South Africa Collapses - Another one bites the dust

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What do you say now, you racist whiteoids?
 
atleast3letterslong said:
I can't read Afrikaans so I can't confirm that's what the article says
Click to expand...
Clicked on the link, the title:
Bejaarde (78 ) in ouetehuis verkrag, gemartel
Elderly (78 ) raped and tortured in retirement home (or more literally Elderly (78 ) in retirement home raped, tortured).

But the article itself is behind a paywall (well they do have a 30 day free trial but I think the title gives a good enough idea).
 
Coverage from NYT strangely focused on looter regret, hints at a broader food crisis unfolding
archive.is

Regrets in South Africa After Lives and Livelihoods Lost in Mass Unre…

archived 15 Jul 2021 20:43:18 UTC
archive.is archive.is

Regrets in South Africa After Lives and Livelihoods Lost in Mass Unrest​

The manager of a looted supermarket in Soweto and a man who joined in ransacking it reflect on the causes and consequences of some of the worst unrest to hit parts of South Africa since the fall of apartheid.



Relatives mourning near the body of 13-year-old Vusi Dlamini, who was reportedly shot during a confrontation between looters and community members in Vosloorus on Wednesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times
By John Eligon
July 15, 2021, 4:20 p.m. ET
SOWETO, South Africa — Gingerly stepping over the slick, muddied floor of a supermarket in Soweto that had just been emptied and gutted by looters, the manager fretted over where neighbors would now get their food and how he would support his wife and four children.
“Our livelihoods are gone,” said Tau Chikonye, the 44-year-old manager, who had worked at the market known as the Supa Store for 13 years.
Nearby, standing in front of his five-bedroom home, a laid-off hotel worker who had joined in the looting — carting away flour, chicken, Pepsi and dog food to his family — contemplated the damage that had been wrought: His community no longer had a store nearby for shopping.
“I feel horrible,” said the unemployed hospitality worker, Sifiso, who asked that his last name be withheld for fear of being arrested.
South Africa has been rocked to its core over the last week by looting and vandalism that has left at least 117 people dead and hundreds of millions of dollars in damage, officials said. It was among the worst violence and unrest the country had seen in the nearly 30 years since the end of apartheid.
The government has deployed 10,000 troops to quell the violence, and the defense minister requested 15,000 more. As tensions cooled a bit on Thursday, many were bracing for a difficult road ahead.
The turbulence was initially triggered by the imprisonment last week of South Africa’s former president, Jacob Zuma, for defying a court order to testify in a corruption inquiry. Mr. Zuma, though scarred by extensive allegations of graft, nevertheless retains a loyal following.
But the unrest quickly became about broader grievances against the government and its failure to uphold the promises of a democratic South Africa. It was as though the lid blew off a pot that had been boiling for years.
“People lose their conscience,” said Sifiso, the hotel worker, who is 32 and lost his job last year in the pandemic-induced shutdowns. “The government is failing us, meaning that they don’t care about how we feel as the people of South Africa. If it means we are going to a mall to loot or to block a road for the government to actually hear people’s cries, then so be it.”


Image
Police officers guard a man suspected of looting in Soweto on Tuesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times


Image
A looted and vandalized store in Soweto on Tuesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times
Hourslong lines for food and gas have formed in the coastal city of Durban and in the Johannesburg area after the unrest destroyed supplies and disrupted delivery chains. Government officials were managing a volatile dynamic in which residents in some communities were taking up arms to defend their neighborhoods, with fears of vigilante justice inflaming racial tensions.
All of this is unfolding as South Africa is battling a devastating wave of coronavirus infections, which could become worse after looters without masks on packed stores.
Unemployment, which has climbed above 32 percent in part because of the pandemic, also will almost certainly increase as thousands suddenly become jobless because the businesses where they worked have been destroyed.
“We are all going to suffer,” said Leonard Ncube, standing outside of Boxer, a battered department store in Soweto where he was a manager, as community members swept up shattered glass and trash that littered the parking lot. He now had no job, and a household of seven people to support.
The violence has presented the biggest challenge of President Cyril Ramaphosa’s three-year tenure. Political opponents and citizens have criticized his response as slow, and called on him to be more assertive. He also has had to grapple with challenges to his leadership from within his own party, the African National Congress. He and his cabinet ministers have in recent days met with community members as well as political, faith and business leaders in an effort to restore confidence.
After Mr. Ramaphosa’s predecessor, Mr. Zuma, was imprisoned last week, Zuma supporters, long at odds with the current president, called for communities to rise up in protest. The demonstrations started in Mr. Zuma’s home province of KwaZulu-Natal last week, and quickly spiraled out of control and spread to Gauteng, a more prosperous province where Johannesburg is located.


