WWE Champions General - Despite his claims, DSP is still spending thousands of dollars on the WWE Champions mobile game

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mollymawk said:
I just think it will be really embarassing for all if eventually the theory is proven to be false.
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It wouldn’t be that embarrassing, since there seems to be a decent amount of evidence that it’s probably dsp there’s definitely still plausible deniability. And in the event that his turned out to be some super gay ops and it wasn’t really Phil, I’d like to think any reasonable person would ask where the money went then.

We have a bankruptcy form that shows he has 130k credit card debt, so it really makes you think. Did he pay back his parents? Probably not. Did he pay his taxes off? Definitely not.
 
mollymawk said:
Once again, it would be beneficial if the online status and ranking of TheyCallMeDSP was recorded and uploaded to a website or something, so people could carefully study the times and positive/negative ranking changes and cross-compare to Phil's activity and mood. If this was done, more people would analyze the data and soon discrepancies would be found, and this theory could finally be confirmed or denied. Edgon Bitervin of the dsp.institue made an effort in making this a reality by emulating the game in a virtual machine, but got bored or something. I don't want to continue to pester techie people to make this, but the idea seems dead in the water.

I would like it if those making the videos would refrain a bit from the all-but-confirmed angle.
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Just wanted to address a couple points. I'm quite -v so I'm spoilering to not take up an entire page.

First and foremost, creating some technology to get more info would be possible, but not very practical. To my knowledge, the only data we have available to us is the front-facing attributes of the account. This means you would have to create some program that constantly refreshes that page and logs all relevant data, and run it 24/7 (unless of course you could deconstruct and data scrape but that would only make it marginally easier). I'm just assuming that anyone who already has the skills to do so wouldn't think it was worth their time. I can't speak for others, but my reasons for not looking into creating one are threefold:

Fold 1: Resources: As I said before, in order for this to be effective, it would have to be running 24/7. Assuming you run an IOS VM on some hardware, you have to deal with the reality that your device is going to be in use as long as you want to be scraping. Which might not be all that big of a deal to be honest. PC operating system virtual machines aren't debilitatingly resource-intensive and I would make the assumption that mobile VMs are even lighter. However, even if you're fine with leaving your device to run you face more questions, such as how often do you collect data and how do you curate that data? Sure you could set it to request every 10 minutes but you'd still be dealing with (6*24 = 144) pieces of data every day. Besides the time it would take learning how to make the technology and then deploy it, you're also faced with the question of who is going to be tracking notable trends in the data? This leads into my second fold...

Fold 2: Autísts: Even if you were going to get all of this great, amazing data, who would look at it? Yes, this forum is comprised of people who are generally willing to go to great lengths to analyze seemingly innocuous things about DSP, but when it gets down to it you would have to have someone willing to look at all of the data from the program created and watch dozens of hours of DSP in order to correlate behaviors with trends. Based on my experience with the skeptics in this thread, all that work would just lead to people saying "yeah but it doesn't prove anything". Which also leads into my third and final fold...

Fold 3: Accuracy: I read this entire thread. It's one of my favorite in my entire tenure with the DSP subforum (along with the one about his hair please someone bring that one back). The login/logout times were tracked for a while (and may still be tracked) by the main lifter of the thread, @tzgnilki . One of the things that happened with this tracking at some point was that inconsistent login times were being reported by multiple watchers. This leads me to believe that the information you get may not be even all that accurate. Please note in this instance I mean that it appears that the login times appear to be legit, but sometimes they don't show up for some people for some reason.

So, in essence, if you were to create this technology you would spend a lot of time creating something that would take a lot of time to analyze and might not even give you correct data. On top of it all, like I said, it's not going to change anyone's mind. If someone reads the thread and looks at the login correlations, the speech analysis and the behavioral patterns, they're either going to accept that as proof or not. Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am skeptics please let me know.

I know that with DSP it's hard to really prove anything. He is someone who will hide behind the tiniest semantics in order to be 'technically not wrong' about something. The best recent example of this is his "I never said the foreclosure wasn't real I just said that people were full of shit" speech. Add that along with the entire 'Escort' fiasco (before my tenure, I accept no responsibility) and you're left with people who know that if they're wrong about any tiny detail it will be rubbed in their face for literally years to come.

