The following has been lightly edited for readability. You can listen to the audio above for full context.
Karen: This all comes from that course. So it goes through all of the tarot cards pretty generally. Then it goes through planets, it goes through numerology, it goes through astrology, it goes through Kabbalah. It goes through a bunch of things like that. It's a really, really cool course, I think.
Hiram: That sounds-that sounds very thorough.
Karen: That's true. It is. It is very thorough. But if you want to go even more thorough, it's Patch Tarot Masters, but that's only available-it's a Mystic Membership and that membership includes coaching, half hour coaching sessions throughout the month.
Hiram: Ok.
Karen: That Patch Tarot Masters goes through each card like an hour-and-a-half each. And then there's a certification course that you can have if you're in the Mystic Membership. But that's a whole different level.
Hiram: Fair enough. So it would probably be wise to start off as an initiate.
Karen: Yeah, well that depends on what you're going for.
Hiram: So you've been doing this for forty years? That's incredible. So how long have you been with the Spirit Mysteries organization?
Karen: A year-and-a-half.
Hiram: A year-and-a-half? That's awesome.
Karen: Just as long as they were alive. (Presumably, she is referring to the Spirit Mysteries group and not the entire Spirit Science group, which is now a little over a decade old)
Hiram: That's awesome. And-so this whole thing is-I was reading about it and this whole thing was founded by Jordan? Jordan River, is that his name?
Karen: Mmm-hmm. Yep.
Hiram: Very cool. So it seems like you like this group. I mean, it seems like you've been very involved so I'm curious on what your view is on
this organization. How many have you been with? What makes them different if you don't mind me asking.
Karen: Well, first of all, it's online. So you can touch base with people throughout the whole world. I have friends now in Germany, in Spain, in England, in Australia, Canada. It brings the big, wide world together where no other organization I've been a part of is quite that. And we could all come together with all our different ideas and it just meshes so beautifully. And it's so filled with love. It's different from any other. It's different from organized religion for sure. Because we-we invite all thoughtforms as long as it's with a spirit of love. We don't have to agree.
Hiram: Right. That's something-I really resonate with that. I think there's so much dogmatism out there and they just try to force a certain ideology on you. But if we can all just come together and, like, exactly like you said-in a spirit of love and commitment. I think that's very important. That's awesome. I'm really glad we're having this conversation. I feel like I'm learning a lot already.
Karen: The-it was amazing during the during the presidential election. We had one of our Spirit Circles and the election came up, and people from both sides spoke and we were talking-and they were talking like you and me. No one got upset. No one got angry. We all just stated our position, and that was that. You know, it was like, "That's our truth." And, you know, nobody wants to screw up the country. We all have different ways of getting there and we acknowledged that and it was beautiful. I wish the whole United States could look like that.
Hiram: Absolutely, yeah. I feel that so strongly. Especially after the year-the last few years we've been having. I think we need that more than anything. So I have a question about-I was looking through
*Cross Talk*
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Karen: You didn't.
Hiram: Ah, ok. I have a question. I was watching some of your videos, and how I first came to know about Spirit Mysteries and everything through, you know, the Youtube channel. Which is, I think, how most people came to know about your organization. And I was talking with some of my friends here in Colorado, on the alpaca farm (inb4 he didn't say ranch) and they brought up-and someone had heard of you before. They showed me this video about-that Hebrews were from another dimension? I know this sounds crazy. I just wanted to ask to see if you could explain this for me, so I could explain to my friends and they don't think I'm doing anything crazy online. I saw this video about Hebrew coming from another dimension?
*It is at this point Karen began to shift in her chair in slight discomfort. She pauses for a moment
Karen: I don't-uh-There's a
Human History movie through Spirit Science that-
Hiram: Yes! That's the one. (I cut her off like this because I didn't want her to just have me watch it, I wanted her to
explain it)
Karen: -Yeah, I haven't watched it in such a long time that I really don't feel like I could know enough to comment on it. And, but I do know that there are a whole bunch of of race from different alien races that were here a long time ago and comingled with our dna. At first we were supposed to be just a alsave race that you couldn't-what's the word? We were sterile. But that changed and we started started having babies with some of them which is how the human race was born. So, I mean, I don't know really, specifically, how to give you specifics on it.
