Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Ihavetinyweewee]

At this point, nothing would surprise me with Disney and what it puts into its bastardized version of Star Wars. I'd honestly expect them to take Mara Jade and ruin her somehow -- so much so that only her name would be what she shared in common with the original EU version.

I'm not sure they'd throw Thrawn into the Mandalorian show. They already animated him and put him into Rebels only to have him be cucked and defeated by Space Alladin and his Wonderful Space Whales. if Thrawn somehow appears, I'd expect Disney to trash the character's reputation even further -- making fans regret their social media campaign to have him be recanonized by Disney.


As much as I think Disney's Star War content is worse than shit-tier fanfiction, I still enjoy the classic stuff in the form of the first six films. I was never into the EU that much, but I'll accept it over the Disney EU any day because the former -- if I recall -- had different levels of canon status ranging from "official" to "gawd awful - ignore at all costs" which made it easier for fans to pick and choose what they wanted and decide for themselves what they were willing to accept as non-film world-building content.


Not knowing all the intricate details, it's possible Lucas only had plans for the OT and once it was received as positively as it was by fans with a desire for more content, h had to scramble to come up with more material in short order. That can be a challenge even for someone as talented as Lucas, especially if he hadn't thought of any extended material before hand and had to come up with something on the fly so much so he ended up making stuff up as he went along. I do agree at some point, a franchise just seems to get tired or stale where even new content seems like its repeating stuff form the past the longer it remains active.
For Disney, however, they had a reputation for creativity. To see them be as non-creative as possible with the new trilogy, however, is shocking, and a huge letdown. If it's that hard to come up with quality original content, perhaps its time to put the franchise on ice for now.


That reminds me of a gag game called Polish Poker where everyone gets one card that they have to hold face up on their forehead and then players bet on their chances to win based on everyone else's card but their own. This would be the perfect deck of cards for a gag game like that.

Any other sci-fi universe that used futuristic cards or game pieces crafted theirs to look and be practical for whatever fictitious game was being played. Disney's lack of proverbial nose for details is certainly disappointing.

Star Wars envisioned as a matinee serial. 12 parts, originally. That got refined to nine(around ESB), which got truncated to six...

George only really had passion for Star Wars when doing the OT. It became a burdem around ROTJ.

He did have a vague back story which evolved over time for the PT(not too dissimlar to the OT).

But, when he got around to making it: George was more interested as using them as platform for his FX innovations. I think he believed he could 'wow' the audience with a marginal story but amazing FX...

If you listen to him talk about the prequels, he is like, "yeah, its crap, but it's supposed to be"...

 

[Ghostse]

I don't really like the original movies anymore. The "I am your father" plot twist now appears to be hack writing to me. The same goes for the "Leia is Luke's sister" twist. That stuff is very unimpressive to me now.

Star Wars envisioned as a matinee serial. 12 parts, originally. That got refined to nine(around ESB), which got truncated to six...

George only really had passion for Star Wars when doing the OT. It became a burdem around ROTJ.

He did have a vague back story which evolved over time for the PT(not too dissimlar to the OT).

But, when he got around to making it: George was more interested as using them as platform for his FX innovations. I think he believed he could 'wow' the audience with a marginal story but amazing FX...

If you listen to him talk about the prequels, he is like, "yeah, its crap, but it's supposed to be"...

George was always a hack writer, but as his films made more money he was given greater and greater control, which resulted in shit like Ewoks and "I hate sand". He knew you had to push toys because merch was where the money really was.

Vader being Luke's father was still a solid twist. As @Ihavetinyweewee said, its a tribute to matinee serial space opera.


FUN FACT: Kenner, bought by Hasbro, neglected to renew the star wars action figures license in the mid-nineties (a contract that greatly favored Kenner/Hasbro). Shortly after Hasbro let the deal lapse, Lucas announces the prequels, negotiating a much better deal for George. That sure was one heck of coincidence!

 

[Dom Cruise]

Star Wars envisioned as a matinee serial. 12 parts, originally. That got refined to nine(around ESB), which got truncated to six...

George only really had passion for Star Wars when doing the OT. It became a burdem around ROTJ.