However, in most court systems the proof required for something is proof 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. This obviously leads to many, many discussions about what a 'reasonable' person is. However, people have had decades of their lives decided for them with less evidence than we have here. People have been convicted of murder without the police finding a weapon, people have been convicted of rape without any witnesses or evidence and people have been convicted of theft without the stolen goods ever being recovered (not sure about the last one but it sounded good in context).

I know that almost everybody here thinks it's some cringey faggot shit to talk about DSP stuff to people in their life, so maybe just keep this to a thought experiment. Imagine talking to someone whose judgement you trust and who has no experience with DSP at all. Tell them the following:

- The person accused of having this account has admitted to playing this game before
- The person accused of having this account has admitted 'being addicted to' mobile games before
- The person accused of having this account has admitted to spending hundreds of dollars on this game
- The person accused of having this account uses the same username as the account owner
- The person accused of having this account is notorious enough that believing that the account owner has been able to exist on the internet for years without once hearing about the person associated with their account would be akin to someone in the Pharmaceutical industry not having heard of 'Martin Shkreli"
- The person accused of having this account refuses to refute the claims of account ownership with the very simple action of showing what their actual account name is
- The person accused of having this account is occupied at the times when the account owner is not active
- The person accused of having this account has the time and opportunity to play the game when the account owner is active
- The person accused of having this account has notable amounts of disposable income when the account owner is spending notable amounts of money
- The person accused of having this account types in such a similar manner to the account owner that a speech analysis program listed the odds of them not being the same person as 1 in over 7 billion (and I still want to know what program you used @That Hedonist Nerd )
- The person accused of having this account has been known to lie more often than they have been known to tell the truth

I know there are some points that I'm forgetting as well. One of the things that he does best is create doubt since often he is lying and, as such, cannot offer actual proof for his claims. Even if we were to be able to log into the account using his email address I am convinced that he would say something along the lines of "it must have been hacked and someone else was playing on it". However, I think the evidence compiled would be enough to convince a reasonable person.

One final note that I want to bring up is something in regard to the other possibility: that this was all the work of a master troll. So far if this entire thing were to be orchestrated by someone who was not DSP, this thread has seemed to agree on the following:

- The troll would need to be aware of DSP
- The troll would need to have enough of a vested interest to spend tens of thousands of dollars making DSP look bad
- The troll would need to emulate DSPs speech patterns well enough to ape him for a long time in a Discord
- The troll would need to be aware of Kiwi Farms
- The troll would need to work for literally years before anything he/she said or did was recognized
And finally....
- The troll would need to persist without ever even knowing whether or not their master plan would be discovered

With all these criteria in mind, the most obvious culprit for the Master Troll is @BT9494 . Their account was created on the day they made their first post. They have a detailed knowledge of the WWE Champions game. They just accidentally happened to stumble across DSP's account. They knew enough about the Kiwi Farms to bring it to our attention. They got to see the reaction of the subforum.

At this point I would like to apologize to @BT9494 because I believe they are not a Master Troll and may have unleashed a couple middling autísts upon them.

I'd just like to once again reaffirm that I don't believe it was a troll. If it is, then I will have egg all over my face because I think that the chance of this account not being DSP's is effectively 0.

What I am trying to say is if anyone has any level of skepticism still, why are you not trying to track down the actual perpetrator of this master trolling op? You all seem to like making fun of people who waste money trying to get DSP's goat, so why aren't you trying to find the person who spent thousands of dollars trying to make him look bad?

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong anyone with more experience than me, but the closest correlation to the way these "VIP Points" work seem to be something like "Frequent Flier Miles". You accumulate Frequent Flier Miles because you pay money to fly on a certain airline's planes. You cannot accumulate "Frequent Flier Miles" any other way. Similarly, you can only accumulate "VIP Points" by spending money on the game (hence the cost breakdown for how much each tier costs). Just something that I found weird that people weren't grasping, so I wanted to make sure I had it correct myself. I believe that @Nigel of Ukip in particular, who has always come across as reasonably logical at some point gave up on this thread because of the fluctuating number.
 