Hiram: Yeah, I understand. Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
*Omitting the portion about her dogs on camera
Hiram: So, if I understand correctly, so there's this initiate-there's the initiate program, which, I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about that. So it goes from tarot, through, what, like mystical learning if I remember correctly? What are the main points of this package?
Karen: It has Spiritual Money Mastery, which is how you deal with money and if you want to make your own business. How to rectify that with a spiritual life. The 7 Day Transformation is the first one you should take. It starts with the Crown Chakra, the energy that's not quite even an idea yet. And it brings you through, through homework and meditations, a denser level or energy until you get to manifestation.
Hiram: Wow
Karen: You should probably take that first when you join. There's an esoteric emotional mastery course that's about feeling, not only just our emotions, but where they come from and how to get to different levels of our emotions that our ethereal self experiences, where our brain just shuts off. It's a very, very big course that, as of now it's part of the Initiates but it may change to be going to the Mystic level only. (BUY NOW) So now is a good time to get in if you want that as well. If they give it to you they're not going to take it away.
Hiram: Ok, ok, fair enough. That's good to know.
Karen: There's a new one on magic just coming out, it's almost finished. Probably in the next 2-4 weeks.
Hiram: Ok, can you describe-explain what magick is, in a sense, to your-to Spirit Mysteries? I assume it's not cards and illusions.
Karen: No, it's more like ritualized spells. Putting the energy of your thought into manifestation. You know, you could do rituals in love. you could do rituals to clear your space, you know, to clear out negative energy. There's so much into it that it's huge. And, the guy who did it- the teacher of the course- he got his Master's in magick and ancient religions. Stuff like that. So he's just so well versed. When he talks a lot of it goes over my head so you can definitely learn a lot.
Hiram: That's incredible. So these are courses taught be people? Like these are real courses in a sense?
Karen: Yep, they're courses. They're do it on your own time. They have coursework, homework, and meditations. But the Esoteric Emotional Mastery course is given by our esoteric coach so if you decide to go up to the Mystic level, you know who that is. His name's Patrick he's the one who gives that course. So, Jordan does most of the other ones. Not all of them, but most of them.
Hiram: Oh, ok. Amazing. So Jordan has a very active role in Spirit Mysteries?
Karen: Oh, absolutely. With the reading of the Hermetica, he reads it himself, and he explains it. He's on, at least, that call. Sometimes he's on for full moons and new moon manifestation ceremonies. Sometimes he's in Spirit Circle, he pops in and out.
Hiram: Ok, that's awesome. It's really good when someone who has such a vision-like a leadership vision, wants to really get involved in the project they created instead of taking a step back. I think that's very inspiring. I was just googling Jordan right now, I saw, this is one thing on his blog, that using ayahuasca and other hallucinogenics before going to sleep. I'm curious about what your philosophy is on that. I mean, to me, that sounds like a lot. But I've never really done a lot of hallucinogenics so I'm not sure what the whole experience is there.
Karen: He does-he's gone to
Rythmia, that's a life advancement center out in Costa Rica - he's gone 10 times. He's done 40 ayahuasca journeys.
*I repeat that information back to confirm it, she confirms
Karen: Look it up, it's awesome. I went in November.
Hiram: Oh? How was it?
Karen: It was an amazing experience. Oh my god. I've been plagued with real bad migraines my whole life - for 40 years I would have migraines, three, four times a week so bad that I couldn't get out of bed. I just, it was terrible. I went to the doctor, the medicines didn't help. I tried acupuncture, I tried physical therapy, I tried psychotherapy. I tried getting my tubes tied. I tried everything everything that I could think of. Diet. Nothing worked. So finally I just, a year ago November I signed up for Rythmia. I was going to go and then the pandemic and they closed down but I got in the month they opened in November and my very first journey, I was healed of my migraines by aliens and they came down and said I was part of them, and they were helping me out. They did this psychic kind of surgery on me. I mean really, it was, really intense because for three weeks when I got back I could hardly get out of bed. But I haven't had a migraine since November 22nd.
Hiram: That's incredible. November 22nd of this year, err, last year?
Karen: Yeah.
Hiram: That is amazing. Wow. Thank you for sharing that story.