Image
South African military and police forces were deployed around the country, including in Vosloorus this week, to help quell the increasing violence.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times


Image
Police officers and members of the community in Vosloorus attempt to reason with looters on Wednesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times
In interviews with people in Soweto on Wednesday as the situation calmed, several said they had been sucked in to the looting because they saw others doing it. Some said they were after basic necessities that were often difficult to secure in this dire economy.
Others were simply after liquor, which they have not been able to purchase in recent weeks because of a ban on liquor sales as part of the nation’s coronavirus restrictions.
Mr. Zuma’s name was barely mentioned.
Sifiso’s story was typical of many: He first heard about the looting on Monday through a phone call from a friend working at a mall, he said. He went and helped some of his friends load liquor from the mall, then heard from another friend that people were rummaging through the Supa Store in the Soweto community of Dlamini, near his home. He said his refrigerator was empty, and he was worried that the looting would deplete supplies.
So he joined in to go pick up goods for his wife and two children. The store was so packed, he said, that he had to push his way in and wade, shoulder-to-shoulder, through a sea of people. The few police officers outside of the store could do nothing to stop the swarm of looters.
He realized his regrets later, as he was helping an older woman into a taxi. She told him that she had to go to a mall to get groceries because the supermarket had been destroyed. He had to break the news to her that the mall had been looted as well, and the realization of what he’d done hit him then.
“Our elderly people that are actually relying on these supermarkets or shopping centers that are close to the location — they’re looted,” he said. “So now it’s those people that are actually suffering.”


Image
Men carrying a refrigerator in Vosloorus on Tuesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times


Image
Suspected looters detained by police officers and security guards at a shopping mall in Vosloorus on Tuesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times
But the suffering predated the recent unrest. People were already being laid off. Those still working are seeing their salaries slashed. The cost of goods is rising. Basic services are failing.
Sifiso said his neighborhood was without power for nine months. Residents had to pay to get the public utility to install new equipment for electricity to be restored.
Many are angry at reports of corruption by public officials, which have eroded the government’s moral authority and made the promises of Nelson Mandela’s South Africa seem elusive.
Mr. Chikonye, the manager of Supa Store, said he could understand the anger and disillusionment of the looters who stole food from the market, but he could not understand why they had destroyed the building.
“Why are we burning the very resources we need that actually are going to uplift us?” he said. “If we want to protest, we protest in another way. But not to come and destroy resources.”


Image
Debris scattered around the parking lot of a shopping mall near Johannesburg on Tuesday.Credit...Joao Silva/The New York Times
The store did 150,000 transactions a month, but now it is darkened and ravaged as if a tornado tore through it. Beyond a large banner of a smiling family at the entrance is the detritus of the products the store once sold: flattened cornflakes packaging, juice boxes, soda cans. The shelves are completely empty. Bags of ice are all that are left in the freezer.
The owner of Supa Store, which was to celebrate its 20th birthday in September, has vowed to reopen. But there is no telling when that will be, Mr. Chikonye said, and the roughly 300 employees are left in limbo. He said he has already talked to his wife about ways to make money in the interim — perhaps getting eggs from a chicken farm and selling them on the street.
“It is the most overwhelming thing,” he said. “I really have to get down to the drawing board and see how to survive.”
Click to expand...
 