Nu11ptr said:
Just wanted to address a couple points. I'm quite -v so I'm spoilering to not take up an entire page.

First and foremost, creating some technology to get more info would be possible, but not very practical. To my knowledge, the only data we have available to us is the front-facing attributes of the account. This means you would have to create some program that constantly refreshes that page and logs all relevant data, and run it 24/7 (unless of course you could deconstruct and data scrape but that would only make it marginally easier). I'm just assuming that anyone who already has the skills to do so wouldn't think it was worth their time. I can't speak for others, but my reasons for not looking into creating one are threefold:

Fold 1: Resources: As I said before, in order for this to be effective, it would have to be running 24/7. Assuming you run an IOS VM on some hardware, you have to deal with the reality that your device is going to be in use as long as you want to be scraping. Which might not be all that big of a deal to be honest. PC operating system virtual machines aren't debilitatingly resource-intensive and I would make the assumption that mobile VMs are even lighter. However, even if you're fine with leaving your device to run you face more questions, such as how often do you collect data and how do you curate that data? Sure you could set it to request every 10 minutes but you'd still be dealing with (6*24 = 144) pieces of data every day. Besides the time it would take learning how to make the technology and then deploy it, you're also faced with the question of who is going to be tracking notable trends in the data? This leads into my second fold...

Fold 2: Autísts: Even if you were going to get all of this great, amazing data, who would look at it? Yes, this forum is comprised of people who are generally willing to go to great lengths to analyze seemingly innocuous things about DSP, but when it gets down to it you would have to have someone willing to look at all of the data from the program created and watch dozens of hours of DSP in order to correlate behaviors with trends. Based on my experience with the skeptics in this thread, all that work would just lead to people saying "yeah but it doesn't prove anything". Which also leads into my third and final fold...

Fold 3: Accuracy: I read this entire thread. It's one of my favorite in my entire tenure with the DSP subforum (along with the one about his hair please someone bring that one back). The login/logout times were tracked for a while (and may still be tracked) by the main lifter of the thread, @tzgnilki . One of the things that happened with this tracking at some point was that inconsistent login times were being reported by multiple watchers. This leads me to believe that the information you get may not be even all that accurate. Please note in this instance I mean that it appears that the login times appear to be legit, but sometimes they don't show up for some people for some reason.

So, in essence, if you were to create this technology you would spend a lot of time creating something that would take a lot of time to analyze and might not even give you correct data. On top of it all, like I said, it's not going to change anyone's mind. If someone reads the thread and looks at the login correlations, the speech analysis and the behavioral patterns, they're either going to accept that as proof or not. Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am skeptics please let me know.

I know that with DSP it's hard to really prove anything. He is someone who will hide behind the tiniest semantics in order to be 'technically not wrong' about something. The best recent example of this is his "I never said the foreclosure wasn't real I just said that people were full of shit" speech. Add that along with the entire 'Escort' fiasco (before my tenure, I accept no responsibility) and you're left with people who know that if they're wrong about any tiny detail it will be rubbed in their face for literally years to come.

However, in most court systems the proof required for something is proof 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. This obviously leads to many, many discussions about what a 'reasonable' person is. However, people have had decades of their lives decided for them with less evidence than we have here. People have been convicted of murder without the police finding a weapon, people have been convicted of rape without any witnesses or evidence and people have been convicted of theft without the stolen goods ever being recovered (not sure about the last one but it sounded good in context).

I know that almost everybody here thinks it's some cringey faggot shit to talk about DSP stuff to people in their life, so maybe just keep this to a thought experiment. Imagine talking to someone whose judgement you trust and who has no experience with DSP at all. Tell them the following:

- The person accused of having this account has admitted to playing this game before
- The person accused of having this account has admitted 'being addicted to' mobile games before
- The person accused of having this account has admitted to spending hundreds of dollars on this game
- The person accused of having this account uses the same username as the account owner
- The person accused of having this account is notorious enough that believing that the account owner has been able to exist on the internet for years without once hearing about the person associated with their account would be akin to someone in the Pharmaceutical industry not having heard of 'Martin Shkreli"
- The person accused of having this account refuses to refute the claims of account ownership with the very simple action of showing what their actual account name is
- The person accused of having this account is occupied at the times when the account owner is not active
- The person accused of having this account has the time and opportunity to play the game when the account owner is active
- The person accused of having this account has notable amounts of disposable income when the account owner is spending notable amounts of money
- The person accused of having this account types in such a similar manner to the account owner that a speech analysis program listed the odds of them not being the same person as 1 in over 7 billion (and I still want to know what program you used @That Hedonist Nerd )
- The person accused of having this account has been known to lie more often than they have been known to tell the truth

I know there are some points that I'm forgetting as well. One of the things that he does best is create doubt since often he is lying and, as such, cannot offer actual proof for his claims. Even if we were to be able to log into the account using his email address I am convinced that he would say something along the lines of "it must have been hacked and someone else was playing on it". However, I think the evidence compiled would be enough to convince a reasonable person.

One final note that I want to bring up is something in regard to the other possibility: that this was all the work of a master troll. So far if this entire thing were to be orchestrated by someone who was not DSP, this thread has seemed to agree on the following:

- The troll would need to be aware of DSP
- The troll would need to have enough of a vested interest to spend tens of thousands of dollars making DSP look bad
- The troll would need to emulate DSPs speech patterns well enough to ape him for a long time in a Discord
- The troll would need to be aware of Kiwi Farms
- The troll would need to work for literally years before anything he/she said or did was recognized
And finally....
- The troll would need to persist without ever even knowing whether or not their master plan would be discovered

With all these criteria in mind, the most obvious culprit for the Master Troll is @BT9494 . Their account was created on the day they made their first post. They have a detailed knowledge of the WWE Champions game. They just accidentally happened to stumble across DSP's account. They knew enough about the Kiwi Farms to bring it to our attention. They got to see the reaction of the subforum.

At this point I would like to apologize to @BT9494 because I believe they are not a Master Troll and may have unleashed a couple middling autísts upon them.

I'd just like to once again reaffirm that I don't believe it was a troll. If it is, then I will have egg all over my face because I think that the chance of this account not being DSP's is effectively 0.

What I am trying to say is if anyone has any level of skepticism still, why are you not trying to track down the actual perpetrator of this master trolling op? You all seem to like making fun of people who waste money trying to get DSP's goat, so why aren't you trying to find the person who spent thousands of dollars trying to make him look bad?

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong anyone with more experience than me, but the closest correlation to the way these "VIP Points" work seem to be something like "Frequent Flier Miles". You accumulate Frequent Flier Miles because you pay money to fly on a certain airline's planes. You cannot accumulate "Frequent Flier Miles" any other way. Similarly, you can only accumulate "VIP Points" by spending money on the game (hence the cost breakdown for how much each tier costs). Just something that I found weird that people weren't grasping, so I wanted to make sure I had it correct myself. I believe that @Nigel of Ukip in particular, who has always come across as reasonably logical at some point gave up on this thread because of the fluctuating number.
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yeah I gave up being autistic over the log in times when we found out it was incredibly unreliable, plus I was doing it on excel with a mobile and it was getting frustrating switching through apps & trying to log everything, then re-formatting everything when new events were happening, I wish I had a computer just to log it easier and I would've just done it manually

@BT9494 explains how he found dsp here, but anything is possible

I think the fluctuating number for money spent mainly came from speculation over how far beyond VIP level 12 DSP was at the time, the thread was created at Jan 10th, and VIP 13 ($40,000) was achieved at Jan 25th

the difference between level 12/13 is $20,000 - $40,000, PLUS additional money spent to get from VIP 0-8, 8 being the previous level cap where he might've spent once he reached that cap and points didn't carry over when the VIP level was increased to 13

I have no idea where the fuck $140,000 came from, I think it was a troll in his chat and dsp latched onto that number and tried to use it to debunk the entire meme

nigel also got pissed when the discord was posted before more information could be gathered which was my fault, I was in there under the premise of joining the guild and didn't want to get questioned about anything cause I had been scheduled for someone to "interview me", and I was worried if I got kicked then the existence of the discord itself would be a topic for discussion

reality is, he just has to lay low and wait for it to blow over and it'll be forgotten about like a lot of other things
 
If the implication is that I am some sort of plant, then I will of course deny it.

