That being said, the first person I reached out to about this issue is Kaylyn Saucedo, also known as
MarzGurl on Twitter. Kaylin has been, and remains, one of the most vocal critics of Mignogna, and has also suffered her fair share of backlash from the more rabid of Mignogna fans and was even (weakly) threatened with legal action by Mignogna’s lawyer, Ty Beard if she didn’t retract her statements and accusations. She refused and no legal action was taken against her. She was nice enough to sit down with this dork for a short interview over Direct Messenger.
Cajun Samurai: Thanks so much again for this! I’m so excited to interview you since you are, arguably, one of the most fascinating people in this whole situation. I wanna start thinks off in the old southern tradition of starting a conversation… How you doing? How is your kinfolk doing?
Kaylyn: You know, I’m more or less okay, all things considered.
Samurai: I would imagine so. So, we’re one year into this insanity…and only now we’re kind of getting a peek at the light at the end of the tunnel. When all this started, did you ever think that it would blow up like it has? I mean, a year ago today, we were all just trying to digest this, and over the last few months, we’ve seen major news organizations like NPR and The Dallas Morning News take on this topic. A far cry from the internet, huh?
Kaylyn: No, not at all. I thought just like every single other time it came up over the years, nobody was going to care. But even by the time I jumped in, thousands of people were already talking about this. I thought I was just gonna be another voice, not nearly as much of an amplifier. I’ve done other hashtags for various things, and nobody has ever cared about those. I figure that has to have meant there was something to it, because you don’t typically see thousands of people crying out about something like this for no reason. I guess everyone truly was sick of not being heard for years. I mean, everybody knew, man. For people to come around now and say it wasn’t happening is ludicrous, when an entire generation of convention attendees saw it with their own eyes.
Samurai: I’m glad that you mentioned the earlier times this has come up. I recall hearing rumblings and rumors about that on some forums way back in the early 2000’s, but they were easily shot down and/or covered over. Do you think the fact that notable people like yourself, Monica (Rial) and Jamie (Marchi) speaking out made the difference this time? Or was this destined to happen with the ever-growing “Me Too” movement?
Kaylyn: It’s interesting, because thousands of people were talking about this mid-January, before anybody of note ever stepped in and said anything, and I don’t know if my participation in specific helped, or if it was just the hashtag. I think the fact that thousands of people were already talking about it means that somebody was going to say something eventually and it was all gonna blow up no matter what. Remember, the original tweet that blew up was written by an absolute nobody. I’m sure #MeToo had a whole hell of a lot to do with that working out as well as it did.
Samurai: By that same extension, do you think that there are non-anime related influences with “ISWV”? I mean, over the last year, it feels like this has exploded beyond “My favorite anime voice actor is being harassed”. Listening to some of these fans, it’s more like an uprising of angry white men.
[Note—ISWV is shorthand for “I Stand With Vic”. This was a hashtag created on Twitter to show solidarity for Mignogna and acted as a counter to the hashtag “Kick Vic”.]
Kaylyn: That might be. For sure, Comicsgate jumped in when many of them had no idea who Vic was, and few of them watched anime. I have definitely seen a fair share of, “I didn’t even know who he was but…” in his defense. They would have been angry at any perceived SJW (Social Justice Warrior) movement, and this just happened to be the next one.
Samurai: The grifters in other words. They just jump on a bandwagon and ride it like a Shetland Pony. Okay, so Mignogna files the lawsuit, we go through all that drama, and if I recall correctly, you’re mentioned a couple times in the depositions and testimony…what was that like seeing your name and info pop up in a legal document like that with millions on the line?
Kaylyn: Well, I remember the day the lawsuit was filed, and I kept asking a lawyer acquaintance of mine to help me keep an eye on it. He was assuring me at that point that a lawsuit would never happen, and that if it did, I wouldn’t be a named party. But Ty, Nick, and Vic kept making moves that sounded like they were pretty serious, and they’d already sent me a letter telling me not to delete any of my correspondence, which told me that they were at least trying to put the fear of God in me that I could be a target of a lawsuit. Anyway, so the lawsuit drops, and my acquaintance tells me that my name pops up in passing, but that’s it. A lot of emotions went through my head. Relief that I wasn’t a named party, sad for those that were named, amused that all these people had been telling me I was gonna get sued and then I wasn’t, etc. But it just sort of felt like, why is my name even here? Just to get my name in there and point a finger as a means of public shame? They started by naming myself and the other individual whose viral tweet truly started the whole movement off, and then it just didn’t make any sense why the people getting sued were in fact getting sued. If they didn’t start the wave of allegations, why are they getting punished for it? Like I said, I felt all kinds of things, mostly that it was clear that they wanted to make sure my name was permanently associated with the movement. And, in general, well, that’s just kinda scummy.
Samurai: Oh yeah, and in addition to adding all that worry and stress about possibly getting sued, you also had to worry about the public thrashing from the fans. I know you, Monica, Jamie and Ron went through quite a lot in the last year in that regard including quite a few bans from Twitter, doxxing, and so many other things. If you don’t mind my asking, what was the worst part of the fan backlash and how on earth did you handle it?
