Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

[Marissa Moira]

Also for his sperging out on visual novels, it's worth to mention VNs can evolve from just being mere glorified powerpoints, with actual gameplay at parts. Even then, that doesnt mean the more simply-made or kinetic VNs shouldn't be allowed to exist because of one's distorted view that every single game must be held to the same production values regardless of circumstances and personal dev choices.

The reason why people like niche games is because they are different and cater to a specific taste. They don't often get lot of coverage or attention from the normalfag crowd but that's pretty much the point. Being upset by them is similar to a vegan crying over the presence of butcher shops, but that's probably a bad analogue from me.

The problem is that we're arguing with a dishonest guy who will try any flawed argument/opinions and misinformation possible to protect Big Daddy Sony America from the current criticism on the treatment against japanese devs and their games in the past two years and of the possible consequences in the future. The same guy who was just denying the status of niche in vita games used as examples to illustrate the concept of "niche" just a few comments ago, that's enough proof how desperate (or how dedicated in shitposting) he is. Culture Wars General thread could be as well renamed as "Marissa Moira's mental gymnastics" considering the amount of his replies in the past pages and if this keeps up.

Well I mean for one thing I've actually played all these games that I criticize, by making claims about full blown dishonesty is very extreme. My collection of japanese games is quite extensive so I'm very very very well versed in them. The censorship policy primarily has effected devs who put out non-games for years or just kept shoveling trash. When you're having less than a year's development for a title, you're not making a game you're just doing something to try and make quick buck, that's why we have the term shovelware. Outside of comics which have deadlines, most written serialized books take more than a year to write between installments.

You've been grouping Visual Novels with games that are not visual novels. Visual novels are either software that lack any type of gameplay mechanics(i.e. you're simply touching an object on the screen or selecting text boxes, they'll call these Light Gameplay Elements) or lack mechanics entirely and just press a button to scroll through text. Utawererumono has a full on SRPG inside of it so that's going to put it on the SRPG category because you're going to have stuff like grinding a character to max level. The text can go on for hours between missions but you can skip it. it also has a very long post game for all 4 of the releases with one requiring you to collect all RNG items. Just because something is story heavy and has a stagnant screen to display text, isn't going to make it a VN especially if all the objectives to complete in the game rely on different gameplay systems. The Aquaplus games released in the states have all been SRPGs, Action games, or Fighters.

If something lacks gameplay it's going to be the reason reasons why people call out Western devs for making fucking movies, Visual Novels fall into the same ditch of sacrificing gameplay to suit smoothbrains who just want to look at pretty images. It doesn't matter if the game came from a large dev, a small dev, western dev or an asian one or even from the Baltics, if the game lacks actual gameplay and substance people are going to call it out on it's bullshit because the end result product matters the most.

And you're taking the supposed treatment of Japanese devs way too personally. They don't need to be coddled, trust me on this one.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It's going to be hard to argue that you're not behaving the way he's accusing you of when you're behaving in the way he's accusing you of.

The difference between visual novels (and sound novels for that matter) and western devs "making fucking movies" as you put it, is that visual novels aren't trying to trick you by claiming they're something they're not, and VN fans and devs don't try to browbeat you for playing games that aren't VNs. You know this already.

Putting arbitrary dev times onto a game doesn't work either. Comparing shovelware to VNs is dumb. This isn't Digital Homicide putting out a game every couple of days, or some 14 year old putting a Unity tutorial game on Steam. You know this already.

Even if we agree and say that VNs are lazy shovelware. What about the non-VN games that are the target of censorship? You'll have a hard time convincing people that Resident Evil, Yakuza, Omega Labyrinth, Dead or Alive, and Senran Kagura are all VNs or shovelware. You know this already.

 

[BananaSplit]

Well I mean for one thing I've actually played all these games that I criticize, by making claims about full blown dishonesty is very extreme. My collection of japanese games is quite extensive so I'm very very very well versed in them. The censorship policy primarily has effected devs who put out non-games for years or just kept shoveling trash. When you're having less than a year's development for a title, you're not making a game you're just doing something to try and make quick buck, that's why we have the term shovelware. Outside of comics which have deadlines, most written serialized books take more than a year to write between installments.