Hell, I came to Kiwi Farms and admitted to playing a mobile wrestling game. Even though the screen name I chose has no connection to anything else I have used in any way, I hope we can at least assume that I wasn't worried about getting my e-feelings hurt over that fact.

While there will probably never be a way to 100% prove that this account belongs to DSP, I think that sufficient information has been presented to at least convince enough people that it is. Personally I will be shocked if it ever comes to light that this is some random player.
 
BT9494 said:
If the implication is that I am some sort of plant, then I will of course deny it.

Hell, I came to Kiwi Farms and admitted to playing a mobile wrestling game. Even though the screen name I chose has no connection to anything else I have used in any way, I hope we can at least assume that I wasn't worried about getting my e-feelings hurt over that fact.

While there will probably never be a way to 100% prove that this account belongs to DSP, I think that sufficient information has been presented to at least convince enough people that it is. Personally I will be shocked if it ever comes to light that this is some random player.
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I think conspiracy theories are just a natural progression of what happens when there isn't enough info, especially when everything else has been talked about, that's about as deep as it gets
 
Based on all the evidence, I’m convinced it’s DSP. His vast amount of credit card debt yet nothing substantial to show for it, the unexplained black hole siphoning away his income, the whole semantics of of WWE Supercard vs, Champions in his denials, and just the sheer stupidity of wasting $40k + on a game unless you are Uber-wealthy leads me to belive it’s him. It’s kinda like the fun you have imagining how you’d spend the lottery jackpot if you won. Don’t take this away from me...
 
BT9494 said:
If the implication is that I am some sort of plant, then I will of course deny it.

Hell, I came to Kiwi Farms and admitted to playing a mobile wrestling game. Even though the screen name I chose has no connection to anything else I have used in any way, I hope we can at least assume that I wasn't worried about getting my e-feelings hurt over that fact.

While there will probably never be a way to 100% prove that this account belongs to DSP, I think that sufficient information has been presented to at least convince enough people that it is. Personally I will be shocked if it ever comes to light that this is some random player.
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Will you show us your WWE Champions account?
 
ReentryPhantom said:
Will you show us your WWE Champions account?
Click to expand...


I have considered this and I'm honestly not sure there is any way for someone to prove they do control an account without providing login details that can be verified by a third party. Even then, these guild/faction things mean that others could be helping, meaning they could be borrowing an account to try and throw off suspicion.

At the same time, proving you don't control an account seems to be literally impossible. You could always just be hiding your ability to access it.

This is the thing that has been the biggest sticking point for me: without access to user metadata (like email, passwords and IPs for login/device info if they're stored) proof seems impossible. Even if we got someone at Scopely to tell us "Yes this account belongs to this person" it's all word-of-mouth. The only thing I could think of that might help at this point would be if the company was part of a hack where a bunch of user metadata was accessed. But even then, you would need to have whoever did it release it instead of keeping it private.

Actually, thinking of it, there would be a way without involving Scopely. I think that there is irrefutable proof that the Discord owner and account owner are one and the same. By associative principle, if you can prove who owns the Discord account you can prove who owns the Scopely account. Many of the same problems apply, but since it's a bigger site/app I think that would be the easier of the two.

All this being said, if it really is DSP's account, it's his one joy in life. If he ever got locked out I'm positive he would squeal like he's never squealed before.
 
WWE Champions isn't a joy when you get to the levels Phil is at. Once you beat all the single player "puzzles", it's just doing the same mindless matches/faction events a million times that are 99.99% dependent on who spent the most money to get the best stats. Phil is only playing at this point to brag how much money he's burned and to get asspats from his guild.
 
