Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

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You know, after giving it some thought and on the risk of being stoned, let me say one thing: Making a slightly comedic Thundercats approach could be fun.

Hear me out: I myself believe we need more action cartoons in the mix again and Thundercats could be an awesome action show. However, if Cartoon Network decided to appeal to both action and comedy fans, I think that would be cool. They even could do the ten minute format to their avantage. In fact, if they have other properties by Rankin Bass, why not make a Rankin Bass themed show with one segment being thundercats, the other one Silverhawk and then combine funny with some sort of adventure cliffhanger ending each segment.

The problem is simply that people have over time lost all their good will with CN and that the new art style looks like crap. There is probably a way to make the 80s art style look more wacky without ending up like a TTGo clone, but they didn't. Honestly, I would even say the current product looks worse than TTGo's artstyle or the one of OK KO.

I am not a big defender of either show, but at least TTGo's artstyle chibifies the characters in a way they are still recognizable and appealing to a younger audience. Even the characters of OK KO are designed well enough that they may appeal to kids as toys. The TC reboot however goes so far out its way, not only are the characters basically unrecognizable if you removed the color (I stumbled on twitter about a sketch of Cheetara in black and white that has her wack her stick and I thought it was a David Bowie inspired goblin character from a fantasy rpg) they are ugly as fuck. Which little kid would want to play with a Lion-O figur, seeing how he looks in the trailer?

And that is just the art. The other problem is that with PPG, TTGo, Ben10 and other "wacky" reboots they did, CN has just become tiresome. Nickelodeon has proven more "original" art wise with Loud House and that show just emulates a newspaper comic style and has worse backstage drama behind it than anything the people involved in the TC comedy have.

Add to all of that the fact Victor Courtright looks like every stereotypical 4chan accusation about soyboys in animation plus the general "comedic quality" of other CN shows based on previous franchises and you have a clusterfuck.

Bottom line, the problem isn't even what TC Roar is going to be, it is what people associate with it.
 
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UglyOldJafar said:
You know, after giving it some thought and on the risk of being stoned, let me say one thing: Making a slightly comedic Thundercats approach could be fun.
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And it could've been had it been done the way you suggested below.

Hear me out: I myself believe we need more action cartoons in the mix again and Thundercats could be an awesome action show. However, if Cartoon Network decided to appeal to both action and comedy fans, I think that would be cool. They even could do the ten minute format to their advantage.
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In that respect, I wouldn't have mind had it been a bit clever in it's premise with little winks or nobs to just how silly the original was since it wasn't as deep or serious as one expected. I kinda suggested elsewhere that maybe a continual bit in this could have Lion-O change shape as he used the Sword of Omens in the show. Maybe turn him into a manly beast of nature, with a design far different from the usual look, but this appearance is only temporary as he'd go back to becoming this wimpy looking cub after defeating the enemy. I like the idea of Lion-O being this runty kind of guy who everyone craps on until he finally uses the sword.

In fact, if they have other properties by Rankin Bass, why not make a Rankin Bass themed show with one segment being thundercats, the other one Silverhawk and then combine funny with some sort of adventure cliffhanger ending each segment.
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Which wouldn't have been a bad idea, really. The show could've been a little ambitious with it's serialized approach while sticking to this humor route all along.

The problem is simply that people have over time lost all their good will with CN and that the new art style looks like crap. There is probably a way to make the 80s art style look more wacky without ending up like a TTGo clone, but they didn't. Honestly, I would even say the current product looks worse than TTGo's artstyle or the one of OK KO.
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It all looks the same to me.

And that is just the art. The other problem is that with PPG, TTGo, Ben10 and other "wacky" reboots they did, CN has just become tiresome. Nickelodeon has proven more "original" art wise with Loud House and that show just emulates a newspaper comic style and has worse backstage drama behind it than anything the people involved in the TC comedy have.

