Dr. Rachel McKinnon / Dr. Veronica Ivy / Rhys McKinnon / Rachel Veronica McKinnon / Foxy Moxy / SportIsARight - failed out of a tenured job,man who competes in womens sports, gained like 100 lbs in 2022 (page 813), comically fell off bike before a race (page 830)

[Potatis Salad]

One of my most-hated Rhys arguments. He's always trying to gatekeep who is and is not permitted to comment on troon fuckery. Rhys, your attempts to dominate women's sporting events and to manipulate sporting policy are fucking newsworthy; people are allowed to be interested even if they weren't personally knocked off the podium by your ugly hulking pimply six-foot ass.

Also, :late: but I found an old Instagram account from that Foxy Moxy troon racer "Zero." He had another account with the handle speed_lumps which he deleted. Nothing super interesting here, just juvenile pics of his stuffed animals, him being a beginner at weightlifting, and a (genuinely) very cool custom bike frame. Weird that this dude went from beginner to winning a bunch of shit w/ Foxy Moxy to dropping off the face of the earth.

 

[Kosher Dill]

So which is it, are you the WORLD CHAMPION who deserves to be the face of athletics, or just someone racing in a sport no one's ever heard of?

 

[The Wokey Little Puppy]

Rhys, you are 100% correct: I had no idea there was such a thing as women's track sprint cycling. I had no idea there was a garlic festival in Gilroy, California, either. Now, I'm not saying that being a woman-hating cheat is as bad as being a mass murderer, but sometimes we only find out about things when some foul little sociopath uses those things as a platform to fuck other people over. And when foul little sociopaths pop up on our radar, we most certainly get to judge them.

 

[TheBlackVolga]

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, Rhys, you fat cheating troon.

 

[Positron]

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, Rhys, you fat cheating troon.

That's why sunlight -- truth -- is transphobic.

Just fucking leave already.

As if anyone cares what is or isn't "fascist" anymore.

The tweet Rhys replied to was indeed deleted, but you can easily guess what that person said.
Note Rhys's display of toxic masculinity ("I can lift heavier than you bro! I have over 200 confirmed kills too!") and the reply of that wild Endocrinology expert.

Cow pileup. Christa has been Noticing Patterns on Spinster.

In a nutshell, Spinster users discussed how Sweden women are paying the price for cultural enrichment. Which of course means real feminism, that serves to protect the rights of real women, is exactly the same as Nazism:

Look at all these white men talking. As if that's not enough, a wild chu-chu appears.

Women! If you don't enjoy getting raped by sand niggers, you are "radicalized into the alt-right"!

And how DARE you, women, see the common ground between groups with different interests? If you work with our enemies, you become our enemies too!

That dumb bitch Christa sees Wikipedia as a reliable source, because of course she does:

 

[Dial M for Misgender]

I like how Christa never actually addresses any of their points.

 

[heathercho]

I like how Christa never actually addresses any of their points.

I like that Rhys just makes shit up.

Imagine if we could merge Christa and Rhys? It'd be like a transgender John Bulla.

 

[Otterly]

Note the language.

Ifyou question immigration policy you are anti refugee. No - most people are able to make the distinction between the individual person and a wider policy. With TRAs it’s always directed as a personal attack. Same as being not keen on prostitution makes you ‘anti sex worker.’

Using language to focus an issue on the individual person heightens emotion and makes it personal.

 

[Ihavetinyweewee]

Not to derail the thread, but I wanted to pick the brains of more knowledgeable members.

Read an older NYT article, about the '4 myths of testosterone' which seemed to be full of pseudoscience and cherry picking.

In looking for criticism for the two authors, Rebecca Jordan Young and Katriba Karkazis, seem to run in these goofy circles as Rhyes.

I even noticed that Karkazis even was brought in to testify on Caster case, despite having no formal medical science degree(as a bioethicist).

Who are these women and why would they be platformed as some sort of experts?

 

[Otterly]

why would they be platformed as some sort of experts?

Because this is a movement that denies objective scrutiny, data and reality itself.

Myself and others have sperged on at length earlier in this thread about what lowering men’s testosterone does and does not do, if you need to be able to rebut any of this bollocks in real life. Ridicule should be the correct response but that seems to be out of vogue these days...

 

[Ihavetinyweewee]

Because this is a movement that denies objective scrutiny, data and reality itself.

