Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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I’m currently at the dr sump crossover mini arc in og dragon ball. Is Dr slump worth watching/reading
 
Enjoying watching people play Fighter Z currently on you tube
Akira better make Broly/Cheelai, canon or i'll autistically riot. oh, and the Trap remixes are still lit.
 
Notgoodwithusernames said:
I’m currently at the dr sump crossover mini arc in og dragon ball. Is Dr slump worth watching/reading
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Yeah the manga is okay, some jokes fly over my westernized head i guess but some volumes makes me burst out laughing (as when they make fun of sexual assault, hilarious!). The TV-series was fantranslated for a while but seems to be gone now, don't bother with the movies (who have a American release) though, pure shit.
 
Still playing FighterZ. Just downloaded GT Kid Goku. Fuck what everyone thinks, I liked GT. Mainly the OST, but still!
 
capitalBBustard said:
If he was contained to his own movie, fine, he serves a novel role as the guy Goku doesn't beat at the end. He's still mostly just a Z movie villain in a another Z movie that shows up and then wastes time before he fights Goku in the end. His design sucks for a lead DB villain, it's the type Toriyama's editor would've told him to throw out and make a new one. The design was given a pass by the TFS mentality of DB = weird = great, so him looking like shit means he's actually great Toriyama subversion. It would be fine for a secondary character but, it is horrible as the main opponent. His character is really just dictated by the fact that if he was fully evil villain, then he would kill everyone after he beats Goku, so he has to instead be mostly an asshole. His character is also all over the place in the movie, he's sort of an obstinate lazy dick if he can't eat or fight or mess with people, but he also breakdances while everyone claps like marionettes. It just feels like a bunch of filler. Overall, tepid, but atleast he's more interesting than most Z movies purely on a dynamic level, everything else is just as bad a usual.

But then you get to him in the sequel and Super and he is just the dirt fucking worst albatross dragging down everything with him. Freeza is now retconned to have always been his bitch blowing up planets for him, nuking his entire character, as it hinged on him believing he was the strongest in the universe, causing him to go absolutely mental when Goku trounces him to the point where he tries to get at him on Earth only to get killed by Trunks. Beerus interrupts the already half baked rerun of Goku v Frieza to tell him he sucks shit and he'll get involved if he doesn't play nice, doing a great job at keeping the stakes high in the eyes of the viewer. Great tension.

In DB, what's usually done is that the new threat in the new arc is in part established by eventually fighting the (several) previous arcs rival(s) turned good guy(s) that joins the main cast. Escalates stakes, shows the relative strength of the new rival/villain, make the threat credible and dangerous, and finally a sort of passing of the torch between former and the new opposition. Then there's Beerus. Beerus is someone who is not allowed to lose no or even get injured or look like he's facing a challenge matter what, for some damn reason, maybe sparing him for a Goku rematch that will never happen. This creates several giant problems for storytelling, all of which get displayed Super, he actively dissipates tension just by being in the vicinity of the threat, because he would steamroll them (Res F), the threat can't be all that great otherwise he'd get involved (Black, nuBroly), once he does get involved, the arc is immediately going to be concluded via bullshit because he can't lose or look weak(Zamasu), and to bypass this you have to create arbitrary stipulations disqualifying him from doing anything (U6v7, ToP) aka contrived bullshit that limits the type of stories you can tell. He is a giant pain in the ass you have to actively write around because he fucks everything up due to his "I win lol" trait, which also negates him from getting any real development, because if he does something substantial the story is over.

Character wise he's permanently stuck in place doing the same thing without forward movement except filler level platitudes and comedy, which is a one note routine with no novelty at that point, while permahogging the shiny new cast member spot, so nobody else is able to join. It's why outside of the handful of references to events in Super, it feels like jack shit happened between Res F and Broly, nobody from Super is written to be able to stick around because Beerus still hasn't been written to pass the torch. It's also why Broly isn't able to join the main cast after his movie, and instead has to fuck off to a cave in space with his hot green midget, to maybe cameo for a bit when the next movie/series arrives.

There is a lot of "x is everything wrong with DB" takes out there, but almost all of them are in response to fandom surrounding stuff from DB, eg fixation on powerlevels or Broly being popular. Those really had no detrimental effect on the main product itself, just presence in tertiary stuff like games and merch. Beerus is the first time a character in DB has made everything they were involved in worse. That's a level of sucking shit that is rivaled only by Goku turning back into am unlikable retarded kid again in GT.
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Sounds like Beerus is the nigh unbeatable villain that seems to be a pitfall of shonen anime, like Madara in Naruto and Salem in RWBY if you want the dollar store version of it.
 
