Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Yeah, as much as we detest TLJ in here, I won't deny it's a visually satisfying movie.

By the way, what's our contingency plan in case IX BTFOs all detractors by being one of the best movies ever made, even succeeding in redeeming nu-SW?
Do we just follow Rich "Sex Pervert" Evans' example?
View attachment 602178

If, and it's a big IF, they manage to make a movie so good that it not only is a lot of fun in itself but also somehow manages to retroactively salvage TFA and TLJ without retconning it to shit, then I will applaud them. If the movie is fine on its own, sure, I'll give them that, too, but in order to win me back, they'll have to go above and beyond the call of duty.

The thing is: When all I had seen was TFA, that movie was ok with me. But after TLJ's "subversions", nothing TFA set off went anywhere, and thus TLJ managed to ruin TFA. Nothing in TFA really matters and with the few new things not going anywhere, all the weaknesses of being an ANH clone come to light more clearly than ever before.
If IX, for some reason, turns out to be a decent movie of itself, that's nice.
If it plays off TFA in a way that both movies have a reason to co-exist (outside of introducing the characters), that's even better.
However the movie has to do things that I don't even know would be possible in order to redeem both TFA and TLJ - and anything other than redeeming these turds will not be enough, tbh. Signs don't look good that this will turn into a coherent trilogy and I seriously doubt that can be fixed with another movie, since the failure lies with the shortcomings of the 2nd movie.

With the most recent rumors, I doubt anyone knows what the fuck they are doing atm at Lucas Films. It seems their idea to save their trilogy is to piss on even more stuff from the good, old times. I'm taking these rumors with a grain of salt, cause they are waaaay too outlandish. But I also hope that they turn out to be true, cause I want to see the dumpster fire of the ST rise to the heavens and smoke out these asshats in Hollywood that think too highly of themselves while spitting on the fans that lifted them to their lofty heights.

 

[mrdk_04]

If, and it's a big IF, they manage to make a movie so good that it not only is a lot of fun in itself but also somehow manages to retroactively salvage TFA and TLJ without retconning it to shit, then I will applaud them. If the movie is fine on its own, sure, I'll give them that, too, but in order to win me back, they'll have to go above and beyond the call of duty.

The thing is: When all I had seen was TFA, that movie was ok with me. But after TLJ's "subversions", nothing TFA set off went anywhere, and thus TLJ managed to ruin TFA. Nothing in TFA really matters and with the few new things not going anywhere, all the weaknesses of being an ANH clone come to light more clearly than ever before.
If IX, for some reason, turns out to be a decent movie of itself, that's nice.
If it plays off TFA in a way that both movies have a reason to co-exist (outside of introducing the characters), that's even better.
However the movie has to do things that I don't even know would be possible in order to redeem both TFA and TLJ - and anything other than redeeming these turds will not be enough, tbh. Signs don't look good that this will turn into a coherent trilogy and I seriously doubt that can be fixed with another movie, since the failure lies with the shortcomings of the 2nd movie.

With the most recent rumors, I doubt anyone knows what the fuck they are doing atm at Lucas Films. It seems their idea to save their trilogy is to piss on even more stuff from the good, old times. I'm taking these rumors with a grain of salt, cause they are waaaay too outlandish. But I also hope that they turn out to be true, cause I want to see the dumpster fire of the ST rise to the heavens and smoke out these asshats in Hollywood that think too highly of themselves while spitting on the fans that lifted them to their lofty heights.

Answer the question, please.
What do we do should IX redeem Lucasfilm's every sin?
I'd just like to see our bases covered, should we have to eat our own words.

We can get back to the circlejerk at any time. It's not like I (or the regulars of this thread) disagree on SW being FUBAR.

 

[Flexo]

Had Starkiller Base been an actual threat for longer and the trilogy was about finding out its weakness, that would have been a neat thing to do for a movie or two.

Exactly. It would feel weird at first but you quickly realize how smooth it would be.

Movie 1: Set up the discovery of the First Order and have the heroes discover Starkiller is under construction.
Movie 2: Race between the heroes & villains to get Starkiller online/prevent. End with it powering up and firing.
Movie 3: Struggle to find out how to beat it and the effort to do so.

There you go. Ready made, crowd-pleasing films that have plenty of space to explore new characters and go in new directions.

By the way, what's our contingency plan in case IX BTFOs all detractors by being one of the best movies ever made, even succeeding in redeeming nu-SW?

Dead serious, I will make a bet with you right now this won't happen. Say... $5 to the farms? We'll even pick 3 people from this thread to be our aribitors/judges on who wins the bet. Why? Because...

