Ace Attorney

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Yeah, this. Even when you ignore how bad, and nonsensical the plot is, things are just wrong. Everyone's either flanderized, OOC, gets shat on for no reason, is just a dick, or is conspicuously absent.

I still can't wrap my head around making a case based of off the premise of pinning the murder of a 250 pound obese man on a little boy, with a literal hand canon used as a murder weapon and that little boy dragged the body across a concert stage. It's like they never gave a shit.
 
I still can't wrap my head around making a case based of off the premise of pinning the murder of a 250 pound obese man on a little boy, with a literal hand canon used as a murder weapon and that little boy dragged the body across a concert stage. It's like they never gave a shit.
Not to mention he's also supposedly a blind little boy, and the game itself admits the gun would've literally broken his arm if he had fired it. Does the game let you use those facts as an actual argument for his innocence?

Fucking no, because why would it? It's Apollo Justice. Logic doesn't exist in it.
 
It wasn't just Phoenix whom got the short end of the stick in Apollo Justice. Every character besides Apollo and maybe Trucy and their mom is a complete asshole.

Phoenix practically ruined Apollo's future job prospects, since he basically made him put his own boss in jail. If his company goes down, Apollo is basically fucked.

Zack Gremaire abandons his own daughter for years only to come back just to ruin Phoenix's poker player reputation.

Emma is a grumpy bitch that throws food at people when she gets angry.

Gumshoe is a moron that "wants to finally beat Phoenix in the courtroom", as if in the games the trials were some autistic battle royale.

The blind kid, Machi, lies to you for no reason.

The kitsune family, besides the dad, were always hostile.

It's like someone in the development team was bitter that they never got to push Apollo properly, so they made everyone an obnoxious asshole just to make Apollo look better,
Not going to lie, Ema was actually fine in Apollo Justice, she was a nice contrast from Gumshoe and was fun. Grumpy Ema had a very fun dynamic with Apollo and Klavier.

But god damn Zak is probably the dumbest motherfucker in the franchise.

I have never seen a character this nonsensical and fuck over so many people (that was until Nahyuta). Yet somehow we are supposed to sympathize with him when he wanted to ruin Phoenix's new career which would've hurt the only line of support available for his daughter.

Not to mention, just abandoning his daughter relying on the off chance that Phoenix would adopt her rather than put her in an orphanage or something.

I still can't wrap my head around making a case based of off the premise of pinning the murder of a 250 pound obese man on a little boy, with a literal hand canon used as a murder weapon and that little boy dragged the body across a concert stage. It's like they never gave a shit.
Not to mention he's also supposedly a blind little boy, and the game itself admits the gun would've literally broken his arm if he had fired it. Does the game let you use those facts as an actual argument for his innocence?

Fucking no, because why would it? It's Apollo Justice. Logic doesn't exist in it.
The funniest defense for this bullshit is "I-IT'S THE POINT, MUH THEMES OF CORRUPTION!"

Even with the most corrupt judicial system in history, this shit wouldn't make sense.

The only way this crap would fly is if Apollo Justice had taken place in Not!India that was introduced in Spirit of Justice.
 
Also, I believe they got a gun fact wrong. From what I heard, 45-caliber is strong, but not that strong. They probably should have said magnum or something.

Any gun spergs who want to correct me are free to do so.
 
I get that this is needed to move the plot along, but it could’ve at least been handled better.
Nah, again, like nearly everybody bitching about AJ "characterization", it's just raging at throwaway dialogue being "too mean" and other autistic nonsense (usually the same people happily consoom character annihilating trash like DD&SoY, though that doesn't necessarily apply to you.)

And complaining about lapses in logic with evidence and procedural shit is retarded and disingenuous. There's shit like "evidence law" that applied to one case in the grand total of the series and never shows up again (though the case was made after the fact for the DS port). 2nd case of the series, someone's sister is accused of murdering them for no discernible reason and everybody is fine with that.

You can do the exact same thing to every one of the games and have the same results. 3-5 turns into a comedy of retardation and everybody involved comes across like the dumbest pieces of shit ever if you think about it for more than 2 seconds. Yet AJ is the only game that gets this scrutiny and ensuing autistic fucking meltdowns.

Edit: Like, take this hyper autistic faggotry about individual lines of dialogue. If people weren't disingenuous faggots they'd start whinging about 1-5 starting with an emo monologue by Phoenix and how he stopped taking cases and how that is oh so character ruiningly out of character *crying.mp4*. Nobody does that. Because it's fucking retarded and a possible way to diagnose asperger's.

And not, the parrot shit is fucking stupid and always has been stupid. It says 2 random bits of information and the judge goes "I'm convinced!" when Phoenix bullshits together an interpretation. Thing is, you (royal you I mean) understand that it's just a story and this is meant to show desperation on the part of the hero so you roll with it. It's a necessary part for the story the game wants to tell. The last, sad gambit of a rookie lawyer getting trounced by the best prosecutor there is. But wouldn't you know it, it works! Providence.

