🐱 Don’t Both-Sides the War on Truth

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CatParty

Glad to see political obituaries for Trump appearing. But don’t let them both-sides it. Case in point is George Packer’s “The Legacy of Donald Trump” in the Atlantic (online version titled, “A Political Obituary for Donald Trump“).


Packer is partly right in his comparison of Trump’s lies to those of previous presidents:

Trump’s lies were different. They belonged to the postmodern era. They were assaults against not this or that fact, but reality itself. They spread beyond public policy to invade private life, clouding the mental faculties of everyone who had to breathe his air, dissolving the very distinction between truth and falsehood. Their purpose was never the conventional desire to conceal something shameful from the public.

He’s right that the target is truth itself, but wrong to attribute this to postmodernism. Trump is well-grounded in modernist authoritarianism, albeit with contemporary cultural flourishes. This ground was well covered by Michiko Kakutani, Jason Stanley, and Adam Gopnik, who wrote the week before Trump’s inauguration:

there is nothing in the least “postmodern” about Trump. The machinery of demagogic authoritarianism may shift from decade to decade and century to century, taking us from the scroll to the newsreel to the tweet, but its content is always the same. Nero gave dictates; Idi Amin was mercurial. Instruments of communication may change; demagogic instincts don’t.


This distinction matters, between Trump the modern authoritarian and Trump the victim of a world gone mad. You can see why later in Packer’s piece, when he both-sides it:

Monopoly of public policy by experts—trade negotiators, government bureaucrats, think tankers, professors, journalists—helped create the populist backlash that empowered Trump. His reign of lies drove educated Americans to place their faith, and even their identity, all the more certainly in experts, who didn’t always deserve it (the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, election pollsters). The war between populists and experts relieved both sides of the democratic imperative to persuade. The standoff turned them into caricatures.

Disagree. Public health scientists and political pollsters are sometimes wrong, and even corrupt, including during the Trump era, but their failures are not an assault on truth itself (I don’t know what about the CDC he’s referring to, but except for some behavior by Trump appointees the same applies). We in the rational knowledge business have not been relieved of our democratic imperatives by the machinations of authoritarians. No matter how we are seen by Trump’s followers, we are not caricatures. The rise of authoritarianism and its populist armies can’t be laid at the feet of the reign of experts. In one sense, of course, anti-vaxxers only exist because there are vaccines. But that’s not a both-sides story. Everyone alive today is alive because of the reign of experts, more of less.


This reminds me of Jonah Goldberg’s ridiculous (but very common, among conservatives) attempt to blame anti-racists for racism: “The grave danger, already materializing, is that whites and Christians respond to this bigotry [i.e., being called racist, homophobic, and Islamophobic] and create their own tribal identity politics.” If Packer objects to the comparison, that’s on him.

That said, the know-nothing movement that Trump now leads obviously creates direct challenges that the forces of truth must rise to meet. The imperative for “engagement” among social scientists — the need to communicate our research and its implications, which I’ve discussed before — is partly driven by this reality. In the social sciences we have an additional burden because our scholarship is directly relevant to politics, so compared with the other sciences we are subject to heightened scrutiny and suspicion — our accomplishments are less the invisible infrastructure of daily survival and more the contested terrain of social and cultural conflict.

And, judging by our falling social science enrollments (except economics), we’re not winning.

So we have a lot of work to do, but we’re not responsible for the war on truth.
 
And, judging by our falling social science enrollments (except economics), we’re not winning.
Sorry you can’t scam another generation of kids. Get fucked lol.
This reminds me of Jonah Goldberg’s ridiculous (but very common, among conservatives) attempt to blame anti-racists for racism: “The grave danger, already materializing, is that whites and Christians respond to this bigotry [i.e., being called racist, homophobic, and Islamophobic] and create their own tribal identity politics.” If Packer objects to the comparison, that’s on him.
This entire website is proof Goldberg is correct.
 
They spread beyond public policy to invade private life, clouding the mental faculties of everyone who had to breathe his air, dissolving the very distinction between truth and falsehood. Their purpose was never the conventional desire to conceal something shameful from the public.

So Trump has some sort of Aura of Despair of 15 feet or something? He's got Demi-Lich powers?
 
Sorry you can’t scam another generation of kids. Get fucked lol.

This entire website is proof Goldberg is correct.
The problem with being in a social media bubble/feedback loop is that they probably genuinely don't understand why calling people evil over and over again despite not actually doing anything wrong (except be born the "wrong" color) is not going to result in what they want.

They genuinely have been taught that they can just scream "you're wrong/evil" over and over again until they win.

Keep in mind that they don't want to actually convert people. When Joe Rogan endorced Bernie Sanders, AOC withdrew her endorcement saying that "she couldn't side with an alt-right Joe Rogan." Because it's not about converting people; it's about winning and crushing them.

 
Trump’s lies were different. They belonged to the postmodern era. They were assaults against not this or that fact, but reality itself. They spread beyond public policy to invade private life, clouding the mental faculties of everyone who had to breathe his air, dissolving the very distinction between truth and falsehood. Their purpose was never the conventional desire to conceal something shameful from the public.
Well this is a work of fucking art right here.:story:

The obvious whopper is about as close as anyone will get to seeing someone with TDS admit that Trump didn't lie, he just voiced an opposing political position.