I don't think this has been posted, interesting timing on the proposal for this amendment. Presented in a surprisingly fair and balanced fashion so I encourage giving them the traffic.

ewn.co.za

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
ewn.co.za ewn.co.za
web.archive.org

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
web.archive.org web.archive.org



Kaylynn Palm | 39 days ago

CAPE TOWN - The Police Ministry has already received more than 85,000 submissions on the proposed amendments to the firearms bill.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill 2021 replaces the previous bill that was submitted to Cabinet in February 2015.
Two weeks ago, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service published a call for public comment on the bill.
The proposed amendments have reopened the perennial debate on firearm ownership and sparked outrage among gun owners.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill has gun owners, opposition political parties, and civic organisations up in arms.
Amongst other things, it seeks to prohibit the issuing of licences for firearms bought for self-defence.
Some have described it as 'madness', 'idiotic' and 'reckless'.
Police Minister Bheki Cele disagrees, saying that the amendments aren't an attempt to disarm citizens, but rather an attempt to build a safer South Africa.
Unlike the US constitution, our founding document does not enshrine the right to own or bear arms.
GUN OWNERSHIP 'A PRIVILEGE'
Gun Free South Africa has welcomed the proposed amendments, underlining the fact that in this country, owning a firearm is a privilege, not a right.
“It’s very clear. It’s unambiguous and revolves around reducing the number of guns in circulation in this country. So globally that’s called non-proliferation and so the amendments are aligning South Africa with its legal obligations as well as global norms,” said the organisation's Adele Kirsten.
“But it’s also very clear that they have looked at what the scientific evidence is around controlling weapons.”
Kirsten's organisation gave input into the amendments, including research suggesting that cutting back on legal gun ownership would lower the level of violence.
“The evidence is overwhelming and that has to be the focus. Can this law help us reduce gun deaths?
“For us, that seems to be quite a driving force here,” said Kirsten.
GUN OWNERS: DATA IS FLAWED
But gun owners say this is rubbish.
Gun Owners of South Africa chairperson Paul Oxley said the research just wasn't applicable.
“What is quite awkward is that the SAPS has no data whatsoever except the data that has been sent to them by Gun Free South Africa and one or two others. The problem is that this data is completely flawed. They keep talking about what the research shows and international norms and standards, but it’s all rubbish,” said Oxley.
“None of it refers or relates to South Africa. South Africa is a sovereign republic. We are not subject to international norms and standards and our Constitution guarantees us the right to life.”
And Oxley believes that as an extension to that right, citizens have the right to defend life.
MIXED VIEWS
The issue of gun ownership is always divisive, even more so in a nation that suffers from very high murder rates, and contact crime rates.
And the proposed amendments have again sparked debate among the average South African.
“In the locations there are too many crooks and skollies. If you are going to work, you are scared, waking up in the morning you are fearful," said a Cape Town woman.
"So if I had the opportunity to buy a gun, I would. If you are using a gun for self-defence, I don’t think it’s fair for it to be taken away from you.”
Similarly, a man told Eyewitness News that if he could afford a gun, he would buy one.
“When are the police going to come? If you have a gun, you can defend yourself.”
A second man said: “We can’t allow this. This is totally wrong of the government to come back at us now for failing the people out there. They can’t handle the crime that is happening with firearms in the Western Cape or Johannesburg, and all over South Africa. Now they think banning firearms will stop this thing.”
However, another man Eyewitness News spoke to said he wouldn’t buy a firearm as it was dangerous.
Feeling anxious about crime is commonplace in South Africa, and as one Capetonian man explained, after coming face to face with criminals during a home invasion in 2016 – during which the family was tied up and threatened with firearms – he decided to buy a gun.
“I felt pretty worthless and from that, I knew I was going to get a firearm just so I could protect myself if I was ever put in a situation like that again. I haven’t had to use my firearm, but I would rather have a firearm and not need it, than not have a firearm and need it.”
WORTH THE RISK?
Gun Free South Africa acknowledged many people felt more secure with a weapon, but are they actually safer?
“We are there to provide information and evidence that demonstrates that it’s more risky," said Kirsten
"The second is to say have you thought of the alternatives? What else can you do to improve your safety? A gun in a home poses risks for all members in the household.
"So as Gun Free South Africa, we are saying confront the evidence, is it worth the risk? And only you as an individual can answer that.”
Gun Owners of South Africa said while the proposed ban on licences for personal protection weapons was ridiculous, there were likely to be far broader effects.
“It’s going to touch every aspect of firearm ownership. It’s going to kill sports shooting. It’s going to kill the hunting industry. It’s going to kill the private security industry.
"If self-defence is no longer a reason for owning a firearm, that means there is no rationale for having armed security guards. There is also no rationale for having policemen armed because the only reason policemen carry guns is for self-defence,” said Oxley.
Last week the Democratic Alliance (DA) launched a petition against the bill, and according to the party, it already had 65,000 signatures.
Action Society and DearSA are also running public participation processes on the matter.
The public has until 4 July to comment.
 