He did have a vague back story which evolved over time for the PT(not too dissimlar to the OT).

But, when he got around to making it: George was more interested as using them as platform for his FX innovations. I think he believed he could 'wow' the audience with a marginal story but amazing FX...

If you listen to him talk about the prequels, he is like, "yeah, its crap, but it's supposed to be"...

I think what George was going for with the Prequels and it's arguable how well he succeeded, but looking at it from this angle at least makes the movies a little more understandable, is that since they were "Prequels" he decided to take the 1930s science fiction influence even further.

Star Wars had always been informed by that stuff, but the OT was also informed by the times in which they were conceived, the 1970s, so you had that scrappy, lived in look of everything, anticipating other sci fi films of the general era like Alien and Blade Runner, that was just the vibe of the the times.

But for the Prequels he decided to go more all in with the Flash Gordon vibes, hence the cheesier tone and dialog, trouble is that was so out of lockstep with turn of the millennium culture, which was all about being edgy, snarky and ironic, that people just didn't know what to make of what was essentially a 1930s serial on a bigger budget and with then modern special effects.

This is all summed up simply by the title of the second one, Attack of The Clones, doesn't that just sound like something from that era? Attack! Of the Clones!

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

I watched 'Star Wars' again on Friday night, and realised it is one of the most camp movies I have ever seen.

 

[HeyYou]

I watched 'Star Wars' again on Friday night, and realised it is one of the most camp movies I have ever seen.

The prequels have some dogshit dialogue, but people are deluding themselves if they don't think the OT had some wonderfully cheesy lines at times. I love them for it. The difference between the OT and ST is that the OT knew when to take itself seriously and maintained a believable level of old-timey dialogue throughout. The ST characters are quip machines rather than speaking like they're in an old serial and the tone has no consistency, unlike the OT.

 

[Ghostse]

I think what George was going for with the Prequels and it's arguable how well he succeeded, but looking at it from this angle at least makes the movies a little more understandable, is that since they were "Prequels" he decided to take the 1930s science fiction influence even further.

Star Wars had always been informed by that stuff, but the OT was also informed by the times in which they were conceived, the 1970s, so you had that scrappy, lived in look of everything, anticipating other sci fi films of the general era like Alien and Blade Runner, that was just the vibe of the the times.

But for the Prequels he decided to go more all in with the Flash Gordon vibes, hence the cheesier tone and dialog, trouble is that was so out of lockstep with turn of the millennium culture, which was all about being edgy, snarky and ironic, that people just didn't know what to make of what was essentially a 1930s serial on a bigger budget and with then modern special effects.

This is all summed up simply by the title of the second one, Attack of The Clones, doesn't that just sound like something from that era? Attack! Of the Clones!

The Gen 1 Clone helmets are nearly right out of Flash Gordon, fins and all.

Doesn't really make them good, but Lucas at least had a coherent vision of the giant mounds of cash he was going to make from merch that was implemented and executed. That's the difference between "eh, didn't really like it" and absolute trash fire the ST is.

I still think having an editor and needing to justify some of the writing to people he didn't control would have fixed a lot of the problems with the prequels. The ideas were solid, the execution was mismanaged.

 

[FlightOfTheBumbleBee]

George was always a hack writer, but as his films made more money he was given greater and greater control, which resulted in shit like Ewoks and "I hate sand". He knew you had to push toys because merch was where the money really was.

Vader being Luke's father was still a solid twist. As @Ihavetinyweewee said, its a tribute to matinee serial space opera.


FUN FACT: Kenner, bought by Hasbro, neglected to renew the star wars action figures license in the mid-nineties (a contract that greatly favored Kenner/Hasbro). Shortly after Hasbro let the deal lapse, Lucas announces the prequels, negotiating a much better deal for George. That sure was one heck of coincidence!

At least you don't try to defend the Leia twist. These twists aren't solid at all. It's as if Agent Smith was revealed to be Neo's dad in the Matrix Reloaded. It's horrific. You can think of a billion alternative examples other than the matrix.

 

[Dom Cruise]

The Gen 1 Clone helmets are nearly right out of Flash Gordon, fins and all.