If, and it's a big IF, they manage to make a movie so good that it not only is a lot of fun in itself but also somehow manages to retroactively salvage TFA and TLJ without retconning it to shit, then I will applaud them. If the movie is fine on its own, sure, I'll give them that, too, but in order to win me back, they'll have to go above and beyond the call of duty.

As I said waaaaaaayyyy back earlier in this thread (as some may remember, I had an autistic subroutine take over me for a day), they HAD the opportunity to salvage TFA/TLJ: The new animated series. Make it about Luke training his pupils, set it in the right time periods and you could 100% make TLJ and TFA amazing films retroactively in a manner similar to what the clone wars (either one) did for the prequels.

BUT. THEY. DIDN'T.

Why? Because to do that they would first have to admit that a mistake was made and then get to work fixing it.

And THAT is why not only IX is going to fail, but I'll wager a large amount of money it's going to be awful. Because to even get close to such a goal, Lucasfilm would first have to start laying the groundwork elsewhere to pay everything off. They haven't even begun to do that and still won't admit they even need to do that.

EDIT:

Answer the question, please.
What do we do should IX redeem Lucasfilm's every sin?
I'd just like to see our bases covered, should we have to eat our own words.

We can get back to the circlejerk at any time. It's not like I (or the regulars of this thread) disagree on SW being FUBAR.

Ok. So like I said, I'll pay to the farms and even make a big apology post admitting I was wrong. I'll even work on writing a book using IX as an example on how you could use the writing to recover a story because it would be THAT good. Not joking, it would be textbook worthy.

 

[Creep3r]

Da faq? Citation plz. Oh I don't doubt you, I just HAVE to see this for myself. (And I thought Rei downloading force moves from Kylo was the height of lore lulz - at least Skippy the Jedi Droid was an intentional joke.)

I posted a video with a little rant a few pages back. If you want a link to the comic, let me know...

I'm taking these rumors with a grain of salt, cause they are waaaay too outlandish. But I also hope that they turn out to be true, cause I want to see the dumpster fire of the ST rise to the heavens and smoke out these asshats in Hollywood that think too highly of themselves while spitting on the fans that lifted them to their lofty heights.

Most of them are coming from Inverse.com and those fantards are usually accurate with their spoilers at least from personal experience I've had with them in regards to their RO and TLJ spoilers.

Edit: Forgot to add that TFA had a deleted scene which was recently "uncovered" on reddit, where we find out JJ was gonna remake the fight scene between Luke and Vader in ESB after Rey touched the lightsaber. All the more proof that the film was just a nostalgia grab. Luke looks like a fucking hobbit to boot.

Would be funny if this was a possible hint that Disney planned on remaking the OT if FOX didn't sell out. Imagine the shitstorm if that was actually something they were considering.

 

[Judge Holden]

Exactly. It would feel weird at first but you quickly realize how smooth it would be.

Movie 1: Set up the discovery of the First Order and have the heroes discover Starkiller is under construction.
Movie 2: Race between the heroes & villains to get Starkiller online/prevent. End with it powering up and firing.
Movie 3: Struggle to find out how to beat it and the effort to do so.

There you go. Ready made, crowd-pleasing films that have plenty of space to explore new characters and go in new directions.



Dead serious, I will make a bet with you right now this won't happen. Say... $5 to the farms? We'll even pick 3 people from this thread to be our aribitors/judges on who wins the bet. Why? Because...



As I said waaaaaaayyyy back earlier in this thread (as some may remember, I had an autistic subroutine take over me for a day), they HAD the opportunity to salvage TFA/TLJ: The new animated series. Make it about Luke training his pupils, set it in the right time periods and you could 100% make TLJ and TFA amazing films retroactively in a manner similar to what the clone wars (either one) did for the prequels.

BUT. THEY. DIDN'T.

Why? Because to do that they would first have to admit that a mistake was made and then get to work fixing it.

And THAT is why not only IX is going to fail, but I'll wager a large amount of money it's going to be awful. Because to even get close to such a goal, Lucasfilm would first have to start laying the groundwork elsewhere to pay everything off. They haven't even begun to do that and still won't admit they even need to do that.

EDIT:


Ok. So like I said, I'll pay to the farms and even make a big apology post admitting I was wrong. I'll even work on writing a book using IX as an example on how you could use the writing to recover a story because it would be THAT good. Not joking, it would be textbook worthy.

Speakin of which, I just thought of another way TFA could have been both improved and distinguished from ANH.