Though my favorite part of this is the italicized section that comes after the whopper. Because it is an accurate description of how the media used everything in their power to ensure they ran a 24/7/365 hitjob on almost every outlet...which nobody was forced to watchwhich Trump didn't force them to watch, but they then attribute their resultant inability to escape Trump via the media to...Trump.

So close and yet so far.

Edit: Clarity
 
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[Trump's lie] were assaults against not this or that fact, but reality itself.
He’s right that the target is truth itself, but wrong to attribute this to postmodernism. Trump is well-grounded in modernist authoritarianism
I dunno, the assumption that there is a reality out there waiting to be "assaulted" by Trump sounds like an Enlightenment mindset, pretty modernist to me. If the author is a good postmodernist as he doubtless see himself as, he'd claim that all people in the world co-create our realities with Trump (through discourse, or whatever), and the reason he hates Trump is because he imagines the realities we co-create without Trump would be somehow "better" (don't ask what "better" means) than the realities we co-create with Trump.

And, judging by our falling social science enrollments (except economics), we’re not winning.
Good. Let's defund them completely.
 
I dunno, the assumption that there is a reality out there waiting to be "assaulted" by Trump sounds like an Enlightenment mindset, pretty modernist to me. If the author is a good postmodernist as he doubtless see himself as, he'd claim that all people in the world co-create our realities with Trump (through discourse, or whatever), and the reason he hates Trump is because he imagines the realities we co-create without Trump would be somehow "better" (don't ask what "better" means) than the realities we co-create with Trump.


Good. Let's defund them completely.
Is stats a social science?
 
"Why does no one trust us we're not partisan hacks we only deal in truth"
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Have they forgotten George W Bush so quickly? I remember when the US invaded Iraq and dragged the UK into it based on a claim that Saddam Hussein had WMDs that could totally blow us up in 45 minutes. If that's not fake news or a lie, I don't know what is, and that whole region and the veterans of that war are picking up the pieces of it even now, and it helped lay the ground for ISIS and people trafficking and a refugee crisis. Now some liberals are even trying to rehabilitate Bush's image and say he was at least more statesmanlike and Trump is uniquely bad.
Give it four years of business as usual with Biden, probably involving more war and bungs to the biggest corporations like under Clinton and Obama but at least there's a Democrat doing it, then there'll be an even more populist (though I haven't really heard a good definition of "populist" that couldn't just be "democratic" or "appealing to a wide voter base") Republican candidate and these same people will be saying Trump wasn't that bad compared to this guy.
 
and dragged the UK into it
The UK were more eager than the yanks, some of the "intelligence sources" their experts at Mi6 accepted from their own expert agents were exquisitely dumb.

One source, supposedly inside Saddams chemical weapons facilities. Had reported seeing linked hollow glass balls filled with green nerve agent being loaded into rockets.
 
The media and the left lost any right to complain about a "war on truth" when they decided that truths can be owned (e.g. "her truth", "our truth").
If the truth is a prize that can be owned, then don't get mad when your opponent fights back for it.
 
"Don't take an objective, unbiased view that takes into account the evidence presented by all parties in an argument, our narrative is objectively correct because we said so, and the other 50% of the people are objectively wrong" - literally both of them
 
The media and the left lost any right to complain about a "war on truth" when they decided that truths can be owned (e.g. "her truth", "our truth").
If the truth is a prize that can be owned, then don't get mad when your opponent fights back for it.
It's an utter betrayal of dialectical materialism too, which is supposed to be the foundation of left-wing (at least, Marxist) thought. They'll talk about subjective religious thinking and anti-science rhetoric and then talk about men with an "authentic self" that can apparently be a female soul, or how something is "empowering" without actually explaining what power it confers on anyone.
 
Trump’s lies were different. They belonged to the postmodern era. They were assaults against not this or that fact, but reality itself. They spread beyond public policy to invade private life, clouding the mental faculties of everyone who had to breathe his air, dissolving the very distinction between truth and falsehood. Their purpose was never the conventional desire to conceal something shameful from the public.
If Trump is this powerful why are we voting him out of office? He sounds like a literal deity

Everyone alive today is alive because of the reign of experts, more of less.
This is just an odd statement overall. They talk about how much authoritarianism is bad, but then they push for the idea that an upper echelon of society should have uncontested power in public discourse and direction. I don't get why these guys are so in favor of democracy, they clearly don't believe the public knows whats good for itself.
 
Public health scientists and political pollsters are sometimes wrong, and even corrupt, including during the Trump era, but their failures are not an assault on truth itself (I don’t know what about the CDC he’s referring to, but except for some behavior by Trump appointees the same applies).

>not knowing how the CDC works
>not a single mention of China asking CDC to lay low on hiding COVID-19 cases that were increasing in their country

038935EB-75C1-4972-A135-61ACD3EC10FF.png
 
The media and the left lost any right to complain about a "war on truth" when they decided that truths can be owned (e.g. "her truth", "our truth").
If the truth is a prize that can be owned, then don't get mad when your opponent fights back for it.
It says too much about you that you immediately diagnose those who you prescribe to be your enemy to be wrong and against "truth".
 
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