Add to all of that the fact Victor Courtright looks like every stereotypical 4chan accusation about soyboys in animation and you have a clusterfuck.

Bottom line, the problem isn't even what TC Roar is going to be, it is what people associate with it.
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Well hopefully something obviously comes out about it and we'll feel some vindication that we've known it all along.
 
Munchingonfish said:
I don't think there would be much of a problem if these comedy reboots were just a series of 2-minute shorts. The problem is that these are supposed to be as valid interpretations of those characters as what came before. Worse off, because they're cheap as shit to make they easily outlive their originals even if the reboots were never as popular.
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I find myself currently somehow reminded of Batman: Brave and the Bold.
Which actually was a great show with a more comedic style compared to other Dc Hero shows and Batman, that still managed to combine a sillier asthetic (60s Batman) with a nice combination of both humor and action. So as far as I am concerned, something could also be done for other cartoons like that and Thundercats could lend itself to it. Would such a show be as popular as the original incarnation. Probably not. But it would still be unique and yet comparable enough to the previous incarnation, that it may find its fans for itself while also being acknowledged in terms of quality by fans of the original.
 
So famous animation creators and some less famous TV directors are having a voice in Thundercats Roar topic and while I agree to some arguments (like Lauren Faust one how action cartoons can be just not profitable)... I see more complaining about complaints that actual complaints. It's not the first time cartoon reboot got received poorly in the internet, yet it's first time most of industry reacted. That show doesn't look good yet every more important animator is saying "it's amazing". Same with serious youtubers and other "stars". Also, if you like the orginal you have bad taste because 80s cartoons are now a devil. And you can point out a similatity in modern cartoons style because it's bad argument.
Once again, I understand cartoons are expensive to make and style is sometimes dictated. I understand more complicated art styles are more expensive. I also understand that animators have to do shows they don't visually like to make for living (I'm one of them). And that Toon Boom software dictates some rules.
But people CAN complain about another Cartoon Network comedy roundy style reboot.
I really haven't seen any "death threats" and other things people claim this backlash is. Some satire pictures and maybe too emotional complaints, thats all.
Like I said, instead of 90s kids we now have people saying you have to be blinded by nostalgia to dislike reboot and BTW your childhood sucked.
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UglyOldJafar said:
I find myself currently somehow reminded of Batman: Brave and the Bold.
Which actually was a great show with a more comedic style compared to other Dc Hero shows and Batman, that still managed to combine a sillier asthetic (60s Batman) with a nice combination of both humor and action. So as far as I am concerned, something could also be done for other cartoons like that and Thundercats could lend itself to it. Would such a show be as popular as the original incarnation. Probably not. But it would still be unique and yet comparable enough to the previous incarnation, that it may find its fans for itself while also being acknowledged in terms of quality by fans of the original.
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And honestly I wouldn't mind that at all. I like the idea that you know what this is and were they're going with it, and it's OK.

Thinking back to nude Cheetara a few posts ago, one of those things about that first episode was how all of them were naked (except Jaga) and get their outfits/gear eventually from him. Somehow in the back of my mind, I would've loved to have had a bit play out of one of them going "Why weren't we given these things earlier?", with Jaga given some sly comment of wanting to see how long they were willing to stay naked for, or that it hadn't came to him to give them clothes at all until them, or maybe gauging their innocence. Just something to stick in there as a nice "wink-wink" we all probably expected.

ZehnBoat said:
at that point you might as well just make it space ace
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True, and that one did it far better (if only for being a video game). I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of something like Ultraman and it's a temporary powerup, but then a lot of anime and tokusatsu have done this a lot.
 
Marsaudiac said:
What happened to that? I joined after it shut down and I'm only mildly familiar with Enter but I know enough to know he's a massive sperglord.
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It got too spergy for its own good and was nuked from the orbit. Which si for the better. The only time someone should sperg as much about Mr Enter as was then should be if Enter finally snapped and went Santa Fe on Cartoon Network.
 