You've been grouping Visual Novels with games that are not visual novels. Visual novels are either software that lack any type of gameplay mechanics(i.e. you're simply touching an object on the screen or selecting text boxes, they'll call these Light Gameplay Elements) or lack mechanics entirely and just press a button to scroll through text. Utawererumono has a full on SRPG inside of it so that's going to put it on the SRPG category because you're going to have stuff like grinding a character to max level. The text can go on for hours between missions but you can skip it. it also has a very long post game for all 4 of the releases with one requiring you to collect all RNG items. Just because something is story heavy and has a stagnant screen to display text, isn't going to make it a VN especially if all the objectives to complete in the game rely on different gameplay systems. The Aquaplus games released in the states have all been SRPGs, Action games, or Fighters.

The japs generally label their visual novels in their home country as ADV, and even then, vndb label all the titles in my previous post as VNs, So either side of the argument disagree with your mental gymnastics. For a guy who is pretending to be 'very very very well versed' in japanese videogames, you are sure doing a very poor job at it with all the bullshits you keep spouting in constant basis.

I'm certainly repeating, but fuck off with your "censorship is okay as long as it affects things i don't like" shit.

And you're taking the supposed treatment of Japanese devs way too personally. They don't need to be coddled, trust me on this one.

Because I do deeply respect the people in general working on creative fields (the same technically applies to artisanal works but that's another topic). I hate oversensible and authoritarian fags dictacting (even succeeding sometimes at bullying) artists and devs what isn't allowed to do somehow for the sake of political-correctness.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The japs generally label their visual novels in their home country as ADV, and even then, vndb label all the titles in my previous post as VNs, So either side of the argument disagree with your mental gymnastics. For a guy who is pretending to be 'very very very well versed' in japanese videogames, you are sure doing a very poor job at it with all the bullshits you keep spouting in constant basis.

Games are defined by their mechanics, VNs are defined by their lack of mechanics.

This isn't mental gymnastics, the actual differences are very apparent.

Like the latest Sakura Wars isn't an RPG it's an action game because the main battle system is modeled after Dynasty Warriors. That's the core of the game that everything is centered around.

Myst and Riven while nothing but a series of 2D images have loads of environmental logic puzzles that you solve throughout it. That's why they're considered puzzle adventure games.

I hate oversensible and authoritarian fags dictacting (even succeeding sometimes at bullying) artists and devs what isn't allowed to do somehow for the sake of political-correctness.

careful lest one becomes a monster while fighting monsters.

Even if we agree and say that VNs are lazy shovelware. What about the non-VN games that are the target of censorship? You'll have a hard time convincing people that Resident Evil, Yakuza, Omega Labyrinth, Dead or Alive, and Senran Kagura are all VNs or shovelware. You know this already.

Yakuza the only one I'm aware of was the remake where they removed the tranny questline entirely because the devs themselves said it was their wish to do so. Dead or Alive's spinoff was targeted but that was a social media campaign that drove that because you can still freely buy the english version in other regions. Omega Labyrinth and Senran kagura were the ones that were affected by the policy.

But personally after playing these games myself, none of them panned out particularly well. Like for a censorship policy to work or for even to be point to rally behind in opposition you need to have something of substance like a Mortal Kombat or a Grand Theft Auto. Like with Operation Rainfall and Xenoblade, that only got traction because Xenoblade was a good game. if Xenoblade was something on par with some of the worse PS1 RPGs it probaably wouldn't have been bothered to be translated (and there were quite a few wii games left in the dust as far as english versions went).

You see I don't think the quality argument can be separated with how the policy has worked thus far. Like we know what's panned out since then and nothing has really changed all that much from what types of games are still getting released. In the past these policies would normally target the high quality and popular games so you would think Final Fantasy, legend of heroes, Ys, and others would be brought down on it but that hasn't happened. That's also why I'm interested in it because I don't think it's behaving as initially stated. There needs to be nuance applied to this because it's abnormal from regular censorship policies in terms of what's getting through.

 

[Kurtis Trent]

sorry to interrupt you, boys, but can we all agree trends like this are genuinely disturbing?
I wanna know who started normalizing XYZ genders

 

[Marissa Moira]

sorry to interrupt you, boys, but can we all agree trends like this are genuinely disturbing?
I wanna know who started normalizing XYZ genders

View attachment 1723777

A stands for Ass because that's the only reason someone rolls a girl character

B stands for Balls because the purpose of male characters are to teabag others.

If you want we can start calling them Gender A and Gender 1.

or all genders can be called Mongooses.