Myself and others have sperged on at length earlier in this thread about what lowering men’s testosterone does and does not do, if you need to be able to rebut any of this bollocks in real life. Ridicule should be the correct response but that seems to be out of vogue these days...

Yeah, but why don't actual biologists or geneticists(female for that matter) counter these clowns?

Or are they too busy doing actual science and just don't seem to care?

I couldn't find either critcism or praise for either of them...

But, Karkazis seems to running around writing tons of opinion pieces with some clearky dubious statements....

 

[Positron]

Not to derail the thread, but I wanted to pick the brains of more knowledgeable members.

Read an older NYT article, about the '4 myths of testosterone' which seemed to be full of pseudoscience and cherry picking.

In looking for criticism for the two authors, Rebecca Jordan Young and Katriba Karkazis, seem to run in these goofy circles as Rhyes.

I even noticed that Karkazis even was brought in to testify on Caster case, despite having no formal medical science degree(as a bioethicist).

Who are these women and why would they be platformed as some sort of experts?

I have commented on this exact article. Short answer: neither Karkazis nor Young can tell Science from their toilet plunger.

And Stéphane Bermon, scientific and health director of IAAF, gave Karkazis the moniker "Testosterone Expert".

Yeah, but why don't actual biologists or geneticists (female for that matter) counter these clowns?

Or are they too busy doing actual science and just don't seem to care?

I'd imagine scientists simply consider it beneath themselves to comment on cultural studists, who, after all, churn out unbelievable crazy shit as part of their "jobs". Engaging with nutters would just give them undue exposure and legitimacy. If they are to do criticism they will do so indirectly, without mentioning their names.

 

[sperginity]

Yeah, but why don't actual biologists or geneticists(female for that matter) counter these clowns?

Or are they too busy doing actual science and just don't seem to care?

I couldn't find either critcism or praise for either of them...

But, Karkazis seems to running around writing tons of opinion pieces with some clearky dubious statements....

they don't want the entire humanities department of their universities to turn against them and make their lives hell. Evergreen state did that to two of their professors for much less. Plus, people with useful degrees tend to be doing useful work (like biology or medical research) and either don't want to sacrifice the good they are doing for this fight or don't know about it because they aren't immersed in crazy shit on the internet.

 

[Otterly]

Yeah, but actual biologists or geneticists(female for that matter) counter these clowns?

Both fields contain people who have no idea all this shit is happening and others who are aware of it but know they’d lose their jobs if they said anything. Most scientists work on soft money, and need to pull in serious cash each year to pay for staff overheads and materials (which can total hundreds of thousands of pounds a year easily.) most scientists are working within academia, pharma and allied, NHS and allied and semi academic places like non teaching research institutions. Most of these places are infested with Woke at the administrative level (not at the science level thank fuck.)

It’s easy to say speak up but in reality, at least in the UK, it’s a career terminating move just now. I’ve shot down a few Woke suggestions (with clear data and ‘the ethics committee/MRC/FDA/GMC will hammer you if you do this, so don’t ’ but I have to be very careful in how I do it. Luckily I don’t work in an area that would make me refer to gender services. I don’t think I could. I genuinely think this transing of kids is going to be a medical scandal unlike anything we’ve ever seen before.

But... I cannot be explicitly gender critical at work and I expect most people working in the NHS and academia are the same.

It’s been a huge eye opener for me, it’s made me reconsider my politics and my views on women’s rights (which i’d considered in the bag) and an awful lot of stuff. To be called a Nazi for adhering to ‘first do no harm’ is deeply upsetting.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Read an older NYT article, about the '4 myths of testosterone' which seemed to be full of pseudoscience and cherry picking.

In looking for criticism for the two authors, Rebecca Jordan Young and Katriba Karkazis, seem to run in these goofy circles as Rhyes.

I assume you're referring to this article:

Opinion | The Myth of Testosterone

It is not the “male sex hormone,” nor is it the key to athletic performance. Why do we insist otherwise?

www.nytimes.com

By all indications the authors themselves aren't academic nullities like Rhys. They have strong credentials, hold prestigious positions, and publish in top journals. The answer to why they've been platformed is more or less that they are the experts from the "correct" side of this issue.