Random Internet Person said:
Sounds like Beerus is the nigh unbeatable villain that seems to be a pitfall of shonen anime, like Madara in Naruto and Salem in RWBY if you want the dollar store version of it.
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Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't really consider him a villain. I consider him a more chaotic neutral sensei toward Goku and Vegeta. He's different than Roshi and King Kai, who help Goku out of a desire to contribute toward saving the world etc. Beerus wants entertainment and Whis wants new GoD level fighters trained up. Super just took an unconventional approach of framing Beerus as an actual villain for the first season, but is he actually a villain by DB standards? Think of villains we've seen, basically since the early days of Dragon Ball - They want world domination, or to eliminate entire races and species, or to eliminate everything, that sort of stuff. Beerus by comparison is just a neutral deity who acts on his own impulses and is as likely to destroy your world as he is to spare it just based on how he wakes up.
Is he petty and did they turn him into a cartoonish gag bit after the first arc in Super? Yeah, definitely. But he is serving his narrative purpose, which is to help Goku get stronger. It's unclear exactly how much the angels know of the overreaching "plan" regarding Goku, since several angel level characters and the Grand Minister all seem to understand Zenos fascination with Goku much better than the GoDs they attend to or the Kais of their universes. Even Beerus seems to have some level of understanding that Goku is Anime MC #1 and thus important to things bigger than even he is. I have no doubt that the primary motivation for Beerus wanting Goku to get stronger was self serving and self preservation but I get the sense that he has bigger plans for Goku than just entertaining himself when he gets bored.
 
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One of these days, I’m just not going to care and I’ll buy all of the VIZ BIG editions of DB and DBZ before they are sold out immediately. No one ever really talks about the original manga being better than the anime. The only time where I can honestly say that the anime was at its best point, or points, was when:

-Ginyu Force being introduced while Frieza was in his original form
-Majin Vegeta having that huge “M” tattoo emblazoned on his forehead
-Cell Games looking like a Minecraft simulator
-Kid Buu being one of the best villains in the series as a whole
-Gotenks (in my opinion) being one of the best characters that Toriyama ever created

The Dragon Ball series had some funny moments, but I wouldn’t call it the greatest anime ever. I’ve noticed the so-called “fans” of the series have moved on to watching One Piece and Boruto wholeheartedly, with the former having Oda getting ready to wrap up the series with more manga chapters.

I personally never liked the relationship between Android 18 and Krillin. Even as a teen I kept thinking, why would Krillin spite Trunks and Vegeta to date and go on to marry the woman who destroyed Vegeta’s arm with one kick?

I know Krillin still had hatred for Vegeta almost killing Goku, but to date the woman who almost could have killed Krillin without Vegeta, Piccolo and Tien by his side? That’s probably the one time where I had to question why everyone thought that this shipping was a good idea.
 
I'm not reading the entire thread, but as someone that was a big fan during my childhood, they should have ended the series after Cell. The powercreep at that point was already silly, but there were never going to top the end of the Cell arc after the stupid epic Cell death scene, Goku's sendoff, etc. There's some cool stuff afterwards like Majin Vegeta, but at that point I had just felt they were dragging it out.

Buu's Fury is a great game though. I guess there's that.
 
Is this the place to discuss power levels? I want to figure out the power level of this overly-chlorinated swimming pool that defeated Goten and Trunks.

 
LeChina James said:
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One of these days, I’m just not going to care and I’ll buy all of the VIZ BIG editions of DB and DBZ before they are sold out immediately. No one ever really talks about the original manga being better than the anime. The only time where I can honestly say that the anime was at its best point, or points, was when:

-Ginyu Force being introduced while Frieza was in his original form
-Majin Vegeta having that huge “M” tattoo emblazoned on his forehead
-Cell Games looking like a Minecraft simulator
-Kid Buu being one of the best villains in the series as a whole
-Gotenks (in my opinion) being one of the best characters that Toriyama ever created

The Dragon Ball series had some funny moments, but I wouldn’t call it the greatest anime ever. I’ve noticed the so-called “fans” of the series have moved on to watching One Piece and Boruto wholeheartedly, with the former having Oda getting ready to wrap up the series with more manga chapters.

I personally never liked the relationship between Android 18 and Krillin. Even as a teen I kept thinking, why would Krillin spite Trunks and Vegeta to date and go on to marry the woman who destroyed Vegeta’s arm with one kick?