Dick Justice said:
I don't think this has been posted, interesting timing on the proposal for this amendment. Presented in a surprisingly fair and balanced fashion so I encourage giving them the traffic.

ewn.co.za

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
ewn.co.za ewn.co.za
web.archive.org

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
web.archive.org web.archive.org



Kaylynn Palm | 39 days ago

CAPE TOWN - The Police Ministry has already received more than 85,000 submissions on the proposed amendments to the firearms bill.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill 2021 replaces the previous bill that was submitted to Cabinet in February 2015.
Two weeks ago, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service published a call for public comment on the bill.
The proposed amendments have reopened the perennial debate on firearm ownership and sparked outrage among gun owners.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill has gun owners, opposition political parties, and civic organisations up in arms.
Amongst other things, it seeks to prohibit the issuing of licences for firearms bought for self-defence.
Some have described it as 'madness', 'idiotic' and 'reckless'.
Police Minister Bheki Cele disagrees, saying that the amendments aren't an attempt to disarm citizens, but rather an attempt to build a safer South Africa.
Unlike the US constitution, our founding document does not enshrine the right to own or bear arms.
GUN OWNERSHIP 'A PRIVILEGE'
Gun Free South Africa has welcomed the proposed amendments, underlining the fact that in this country, owning a firearm is a privilege, not a right.
“It’s very clear. It’s unambiguous and revolves around reducing the number of guns in circulation in this country. So globally that’s called non-proliferation and so the amendments are aligning South Africa with its legal obligations as well as global norms,” said the organisation's Adele Kirsten.
“But it’s also very clear that they have looked at what the scientific evidence is around controlling weapons.”
Kirsten's organisation gave input into the amendments, including research suggesting that cutting back on legal gun ownership would lower the level of violence.
“The evidence is overwhelming and that has to be the focus. Can this law help us reduce gun deaths?
“For us, that seems to be quite a driving force here,” said Kirsten.
GUN OWNERS: DATA IS FLAWED
But gun owners say this is rubbish.
Gun Owners of South Africa chairperson Paul Oxley said the research just wasn't applicable.
“What is quite awkward is that the SAPS has no data whatsoever except the data that has been sent to them by Gun Free South Africa and one or two others. The problem is that this data is completely flawed. They keep talking about what the research shows and international norms and standards, but it’s all rubbish,” said Oxley.
“None of it refers or relates to South Africa. South Africa is a sovereign republic. We are not subject to international norms and standards and our Constitution guarantees us the right to life.”
And Oxley believes that as an extension to that right, citizens have the right to defend life.
MIXED VIEWS
The issue of gun ownership is always divisive, even more so in a nation that suffers from very high murder rates, and contact crime rates.
And the proposed amendments have again sparked debate among the average South African.
“In the locations there are too many crooks and skollies. If you are going to work, you are scared, waking up in the morning you are fearful," said a Cape Town woman.
"So if I had the opportunity to buy a gun, I would. If you are using a gun for self-defence, I don’t think it’s fair for it to be taken away from you.”
Similarly, a man told Eyewitness News that if he could afford a gun, he would buy one.
“When are the police going to come? If you have a gun, you can defend yourself.”
A second man said: “We can’t allow this. This is totally wrong of the government to come back at us now for failing the people out there. They can’t handle the crime that is happening with firearms in the Western Cape or Johannesburg, and all over South Africa. Now they think banning firearms will stop this thing.”
However, another man Eyewitness News spoke to said he wouldn’t buy a firearm as it was dangerous.
Feeling anxious about crime is commonplace in South Africa, and as one Capetonian man explained, after coming face to face with criminals during a home invasion in 2016 – during which the family was tied up and threatened with firearms – he decided to buy a gun.
“I felt pretty worthless and from that, I knew I was going to get a firearm just so I could protect myself if I was ever put in a situation like that again. I haven’t had to use my firearm, but I would rather have a firearm and not need it, than not have a firearm and need it.”
WORTH THE RISK?
Gun Free South Africa acknowledged many people felt more secure with a weapon, but are they actually safer?
“We are there to provide information and evidence that demonstrates that it’s more risky," said Kirsten
"The second is to say have you thought of the alternatives? What else can you do to improve your safety? A gun in a home poses risks for all members in the household.
"So as Gun Free South Africa, we are saying confront the evidence, is it worth the risk? And only you as an individual can answer that.”
Gun Owners of South Africa said while the proposed ban on licences for personal protection weapons was ridiculous, there were likely to be far broader effects.
“It’s going to touch every aspect of firearm ownership. It’s going to kill sports shooting. It’s going to kill the hunting industry. It’s going to kill the private security industry.
"If self-defence is no longer a reason for owning a firearm, that means there is no rationale for having armed security guards. There is also no rationale for having policemen armed because the only reason policemen carry guns is for self-defence,” said Oxley.
Last week the Democratic Alliance (DA) launched a petition against the bill, and according to the party, it already had 65,000 signatures.
Action Society and DearSA are also running public participation processes on the matter.
The public has until 4 July to comment.
Click to expand...
If they're not complete idiots (lul), I'd day this amendment is dead for the foreseeable future
 
