Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[Poop A Loop]

I'm getting old enough and have enough outside commitments that take away my free time at this point that I'm happy to replay the good stuff from the past 20 years over and over because I forget the details or it's been long enough that I enjoy it all over again. I don't mind replaying the classics or series I enjoy once every 2-3 years anyway so hopefully we'll continue to at least get one or two good releases a year between the west and east so that the backlog of good stuff that someone new to gaming can play without running into pozzed shit.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Nintendo is a bit of a weird spot because they have properties like animal crossing and zelda which are almost exclusively bought by the west, but are somewhat ignored in japan.

Skyward sword's sales were something like an 80/20 split. I mean granted it was the victim of botting but most of those bots were from western resellers. Link's awakening remake had both europe and america buying it like from 5 to 1 ratio compared to Japan. The switch from portable to console and vice/versa made no difference in zelda's popularity in either situation. the series is almost entirely driven by western sales and they'll take either/or reguardles if it was a portable installment or a console where as the Japanese prefer mobile.

I meant games ON Nintendo's platform in Japan.

And I can understand why they would put some anime games on Xbox, that's probably the weeb(dweeb?) console.

 

[ZMOT]

In japan xbox is a non-entity. You wouldn't be paying for a gamepass you would be putting that money towards mobile phone games/gatcha. I was citing the Japanese numbers because Ghosts was something that did very well over there to the point where it broke company records for that region that stood since the first playstation.

the outputs counts globally tho, playstation's catalog was more than the sum of it's parts, and while studio japan might not have sold much in their home turf, it still had appeal overseas. going for blockbuster AAA was always a stupid move, because that's exactly what microsoft did. only difference is sony's exclusives still have some value compared to xbox.

 

[Marissa Moira]

the outputs counts globally tho, playstation's catalog was more than the sum of it's parts, and while studio japan might not have sold much in their home turf, it still had appeal overseas. going for blockbuster AAA was always a stupid move, because that's exactly what microsoft did. only difference is sony's exclusives still have some value compared to xbox.

The last time they had studio Japan really push something was Gravity Rush 2. They went all out for it even made a TV animation for it, and it didn't take off anywhere. That was probably the most expensive venture that they did. However a month later was when they also released Horizon Zero Dawn. Horizon wound up greatly outdoing Gravity Rush even in japan itself.

Horizon was a brand new IP, had no previous game for it, had no other media made. It also did something that nobody expected it to do and to sell on par with Nintendo first party titles. God of war a year later also wound up doing the same. First party titles made by Sony's inhouse studio never pulled those types of numbers before. Sony did have exclusive games sell like that, like Crash Bandicoot, Metal gear, but they were not games that they themselves made internally. Those types of games routinely doing so well globally on a consistent basis was what really changed things. What was now expected of Sony's studios were numbers like those, it's why Killzone is dead and many other series they made in the west as well. They're deciding to focus in on 3d Adventure games much like how Nintendo when it was establishing it's brand went all in for assorted types of 2d platformers.

Nintendo has a boatload of dead IPs because the more popular ones won out and things like Mario Kart killed series like F-Zero because they eventually converged on the same genre or similar gameplay mechanics.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Nintendo is a bit of a weird spot because they have properties like animal crossing and zelda which are almost exclusively bought by the west, but are somewhat ignored in japan.

I thought it was the other way around. Nintendo treats Metroid and Star Fox like dirty because they're popular in the west and therefor Nintendo doesn't care.

I'm getting old enough and have enough outside commitments that take away my free time at this point that I'm happy to replay the good stuff from the past 20 years over and over because I forget the details or it's been long enough that I enjoy it all over again. I don't mind replaying the classics or series I enjoy once every 2-3 years anyway so hopefully we'll continue to at least get one or two good releases a year between the west and east so that the backlog of good stuff that someone new to gaming can play without running into pozzed shit.

Same. I recently broke out the N64 emulator when Dinosaur Planet leaked, and since then I've been playing old N64 games. Either childhood favourites (some I finished, some I didn't) as well as games I missed.

