UN US withdraws from intermediate range nuke treaty - Which will be released first, Fallout 76 or Fallout IRL?

Paging Dr. Strangelove.

Trump says US will withdraw from nuclear arms treaty with Russia

• President says: ‘We are going to terminate the agreement’
• John Bolton had been pushing for withdrawal from INF treaty

Donald Trump in Nevada Saturday. Photograph: Carolyn Kaster/AP

Donald Trump said on Saturday the US will “terminate” a nuclear arms treaty with Russia.

The Guardian reported on Friday that Trump’s third national security adviser, John Bolton, was pushing for a US withdrawal from the 1987 intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty (INF), which the US says Russia has been violating with the development of a new cruise missile.

Speaking to reporters in Nevada after a campaign rally on Saturday, Trump said: “Russia has violated the agreement. They’ve been violating it for many years and I don’t know why President Obama didn’t negotiate or pull out.

“We’re not going to let them violate a nuclear agreement and do weapons and we’re not allowed to. We’re the ones that have stayed in the agreement and we’ve honoured the agreement but Russia has not unfortunately honoured the agreement so we’re going to terminate the agreement, we’re going to pull out.”

Such a move would be a sharp break from US arms control policy. Former US officials told the Guardian this week Bolton was blocking talks on extending another treaty with Russia, New Start, which was signed in 2010 and is due to expire in 2021.

Asked on Saturday to clarify, the president said the US will “have to develop those weapons”. He also drew in China.

“Unless Russia comes to us and China comes to us and they all come to us and they say, ‘Let’s all of us get smart and let’s none of us develop those weapons,’” he said, “but if Russia’s doing it and if China’s doing it and we’re adhering to the agreement, that’s unacceptable. So we have a tremendous amount of money to play with with our military.”

He added: “Russia has not adhered to the agreement, so we are going to terminate the agreement and we are going to develop the weapons. If we get smart and if others get smart, and say ‘Let’s not develop these horrible nuclear weapons,’ I would be extremely happy with that.

“But as long as somebody’s violating that agreement then we’re not going to be the only ones to adhere to it.”

Start digging that fallout shelter, boys.

 

[Poiseon]

The reason why nobody else had "peace" talks with them is because they're not serious about peace.

Are you saying Trump is the only President since the 1950s that cares about peace? No one else bothered because they didn't care about peace? That means Trump does. Glad to see more MAGA people here :3

 

[Wallace]

North Korea would have agreed to talk at any fucking time. The reason why nobody else had "peace" talks with them is because they're not serious about peace. Basically Trump went and humiliated himself in front the entire world and announced a totally productive meeting where Kim lied to him to his face and Trump believed him, because Trump is a moron.

Speaking of diplomacy...

NK has always been a paper tiger at best. Their modus operandi has been to get into some kind of talks with the US in order to discourage China from simply eating them. I would hardly call this a diplomatic victory for the US.

 

[CWCissey]

I don't want to set the world on fire.


I just want to start a flame in your heart.

 

[TaterBot]

The Russians don't live up to the terms of the "agreement", so why should the US be the only ones shackled by it? If they have weapons and we have none, they'll use them or we'll have to kneel like Europe does.

 

[Poiseon]

Speaking of diplomacy...

NK has always been a paper tiger at best. Their modus operandi has been to get into some kind of talks with the US in order to discourage China from simply eating them. I would hardly call this a diplomatic victory for the US.

Any time where a pointless war is avoided is a victory. Though, a lot of people would rather have a war with North Korea than give the President credit for literally anything.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...e-north-korea-because-trump-would-take-credit

 

[Wallace]

Any time where a pointless war is avoided is a victory. Though, a lot of people would rather have a war with North Korea than give the President credit for literally anything.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...e-north-korea-because-trump-would-take-credit

Sorry, but no. NK is just not a credible threat to anyone. China, Japan, or SK would crush them with ease. Everything they do is posturing, plain and simple.

 

[Poiseon]

Sorry, but no. NK is just not a credible threat to anyone. China, Japan, or SK would crush them with ease. Everything they do is posturing, plain and simple.

No threat at all? With nukes? Bullshit. Your hate boner is strong, Mona Lisa Padawan.

 

[SuperRusk1Bot]

I don't want to set the world on fire.


I just want to start a flame in your heart.

You can definitely start a flame in my heart <3

 

[Poiseon]

Sorry, but no. NK is just not a credible threat to anyone. China, Japan, or SK would crush them with ease. Everything they do is posturing, plain and simple.

