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Deepland Bystander said:
As someone from Thailand, I feel like this information is not as straightforward.

I'd say that the word 'kathoey' has gone through different periods, wheter it is seen as just descriptive, or pejorative. Thai cuture, in general, compared to the western world, focused less on the semantics and definitive meaning of words. And word-policing or political correctness barely cross most people mind until the invasion of Twitter wokies in the last few years.

If the intention of the speaker of the word kathoey, is discriminating, they would see it as pejorative. And the common discrimination would also come from the insulter ideas that they're failed men and deviants that are not worthy on their own. But it is also very common for kathoeys (and femme gays) to refer themselves with that word. The word itself can range from effeminate gays who would never go through any medical transition, to the one who tried to 'pass', getting hormones and surgeries. A lot of our effiminate gay men also tend to use feminine 1st-person pronouns and accessory words, and call each other with feminine-leaning pronouns out of endearment - without it being their 'true identity'. (Many butch lesbians are also acquainted to referring themselves in masculine 1st person pronouns, too.) Thai pronouns are not strictly coded into the grammar as European languages. We many pronouns, the usage of them are relative and situation dependent, from the age, hierarchy, social class, formality, closeness and situation of the speakers. gender-suggestive pronouns usage is also not coded in stone, but rather relative to the situation as well.

Since pronouns are situational, and everyone will be referred to as different pronouns throughout their life, both 2nd and 3rd person - you can't make one an identity. Except the King and royal family, which they will have a special set of pronouns and vocabulary that are coined specifically refer to them. (Though most common people started to get sick of them recently, too. And we'd talk about them with peasants pronouns in private occasion)

It seem more common to me for masculine gay men to be offended by being called kathoey. As it is questioning their masculinity - than transsexuals/kathoeys/ladyboys to be offended by not being seen as 'real women'. They seem to see their level of 'woman identity' to a lesser degree than western HSTS, even. Though It's certain that they don't want to be seen as having the appearance of 'men' or having manly quality, and want to achieve feminine beauty.

Many of them come to oppose the idea of gender-ID in legal documents when it is suggested to them (This is not yet implemented in Thailand) as they see it to not be reflective of the reality of being male-bodied. The word 'second type woman', also has a suggestive tone that they're not like actual women. But rather its own form of achieved femininity similar to what you have described above. They can easily accept that their bodies are male even if they pass better than 98% of the sideshow examples posted here.

I don't think most people in Thailand see them as 'men' in social, gender role sense, but they also don't see them as women either... they're more of a third gender. They would be offended if you're just calling them 'men in dress' (in the autistic sense you suggested) - as it suggests that they're just deviants, or it calls out their insecurity of not appearing pretty/effortful enough. It should also be noted that with Thailand. Now it is practically impossible for 'MtF' to be passing in traditional sense, as in 'you couldn't tell', because there are so many of them that it becomes a common expectations, and that people have seen them often enough to clock them. Though people respect the prettier and well-groomed ones more.

Ican't speak for all of them I'm sure there might be some that would get offended being seen as a kind of men at all and want to see that they achieved womanhood. But there are many that don't.

Imo, legal affirmation of gender identity (and protestant cultural autism) in western countries are, to me, a culprit of a lot of insanity we see here. Legal fictions that pertains to identity seem to create a whole host of issues regarding mental flexibility. Adoptive parents and children in America, whose allow for birth certificate amendment and legal-lies that they're 'no different from biological children', seem to have their own host of denialism and identity issues. Many couldn't settle with the concept that that a kid can be raised and given care off by people who are not 'mother and father'. They need to be called a certain name to feel that their adopted child rearing effort is real. This mentality is no different from gender validation.

I must admit those things allows for the effective managements of population - but it is also a very stifling way to live.
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Good info. I'd actually never heard of kathoey as being used pejoratively, but it's in this book and I'm no ladyboyologist. Admittantly, this was written in 1998/9 and so maybe that was a more common colloquial usage, but no longer?

Also, on the rigid categories point, I think this used to be more true in the west as well. Consider the way Marsha P. Johnson is described both by himself and others and I've seen other cases where you observe the same sort of pattern. Generally, there seems to be a kind of percolation down of more rigid, legalistic forms of identity into HSTS populations. I think troon activism has played a big role in this regard, by (a) forcing lower class/ethnic minority HSTS's into much greater contact with mostly white, more educated AGPs and academics (often the same thing, e.g. Serano, Bettcher) and (b) By creating social awareness of possible categories that HSTS's then feel obligated to identify into.

Lawrence of Algeria said:
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Twitter | Archive
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That's right. I'm not straight. I'm super-straight


Today in grooming children:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/mrqxvf/please_help/ (x)
I honestly doubt the kid is even gay, probably just a confused dweeb. This I judgement I make on the highly scientific basis that his reddit pfp is Sakura which I judge Not Gay. The "help" he gets is worse than useless, naturally:
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"I diagnose you with fictitious condition, which you can confirm by seeing if wearing panties makes you feel funny inside." And they say there's no object test for being a True Troon. /sneed
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No downsides!
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I've never heard this:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/mypartneri...parther_says_he_wants_bottom_surgery_mtf_but/ (x)
Frankly, I think it's the most retarded idea I've ever heard. Even the commenters aren't quite sure what the party line is on the matter.
 