Doesn't really make them good, but Lucas at least had a coherent vision of the giant mounds of cash he was going to make from merch that was implemented and executed. That's the difference between "eh, didn't really like it" and absolute trash fire the ST is.

I still think having an editor and needing to justify some of the writing to people he didn't control would have fixed a lot of the problems with the prequels. The ideas were solid, the execution was mismanaged.

It doesn't make them good, no, the Prequels are at best flawed movies, sure.

But I can't help but wonder if people were simply too hard to them, if looking at them from the right angle could maybe minimize some of the flaws, I really need to re-watch them someday.

I just look back at the cynicism that was going around in the 90s and the 2000s and it's just so dated today, you know what I mean? And that's the thing about The Last Jedi is it was a very cynical movie, I think that's why people have reacted so badly to it, it was a Star Wars movies for cynics and that just rings so false for what Star Wars is all about.

At least you don't try to defend the Leia twist. These twists aren't solid at all. It's as if Agent Smith was revealed to be Neo's dad in the Matrix Reloaded. It's horrific. You can think of a billion alternative examples other than the matrix.

There's nothing with the "I am your father twist", the Leia twist is somewhat ehhhhh though.

 

[BScCollateral]

And there's nothing wrong with the props looking futuristic and alien. That's kind of the point.

To some extent, games are an expression of their components. The pieces in shogi are all the same color; the owning player is indicated by the direction the piece points.

"It's a gambling game with cards that do not conceal their value" is a perfectly decent bit of other-world worldbuilding. I don't know how that would work, but I'll bet a thread on a decent board game forum would whip up a usable design. "Space Poker" isn't one of them.

 

[Miller]

It's totally possible to come up with a space card game. Battlestar Galactica had the Triad (or Pyramid in the Original Series).

 

[knightlautrec]

Star Wars already had a canon card game... Pazaak.

 

[FlightOfTheBumbleBee]

.




There's nothing with the "I am your father twist", the Leia twist is somewhat ehhhhh though.

Why does the Vader thing get a free pass while the Leia bit is ehhh? These plot twists are cut from the same cloth.

 

[Overcast]

Why does the Vader thing get a free pass while the Leia bit is ehhh? These plot twists are cut from the same cloth.

Probably because the Vader thing fundamentally changed the dynamic of the story and put everything that happened prior to that scene in a completely different light. It also presented a lot of questions to the viewer.

"Did Obi-Wan lie? If so, why?"

"Does that mean Luke might turn to the Dark Side?"

"Will Luke have to kill his own father?"

"Will his father have some sort of redemption arc?"

That scene is probably the poster-child for plot twists in movies for a very good reason.

The Leia bit by comparison didn't really change all that much. It explained why Leia had the force, but ultimately, it didn't really alter how the characters interacted with each other.

Personally, I never minded it, but looking back it probably wasn't necessary either. It also made certain scenes in the previous film rather uncomfortable in retrospect.

 

[Shokew]

Here's a question, are any of you over Star Wars as a whole or do you still love classic Star Wars?

A lot of the mystique around the franchise as a whole has been ruined, but I'll always love the original trilogy no matter what, they are still some of the coolest movies ever made.

And for all its faults it's so, so easy to just dismiss Disney Wars as a bunch of fan fiction bullshit that doesn't count, Star Wars for better and worse was always Lucas' baby, without him it's very, very easy to dismiss anything that didn't have his input.

Because I'm sure George at least privately agrees with us that Disney has dropped the ball.

As a filthy casual with some love and respect for this franchise and whatnot:

- The Original Trilogy still holds up as good simple science fiction fare, even if I agree with Media Zealot (a YouTuber who made a vid on the subject) that the Galactic Empire really is a sci-fi species that would definitely be too stupid to exist (especially IRL).

- The Prequel Trilogy is only good for The Clone wars material it spawned (namely the Clone Wars animated fare). That's it. There's a certain YouTuber out there who made these crappy movies actually into something good... I can't remember the link, but i can easily say if Lucas hired him to make those prequels films, this trilogy might have actually been GOOD. Instead, the only good to come out of this is a fake conflict between clones and droids being toyed with like just one big fucking puppet show, honestly.