Also, regardless of threat level, how is that not a successful act of diplomacy? Where's the 'diplomatic' error here?

 

[SuperRusk1Bot]

Sorry, but no. NK is just not a credible threat to anyone. China, Japan, or SK would crush them with ease. Everything they do is posturing, plain and simple.

Anyone with nukes is a credible threat to any country out there.

 

[Ahffline]

Given NK's track record, I'm waiting for confirmation that Kim Jong-Un has actually dismantled anything before breaking out the bubbly. Words are cheap. Smiles are even cheaper.

 

[Wallace]

No threat at all? With nukes? Bullshit. Your hate boner is strong, Mona Lisa Padawan.

Nuclear warheads, yes. A reliable missile that presents a credible threat to the US? Very unlikely.

 

[Pozzingmyfilthyneghole]

To quote Morrissey: Come Armageddon, come nuclear war.

 

[Poiseon]

Given NK's track record, I'm waiting for confirmation that Kim Jong-Un has actually dismantled anything before breaking out the bubbly. Words are cheap. Smiles are even cheaper.

True, visual confirmation is the next step. The main point is that the process has started. North Korea may very well open up and stop being the hermit kingdom. Maybe their people will stop starving after that.

 

[Poiseon]

Nuclear warheads, yes. A reliable missile that presents a credible threat to the US? Very unlikely.

Again, where is the diplomatic error? Even without missiles, they can detonate those damns things without missiles. Sneak them onto US soil, sell or just fucking give them to terrorists, etc.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

No threat at all? With nukes? Bullshit. Your hate boner is strong, Mona Lisa Padawan.

Just because you can make a bomb doesn't mean you can deliver it.

Their technology isn't advanced enough to put weapons onto rockets. Until they develop a miniaturized boosted fission device they are stuck with Fat Man type nukes that aren't suitable for any delivery system they own.

 

[Poiseon]

Just because you can make a bomb doesn't mean you can deliver it.

Their technology isn't advanced enough to put weapons onto rockets. Until they develop a miniaturized boosted fission device they are stuck with Fat Man type nukes that aren't suitable for any delivery system they own.

Give. Them. To. Terrorists. Transfer them over the border to South Korea and detonate. We've had nukes, planes and satellite tracking for weapons so long it seems people think you actually Need those things to kill people.
And no threat? Really? The American who was beaten into a fucking coma over there is fucking nothing right? Can they wipe the America off the face of the earth? No. But that doesn't mean they aren't a fucking threat.

 

[Wallace]

Again, where is the diplomatic error? Even without missiles, they can detonate those damns things without missiles. Sneak them onto US soil, sell or just fucking give them to terrorists, etc.

Diplomacy isn't going to stop a suitcase nuke. By agreeing to meet with NK, essentially without conditions, the president has handed them two of their major objectives, number one, de facto recognition as a nuclear weapons state. Kim Jong Un is having summits with everybody. And, number two, the sanctions pressure is off. This summit has given the Chinese an alibi to back off on their economic pressure, and they're 90 percent of North Korea's trade. I'll call it a victory for Trump's diplomacy when I see clear and convincing evidence of NK's denuclearization. A promise from Kim Jong Un isn't worth shit.

 

[Norvic]

True, visual confirmation is the next step. The main point is that the process has started. North Korea may very well open up and stop being the hermit kingdom. Maybe their people will stop starving after that.

How do you imagine that's going to work? As soon as everyone in NK becomes fully cognisant of just exactly what their country's relationship to the rest of the world is, every peasant and private soldier will be lining up to stick a pitchfork in the abdomen of the Kim dynasty and their cronies. There's no perestroika that's going to paper over 70 (Juche) years of propaganda.

You're asking everyone at the negotiating table to politely sign their own death warrants, you really ought not to be surprised when they aren't terribly keen on doing it.

 

[Poiseon]

How do you imagine that's going to work? As soon as everyone in NK becomes fully cognisant of just exactly what their country's relationship to the rest of the world is, every peasant and private soldier will be lining up to stick a pitchfork in the abdomen of the Kim dynasty and their cronies. There's no perestroika that's going to paper over 70 (Juche) years of propaganda.

You're asking everyone at the negotiating table to politely sign their own death warrants, you really ought not to be surprised when they aren't terribly keen on doing it.

How? I gave an example of a diplomatic summit where The President Who Truly Cares About Peace started the process. Going back to that link, would you really rather us just fucking invade them? Just send the Sixth Fleet in and start dropping bombs?