 

[Kurtis Trent]

A stands for Ass because that's the only reason someone rolls a girl character

B stands for Balls because the purpose of male characters are to teabag others.

If you want we can start calling them Gender A and Gender 1.

or all genders can be called Mongooses.

They didn't even realize how they shot themselves in the foot by admitting there are only two genders

 

[Marissa Moira]

They didn't even realize how they shot themselves in the foot by admitting there are only two genders

Well they call them Body Types, which I have to applaud because that's about as neutral and to the center as they possibly come as a description.

Finally millions of trannies will be able to get past the character choice screen in Pokemon if Nintendo copies this.

 

[AMHOLIO]

RPS on suicide watch.

View attachment 1721565

View attachment 1721566

It's quotes like this that show how insular the game journalism + indie hanger ons is so insular. Normal people know to only say shit like this to close social circles even if you believe it. At a regular job, you can get fired for this level of familiarity, disregarding towards people's beliefs and lifestyles, alluding to violence, and for being a massive manchild in general. They are so insulated in their padded cell they can't even realize what privilege is if it bit them in the ass.

Had this been the late 90s/ early 2000s where edgy culture was still a thing, I'd have more respect because I know you're being a dilhole to be a dilhole and don't believe what you say. You'd be a tryhard, but you could owe up to it. This, this not so much at all.

sorry to interrupt you, boys, but can we all agree trends like this are genuinely disturbing?
I wanna know who started normalizing XYZ genders

View attachment 1723777

Its a good lazy compromise without having to rig a separate genderless body imo. Of course they will complain, but it's inevitable and you can lazily deflect criticism in a game where gender doesn't matter in the fucking first place.

Well they call them Body Types, which I have to applaud because that's about as neutral and to the center as they possibly come as a description.

Finally millions of trannies will be able to get past the character choice screen in Pokemon if Nintendo copies this.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo keeps their Pokemon people on a short fucking leash thanks to past history with controversy (from satanism to seizures to proposed blackface to peta). We'll see if the next professor says "What do you look like?" before presenting boy/girl which would be an Americanism rather than an actual push by the devs, akin to Animal Crossing.

Anyway if you kill yourself over a children's game screen and can't fucking "pretend" to be an actual gender for a fuckin ROLEPLAY Game then you my good fellow are a pussy and need therapy.

 

[Federal Agent]

The yuji himukai situation is infuriating. Fucking americans.

 

[BananaSplit]

careful lest one becomes a monster while fighting monsters.

"noooo you can't be a big meany to the "people" who are purposely fucking with your bread and butter because they feel offended"

sorry to interrupt you, boys, but can we all agree trends like this are genuinely disturbing?
I wanna know who started normalizing XYZ genders

View attachment 1723777

The remake honestly looks like a hot mess, you know the sort-of typical Netflix adaptation of something. See pictures below.

The yuji himukai situation is infuriating. Fucking americans.

It's probably bound to happen more and more often now that trump seems to be out of the picture as the main topic for those "people" to complain about.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I hate oversensible and authoritarian fags dictacting (even succeeding sometimes at bullying) artists and devs what isn't allowed to do somehow for the sake of political-correctness.

Off topic, that tights thing was pathetic. Imagine being so insecure that a tights ad triggers you.

I found it funny that the next article on Unseen Japan was "Where did the Japanese fashion industry go?". It's like the infamous Time summer holiday covers.

If you're going to hire an artist to draw ads for your tights, why not hire someone who draws them professionally? You might even get some sales from the artists fetish fan base. Sounds like a win-win to me.

In the past these policies would normally target the high quality and popular games so you would think Final Fantasy, legend of heroes, Ys, and others would be brought down on it but that hasn't happened.

I thought Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Final Fantasy 15 were censored. I don't even like Final Fantasy, but I remember complaints that Remake cut parts from the crossdressing scene, and made the women (mainly tifa) less sexy. 15 had a woman in overalls showing cleavage that was going to play a larger roll in the story, but was cut after backlash to the trailer, and that's just hearing it third hand from people who play it.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I thought Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Final Fantasy 15 were censored. I don't even like Final Fantasy, but I remember complaints that Remake cut parts from the crossdressing scene, and made the women (mainly tifa) less sexy. 15 had a woman in overalls showing cleavage that was going to play a larger roll in the story, but was cut after backlash to the trailer, and that's just hearing it third hand from people who play it.