Whereas if you applied the same shrieking faggot routine to it, you (again, royal you) should have a nervous episode about how anybody in that courtroom allowing Phoenix to call the parrot to the stand should instead tell him to fuck off and end the trial right there, maybe even throw him out of the building on his ass. Claiming that this ruins all suspension of disbelief about the fictional court and the game allowing Phoenix to pull this shit is bad, contrived writing.
Apollo barely does anything in the last trial on his own. I get that he’s a noob, but it makes him underdeveloped and lack his own identity as a character by barely doing anything in the last case of his own game.

It’s fine to have Phoenix have one last hurrah, but it shouldn’t overshadow the new generation in a “passing the torch” story.

It doesn’t help in the trial, Kristoph is beaten with only one cross examination. If there was more of a fight put up on Kristoph’s behalf, it could at least remedy the issue since Apollo is doing a lot of legwork in the trial to bring him down, but it’s just one cross examination.
I don't like the fact that the final cross-examination is so short either. I would've preferred it if there was a cross-examination involving Valant first to build up the Kristoph accusation and to wrap-up the Magnifi case in a more full-circle manner. (As in, it parallels the previous trial where Phoenix, Valant & Klavier were involved.)

But as far as Apollo's character and usage? It's completely fine. People really, and I do mean, really do not seem to comprehend how much of the protagonists raison d'etre in Shu Takumi's AA games is to try to become and grow as lawyers. In AJ, this takes the form of Apollo having to revive the disgraced practice of Wright and having to put to bed the case that ended his career. Takumi very smartly tied this into the main theme of the game, that being the new generation taking over and moving into a new era. Apollo, still being a novice, does not have the licks to contribute to the discourse about the law changing and Kristoph, his former mentor being a relic of the past.

His big takeaway is that he needs to learn more... because he's a fucking noob. See you in a sequel that never gets made. In many ways this parallels Phoenix's development at the end of AA1.
unfortunately cBB is right here:

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘cBB is right here.’“​

It’s to a point where it’s believable that if he is behind AA7, Apollo could have a new backstory where it turns out that Jove was a top secret agent who tried to stop some cartoony super villain.
Nobody has to worry about Yamazaki making an AA game ever again. He hasn't worked at Capcom for about 4 years. Neither is the producer (Motohide) for the last few games actually.
 
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I have a soft spot for Apollo purely because he gets shit on constantly. Loses his dad, loses his adoptive dad, loses his best friend, never finds out he still has living family (Trucy and Thalassa), has to open his law firm in a shithole country. SAAR I NEED LAW ADVICE SAAR.
 
I have a soft spot for Apollo purely because he gets shit on constantly. Loses his dad, loses his adoptive dad, loses his best friend, never finds out he still has living family (Trucy and Thalassa), has to open his law firm in a shithole country. SAAR I NEED LAW ADVICE SAAR.
The fact that they have to give Apollo a new backstory in every game just so he can stay relevent is quite telling.

Like what else is left? They can't do anything else new with him at this point unless they make another solo game with him WITHOUT any of the previous characters (except for the kid in Spirits of Justice that wanted to be his sidekick or whatever), and even then it would just be Spirits Of Justice 2 Electric Boogaloo because they have to keep the water hints mechanic since it's tied to that country he's working in.
 
The fact that they have to give Apollo a new backstory in every game just so he can stay relevent is quite telling.

Like what else is left? They can't do anything else new with him at this point unless they make another solo game with him WITHOUT any of the previous characters (except for the kid in Spirits of Justice that wanted to be his sidekick or whatever), and even then it would just be Spirits Of Justice 2 Electric Boogaloo because they have to keep the water hints mechanic since it's tied to that country he's working in.
Like the only thing Apollo has left is the Thalassa thing which they’re going to finally reveal it in a case she’s been accused of or have her killed off.

Otherwise if they continue in the direction 5 and 6 had, even without Yamazaki’s control. The Jove secret agent idea won’t be far off.

Man I just hope AA7 just lowers the stakes since 5 and 6’s main plots felt extremely over the top, even if I liked stuff in it.
 
Not to mention he's also supposedly a blind little boy, and the game itself admits the gun would've literally broken his arm if he had fired it. Does the game let you use those facts as an actual argument for his innocence?

Fucking no, because why would it? It's Apollo Justice. Logic doesn't exist in it.
Now I am curious. What other examples like this are there? In the franchise I mean. Logic wise.
 
Now I am curious. What other examples like this are there? In the franchise I mean. Logic wise.
There's the very second case of the series. Maya is accused of killing Mia by bashing her in the head with a heavy clock statue while the latter is running away. The only problem is that Maya is really short, and not that strong, so her being able to do that would be incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.
 
