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OnlyFacingRear said:
Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks voter ID is bad? How is it voter suppression? The fuck...
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In short, it's because voter ID laws block more legitimate voters than fraudulent ones. Voters already prove their identity by presenting a universal form of ID (like a birth certificate) when they register. But about 1-5% of registered voters lack a government-issued photo ID. Either because they don't drive, or are disabled, or can't easily get to a DMV to have their photo taken. And with the number of DMVs closing in certain states, it hasn't gotten any easier. The ID also costs money in many states, which makes it sort of a poll tax

It's also just an ineffective way of combatting voter fraud. Most voter fraud is done by election workers, not voters. Voter ID laws are only designed to stop one type of fraud, and that's in-person voter impersonation. Which is when someone goes into a physical polling place, claims to be someone else on the voter roll, hopes the real John Smith hasn't voted yet, and casts a vote. Virtually no one does this because it's a terribly inefficient and the most risky way of casting phony votes.

Yes you need to show a drivers license to buy cigarettes and board a plane, but those aren't constitutional rights
 
XYZpdq said:
at least there's been jokes about Trump being evil for decades, like in an old MST3k in 1990 had a joke about "here comes Donald Trump chasing all the good guys away" so they're probably at least vaguely expecting this sort of thing
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Yeah before Trump became president he's always been seen as a Rich Asshole since the 90s.
 
H3LLH4MM3R666 said:
Yes you need to show a drivers license to buy cigarettes and board a plane, but those aren't constitutional rights
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I need to show my license to buy a gun, and guns are definitely a constitutional right.

I would also think that having fair, unrigged elections is a constitutional right.
 
Truthboi said:
Yeah before Trump became president he's always been seen as a Rich Asshole since the 90s.
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90s MST3k never treated Trump as evil but as the stereotypical showy rich guy.
It’s our punishment for wanting to so much wealth! “So what’s going to happen to Donald Trump?”
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During the Joel years they did shit on Kissinger for being evil but that's deserved imho.
 
Caustic Gelatin said:
Its honestly a pretty gross mindset this whole "I am going to emotionally abuse you unless you vote the way I want you to". Its pretty fucking entitled to think I don't like candidate number 1 so YOU HAVE TO VOTE CANDIDATE B BECAUSE ITS WHAT I WANT, FUCK WHAT YOU THINK!
Its amazing that this fucker thinks people that don't want to vote is because the system will always benefit them. He can't comprehend that people can feel the opposite of the system no matter the party is constantly fucking them over? This other person they are yelling at may be disillusioned with the whole thing and wants to wash their hands of it. People can not like Trump, but that doesn't mean you have to automatically like Biden (who isn't even telling people what his policies are anymore).
Fuck this guy. People's votes are their own, and if they don't like any of the candidates then they shouldn't be forced to vote.
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It's like they think the government is supposed to be a caregiver, and therefore the input of the most "hurt" must be prioritised, moreso than our culture already does.
 
Dante Alighieri said:
I need to show my license to buy a gun, and guns are definitely a constitutional right.

I would also think that having fair, unrigged elections is a constitutional right.
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You have a right to bear arms, not necessarily to buy arms, as you can pretty easily be denied the legal ability to buy guns depending on your criminal background. But the constitution also allows states to deny people the right to vote, specifically if they are a felon or "rebel".

But no national election has ever been rigged by having some guy getting back in line at the same polling place, over and over, without getting noticed. There's the alternative method of in-person voter impersonation, you can drive to a whole bunch of different polling places. Just as long as you have access to all the voter rolls, and don't accidentally claim to be someone whos 80 or already voted. By the end of the night if everyone goes perfectly then you can probably cast maybe 6-10 votes this way!

Every single republican-lead study into voter fraud has revealed maybe 1 or 2 dozen cases of in-person voter impersonation, nationally, every 4 years. It just doesn't happen
 
H3LLH4MM3R666 said:
You have a right to bear arms, not necessarily to buy arms, as you can pretty easily be denied the legal ability to buy guns depending on your criminal background. But the constitution also allows states to deny people the right to vote, specifically if they are a felon or "rebel".

But no national election has ever been rigged by having some guy getting back in line at the same polling place, over and over, without getting noticed. There's the alternative method of in-person voter impersonation, you can drive to a whole bunch of different polling places. Just as long as you have access to all the voter rolls, and don't accidentally claim to be someone whos 80 or already voted. By the end of the night if everyone goes perfectly then you can probably cast maybe 6-10 votes this way!

Every single republican-lead study into voter fraud has revealed maybe 1 or 2 dozen cases of in-person voter impersonation, nationally, every 4 years. It just doesn't happen
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The issue, I'd say, is absentee voting. By mail, minimal checks, far easier to fudge or outright forge. Also no good solutions to it.

Voter ID laws don't really do jack shit, I agree, either positive or negative.
 
H3LLH4MM3R666 said:
You have a right to bear arms, not necessarily to buy arms, as you can pretty easily be denied the legal ability to buy guns depending on your criminal background. But the constitution also allows states to deny people the right to vote, specifically if they are a felon or "rebel".

But no national election has ever been rigged by having some guy getting back in line at the same polling place, over and over, without getting noticed. There's the alternative method of in-person voter impersonation, you can drive to a whole bunch of different polling places. Just as long as you have access to all the voter rolls, and don't accidentally claim to be someone whos 80 or already voted. By the end of the night if everyone goes perfectly then you can probably cast maybe 6-10 votes this way!