Karen: We have a course coming out called Spirit Plant Medicine Walkers, I think the name is. It explains all of this stuff, how to do hallucinogenics, how to take them safely. It goes through all of that stuff. What to do during ceremony how to, you know, all of the stuff you need to know.
Hiram: So he really does ayahuasca before he goes to sleep every night?
Karen: No. He may do a tincture that has essence of ayahuasca in it but he doesn't do ayahuasca like that.
Hiram: Ok, great. That makes a lot more sense. This sounds like a really great program. I'm really interested in looking into this. Let's see...(It's at this moment I realized our conference time had run out, but I had a few more questions I wanted to ask) I'm not sure if I have too man questions-
Karen: Let me give you the prices, because our time
is limited. We have two ways that you could purchase the membership. You could pay monthly, and that's $67 a month. Or you could pay yearly, and we give you a little over four months free. That's $528 a year. Whichever one you decide-
Hiram: I'll have to look over my finances. Ideally I'd like to come to a decision by the end of this coming week. But that sounds good. I mean, I'm just living out here on a ranch, shearing alpacas most of the time myself. And, you know, business is good. So I can't really complain. But yeah, it would be really good to-
Karen: Mitchell, we have your email address as...(at this point she's having trouble finding me in the system. I'm not writing this out. It's in the audio)
Hiram: I'm checking my email right now, which one I have. But while I have you right really quickly, because I don't want to keep your time too much longer, I recognize you have to move on very quickly.
Karen: Yes. (Somewhat frustrated)
Hiram: There's two other questions I had about this before I make my decision. Well, not make my decision, I think I've already made my decision. I mean, I don't want to
say I've made my decision. I'm just very excited, I think. But, with regards to Jordan River, I remember seeing on the news awhile ago - and I don't want to get too graphic or anything. But he mentioned on his blog, kind of an assault, that he had acted out on one or two women, and I'm curious if there's another side, I mean, I heard his statement and it seemed pretty accepting of what had happened. And I don't want to make a claim about what happened, I'm just curious if there could be light shed on this. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about.
*She was visibly uncomfortable and paused for a time
Karen: Well there was one woman that he was dating. And, a few months after they were dating, she put up allegations of rape. But that was, they were in a relationship and it was just one of those things- a 'he-said-she-said; sort of thing. And Jordan just isn't like that. I know him very, very well. I speak with him and work with him daily. And he's just one of the sweetest, most kind and loving people in the world. And if he knew she didn't want something he
definitely would not have pushed himself on her. So it's just one of those things and, I don't know if the woman had emotional problems, or what the deal was. But it was one of those things blown up by the internet. It was very sad.
Hiram: Yeah, I figured that's what it was. You know, in relationships those things can happen. What had gotten my attention was an audio recording where, it seemed, like he was saying explicitly that he had done something. I don't want to push too deep into that, but hearing it from someone else-
*Karen begins to raise her voice and sounds quite perturbed
Karen: He said that, you know, he said that she felt that way and he apologized. But that's not the way it was.
Hiram: Ok, and fair enough (Quickly trying to pivot to my last question before she hangs up on me)
Karen: And if that's what she feels I'm not going to tell her she's feeling something wrong. But that's not the way it was.
Hiram: Ok, great. If I'm going to support an organization, I'm glad I could talk to someone who has a relationship with him.
Karen: Yep, Absolutely. Absolutely.
Hiram: I guess my last question is a little lighter. You know-someone else- and we were talking about the Hebrews and stuff-and someone else had mentioned that-I don't know if this was Jordan or someone else. I'm not sure
where this originated in the organization. But I heard that Emma Watson is the Christ Sophia, or female Jesus or something? I don't know, I can google it quickly-
Karen: Oh, I know what that's about.
Hiram: Sorry if this sounds crazy.
Karen: Well, it sounded crazy to him, too. Doing ayahuasca, you get visions, right? And sometimes your brain puts things together so-someone I was on a journey with, Robin Williams came and visited her. However they do, I don't know about that. But in his case, he was having a vision about (pause) her. And, part of being in there, her role in the vision was to play the role of Christ Sophia.
At this point I concluded the conversation with her and she gave me one last brief sales pitch.