After the republic capital world (this time actually make it fucking coruscant and have some scenes there setting up how it has recovered and flourished since the OG empire) are destroyed by the Starkiller base and the fleet is being routed, Luke uses his projection ability to guide the protagonist group out from within and gives them obi-wan style advice in how to sabotage it for long enough to allow them and the surviving republic ships to escape, thus setting up the story arc of "get enough forces together to take out Starkiller Base before they fix it up and finish the job of wiping out whats left of the republic"

Hell you could even configure him into the final lightsaber duel where a heavily wounded Kylo Ren is completely steamrolling all three protagonists (Rey with her lightsaber, Finn with a blaster, and Poe trying to use his X wing to mow him down only for Ren to force-pull it to the ground in mid flyby) only to be force-pushed away by a projection of luke, which would establish
a) Kylo Ren is Darth Vader tier killing machine even when wounded
b) Luke has become crazy powerful and finding him will be the focus of the next movie
c) The protagonists have to improve a fucktunne if they want to stand a chance

 

[Zaryiu]

Speakin of which, I just thought of another way TFA could have been both improved and distinguished from ANH.

After the republic capital world (this time actually make it fucking coruscant and have some scenes there setting up how it has recovered and flourished since the OG empire) are destroyed by the Starkiller base and the fleet is being routed, Luke uses his projection ability to guide the protagonist group out from within and gives them obi-wan style advice in how to sabotage it for long enough to allow them and the surviving republic ships to escape, thus setting up the story arc of "get enough forces together to take out Starkiller Base before they fix it up and finish the job of wiping out whats left of the republic"

Hell you could even configure him into the final lightsaber duel where a heavily wounded Kylo Ren is completely steamrolling all three protagonists (Rey with her lightsaber, Finn with a blaster, and Poe trying to use his X wing to mow him down only for Ren to force-pull it to the ground in mid flyby) only to be force-pushed away by a projection of luke, which would establish
a) Kylo Ren is Darth Vader tier killing machine even when wounded
b) Luke has become crazy powerful and finding him will be the focus of the next movie
c) The protagonists have to improve a fucktunne if they want to stand a chance

Making it Coruscant means changing the "Camon", the New Republic was designed or ended up moving the Senate from planet to planet and I don't know if it's Cuck Windbag fault or someone else but to be frank nearly everything from the Woke Wars era needs to be be non-canon and started back from scratch or nearly so to have a even a change to redeem Star Wars

 

[Iceland Heavy]

Making it Coruscant means changing the "Camon", the New Republic was designed or ended up moving the Senate from planet to planet and I don't know if it's Cuck Windbag fault or someone else but to be frank nearly everything from the Woke Wars era needs to be be non-canon and started back from scratch or nearly so to have a even a change to redeem Star Wars

TFA's story already limited what the inter-trilogy years could look like but Wendig decided to limit it even further with how he wrote Aftermath. Even Bloodline which is considered to be one of the 'better' nu-EU works established that basically nothing of relevance happened in between the Empire shitting the bed in Aftermath and the sequels.

 

[Creep3r]

Found more info on the Padme stuff.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/star-wars-episode-ix-teases-return-padme/
Never used this site before but here's what it says:

The currently circulating report alleges that the upcoming release will see Kylo Ren witness his own grandmother’s funeral on Naboo, as well as the moment where Anakin chokes Natalie Portman’s character in Revenge of the Sith. How is this possible? Well, it’s said that Ben Solo will take advantage of “the world between worlds” previously seen in Star Wars Rebels. This mysterious realm consists of a collection of doors and pathways that connect moments in time and space, allowing Kylo to journey back into the past.

If true, it seems Padme might not actually appear alive in the film, but that JJ will recreate her death and funeral scenes from III, and Kylo will view these events in an attempt to bring her back, using the place I dreaded and suspected from the beginning would be in these films. Yes, that place... The "world between worlds" ie the space-time anus from Rebels. So time travel to undo all their shit decisions is becoming ever more likely.

Talk about asspull.

 

[Kiwi Lime Pie]

The thing is: When all I had seen was TFA, that movie was ok with me. But after TLJ's "subversions", nothing TFA set off went anywhere, and thus TLJ managed to ruin TFA. Nothing in TFA really matters and with the few new things not going anywhere, all the weaknesses of being an ANH clone come to light more clearly than ever before.

When I saw TFA, I found myself wondering if I had just watched ANH v 2.0. However, I didn't hate the movie as it did introduce some new characters and elements in a way that piqued my curiosity. in short, I felt maybe Disney decided to stick with a safe story to tell for part 1 and would move on to something different and bolder for part 2. We all know by now that nothing of the sort happened.