- The only things that truly are good to come out of this outside of that (The OT) are - again, The Clone Wars (particularly either animated series and some of the games based on this), Rebels (fuck you, I liked it.), and Rogue One (for just being a fun action romp to sit through, honestly - something I've missed from this series for a long time.).

- Disney is wise to NOT touch / pretty much ignore the old EU. It makes ignoring and making fun of their BS take on all of this so much easier and easier to swallow - again, IMHO. Even if Disney doesn't care about the old EU, the old EU is and has always been still there. The FACT that folks like us are keeping it alive means it can NEVER die.

All I can take away from this as a filthy casual: Don't listen to Disney. The old (as in good (although not without its flaws and issues) EU) can and will never die. Something we'd all be wise to never forget, too.

 

[HeyYou]

Mara and Thrawn will derail any attempt at a space Western with new characters, so you genuinely might as well say fuck it and include Luke and other more popular characters. This just makes me sad, in an alternate universe Disney might have at least allowed an adaptation of Legends material to keep both universes going.

 

[Creep3r]

Mara and Thrawn will derail any attempt at a space Western with new characters, so you genuinely might as well say fuck it and include Luke and other more popular characters. This just makes me sad, in an alternate universe Disney might have at least allowed an adaptation of Legends material to keep both universes going.

I think all attempts at making this an interesting space western became a mute point when they wouldn't shut up about how this show is actually about the First Order and their origins. Seriously. Just fuck off with that Disney. You have a chance to actually make a decent show here about cowboys in a fantasy/scifi setting. Don't ruin it by incorporating your shitty Empire donut steals and tying it in with your awful nu-trilogy. Or worse bring back beloved characters just to rape them some more like Filoni did when he had Thrawn raped to death by magic, tentacled, purple, space whales. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Han and Luke are in this too where we see Han get talked down and bullied by Yellow Yoda and his feminist Ewok sidekick and Luke reveals that he has a fetish for manatee-like aliens with a "feminine penis" while needing to be saved from an ass-pegging by Yellow Yoda. I mean seriously, Yellow Yoda, Han and Hondo the Pirate have been shoved into almost every story/timeline Disney has produced. Its almost certain that one or all three will be in this, especially Hondo (along with that Mr. Plank guy I talked about 2 pages ago) since they're disturbingly omnipresent. As for keeping both going, Disney supposedly didn't want the competition or to cause confusion with their one and true canon. Also I should mention that (in regards to Disney and the Wizard of Oz alien I mentioned on the last page) Oz and the Tin Man may exist in SW under Disney according to their novelization of the ESB from 2015 "The ESB: So You Want To Be A Jedi?".

 

[Ghostse]

At least you don't try to defend the Leia twist. These twists aren't solid at all. It's as if Agent Smith was revealed to be Neo's dad in the Matrix Reloaded. It's horrific. You can think of a billion alternative examples other than the matrix.

Yeah Leia being his sister was dumb, and I'm guessing was only really to explain why Luke didn't complain about being cucked by Hans. Melodramatic "twists" like that are common in the matinee serials.

The Vader twist at least seemed to have some forethought put into it. I think the true issue is that most of "punch" has been sapped from it, since its practically its own trope by this point. You don't need to have watched the films to be aware of the twist.
The only real issue I have there is that they didn't do enough with that as a motivation at the end of RotS.

It doesn't make them good, no, the Prequels are at best flawed movies, sure.

But I can't help but wonder if people were simply too hard to them, if looking at them from the right angle could maybe minimize some of the flaws, I really need to re-watch them someday.

I just look back at the cynicism that was going around in the 90s and the 2000s and it's just so dated today, you know what I mean? And that's the thing about The Last Jedi is it was a very cynical movie, I think that's why people have reacted so badly to it, it was a Star Wars movies for cynics and that just rings so false for what Star Wars is all about.

I don't disagree that the Prequels - Except AotC, that movie was a hot fucking mess until the last 30 minutes or so* - got more vitrol tossed at them than they deserved. PM was really slow, AotC was a cringingly poorly executed romance, and RotS just couldn't get out from the weight of those first two and didn't do a very good job handling the transition from Anakin to Vader.