There's the very second case of the series. Maya is accused of killing Mia by bashing her in the head with a heavy clock statue while the latter is running away. The only problem is that Maya is really short, and not that strong, so her being able to do that would be incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.
Dee Vasquez pushing Jack onto the fence too. I wish we had seen her in future entries. I know her sister is in the manga. Anyway the same fence from 5 years ago was apparently not replaced...

Also wasn't the Thinker supposed to be kept in evidence storage? I know Mia had it but like.....it made contact with Cindy Stone's head.

Big Top has probably the dumbest motive. Wow. Colorful characters though.
 
There's the very second case of the series. Maya is accused of killing Mia by bashing her in the head with a heavy clock statue while the latter is running away. The only problem is that Maya is really short, and not that strong, so her being able to do that would be incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.

Not to mention that the prosecution never mentioned what could have possibly been her motive.
 
Big Top has probably the dumbest motive. Wow. Colorful characters though
Big Top would've been so much better if Regina was the villain. Hell, the game even seems to be implying that at first because it specifically notes just how unbothered she is by her dad being fucking murdered.

It wouldn't make it a masterpiece, but it would make things a lot less dumb.

Edit: I just realized the circus gave us both the worst villain, and the best villain. How the fuck did that happen?
 
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Now I am curious. What other examples like this are there? In the franchise I mean. Logic wise.

You could practically make an argument for every case being a clusterfuck. Yet, I think the worst of it all is Apollo Justice's last case since it fucks with its own universe's rules.

The MASON system is, in theory, a tool to present evidence to a jury from the perspective of a witness. That was the purpose of the camera in Phoenix's hobo hat. In reality, the whole sequence is presented as a time travel trip where Phoenix presents evidence from the future to witnesses from the past.

There's the very second case of the series. Maya is accused of killing Mia by bashing her in the head with a heavy clock statue while the latter is running away. The only problem is that Maya is really short, and not that strong, so her being able to do that would be incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.

That one hurts the most to me. Mia by all intents and purposes didn't need to die. She could have been alive throughout the whole series and almost nothing would have changed.
 
The best thing to come out of Apollo Justice was the Hiimdaisy Comic. Just the Gramaryes almost all being assholes and psychopaths is always fun.

The fact that it actually kept coming true with Mr. Reus in Spirit of Justice as well...
 

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There's the very second case of the series. Maya is accused of killing Mia by bashing her in the head with a heavy clock statue while the latter is running away. The only problem is that Maya is really short, and not that strong, so her being able to do that would be incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.
Honestly that one didn’t bother me since a lot of the case establishes how Redd White basically controls the entire court and is almost untouchable because of his wealth and the blackmail he holds over others. It doesn’t get any more blatant than when he orders the Chief Prosecutor to change the subject to Phoenix.

Now I am curious. What other examples like this are there? In the franchise I mean. Logic wise.
There’s the finale of Spirit of Justice where rather than the murder itself being illogical, it’s the trial because it’s in the most blatantly corrupt country to ever exist and the prosecutor is the ruler of that country who openly used a firing squad to murder a witness but never once just used one on the main characters who would be undermining her.
 
There’s the finale of Spirit of Justice where rather than the murder itself being illogical, it’s the trial because it’s in the most blatantly corrupt country to ever exist and the prosecutor is the ruler of that country who openly used a firing squad to murder a witness but never once just used one on the main characters who would be undermining her.
That case is a complete clownshow, after Nahyuta switches sides and decides to help Phoenix and Apollo she summons the royal guard and has them point guns at their heads but not shoot at them right away because they have to let Apollo defeat her with facts and logic Ben Shapiro epic style first by saying that she doesn't have the Mandate of Heaven required to be a legitimate ruler of Poojeet'in. I mean quite frankly the only cases that make sense in that game are the 4th one and the first part of the 5th one because they take place back in the US, the courts in Poojeet'in are so fucking cartoonishly corrupt that I can't believe that they'd let Phoenix just do the shit he did in the first 3 cases of the game and that the judge magistrate would suddenly be reasonable enough to let him do lawyering in a country where no lawyering has been done for more than two fucking decades.
 
That case is a complete clownshow, after Nahyuta switches sides and decides to help Phoenix and Apollo she summons the royal guard and has them point guns at their heads but not shoot at them right away because they have to let Apollo defeat her with facts and logic Ben Shapiro epic style first by saying that she doesn't have the Mandate of Heaven required to be a legitimate ruler of Poojeet'in. I mean quite frankly the only cases that make sense in that game are the 4th one and the first part of the 5th one because they take place back in the US, the courts in Poojeet'in are so fucking cartoonishly corrupt that I can't believe that they'd let Phoenix just do the shit he did in the first 3 cases of the game and that the judge magistrate would suddenly be reasonable enough to let him do lawyering in a country where no lawyering has been done for more than two fucking decades.
Well there was the second case which is the best one in that game which was also in Japanifornia.

But the final case is such a shitshow, like don’t get me started on Nahyuta’s forced redemption arc
 
Reading through the thread makes me miss how relatively grounded the cases were during the first and second game.
 
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