Really, what they're saying in the article isn't even wrong per se. It's true that testosterone itself isn't the one magic switch for "male", and it's true that there isn't a direct mathematical relationship between T and athletic performance. It's even true that if science ever does come up with a perfect "gender test", it's not going to be as simple as checking a couple of hormone levels from a blood sample.

If you just look at testosterone levels, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between (say) a woman with AIS, a woman who just happens to be born with very high T levels which they process in the ordinary way, and someone like Caster Semenya who's pretty far over on the intersex spectrum. (Or for that matter, a trans woman with an unusual approach to hormone therapy)

The "approved" solution to this dilemma is to say "Well, this is pretty hard and we don't have a perfect test, so just let everyone in".
The practical solution, and the one that's been adopted by sporting bodies, is to say "The tests we have are imperfect but for now they seem to be filtering out most of the people who shouldn't be here without too many false positives, so let's go with it."

 

[Otterly]

I've learned from troon threads on KF that there's probably a huge hairball in Rhys's "vagina" too, if he's had the dick inversion.

Every time I hear someone say this I imagine a giant vag hacking up a hairball with that eeeeeaaaaacccchhhhhhhhthfffputsplat noise that cats make...

 

[OttoWest]

Really, what they're saying in the article isn't even wrong per se. It's true that testosterone itself isn't the one magic switch for "male", and it's true that there isn't a direct mathematical relationship between T and athletic performance.

As a layman without a hard science background, my question upon reading this is: then why is testosterone a banned substance for both men and women?

I get that is perhaps an oversimplification, but it’s seems odd to me that one the one hand you can ban T and on the other claim its effects are negligible. Not directed at you @Kosher Dill, just in general.

 

[SourDiesel]

Every time I hear someone say this I imagine a giant vag hacking up a hairball with that eeeeeaaaaacccchhhhhhhhthfffputsplat noise that cats make...

As disgusting as that sounds, being able hack up a hairball is still better than the reality in which there is no mechanism through which any of that horrifying shit can be expelled from the grotesque cavern. There it remains. To fester and mutate into even more horrifying shit.

 

[sperginity]

If you just look at testosterone levels, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between (say) a woman with AIS, a woman who just happens to be born with very high T levels which they process in the ordinary way, and someone like Caster Semenya who's pretty far over on the intersex spectrum. (Or for that matter, a trans woman with an unusual approach to hormone therapy)

A normal female with testosterone levels approaching male generally has some kind of adrenal tumor. High testosterone conditions like PCOS that occur in females are still a fraction of the normal range for males.
FTM transition doses try to mimic male testosterone levels (low end is around 270)


People with adrogen insensitivity can't reliably have their blood levels of testosterone compared to everyone else because their medical disorder affects their body's ability to make use of the circulating testosterone. there isn't a real way to test how much testosterone in the bloodstream is utilized. We only know they are aindrogen insensitive because of their genital configuration vs their chromosomes.

the issue is that testosterone levels matter the most during puberty, when most people are not being tested or at the olympics, and produce permanent changes to the skeleton during puberty (and therefore muscles and gait, size of heart/lungs). If a body goes through female puberty then doses high on testosterone (via a tumor or through use of anabolic steroids, doesn't matter which) they will never meet the athletic performance of someone who has longer femur/humerus, larger stature, and narrower hips/wider shoulders due to male puberty. The advantages that exist stack up over time depending on the years of exposure as well.

testosterone has always been the drug of choice for illegally enhancing athletic performance

 

[Otterly]

In a nutshell, It’s being male that is the advantage. T is a marker for being male, not the sole driver in itself. It’s disingenuous to take a male who has had his male physiology shaped by his male genetics his whole life which have sculpted his body structure into a man’s, then lower his T.

It’s a bit like saying that scaffolding is what makes a building, and now the scaffolding is gone it’s not a building any more. The scaffolding was there and it built the building. Taking it away after the building is built does nothing to alter the building,l.

It’s also worth saying that even males with TOTAL androgen insensitivity, who’ve never been able to use a single molecule of T are still closer to expected male height than female (reference for this a while back in one of my posts) so there are other bio factors at play.

It’s being male that’s the advantage. Lowering testosterone in an adult does diddly squat to remove male advantage. Adding it in certainly boosts performance but again it’s a secondary marker for SEX.

It’s sex that’s the divider. No one can change sex. The official bodies should stop fucking around with T levels as a denoted of sex and just use sex itself (and T levels within each sex.)