The big problem I see for future generations is relevance. Playing Goldeneye today isn't the same as playing it back then. The framerate isn't good, I don't have friends wanting to play multiplayer after school, and there's no talking about getting the cheat on Facility or finding the island on Dam.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I thought it was the other way around. Nintendo treats Metroid and Star Fox like dirty because they're popular in the west and therefor Nintendo doesn't care.

That's just the fandom coming up with head cannon because they can never fathom that Nintendo might just make stupid decisions.

Nintendo is already starting to switch to a more western favored approach. On top of the theme park that's opening, they're working with an american animation company and american movie distributor for the Mario movie and this isn't even the first time they've done something like this because the Detective Pikachu movie predates it.

They also are putting out stuff like this

The switch's sales are almost entirely because of the west. Every major title they're pulling on average 70% of the sales with the japanese market always being the minority. The last time a nintendo console was almost entirely reliant on the Japanese market was the wii-u.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

Just a reminder that Sony didn't market GR2 well which is why it didn't perform as well as it deserved.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Just a reminder that Sony didn't market GR2 well which is why it didn't perform as well as it deserved.

They advertised the hell out of the animated movie which was supposed to act as abridge between the first game and the second which in itself was an advertisement.

The problems more or less came down to the actual gameplay itself. Kat handles like a brick, combat doesn't really feel right and contains the majority of useless abilities, and the side activities really needed work because they all felt like filler.

Games like Journey even did better despite being released years before. You also have recent stuff that they went all in on like Paper Beast.

 

[ZMOT]

The last time they had studio Japan really push something was Gravity Rush 2. They went all out for it even made a TV animation for it, and it didn't take off anywhere. That was probably the most expensive venture that they did. However a month later was when they also released Horizon Zero Dawn. Horizon wound up greatly outdoing Gravity Rush even in japan itself.

you're still missing the point I'm trying to make, it doesn't matter how much studio japan games sold on their own, because in combination with horizon it made people buy into the platform as a whole. that's why the term loss leader exists.
now my choice is the same indies and multiplats I get everywhere else, and like microsoft they're putting their exclusives on pc now. and when I don't buy a playstation sony can't fleece me with services and fees (where the real money is), that's why it's so important to get people into your store in the first place - if they never enter they never gonna buy anything, simple as that.

 

[Marissa Moira]

you're still missing the point I'm trying to make, it doesn't matter how much studio japan games sold on their own, because in combination with horizon it made people buy into the platform as a whole. that's why the term loss leader exists.
now my choice is the same indies and multiplats I get everywhere else, and like microsoft they're putting their exclusives on pc now. and when I don't buy a playstation sony can't fleece me with services and fees (where the real money is), that's why it's so important to get people into your store in the first place - if they never enter they never gonna buy anything, simple as that.

Except they're putting some exclusives on PC so people will buy into getting the system. They're only putting the first game up so people will buy the sequel, they said this when they started to do it in the first place. They're not going to be putting Horizon Zero Dawn 2 on there or God of War Ragnarok.

It's the same logic behind making the new expansion to the final fantasy remake PS5 only while giving out the base game for free.

Besides you can't buy physical on PC anymore, entire reason why I really stopped playing on the platform was due to even the supposed physical editions not even containing the game data on the disc and just a launcher key. The Telltale Sam and Max physical collection was I think the last one that actually had the data on the discs as well as the Elder Scrolls collection that came with both Arena and Daggerfall.

 

[BananaSplit]

That's just the fandom coming up with head cannon because they can never fathom that Nintendo might just make stupid decisions.

Nintendo is already starting to switch to a more western favored approach. On top of the theme park that's opening, they're working with an american animation company and american movie distributor for the Mario movie and this isn't even the first time they've done something like this because the Detective Pikachu movie predates it.

They also are putting out stuff like this

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nQCRYhO7JNE
The switch's sales are almost entirely because of the west. Every major title they're pulling on average 70% of the sales with the japanese market always being the minority. The last time a nintendo console was almost entirely reliant on the Japanese market was the wii-u.