When TLJ ignored and dismissed many of the new items introduced in TFA to instead go off on its own :autism: tangent, I had feelings similar to those of @RomanesEuntDomus and wondered what possibly could come next that could salvage the trilogy as a whole. As I've mentioned in previous posts, the first two films felt as if they had no cohesion ... as if Rian Johnson treated TFA as if it didn't even exist and produced a film that had no connection to its predecessor.

The "world between worlds" ie the space-time anus from Rebels. So time travel to undo all their shit decisions is becoming ever more likely.

Time travel might work if used sparingly and in a way that didn't shit on important previously-established canon events. However, We're talking about Disney and Star Wars here, so I fear they will use time travel in a way that irreparably screws up the franchise. As this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see Kylo Ren use time travel to bring back some of the worst villains of all time while the Resistance does the same to bring past heroes into the future where both sides fight in some sort of ultimate battle that leaves the plot and time line in complete disarray regardless of which side wins.

By the way, what's our contingency plan in case IX BTFOs all detractors by being one of the best movies ever made, even succeeding in redeeming nu-SW?

This is a very big if, mind you. However, I'll try to play along. If for some reason Episode IX were to be so epic a film that I found myself ready to cheer and yell, "Encore!" at the screen, I would gladly post my reaction, thoughts, and sing its praises on here while remaining realistic in that Disney still released a trilogy that was two parts awful to one part good. Also, I'd want to see if Disney learned its lesson about what works and started to produce better SW content on a consistent basis moving forward, or if this was a one-time thing where they immediately backslide into producing garbage-tier content.

 

[Zaryiu]

I'll buy abs eat that hat if IX salvage the ST

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

You know, I had a very strange epithany concerning Woke Wars, something so weird and stupid, that I am completely dumbfounded that it isn't canon, but I guess Disney would stop it for obvious reasons:

What if Rey was actually the daughter of Leia and Luke? It would be totally up Kennedy's alley to piss on everything that fans love from SW and it would have actually made sense for Luke to be a hermit, ashamed of himself. And it would explain why Leia inexplicably starts to bond with Rey for no fucking reason.

Answer the question, please.
What do we do should IX redeem Lucasfilm's every sin?
I'd just like to see our bases covered, should we have to eat our own words.

We can get back to the circlejerk at any time. It's not like I (or the regulars of this thread) disagree on SW being FUBAR.

Well, If IX does the impossible and somehow ties up everything into a cohesive story without retconning TFA or TLJ, then I will give credit where credit is due. I won't shit on it out of habit, since all I ever wanted was a non-shitty sequel trilogy.
However even in such an event, I'll still forever mock Ruin Johnson for being such a shitty moviemaker that it even became a necessity to salvage this trilogy.

Hell you could even configure him into the final lightsaber duel where a heavily wounded Kylo Ren is completely steamrolling all three protagonists (Rey with her lightsaber, Finn with a blaster, and Poe trying to use his X wing to mow him down only for Ren to force-pull it to the ground in mid flyby) only to be force-pushed away by a projection of luke, which would establish
a) Kylo Ren is Darth Vader tier killing machine even when wounded
b) Luke has become crazy powerful and finding him will be the focus of the next movie
c) The protagonists have to improve a fucktunne if they want to stand a chance

I like that idea, particularly the "puling down an X-Wing in mid-flight" seems amazing... but there's one flaw:
This would mean that the bad guys triumph and we can't have that. It would literally be Disney supporting the Alt Right or whatever these snowflake-fans believe.

 

[CWCissey]

What if Rey was actually the daughter of Leia and Luke? It would be totally up Kennedy's alley to piss on everything that fans love from SW and it would have actually made sense for Luke to be a hermit, ashamed of himself. And it would explain why Leia inexplicably starts to bond with Rey for no fucking reason.

FOUL.

Also that would make no sense regarding why Han bonds with her a lot in TFA either.

Rey should have just been one of Luke's former students. Even better, have her be the reason why the new Jedi Academy was destroyed rather than Kylo.

 

[Flexo]

Time travel might work if used sparingly and in a way that didn't shit on important previously-established canon events. However, We're talking about Disney and Star Wars here, so I fear they will use time travel in a way that irreparably screws up the franchise. As this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see Kylo Ren use time travel to bring back some of the worst villains of all time while the Resistance does the same to bring past heroes into the future where both sides fight in some sort of ultimate battle that leaves the plot and time line in complete disarray regardless of which side wins.

*shudder* My buddy was talking about some autistic fanfic that could bridge the gap between nu and old EU like Star Trek '09 did with Trek canon. He pointed out that the only really acceptable way for time travel to work (which he would use in his story about the last jedi) would be using the Force to send a mind back like XMen days of future past or Quantum Leap. That Space Anus is bullshit.