IdaRita said:
So famous animation creators and some less famous TV directors are having a voice in Thundercats Roar topic and while I agree to some arguments (like Lauren Faust one how action cartoons can be just not profitable)... I see more complaining about complaints that actual complaints. It's not the first time cartoon reboot got received poorly in the internet, yet it's first time most of industry reacted. That show doesn't look good yet every more important animator is saying "it's amazing". Same with serious youtubers and other "stars". Also, if you like the orginal you have bad taste because 80s cartoons are now a devil. And you can point out a similatity in modern cartoons style because it's bad argument.
Once again, I understand cartoons are expensive to make and style is sometimes dictated. I understand more complicated art styles are more expensive. I also understand that animators have to do shows they don't visually like to make for living (I'm one of them). And that Toon Boom software dictates some rules.
But people CAN complain about another Cartoon Network comedy roundy style reboot.
I really haven't seen any "death threats" and other things people claim this backlash is. Some satire pictures and maybe too emotional complaints, thats all.
Like I said, instead of 90s kids we now have people saying you have to be blinded by nostalgia to dislike reboot and BTW your childhood sucked.
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In the new pizza party podcast that was live on twitch an hour ago. Steveraybro made the same comment on how "hating the reboot makes you evil and 80s cartoons sucks" argument and got triggered in the live chat when someone say they don't like it, and end the argument with a death threat and blocked.
 
goma said:
Thinking about potentially having to work with these people is legitimately depressing.
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It's what you get when you have to be around self-entitled manchildren getting paid all day to draw literal scribbles or farm said scribbles out to Asia or Canada.

But seriously, while they aren't wrong about the majority of 80s cartoons looking and moving like ass. Doesn't mean I can't hate this thing for also looking and moving like ass.
 
Jewelsmakerguy said:
It's what you get when you have to be around self-entitled manchildren getting paid all day to draw literal scribbles or farm said scribbles out to Asia or Canada.

But seriously, while they aren't wrong about the majority of 80s cartoons looking and moving like ass. Doesn't mean I can't hate this thing for also looking and moving like ass.
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Even then, I watched some clips of Thundercats again. That show was still steps ahead animation wise than lets say He-Man when it came to drawing.
Most of these animators nowadays shall just shut up, when in reality they are just lazy storyboarders who will never leave their breeding ground of California, while some poor idiot in South Korea has to animate the stuff for less than they have to pay for their coffee
 
UglyOldJafar said:
Even then, I watched some clips of Thundercats again. That show was still steps ahead animation wise than lets say He-Man when it came to drawing.
Most of these animators nowadays shall just shut up, when in reality they are just lazy storyboarders who will never leave their breeding ground of California, while some poor idiot in South Korea has to animate the stuff for less than they have to pay for their coffee
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You also got to remember, He-Man was made by Filmation, who deserve almost every criticism they get for their animation.

And this gets me thinking, how would these self-entitled idiots fare in any 80s production? I bet they'd whine about having to draw more than just a simple blob.
 
Jewelsmakerguy said:
You also got to remember, He-Man was made by Filmation, who deserve almost every criticism they get for their animation.

And this gets me thinking, how would these self-entitled idiots fare in any 80s production? I bet they'd whine about having to draw more than just a simple blob.
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The thing is, Filmation had a policy of never outsourcing their animation, and that's largely why their cartoons looked the way they did. Doing the animation in America simply isn't profitable anymore; this is why cartoons have to get outsourced to South Korea.
 
Steamboat_Bill said:
The thing is, Filmation had a policy of never outsourcing their animation, and that's largely why their cartoons looked the way they did. Doing the animation in America simply isn't profitable anymore; this is why cartoons have to get outsourced to South Korea.
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But even when it was all being done in America, their cartoons felt like a step behind even compared to H-B's offerings (which were pretty limited in their own right).

Sourcing animation to Asia and Australia just ensured that they'd never get a chance to catch up.
 
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