 
Crunchy Leaf said:
If they started lifting weights while on T, they would be muscular in a distinctively male way, and they don’t want that.
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I agree with you on that respect, but there's something to take note of here. Skeletal frame is very important for bodybuilding:
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And woman have a distinctly different frame from men (narrow shoulders, wide hips, larger pelvis, etc). They'd still look kind of uncanny, no matter how much muscle mass they packed on.
 
Father Brown said:
I've never heard this:
View attachment 2092369
https://www.reddit.com/r/mypartneri...parther_says_he_wants_bottom_surgery_mtf_but/ (x)
Frankly, I think it's the most retarded idea I've ever heard. Even the commenters aren't quite sure what the party line is on the matter.
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Basically this guy wants all the upsides of being a man in public, particularly at work. But he still wants to indulge his fantasies in private, and considers that more important than his partner's desire for children. So he expects her to a) still pretend he's a normal guy to all their friends and family, b) not have kids so they can just lick each others pussies all day as lesbians
 
poggers said:
Basically this guy wants all the upsides of being a man in public, particularly at work. But he still wants to indulge his fantasies in private, and considers that more important than his partner's desire for children. So he expects her to a) still pretend he's a normal guy to all their friends and family, b) not have kids so they can just lick each others pussies all day as lesbians
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i'd say he probably wants the woke cred and diversity benefits of being a true and honest tranny, but is too lazy to put in effort on a day to day basis, so he just gets the chop and that's it.
 
Cryonic Haunted Bullets said:
I agree with you on that respect, but there's something to take note of here. Skeletal frame is very important for bodybuilding:
View attachment 2092511
And woman have a distinctly different frame from men (narrow shoulders, wide hips, larger pelvis, etc). They'd still look kind of uncanny, no matter how much muscle mass they packed on.
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Exactly, they would get male-scale muscles (it's hard for women to build big muscle mass) but a woman's frame, and that is if anything just weirder, I mean that just looks like a the product of a village with just the one surname.
 
DumbDude42 said:
i'd say he probably wants the woke cred and diversity benefits of being a true and honest tranny, but is too lazy to put in effort on a day to day basis, so he just gets the chop and that's it.
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But dilation takes effort. And it’s not like anyone knows if you got the surgery or not.
 
more from the weird volcano fetish tranny

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EykhMkdVcAYGNUt

nothing says being a viKING woman like some shitty lazy facepaint and matching shitty lazy stubble!

more sperging about southern trannies evacuating the southern states and trekking an exodus to the promised Trannyland of the PNW

1618587707229.png


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and, last but not least:

1618588056546.png


a retweet from another AGP troon "lesbian" about their fantasy of both being the hot woman of their attraction as well as attaining the same type of woman, all while not having to put in the effort to pass nor put themselves up for rejection in any sort of potential romantic scenario with another human being. they say they're transitioning but they literally act the same way they did before taking HRT, just now they actually indulge in their fetish publicly and in person rather than privately and online.

BONUS:

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You Can(Not) Just Be A Girl
 
Tridgeridoo said:
Has any one of them ever tried to explain why, if genitals are irrelevant, there is such a huge focus on genitals in porn?
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If genitals are irrelevant why are they so keen to chop and chemically nullify their own?

Also I love how we always go to the genitals.
There are 99,999999 reasons I can think of NOT to date trans people that have nothing to do with genitals. Here are a few:

1. Many trans have personality disorders and mental illness
2. Body Issues and Sexual Dysfunction - this includes the crazy post SRS shit (Horrible self esteem and 0 self worth or acceptance)
3. More likely to engage in high risk sexual activities (No qualms about sex work) or Infidelity
4. Many are not able to sustain careers or work at all. Those that do work don't usually make enough to survive (On the dole)
5. Lack of healthy familial relationships
6. Increased rates of drug abuse and addiction (Using drugs to cope with mental illness)

I could go on and on..
Add to the fact that these are people who are not looking for a healthy relationship but for others to be a prop for their validation.
 
ForbiddenVelma960 said:
If genitals are irrelevant why are they so keen to chop and chemically nullify their own?

Also I love how we always go to the genitals.
There are 99,999999 reasons I can think of NOT to date trans people that have nothing to do with genitals. Here are a few:

1. Many trans have personality disorders and mental illness
2. Body Issues and Sexual Dysfunction - this includes the crazy post SRS shit (Horrible self esteem and 0 self worth or acceptance)
3. More likely to engage in high risk sexual activities (No qualms about sex work) or Infidelity
4. Many are not able to sustain careers or work at all. Those that do work don't usually make enough to survive (On the dole)
5. Lack of healthy familial relationships
6. Increased rates of drug abuse and addiction (Using drugs to cope with mental illness)

I could go on and on..
Add to the fact that these are people who are not looking for a healthy relationship but for others to be a prop for their validation.
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When finally the big lobotomy style reckoning comes for this cult, the mental health profession is going to have to answer to why they thought body modification and fantasy were a good way to treat real mental disorders.
 
ghost_ghost said:
When finally the big lobotomy style reckoning comes for this cult, the mental health profession is going to have to answer to why they thought body modification and fantasy were a good way to treat real mental disorders.
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I think it will be swept under the rug like lobotomies and when drs used to give women orgasms with medical vibrators to treat "hysteria"
 
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