Dick Justice said:
I don't think this has been posted, interesting timing on the proposal for this amendment. Presented in a surprisingly fair and balanced fashion so I encourage giving them the traffic.

ewn.co.za

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
ewn.co.za ewn.co.za
web.archive.org

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
web.archive.org web.archive.org



Kaylynn Palm | 39 days ago

CAPE TOWN - The Police Ministry has already received more than 85,000 submissions on the proposed amendments to the firearms bill.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill 2021 replaces the previous bill that was submitted to Cabinet in February 2015.
Two weeks ago, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service published a call for public comment on the bill.
The proposed amendments have reopened the perennial debate on firearm ownership and sparked outrage among gun owners.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill has gun owners, opposition political parties, and civic organisations up in arms.
Amongst other things, it seeks to prohibit the issuing of licences for firearms bought for self-defence.
Some have described it as 'madness', 'idiotic' and 'reckless'.
Police Minister Bheki Cele disagrees, saying that the amendments aren't an attempt to disarm citizens, but rather an attempt to build a safer South Africa.
Unlike the US constitution, our founding document does not enshrine the right to own or bear arms.
GUN OWNERSHIP 'A PRIVILEGE'
Gun Free South Africa has welcomed the proposed amendments, underlining the fact that in this country, owning a firearm is a privilege, not a right.
“It’s very clear. It’s unambiguous and revolves around reducing the number of guns in circulation in this country. So globally that’s called non-proliferation and so the amendments are aligning South Africa with its legal obligations as well as global norms,” said the organisation's Adele Kirsten.
“But it’s also very clear that they have looked at what the scientific evidence is around controlling weapons.”
Kirsten's organisation gave input into the amendments, including research suggesting that cutting back on legal gun ownership would lower the level of violence.
“The evidence is overwhelming and that has to be the focus. Can this law help us reduce gun deaths?
“For us, that seems to be quite a driving force here,” said Kirsten.
GUN OWNERS: DATA IS FLAWED
But gun owners say this is rubbish.
Gun Owners of South Africa chairperson Paul Oxley said the research just wasn't applicable.
“What is quite awkward is that the SAPS has no data whatsoever except the data that has been sent to them by Gun Free South Africa and one or two others. The problem is that this data is completely flawed. They keep talking about what the research shows and international norms and standards, but it’s all rubbish,” said Oxley.
“None of it refers or relates to South Africa. South Africa is a sovereign republic. We are not subject to international norms and standards and our Constitution guarantees us the right to life.”
And Oxley believes that as an extension to that right, citizens have the right to defend life.
MIXED VIEWS
The issue of gun ownership is always divisive, even more so in a nation that suffers from very high murder rates, and contact crime rates.
And the proposed amendments have again sparked debate among the average South African.
“In the locations there are too many crooks and skollies. If you are going to work, you are scared, waking up in the morning you are fearful," said a Cape Town woman.
"So if I had the opportunity to buy a gun, I would. If you are using a gun for self-defence, I don’t think it’s fair for it to be taken away from you.”
Similarly, a man told Eyewitness News that if he could afford a gun, he would buy one.
“When are the police going to come? If you have a gun, you can defend yourself.”
A second man said: “We can’t allow this. This is totally wrong of the government to come back at us now for failing the people out there. They can’t handle the crime that is happening with firearms in the Western Cape or Johannesburg, and all over South Africa. Now they think banning firearms will stop this thing.”
However, another man Eyewitness News spoke to said he wouldn’t buy a firearm as it was dangerous.
Feeling anxious about crime is commonplace in South Africa, and as one Capetonian man explained, after coming face to face with criminals during a home invasion in 2016 – during which the family was tied up and threatened with firearms – he decided to buy a gun.
“I felt pretty worthless and from that, I knew I was going to get a firearm just so I could protect myself if I was ever put in a situation like that again. I haven’t had to use my firearm, but I would rather have a firearm and not need it, than not have a firearm and need it.”
WORTH THE RISK?
Gun Free South Africa acknowledged many people felt more secure with a weapon, but are they actually safer?
“We are there to provide information and evidence that demonstrates that it’s more risky," said Kirsten
"The second is to say have you thought of the alternatives? What else can you do to improve your safety? A gun in a home poses risks for all members in the household.
"So as Gun Free South Africa, we are saying confront the evidence, is it worth the risk? And only you as an individual can answer that.”
Gun Owners of South Africa said while the proposed ban on licences for personal protection weapons was ridiculous, there were likely to be far broader effects.
“It’s going to touch every aspect of firearm ownership. It’s going to kill sports shooting. It’s going to kill the hunting industry. It’s going to kill the private security industry.
"If self-defence is no longer a reason for owning a firearm, that means there is no rationale for having armed security guards. There is also no rationale for having policemen armed because the only reason policemen carry guns is for self-defence,” said Oxley.
Last week the Democratic Alliance (DA) launched a petition against the bill, and according to the party, it already had 65,000 signatures.
Action Society and DearSA are also running public participation processes on the matter.
The public has until 4 July to comment.
Click to expand...
I thought they all ready passed restrictive as fuck gun laws a few years ago? If they are moving that to a ban despite the current lawlessness and violence people are going to start fleeing in a hurry.
 