This reads like an OneAngryGamer article without the "if you're arguing against my schizophrenia you're a centrist so fuck off" part at the end. I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Company is a separate entity doing its own thing. And this silly idea that a japanese console can't be japanese in nature if there are +20 countries that make up most of its sales worldwide-side with their own game softwares, despite that never prevented the PS1/PS2/PSP (for instance) to have a gigantic amount of japanese softwares dedicated for the japanese home market. Then again the Playstation brand used to be japanese before until its acquisition by the american headquarters.

The reason why people shit on/mock the Playstation brand is because it's completely unrecognizable to its older days while Nintendo still has its bing bing wahoo image, but now with the extra AA jap software that the modern american Sony has chased off. Sony also destroyed its own chance to court the nippon home market by eliminating Japan Studio, giving another clear message the japanese folks aren't welcomed on PS as anything but third-rate customers.

 

[Marissa Moira]

View attachment 1962690


This reads like an OneAngryGamer article without the "if you're arguing against my schizophrenia you're a centrist so fuck off" part at the end. I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Company is a separate entity doing its own thing. And this silly idea that a japanese console can't be japanese in nature if there are +20 countries that make up most of its sales worldwide-side with their own game softwares, despite that never prevented the PS1/PS2/PSP (for instance) to have a gigantic amount of japanese softwares dedicated for the japanese home market. Then again the Playstation brand used to be japanese before until its acquisition by the american headquarters.

The reason why people shit on/mock the Playstation brand is because it's completely unrecognizable to its older days while Nintendo still has its bing bing wahoo image, but now with the extra AA jap software that the modern american Sony has chased off. Sony also destroyed its own chance to court the nippon home market by eliminating Japan Studio, giving another clear message the japanese folks aren't welcomed on PS as anything but third-rate customers.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vinxKWyoX4A

That 5% supply thing turned out that both Nintendo and Sony view Japan as a minority. Because Nintendo only had about 25% supply for Japan with both matching up to the sales data of the global sales for both consoles by having a 1:5 ratio.

Also PlayStation isn't completely unrecognizable, the genre that built it up has always been JRPGs. Visual novels didn't appear in the west until the PS3/PSP era where they were at their lowest in the west. Both the PS1 and PS2 in north america, south america, and europe didn't do visual novels at all. None of the Japanese AA software got chased off either since the same companies are still making games for the PS5. I'd like you to name one company that hasn't because even the likes of PQube who got GalGun slapped down is still publishing Japanese games for the PS4 and PS5.

I think you just put the Japanese on a high pedestal not realizing that most of them play IOS games and most don't even think like that to begin with.

Case in point, the Japanese branch screwed up the PS3 launch so bad and designed the hardware so poorly that that's what caused the American branch to enter the picture as the primary force. The CEO at Sony dictated this. If things are as bad as people say then Jim Ryan and everyone else at the top would have been fired already. You want to talk about destroying your chances at a home market, the PS3 was the one to do it. The Japanese bought western developed sony games in greater number than the Japan studio games. That's more or less a sign that games made in japan were not appealing to their target audience to begin with. You had Horizon, Ghosts, and Spiderman all pull well over 100,000 copies. The only one that didn't really click was God of War which did 40k. The only first party Japanese game that did 100,000+ was Bloodborne.


This is basically like if Sega Nuked the hell out of Sonic team for making far too many underperforming games. and replaced them with other people. It's not a sign of some greater conspiracy or agenda at play, it's just they failed to meet expectations.

 

[BananaSplit]

That 5% supply thing turned out that both Nintendo and Sony view Japan as a minority. Because Nintendo only had about 25% supply for Japan with both matching up to the sales data of the global sales for both consoles.

Nintendo gives 1/4th of the Switch hardware stock to Japan, according to the article, meaning the game company does see its home country as an important market individually compared to the rest of the world, across all countries, which get the rest of share. That's a complete different approach compared to the PS5 with its 5% for Japan.

You're starting to sound like a white dude at a BLM rally.

Said the Sony fanboy crying.
Like wew you're really upset over the PS brand failing over there.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Nintendo gives 1/4th of the Switch hardware stock to Japan, according to the article, meaning the game company does see its home country as an important market individually compared to the rest of the world, across all countries, which get the rest of share. That's a complete different approach compared to the PS5 with its 5% for Japan.