Kaylyn: A lot of it was bad. But things that all kind of blended together were being hunted down and harassed by tens of thousands of people on every social media platform, getting doxxed, all the death threats, etc. YouTube was where it was really the worst, because that’s where people blatantly make the most money off of drama, even if the information is incorrect or inaccurate. It’s incredibly easy to stoke the fires of anger, and like we kinda discussed earlier, the YouTubers don’t really even care about Vic. They’re just in it for the money. I think an incredibly small number of Vic fans actually have finally figured it out, but even if you believe that Vic didn’t do anything he’s accused of doing, the YouTubers aren’t helping. Striking up a militant angry army in Vic’s name in no way helps Vic. If anything, it’s going to make major events even more hesitant to invite him because he now brings a toxic, outraged audience with him everywhere he goes. So, I say all that to say that my
YouTube channel to this day is still attacked pretty viciously, even though only one video has ever even briefly mentioned this issue, and hardly even by name. I still get threats, a whole slew of harassment, and while new videos of mine do very well with my audience for the first couple days, it’s after that that the only people who come by are people just kinda looking to do a drive-by on my channel and down vote new videos to oblivion, not because they even bothered to watch it and dislike the video based on its content, but because it’s there and it was made by me. To have to moderate your own content where people are telling you to hang yourself and join your beloved pet in the afterlife who died just a few months ago is astoundingly difficult. Handling it is… well, I dunno, really. I kinda just do it ’cause I have to. There are plenty of people who have told me to just go offline, some even saying I should deactivate all my social media, maybe start all over again. And while I can absolutely see the mental health benefits to doing that, that’s also exactly what the harassers want. They want to make sure you disappear, so that you aren’t around to be a voice saying that any of what has been happening has been wrong or bad. And, well, some would say, “Who cares if they win?” I kinda have to counter that with, well, they think they win no matter what. They think they win if I disappear, they think they win if I stick around to be harassed more, they think they win if I block them, they think they win if I respond, they think they win if I don’t respond, it really doesn’t matter. So, to that end, I may as well just go on living and doing what I’m doing, regardless of the harassment, because at least then I’m doing what I want to do on my own terms. I don’t know if that’s “winning”, but it’s certainly what makes me feel the most fulfilled.
Samurai: Well, I’ll tell you one thing–for what it’s worth, you have my admiration and respect. Not many people could possibly put up with all you, Monica and Jamie have…Lord knows I couldn’t. You know, though this whole experience, there’s been a lot of back and forward, mostly on the internet through 280 characters, or in Mignogna’s case, through his infamous little clips on Unlocked Live. There has been little, if any, face-to-face dialogue or conversations (at least from what I’ve seen) If you had Vic Mignogna, Nick Reikata, and Ty Beard in front of you right now, sitting across from you at a table, where they couldn’t say a single word to you for all of, let’s say, 3-5 minutes, is there anything you would say to them or ask them?
Kaylyn: Quite frankly, I have no desire to ever be in the same room as the people who have
directly wished for physical pain and suffering and directed entire legions of people to come at me and threaten to kill me. All I want is to say what I’ve already said. Keep going down this road, and someone will actually get physically hurt because of the constant encouragement of harassment. I don’t care what happens to me, but if other people get hurt because of this insanity, that’s going to be unforgivable. Just start improving your lives now and walk away from inciting armies of hate. But again, I kinda have no desire to ever be in the same room.
Samurai: Okay, last question I promise! I mentioned earlier that this case has recently been made public with the Dallas Morning News articles and the article on NPR’s All Things Considered. I’m personally afraid that this will be yet another negative mark against the anime community regardless of what side someone is on. If someone from the outside the anime world looking in sees this whole case going down and thinks “See, those anime guys are nothing but perverts and monsters and crazy kooks!” how would you convince them otherwise?
Kaylyn: Any community has a group of less-than-savory people, whatever fan community you might be a part of. Anime is just a medium in which to tell stories, just the same as live action film, TV, theater, video games, etc. Anime itself can be very good and tell some incredible stories. It’s hard to tell you that THESE people who have done such terrible things aren’t concerning. But the Internet is full of a lot of concerning people everywhere. What you really have to do is avoid the pockets of communities who are willing to watch angry, reactionary videos. The people who aren’t watching the manipulative grifters aren’t responding this way. Also, please watch Satoshi Kon’s movies. His films like
Perfect Blue and
Paprika should show you that anime has so much good to offer this world.
And that’s it for my interview with Kaylyn Saucedo! Honestly guys, it was an honor to interview her, and I appreciate that she took the time to give me some perspective on this whole situation.
Tomorrow (hopefully) I’ll be posting another interview with a good friend of mine who has been following the entire case closely from the beginning to offer up another perspective into this entire thing. Please look forward to it!
[
Editors Note: I’m stupid guys. I’m prodigiously stupid. After this article went live, a couple kind souls on Twitter pointed out that I actually misspelled Kaylyn’s name wrong. See, this is what happens whenever I type right after work or in the mornings before work. I sincerely apologize for my mistake, and went back and made corrections where needed. Thanks again to those who pointed out my error and I hope there wil be fewer in the future…I hope.]
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