I know Krillin still had hatred for Vegeta almost killing Goku, but to date the woman who almost could have killed Krillin without Vegeta, Piccolo and Tien by his side? That’s probably the one time where I had to question why everyone thought that this shipping was a good idea.
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The anime had some great stuff that would have made the manga a little better. It's just a shame most of the unique elements in the filler were genuinely terrible and aggravating. Some highlights include;

-Gohan's training in the wilderness during the Sayain arc
-Vegeta's monologuing, especially in the Buu saga, is way better with the added material
-Tenshinhan and Yamcha get more moments to score wins in the anime.
-The extended battles with Cell and Kid Buu
-A greater glimpse of the Other World including the original characters like Pikon.

To pose a rebuttal to your spoiler point, however, Krillin was the character that first-hand experienced the nonchalant nature of the Androids and a reminder that Kami himself pointed out that it was the Dragon Team's fault for picking a fight with them. (Even suggesting that they weren't the evil he's been sensing for a while.) And in Kami's defense: He was right.

Krillin was the only character who initially saw the Androids, even #16, as people. It's not a stretch to see him eventually getting with #18 especially since supplementary material through specials and Dragon Ball Super show that #18 falls for him specifically for that reason, that he has so much respect for people.
 
X-Shaped Weeaboo said:
The anime had some great stuff that would have made the manga a little better. It's just a shame most of the unique elements in the filler were genuinely terrible and aggravating. Some highlights include;

-Gohan's training in the wilderness during the Sayain arc
-Vegeta's monologuing, especially in the Buu saga, is way better with the added material
-Tenshinhan and Yamcha get more moments to score wins in the anime.
-The extended battles with Cell and Kid Buu
-A greater glimpse of the Other World including the original characters like Pikon.

To pose a rebuttal to your spoiler point, however, Krillin was the character that first-hand experienced the nonchalant nature of the Androids and a reminder that Kami himself pointed out that it was the Dragon Team's fault for picking a fight with them. (Even suggesting that they weren't the evil he's been sensing for a while.) And in Kami's defense: He was right.

Krillin was the only character who initially saw the Androids, even #16, as people. It's not a stretch to see him eventually getting with #18 especially since supplementary material through specials and Dragon Ball Super show that #18 falls for him specifically for that reason, that he has so much respect for people.
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Always been a big fan of the Other World tournament.
 
X-Shaped Weeaboo said:
To pose a rebuttal to your spoiler point, however, Krillin was the character that first-hand experienced the nonchalant nature of the Androids and a reminder that Kami himself pointed out that it was the Dragon Team's fault for picking a fight with them. (Even suggesting that they weren't the evil he's been sensing for a while.) And in Kami's defense: He was right.

Krillin was the only character who initially saw the Androids, even #16, as people. It's not a stretch to see him eventually getting with #18 especially since supplementary material through specials and Dragon Ball Super show that #18 falls for him specifically for that reason, that he has so much respect for people.
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Respect for people is why he decided to become a police officer, since he was always about justice but had nothing against people in general and would go out of his way to lend aid to those needing it. He's stronger than the normal human man, though, but he sure as hell doesn't abuse his powers despite "downgrading".

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Kari Kamiya said:
Respect for people is why he decided to become a police officer, since he was always about justice but had nothing against people in general and would go out of his way to lend aid to those needing it. He's stronger than the normal human man, though, but he sure as hell doesn't abuse his powers despite "downgrading".

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Just like with Bulma, Krillin is about the only character that is consistently written respectfully. Sure, he gets duped into an early ringout in the Tournament of Power but audiences were already predicting him to be the first loss, and him getting taken out when he's high on a winning streak is just such a Krillin thing anyways.

I know Dragon Ball isn't exactly known for it's romantic elements, but #18 and Krillin have such a genuine dynamic that it's no wonder the two have become exceptionally more popular after hooking up. It also breaks up the pairing dynamics of the series in that #18 not only is the stronger of the pair, but astronomically so. Rather than ruin his everyman status by making him catch up to the heroes, Krillin gets to play equal to a powerhouse player and still be the underdog.

Seriously, outside of fights, Krillin just keeps on winning.
 
X-Shaped Weeaboo said:
Seriously, outside of fights, Krillin just keeps on winning.
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I think Krillin is also the only married member of the cast whose wife really 100% adores him. Yeah, the others have a happy marriage (somehow, really is hard to believe Bulma and Vegeta make it work), but even though 18 is physically stronger than her husband, she thinks he's amazing. Krillin might think he's a lucky guy with the hottest wife (if only Tien tried harder with Launch lol but I think canonically she was just too much for him?), but she's the lucky one in her mind.
 
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