Dick Justice said:
I don't think this has been posted, interesting timing on the proposal for this amendment. Presented in a surprisingly fair and balanced fashion so I encourage giving them the traffic.

ewn.co.za

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
ewn.co.za ewn.co.za
web.archive.org

Up in arms: Planned changes to gun ownership laws divide South Africans

If proposed amendments to South African firearm ownership laws are approved, it will be illegal to own a gun for self-defence. This has prompted heated public debate and submissions to the Police Ministry. Eyewitness News looks at both sides of the issue.
web.archive.org web.archive.org



Kaylynn Palm | 39 days ago

CAPE TOWN - The Police Ministry has already received more than 85,000 submissions on the proposed amendments to the firearms bill.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill 2021 replaces the previous bill that was submitted to Cabinet in February 2015.
Two weeks ago, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service published a call for public comment on the bill.
The proposed amendments have reopened the perennial debate on firearm ownership and sparked outrage among gun owners.
The Firearms Control Amendment Bill has gun owners, opposition political parties, and civic organisations up in arms.
Amongst other things, it seeks to prohibit the issuing of licences for firearms bought for self-defence.
Some have described it as 'madness', 'idiotic' and 'reckless'.
Police Minister Bheki Cele disagrees, saying that the amendments aren't an attempt to disarm citizens, but rather an attempt to build a safer South Africa.
Unlike the US constitution, our founding document does not enshrine the right to own or bear arms.
GUN OWNERSHIP 'A PRIVILEGE'
Gun Free South Africa has welcomed the proposed amendments, underlining the fact that in this country, owning a firearm is a privilege, not a right.
“It’s very clear. It’s unambiguous and revolves around reducing the number of guns in circulation in this country. So globally that’s called non-proliferation and so the amendments are aligning South Africa with its legal obligations as well as global norms,” said the organisation's Adele Kirsten.
“But it’s also very clear that they have looked at what the scientific evidence is around controlling weapons.”
Kirsten's organisation gave input into the amendments, including research suggesting that cutting back on legal gun ownership would lower the level of violence.
“The evidence is overwhelming and that has to be the focus. Can this law help us reduce gun deaths?
“For us, that seems to be quite a driving force here,” said Kirsten.
GUN OWNERS: DATA IS FLAWED
But gun owners say this is rubbish.
Gun Owners of South Africa chairperson Paul Oxley said the research just wasn't applicable.
“What is quite awkward is that the SAPS has no data whatsoever except the data that has been sent to them by Gun Free South Africa and one or two others. The problem is that this data is completely flawed. They keep talking about what the research shows and international norms and standards, but it’s all rubbish,” said Oxley.
“None of it refers or relates to South Africa. South Africa is a sovereign republic. We are not subject to international norms and standards and our Constitution guarantees us the right to life.”
And Oxley believes that as an extension to that right, citizens have the right to defend life.
MIXED VIEWS
The issue of gun ownership is always divisive, even more so in a nation that suffers from very high murder rates, and contact crime rates.
And the proposed amendments have again sparked debate among the average South African.
“In the locations there are too many crooks and skollies. If you are going to work, you are scared, waking up in the morning you are fearful," said a Cape Town woman.