I don't even think its the cynicism or the zietguiest or whatever. I think it was people waited 15 years for a new star wars movie, fans were fueled by LucasFilms to generate a ton of hype; I don't even think a good movie could have lived up to the hype, but a mediocre one just felt like a slap in the face. "It took you a decade and a half to make this?".

Its even worse when you do a little investigation, and it looks like Lucas just put Star Wars movies into hiberation until he could get the rights to the toys back.


TLJ was shit because they chose one of the worst people possible to write/direct a numbered Star Wars movie.

*Again, the broad strokes of "Annakin and Padme fall in love, Palpatine starts to isolate and corrupt Anakin, the Death of Anakin's mother gives him his first touch of the darkside, the galatic civil war starts in earnest" are fine, the execution was just clunky and cringy.

I think all attempts at making this an interesting space western became a mute point when they wouldn't shut up about how this show is actually about the First Order and their origins. Seriously. Just fuck off with that Disney. You have a chance to actually make a decent show here about cowboys in a fantasy/scifi setting. Don't ruin it by incorporating your shitty Empire donut steals and tying it in with your awful nu-trilogy. Or worse bring back beloved characters just to rape them some more like Filoni did when he had Thrawn raped to death by magic, tentacled, purple, space whales.

I think having it set after TFA could make it interesting (so Disney will not be doing that).
You have a space-western, but here the confederacy won the civil war, and has finally recovered enough to try to bring the western part of the country to heel. Hostile natives, local populations with divided loyalties, and local politicians and leaders who care more about keeping their power.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I think having it set after TFA could make it interesting (so Disney will not be doing that).
You have a space-western, but here the confederacy won the civil war, and has finally recovered enough to try to bring the western part of the country to heel. Hostile natives, local populations with divided loyalties, and local politicians and leaders who care more about keeping their power.

Thing is if the Confederacy had won it would've been the continuation of the old USA all but in name. As IRL those United States ceded (the North) or lost (the South) their sovereignty to the Federal Govt. thus becoming the United States.

 

[Adamska]

So... it looks like there may be more to these rumors about Mara and Thrawn being in The Mandalaroian than we thought...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=IgKmpHua6FwJust what the fuck is Disney even doing anymore? This is the most hollow fanpandering imaginable. Its corporate clickbait that fakes submission but really its just them stroking their own egos some more. Might as well just make them completely different characters considering how disconnected they are from their original incarnations. Its basically how they've handled their shitty new trilogy "Hey guys! This is our own trilogy but its actually the OT, but superior! Do not steal!"

They've also announced that Disney+ will have Disney Afternoon with a bunch of old cartoons from Toon Disney to try and boost appeal for nostalgiafags.

Disney's either just reusing names and appearances for OCs, is going to Phasma them with bit-roles and make them not really the characters before ruining/killing them off again to prevent George from getting a cut for too long, or flat out will lie about this given how often they cut or will make shit up before release.

The second option is most likely by my reckoning, as the show is supposed to cut out all the attempts to nostalgia grab people the longer it goes on.

And no, I've watched the Prequels; they are as bad as remembered and nothing will change this for me; they are boring, the acting is stiff, the effects aged poorly, and ideas are either incoherent or stretch out for too long. The difference is there was a creative spark and good ideas in it (there's a reason the Prequel games and the non-movie works were mostly good); you can tell that the person who made them liked the setting and understood the tone, if not able to make a good story or dialogue.

In the "Sequels" however, you have idiots wanting to ruin it and try to destroy its own legacy due to wanting to look smart and being a whiny asshole, or another person just aping others and making slapdash horseshit for the paycheck and toycuts. All under a joyless and drunken cunt who is unable to do anything but fetch coffee.

 

[Muttnik]

The problem with the ST is that they feel corporate and cold, a product of a megalomaniac company that think they can make billions off low-effort shit. The Prequels were like that but the potential was there. The seeds were planted to make better spinoffs and products. Plus the memes, oh god those glorious Palpatine memes.

I don't think the ST has anything novel or worth remembering other than "muh subverted expectations", awful Rose dialogue, or how Luke was royally buttfucked.