BT9494 said:
I will, but my screen name and faction info will get redacted. It's not going to show you a whole lot.
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If people are really itching for proof this is not some elaborate troll, maybe @Haunter, you, and I can do some kind of verification. For the record, I don't think you're fucking with us, but if you want to do this, drop a PM.
 
tzgnilki said:
yeah I gave up being autistic over the log in times when we found out it was incredibly unreliable, plus I was doing it on excel with a mobile and it was getting frustrating switching through apps & trying to log everything, then re-formatting everything when new events were happening, I wish I had a computer just to log it easier and I would've just done it manually

@BT9494 explains how he found dsp here, but anything is possible

I think the fluctuating number for money spent mainly came from speculation over how far beyond VIP level 12 DSP was at the time, the thread was created at Jan 10th, and VIP 13 ($40,000) was achieved at Jan 25th

the difference between level 12/13 is $20,000 - $40,000, PLUS additional money spent to get from VIP 0-8, 8 being the previous level cap where he might've spent once he reached that cap and points didn't carry over when the VIP level was increased to 13

I have no idea where the fuck $140,000 came from, I think it was a troll in his chat and dsp latched onto that number and tried to use it to debunk the entire meme

nigel also got pissed when the discord was posted before more information could be gathered which was my fault, I was in there under the premise of joining the guild and didn't want to get questioned about anything cause I had been scheduled for someone to "interview me", and I was worried if I got kicked then the existence of the discord itself would be a topic for discussion

reality is, he just has to lay low and wait for it to blow over and it'll be forgotten about like a lot of other things
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Maybe the 140k is a rounding up of his credit debt, and in true DSP fashion, he's making some weird mixed denial of the gacha and the debt amount.

EDIT: I probably should have read your entire post, because you basically said what I'm saying already.
 
The meme in his chat is 140k or 150k for WWE Champions, but people have been permabanned simply for typing 40k.

Also, in typical DSP fashion, he works so hard to tell people he doesn't care about pro wrestling anymore, and woe to those who care, that even the most uninterested party can see he cares.
 
ZehnBoat said:
nothing that would pass in court

but we aren't a court so whatever
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Depends on the court with regards to burden of proof.

Criminal? It's gotta be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Civil? More likely than not/51% or more.

Just going off the shit that has been found and shown, one would be hard-pressed to say that it isn't more likely than not that this account is in fact Phil.
 
darkwingosonichugorl said:
The $140k was a fan/troll and Phil used his obvious exaggerated post to make a exceptional debunking attempt.
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99% it was a mod or paypig. This same thing always happens whenever something is found out about DSP behind the scenes. He starts to talks about it and someone in his chat starts saying "the trolls are saying you have 2 bmws" or "you owe a million dollars" or some bullshit like that. Then anytime it's brought up again he uses what that person in chat said to deflect.

It's easily his most obvious tell so that makes it even funnier when he does it.
 
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Idk if it exists or not, but the potential existence of a Twitch mod discord server is capable of settling all debate this thread has. And I'm honestly surprised that a rogue mod hasn't yet posted to confirm or deny the discord account belonging to Phil. We know his discord name and identification number, and the only way to change it is by changing the name entirely. But in the same breath, I can also see Phil using an alternate discord login to cover his tracks. The dumb profile picture he has of Andre the Giant is a clear sign that the TheyCallMeDSP account is specifically made to cater to that one guild server.
 
subtleT said:
Idk if it exists or not, but the potential existence of a Twitch mod discord server is capable of settling all debate this thread has. And I'm honestly surprised that a rogue mod hasn't yet posted to confirm or deny the discord account belonging to Phil. We know his discord name and identification number, and the only way to change it is by changing the name entirely. But in the same breath, I can also see Phil using an alternate discord login to cover his tracks. The dumb profile picture he has of Andre the Giant is a clear sign that the TheyCallMeDSP account is specifically made to cater to that one guild server.
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I'd be willing to bet there's a mod discord. Since Twitch eliminated the Twitch chat rooms, Phil and his mods have been able to communicate somewhere in real-time. Given that Discord is on his fucking desktop, that's the most likely option.

Combine that with his insistence now that he has absolutely no idea how Discord works and how he normally reacts when he tries to hide stuff ("I have no idea what you're talking", "that's nonsense", etc).


Yo @yusuke14k, was there a Mod Discord room?
 
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