Every single republican-lead study into voter fraud has revealed maybe 1 or 2 dozen cases of in-person voter impersonation, nationally, every 4 years. It just doesn't happen
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As it turns out that the Mafia didn't exist until the 1980s because investigations by NYPD didn't turn up any organized Mafia structures.
 
Jarolleon said:
It's like they think the government is supposed to be a caregiver, and therefore the input of the most "hurt" must be prioritised, moreso than our culture already does.
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Specifically they see the government as a parent. They're just all brats that have figured out if they throw a bigger tantrum than the other kids they'll get what they want, up to and including the parent punishing the other kids.

Imagine a brat like that's reaction when the parent's suddenly had enough and stops humoring their tantrums, and it explains a lot about the last five years.
 
Ghostse said:
As it turns out that the Mafia didn't exist until the 1980s because investigations by NYPD didn't turn up any organized Mafia structures.
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But they did. I know you're suggesting that voter fraud cases aren't being found because they aren't being investigated. But they are, pretty heavily, every 5 years or so there's another GOP national commission on voter fraud.
 
Slap47 said:
Voter ID is being used by Republicans to suppress votes, but it is very telling that the Democrats have responded to Voter ID by calling for its end instead of championing free and easier to obtain IDs.

View attachment 1653785

View attachment 1653787
This is not an issue in most countries.
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What you showed there is the same as the setup in ID-required states in America, including the Option 3 for provisional ballots. In fact, most states will accept more forms of alternate ID than what you listed. Some even let you vote, leave, apply for ID, then come back within a few days and validate your ballot. Some places allow entirely non-document forms of identification; for example, West Virginia will accept your vote if the poll worker at the station recognizes you and has known you for longer than 6 months.

Are Canadians suppressing votes? You damn leafs got something you want to confess?

Because individual states have the right to set their own voting laws, the exact rules aren't nationally consistent. But none of them are stricter than the general outline laid out above, and even the most strict let you have remedies to validate it later.

Screenshot 2020-10-10 at 10.00.08 PM.png

Funny how many of those "no document required to vote" states are very heavily Democratic... 🤔

Here is the absolute strictest, least forgiving set of voting laws I could find, for Wisconsin:

Screenshot 2020-10-10 at 10.10.00 PM.png

It accepts the least number of non-state issued forms of ID, and is the only state I've found that doesn't accept non-ID card forms of identification. But it has one of the most lenient "time to validate provisional ID" periods. And WI offers a completely free voter ID card too, so there's really no reason anyone should be "disenfranchised" there.
 
I've seen (probable) voter fraud while waiting in line at a polling place, and almost had my own vote suppressed when I was removed from the rolls for no reason. (I was a registered Republican in a blue district.) I also voted in a state that required new registrants to present ID the first time they voted, but the poll workers didn't even look at mine. So I don't believe for one second we have adequate security for the most important election in the world. The laws are inadequate, and they are not being enforced. I'm fine with a unified, nationwide requirement for voter ID, or fingerprinting with indelible ink, or whatever.

BTW, in 2008, there were enough fraudulent votes cast in Minnesota to elect Al Franken to the Senate. Think of how many party line votes that affected.
 
Toxicity said:
You know you're fucked in the head when a furry with an MS Paint profile picture can out debate you.
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That is the main problem with these people they don’t debate them and have some civil discussions. Keep in mind these are the people who called trump supporters and the president “maggots” and they need to be charged. Keith Oberman said that
 
H3LLH4MM3R666 said:
You have a right to bear arms, not necessarily to buy arms, as you can pretty easily be denied the legal ability to buy guns depending on your criminal background. But the constitution also allows states to deny people the right to vote, specifically if they are a felon or "rebel".

But no national election has ever been rigged by having some guy getting back in line at the same polling place, over and over, without getting noticed. There's the alternative method of in-person voter impersonation, you can drive to a whole bunch of different polling places. Just as long as you have access to all the voter rolls, and don't accidentally claim to be someone whos 80 or already voted. By the end of the night if everyone goes perfectly then you can probably cast maybe 6-10 votes this way!

Every single republican-lead study into voter fraud has revealed maybe 1 or 2 dozen cases of in-person voter impersonation, nationally, every 4 years. It just doesn't happen
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The purpose of voter ID isn't to prevent one guy from running to ten different precincts, it's to identify people who are legally allowed to vote and prevent people who are not legally allowed to vote from doing so.

You know, like convicts. There are a lot of states where Democrats are pushing for measures to allow felons to be granted their voting rights again because they will overwhelming vote Democrat when they re-enter society.

Or illegal immigrants. Thirty million 'migrant workers' who will overwhelming vote Democrat. It's only slightly conspiratorial to believe that the 2016 popular vote would have gone to Trump if blue states didn't turn a blind eye to illegal voters.

That is why people want voter ID laws, and also why other people scream that they 'disenfranchise the people'. The people being disenfranchised are the people who have no right to vote.

On a related note to your scenario, I'm baffled that such a thing could happen. Here, you walk up to the poll worker and present your ID. They cross-reference your name with the registration database for their specific precinct. They verify your identity based on valid photo ID and signature-- this can come in over a dozen different forms and the majority of people are guaranteed to have a viable combination in their wallet any time they walk out the door. They check a box to acknowledge that you have been there and received your ballot, so once you've left the building you're already marked off as having voted and you don't go back. You fill it out and feed it into a machine that both electronically registers your vote, but also saves the piece of paper in a secure, locked box so that if anything funny happens they can be accessed and hand-counted as necessary. There's no way to vote at the wrong precinct because you won't be registered to the staff's computers. There's no way to vote twice except through human error.

The fact that similar systems aren't in place across the states is insane to me.
 
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