Said the Sony fanboy crying.
Like wew you're really upset over the PS brand failing over there.

1/4th of the stock is 25%

It's a quarter, 70% goes to America the other 5% is global. There's 5 times as many switches so it's a 1:5 ratio so Sony would only distribute 5% compared to Nintendo's 25% in that region. Americans outpurchase the Japanese with nintendo products by a large margin. It's specifically the american market as well and it's usually around 70-80% especially for titles like Zelda and Animal Crossing.

They both treat Japan as a minority. It used to be a 50/50 split with Japan and Nintendo but that dropped as well. America, China, and South korea are the inroads for growing console markets.

 

[ZMOT]

Except they're putting some exclusives on PC so people will buy into getting the system. They're only putting the first game up so people will buy the sequel, they said this when they started to do it in the first place. They're not going to be putting Horizon Zero Dawn 2 on there or God of War Ragnarok.

It's the same logic behind making the new expansion to the final fantasy remake PS5 only while giving out the base game for free.

Besides you can't buy physical on PC anymore, entire reason why I really stopped playing on the platform was due to even the supposed physical editions not even containing the game data on the disc and just a launcher key. The Telltale Sam and Max physical collection was I think the last one that actually had the data on the discs as well as the Elder Scrolls collection that came with both Arena and Daggerfall.

till the sequels show up on pc too to sell the platform or at least double dip, remember there was a time you'd get laughed out of the room for suggesting sony releasing exclusives outside their consoles. exclusives you don't even really need since nothing they do is anything new, and pc users aren't short of alternatives (even extending to xbox since they get the same multiplats).
if that's really their strategy it's quite a stupid one, otoh that would mean it makes sense for sony, and it's quite ironic because the games studio japan did were better exclusives (with less alternatives) then yet another moving while talking over the shoulder movie game.

as for physical, that trend will continue on consoles. microsoft is already selling a discless version. it's more money for everyone involved, more convenient for the consumer, and most people don't care about "owning" games they play, finish and then forget. and when your consoles/accessories inevitable go out of commission, all those fancy physical editions become paper weights over night. we both may not like it, but it is what it is. you buying rare physical limited editions is if I'd buy laser discs, it won't change the trend.

 

[Marissa Moira]

till the sequels show up on pc too to sell the platform or at least double dip, remember there was a time you'd get laughed out of the room for suggesting sony releasing exclusives outside their consoles. exclusives you don't even really need since nothing they do is anything new, and pc users aren't short of alternatives (even extending to xbox since they get the same multiplats).
if that's really their strategy it's quite a stupid one, otoh that would mean it makes sense for sony, and it's quite ironic because the games studio japan did were better exclusives (with less alternatives) then yet another moving while talking over the shoulder movie game.

The whole imitative is to basically grow IPs for the company as a whole, so not just playstation but the other media branches. It's been done before in similar circumstances by making the entry point easily accessible and then having everything adhere to a routine path.

it's the same logic as streaming apps offering free time in the hopes of getting repeat customers. Some will cross promote with Amazon prime and you get to watch some shows that were not normally available on there in the hopes of you subscribing to the app the show originated from.

So far it hasn't hurt anything but it hasn't accrued the significant data desired either, but Horizon looks like it's coming out in 2022 and may not make 2021 so they're playing a long game it seems.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Jesus this thread needs to be renamed "console spering general". I came to reee at sjws and antisjws, but I'm getting business lessons here.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Jesus this thread needs to be renamed "console spering general". I came to reee at sjws and antisjws, but I'm getting business lessons here.

Seriously. Can we get a "Debate Marissa Moira about Sony's business decisions" thread?

 

[Marissa Moira]

Jesus this thread needs to be renamed "console spering general". I came to reee at sjws and antisjws, but I'm getting business lessons here.

Where have you been, that's where the lines in the sand have been drawn. It's no longer about individual woketards nor libtards, not even ebin nazis wrecking the leftoids with facts and logics. It has become about the gestalt, the collective, the corporate behemoths who promise each group a different set of morals to each of the faithful when they endrench the world after their long and bloody victory.

Basically the culture wars was a console war all along.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

LOL. Can't tell if this is a troll or a sincere belief.

link