Remake really didn't cut parts from the Crossdressing scene, in fact it did the opposite and embellished it since you have to convince a gay dude with a musical dance number that plays like a rhythm game. As far as NPCs went they really didn't tone those down either, there's one lone fat girl NPC in hotpants but she's the only one in the game.

15 had a troubled development if anything was cut or removed it was entirely square's doing due to project mismanagement.

The remake honestly looks like a hot mess, you know the sort-of typical Netflix adaptation of something. See pictures below.

Then it's honestly mirroring Demon's Souls original production to a T. The Souls series was originally proposed to be something to copy Elder Scrolls but production kept fucking up adding, cutting, and breaking things. The stockpile Thomas glitch still exists after all these years, while the remake is the most functionally sound compared to the original. Mind you the original game can be beaten 100% in about 2 hours or so if you abuse all the glitches. You're also able to trade and dupe untradable items like boss souls if you get summoned as a phantom and drop shit on the ground while your menu is still open and then leave the game because it doesn't save if the menu is still open while you're summoned. OG DES was far from being perfectly tuned or refined.

The yuji himukai situation is infuriating. Fucking americans.

Well considering there's a worldwide ban on loli, I expect him and the rest of the lolifags to be transported to one of FEMA's global camp locations.

 

[Miller]

The remake honestly looks like a hot mess, you know the sort-of typical Netflix adaptation of something. See pictures below.

The girl in the 5th pic seems to have participated in another type of game with a lot of men.

 

[c-no]

"noooo you can't be a big meany to the "people" who are purposely fucking with your bread and butter because they feel offended"


The remake honestly looks like a hot mess, you know the sort-of typical Netflix adaptation of something. See pictures below.


It's probably bound to happen more and more often now that trump seems to be out of the picture as the main topic for those "people" to complain about.

Far as faces go with the remake, I did thought they could look out of place in being from another game. Don't like how Patches looks like he'd want to eat someone's ass, or how Stockpile Thomas no longer has a widows peak.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Far as faces go with the remake, I did thought they could look out of place in being from another game. Don't like how Patches looks like he'd want to eat someone's ass, or how Stockpile Thomas no longer has a widows peak.

In the original game most of the NPCs were made out of the player character creator in order to save time. IIRC Maiden in black and the blacksmith model are the only unique ones outside the bosses and enemies.

 

[SiccDicc]

In the original game most of the NPCs were made out of the player character creator in order to save time. IIRC Maiden in black and the blacksmith model are the only unique ones outside the bosses and enemies.

So they went out of their way to make attractive characters in the original character creator which is pretty difficult to do so with... then decided to make models on their own that are uglier than the original character creator allowed?

 

[Marissa Moira]

So they went out of their way to make attractive characters in the original character creator which is pretty difficult to do so with... then decided to make models on their own that are uglier than the original character creator allowed?

I'm not actually all that sure if the remake's models are made from that version's character creator or not.

There's no raw model data out, but the combat for the game was directly imported from the original it seems, so you would need to see the rigs and models to determine if the NPCs are from the modern character creator or based on original models.

 

[Ruin]

So as much as I want to engage in a "dur sjws are ruining our gamez!" conspiracy I'm really not seeing one here. I've seen the comparison screenshots for the DS remake on Sanaku and other places and they just look more realistic and less exaggerated anime than the originals. This isn't like Mass effect Andromeda or Abby where they obviously worked hard to make the female characters as repulsive as possible.

 

[Marissa Moira]

So as much as I want to engage in a "dur sjws are ruining our gamez!" conspiracy I'm really not seeing one here. I've seen the comparison screenshots for the DS remake on Sanaku and other places and they just look more realistic and less exaggerated anime than the originals. This isn't like Mass effect Andromeda or Abby where they obviously worked hard to make the female characters as repulsive as possible.

Yeah the remake is squarely in the good catagory.

t's kept everything beat for beat exactly like the original, this isn't like the resident evil 3 remake where parts of the original were squashed or condensed. The combat is better than the original it really does play amazingly well. The world was filled out more and the areas they mostly did this in were lacking or nearly empty in the original. Flamelurker's arena was one of them where in the original it was just an empty space with some giant bones that were not utilized well, this was very apparently because you could get the boss stuck behind the giant bone ribcage and he would be stuck and unable to hit you, while you could hit him.

As for whatever lore that may or may not have been changed, everything relating to Soulsborne lore plays out like this:

It's kind of like buying the next Zelda game for the Timeline.