever needed to balance between the exploration and trial segments. Everything that came afterwards just made one or the other bloated, especially the trial based ones that were mandatory once per session, so you just wait for it to happen so you know you are close to the end.
Magatama was great for it's time and how much sense and symbolism it has, but like glazer said, it got ruined by becoming lame, but i'll also add that it would escalate into phoenix becoming this smug guy who can bluff perfectly and see any lies by apollo and flanderize into "legendary bluffer" by dual destinies.
I think the issue is that Capcom prioritizes making a spectacle out of finding contradictions or dare i say "hype moments and aura" over logic or mechanical depth.
Apollo justice had perceive which on paper is the coolest mechanic ever. You literally zoom at people and spot their body betraying their dishonesty. This also highlights how much more focused on the art quality AJ is and how it impacted design. EVERYONE has some animation gimmick, more breakdowns and more dramatic, the rival (Klavier) is hyper handsome and animated, etc.
But perceive as a mechanic is kinda retarded. It can get boring very fast as you pixel hunt through every sentence and it's simply not evidence, but he can't use out of trial or else it becomes bootleg magatama. It's avaiability is also contrived as sometimes apolo doesn't feel like it. It could be improved but instead they just made the blackquill and nahyuta disable apollo whenever it's convenient.
Dual Destinies introduces a new gimmick on athena's mood matrix, a straight up sci fi way of measuring people's emotions to tell if they're being honest and remember better. It's very pretty to watch as it has a unique UI and it shows art of events that help you grasp what happened much better, but also highlights Dual Destinies characters having 3D models with exaggerated animations to convey the main 4 emotions.
But mood matrix kinda makes the trial even more of a clown court cause there is no way this shit should be legal. For all we know, athena is gaslighting the witness, which she kinda is if you think about it. It's not that mechanically deep as it's basically cross-examine but you find the contradicting emotion and you can't lose either. I dont think it's used outside court too.
SoJ introduces Seance where we see the final moments of the victim through their POV. It's simply an awesome cool oncept and pushes the franchise into explicit magic and fantasy. The mechanic is done by the judge herself who is a tsundere teenage girl who does a dance and everything. It comes with a new nation and extremely high stakes plot that involves LAWYER GENOCIDE.
But Seance is mechanically still kinda cross examination again but more vague and abstract. You have to actually click on the right thing and it can be hard to understand so you get punished. It's also very flawed and even exploitable to the point it almost becomes a joke again.
Investigation wanted to make miles look smart so he has LOGIC. Logic is just connecting clues and morphing them into evidence which is fine as it helps piece the case together but it can feel like padding and it makes no sense that miles "loses health" when you fail. You can't even die from it anyway.
AAI2 has LOGIC CHESS which is supposed to be timed debate where you see glowy chess pieces being thrown elft and right but on practice is an extremely basic flowchart of "wait until they're calm and question with the sane answer (not the obviously wrong one), if you don't have the answer try other branch". It's really simple thing carried by tense music and timer, and after failing once i just mashed.
Great Ace Attorney really wanted to subvert old tropes at the cost of anything but introduced some new mechanics that i found underused and weak. Deduction dance is another overly cute way of doing something extremely smiple which is examining stuff better or turning my neck 15 degrees to the right. This wouldn't be necessary if the game just let me do that by default.
Multi witness is cute again and should be in every game tbh but it's still cross examination, with the possibility of them interrupting your press, so you press inside your press. So you just press everything until you the flash or noise.
Jury is cute again and had a lot of potential but i feel like it never lived up to it, as it's not enough in the game and is never corrupt as the hypes the law system to be. It can get pretty absurd too as witnesses are don't give a fuck or they will miraculously know exactly what you need and save the entire case.
So like, capcom feels like every game must have a new trial gimmick and/or protagonist personal gimmick. They must believe that is part of the game's idendity now, and the priority isn't being super deep or logical but to be "hype" or highlight the new game design and characters.
I forgot to say but trials of innocence had 2 gimmicks too. The game is very linear and mostly easy, you can't get lost, press will usually indicate the right sentence to object and thinking will tell what you're supposed to do, but it has a twist on magatama and a unique new mechanic.
Verity lance is the magatava of the game, it's a tool literally made by the otaku literaly meant to ripoff the magatama. It detects lies and you must argue an option or present something against the liar hoping them to confess, but it actually adds a time limit that goes only when it's your turn to answer which i found better. It's only used when you have all evidence you need of course.
That said, i felt like the timer was too short and there was a bug that made it never stop so lost some times and the person will simply walk away and the reload menu opens which is very anticlimatic. It gets better in later cases and the final one is very dramatic and the closest thing to a boss fight. Thankfulyl it's not a flawless tool as some people can dodge it by twisting their words or simply being completely confident. At one point you talk to a politician who is obviously bullshitting but the dude's "aura" manages to no sell it.
The other is confrontation, where it becomes more like danganronpa where your rival automatically presents sentences in a row with VOICE ACTING in real time and you object ther right one. If you do nothing or object the wrong one you lose hp, and the game will not pause while they talk.
This one looks like cross examination at first but it's more complex because it's not really about finding the contradiction, but to, as the game calls it, "find the weak spot" and "seize the loopholes". I did not understand this and i think confrontation early on was frustrating (especially case 1) but later once you understand it's actually fun and clever.
So like, they will present a chain of arguments that sounds logic in a vaacum. Even if one sentence isn't right or even relevant because that's not the point. If i had to describe, you have to find "the one fake argument that can you can flip against them and they can't prove" because if you don't then the confrontation will drag instead of end. This requires understanding the case as a whole and grasping "the vibes".
For example, in that confrontation Stella argues
1-A pair of sunglasses cant directly cause this case. Not even indirectly!
2-You have no evidence to show the sunglasses reduce the suspiscion of the victim!
3-Even if there is something unusual on them, there is no trace on the surface.
4-A pair of sunglasses with no traces won't affect this case.
The first sounds like an obvious thing to object but it won't do cause she'll just argue back, while 2 and 3 are technically true. 4 sounds logical at first, but if you refute, Charlie will point out that it having no traces is exactly why it affects this case, because that means it's neither the victim's or defendant's so it can only belong to someone else.
If you take these confrontations literally you'll lose as there is no "contradiction" or anything you can press to reveal a contradiction. The game is low budget and i don't get china so it's not as hype as it should be but it's a fun idea.
It's still crazy to me that Ace Attorney never even attempted to have a voice acted gameplay section. Yeah it's not AAA but this is capcom and if ace attorney 6 is going to 60 dollars like the next danganronpa they can't get away with it anymore.
Shit man I would pay for a black quill/Athena game. People shit on their segment in spirit of justice but It actually was a big highlight for me. Their whole arc was gold in my opinion.