What if Rey was actually the daughter of Leia and Luke? It would be totally up Kennedy's alley to piss on everything that fans love from SW and it would have actually made sense for Luke to be a hermit, ashamed of himself. And it would explain why Leia inexplicably starts to bond with Rey for no fucking reason.

In his review of Return of the Jedi SFDebris pointed out why Lucas' retcon of the two being siblings never really worked. Had that retcon never happened, there are some things that would make more sense in TFA like Luke & Leia having an affair to make Rei, leading to the breakdown of the trio (or even have Rei be the daughter of the lost Skywalker).

Wait... they're going to do it, aren't they? Rather than remake the old trilogy, Disney is just going to do a "super special awesome" edition of it aren't they? And take the opportunity to retcon everything they want...

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

FOUL.

Also that would make no sense regarding why Han bonds with her a lot in TFA either.

Rey should have just been one of Luke's former students. Even better, have her be the reason why the new Jedi Academy was destroyed rather than Kylo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's what should have happened, I'm just amazed it's not canon since it would throw even more mud on the old characters. And it would at least have given Luke a somewhat understandable reason to sod off to live on Frog-Nun Island.
Rey should have tied back to the Jedi one way or the other.
I mean, I can see the criticism with her being the daughter of a big Jedi from the OT like Luke or Obi Wan, though there should be some link to the Jedi, still, just to explain why she's so good at this stuff.

I think it's kind of funny, the biggest accusation against people who dislike TLJ is, that they want shitty fanfiction-tier "Rey is Lukes daughter" to be canon, though most people agree that making Rey the daughter of literal nobodies is not a big deal and in fact a neat idea.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

One of the main reasons why TLJ felt so lackluster was cause there was way less at stake.
TFA has SB blow up an entire Star System. TLJ has... basically a super lame and insanely downgraded version of Battlestar Galactica running from the Cylons without any of the redeeming qualitites of BSG.

You mean a decent first season?

 

[Flexo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's what should have happened, I'm just amazed it's not canon since it would throw even more mud on the old characters. And it would at least have given Luke a somewhat understandable reason to sod off to live on Frog-Nun Island.
Rey should have tied back to the Jedi one way or the other.
I mean, I can see the criticism with her being the daughter of a big Jedi from the OT like Luke or Obi Wan, though there should be some link to the Jedi, still, just to explain why she's so good at this stuff.

I think it's kind of funny, the biggest accusation against people who dislike TLJ is, that they want shitty fanfiction-tier "Rey is Lukes daughter" to be canon, though most people agree that making Rey the daughter of literal nobodies is not a big deal and in fact a neat idea.

You're right! In fact, given her forehead I think we all know who Rei's father is:

 

[BScCollateral]

...though most people agree that making Rey the daughter of literal nobodies is not a big deal and in fact a neat idea.

It's sort of a neat idea. The obvious problem is that her parents are nobody to the audience, but not to Rei.

She's not going to say, "There's no action figures of my parents? To hell with them."

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

You're right! In fact, given her forehead I think we all know who Rei's father is:

He was also one of the only Jedis ever officially permitted to get married and have children, IIRC. Something his species having endemic fertility issues.

edit: Shit like this will never not make me laugh. His Wookieepedia entry. In Disney Canon there's NOTHING about him being married, never mind:

Assigned the Jedi Watchman of the Cerean sector, Mundi was granted a rare exception to the Jedi Order's ban on marriage due to his species' low birth rate and had a polygamous family of five wives and seven children, although he tried to avoid developing emotional attachments to them.

being polygamous now. That's all Legends now. I guess he technically might still have gotten married, but there's nothing in canon saying he did. And Mundi being kind of stickler for rules I can't imagine he'd do something like this without approval.

 

[Antipathy]

He was also one of the only Jedis ever officially permitted to get married and have children, IIRC. Something his species having endemic fertility issues.

Rey is the granddaughter of Ki Adi Mundi?

That would explain how she speaks Wookie.

My god, it's all making sense now!

 

[Creep3r]

I'm still going with the dumb idea that Kennedy and JJ intended Rey to be the Force incarnate (hence the force is female shit), but all this talk of Leia cheating on Han now makes me suspect that a plot line involving Rey being a fatherless birth (much like Anakin) born to Leia is now a very real possibility if not for the fact that spoilers, books, comics and those scenes in TFA and TLJ seem to imply that Rey's parents were nobodies and possibly drunks that she may or may have not killed depending on what you've heard. Would be a better reason for Han and Leia breaking up than the official one ("Oh, no they just drifted apart! How sad!").