"So if I had the opportunity to buy a gun, I would. If you are using a gun for self-defence, I don’t think it’s fair for it to be taken away from you.”
Similarly, a man told Eyewitness News that if he could afford a gun, he would buy one.
“When are the police going to come? If you have a gun, you can defend yourself.”
A second man said: “We can’t allow this. This is totally wrong of the government to come back at us now for failing the people out there. They can’t handle the crime that is happening with firearms in the Western Cape or Johannesburg, and all over South Africa. Now they think banning firearms will stop this thing.”
However, another man Eyewitness News spoke to said he wouldn’t buy a firearm as it was dangerous.
Feeling anxious about crime is commonplace in South Africa, and as one Capetonian man explained, after coming face to face with criminals during a home invasion in 2016 – during which the family was tied up and threatened with firearms – he decided to buy a gun.
“I felt pretty worthless and from that, I knew I was going to get a firearm just so I could protect myself if I was ever put in a situation like that again. I haven’t had to use my firearm, but I would rather have a firearm and not need it, than not have a firearm and need it.”
WORTH THE RISK?
Gun Free South Africa acknowledged many people felt more secure with a weapon, but are they actually safer?
“We are there to provide information and evidence that demonstrates that it’s more risky," said Kirsten
"The second is to say have you thought of the alternatives? What else can you do to improve your safety? A gun in a home poses risks for all members in the household.
"So as Gun Free South Africa, we are saying confront the evidence, is it worth the risk? And only you as an individual can answer that.”
Gun Owners of South Africa said while the proposed ban on licences for personal protection weapons was ridiculous, there were likely to be far broader effects.
“It’s going to touch every aspect of firearm ownership. It’s going to kill sports shooting. It’s going to kill the hunting industry. It’s going to kill the private security industry.
"If self-defence is no longer a reason for owning a firearm, that means there is no rationale for having armed security guards. There is also no rationale for having policemen armed because the only reason policemen carry guns is for self-defence,” said Oxley.
Last week the Democratic Alliance (DA) launched a petition against the bill, and according to the party, it already had 65,000 signatures.
Action Society and DearSA are also running public participation processes on the matter.
The public has until 4 July to comment.
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Ah yes, once again the problem is those problematic guns, not the literally retarded nogs that own them. Surely banning them will stop the lawless nigs from using them!

It also has the side effect of making white farmers more susceptible to government control. I'm sure that is completely unintentional.
 
Screamer said:
"This is kind of like the January 6th moment for South Africa. It's not a coup but it's really ugly but unlike in my own United States. It's actually going to be the move that allows South Africa to finally transform itself from a party of liberation to a functioning democracy."

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And yet, CNN ratings keep dropping and dropping....
 
murdered meat bag said:
i hope that guy who made district 9 and chappie gets to make another movie.
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He has some horror film coming out on demand soon.

It's a shame his career didn't keep going with higher-profile films. District 9, Elysium and Chappie were all excellent. Obviously, D9 is the best. I am of the understanding that part of the reason I enjoyed Chappie is that I had no idea who Die Antwood were.
 
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