Disaster Fire Truck Collides With Landing Jazz CRJ at LaGuardia (LGA)

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https://www.tiktok.com/@daviderea1/video/7620295368995065119

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1s16ns6/collision_between_plane_and_truck_laguardia/

God I’m sorry for posting a Tik Tok link. Will update when real news gets ahold of it.

So far what I know is that Jazz was cleared to land. At least two fire trucks asked tower for clearance to cross runway 4 at taxiway Delta, which was granted. Shortly thereafter the tower controller noticed his mistake and started screaming at the truck to stop, which failed to stop in time

IMG_6068 - Copy.JPEG
 
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Local archive

Ꮃꭺꮮꮮ Ꮪꭲꭱꭼꭼꭲ Ꮪꮋꭼꭼꭲ


@wallstreetsheet
1m
⛔️𝗕𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗞𝗜𝗡𝗚 𝗡𝗘𝗪𝗦 𝗟𝗜𝗩𝗘La Guardia Airport NYC #LGA IS CLOSED due to Jazz Airlines Flight 646 from Montreal- a CRJ 900 collided on Runway 4 landing hitting an Port Authority Emergency VehicleFDNY Battalion 49 noted all 60 passengers aboard survived with minimal or no injuries.Port Authority officers; reports up to 4 DOA). 2 pronounced dead at scene, at least 3 critically injured (Port Authority officers; reports up to 4 DOA).

Unconfirmed twitter chatter


ATC AUDIO (loud and possibly disturbing)

Best place for updates on air incidents I found is https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1s16x61/air_canada_crj_collided_with_a_fire_truck_at/

Usually not much bullshit which is amazing for a reddit sub.
 
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Based off of the audio I linked, the same controller was working ground and tower, two separate positions both physically located in the control tower. That is common late at night and/or in low workload situations, but is a contributing factor
 
Local archive
SnapTik-dot-Kim-5a4a74e694b1d0f74e03f9d461fefa41.mp4
Ꮃꭺꮮꮮ Ꮪꭲꭱꭼꭼꭲ Ꮪꮋꭼꭼꭲ


@wallstreetsheet
1m
⛔️𝗕𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗞𝗜𝗡𝗚 𝗡𝗘𝗪𝗦 𝗟𝗜𝗩𝗘La Guardia Airport NYC #LGA IS CLOSED due to Jazz Airlines Flight 646 from Montreal- a CRJ 900 collided on Runway 4 landing hitting an Port Authority Emergency VehicleFDNY Battalion 49 noted all 60 passengers aboard survived with minimal or no injuries.Port Authority officers; reports up to 4 DOA). 2 pronounced dead at scene, at least 3 critically injured (Port Authority officers; reports up to 4 DOA).

Unconfirmed twitter chatter


ATC AUDIO (loud and possibly disturbing)
rapidsave.com_aircraft_collides_with_a_fire_truck_on_runway_4-583c9tuqypqg1.mp4
Best place for updates on air incidents I found is https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1s16x61/air_canada_crj_collided_with_a_fire_truck_at/

Usually not much bullshit which is amazing for a reddit sub.

Thanks for the archive, I got off my ass and got on my computer so I can be a responsible kiwi
 
Could be possible then the controller was also a DEI hire?
It is possible, though perhaps DEI was more indirectly responsible than directly responsible. ATC was a major DEI focus for the federal government a very long time even predating usage of the word. I think deeper systemic issues with ATC are also at play.

LGA is pretty complex and in my years of operation there as a pilot I have seen above average competency in the controllers, including the DEI hires. (ironically I feel and felt the same way about DCA) Unlike other positions throughout the country, usually enroute posistions, due to the complexity they wash out or fire controllers that cant hack the job at LGA without missing a beat so the leftovers are usually high performers. Due to how expensive NYC is, how selective the facility is, how many trainee controllers are unsutiable DEI hires, how hard you have to work, and the staffing shortages at LGA, nobody can or wants to work there except a diehard cohort of guys. (and a gal who always says goodbye with a "good one" at the end of her transmissions) Buddy who fucked up and killed both pilots by clearing the trucks across was almost certainly pulling 12 hour shifts six days a week due to mandatory overtime. He even caught his mistake, but fire trucks and airport vehicles seem to be staffed by morons on the radio every time I hear them talk, so they were unable to puzzle out the supreme mystery of who the controller might be screaming 'STOP' at.

Controllers are badly overworked due to a severe nationwide shortage of them, they issue thousands of clearances a day, and usually they are the only high frequency single point of failure in the system. Even highly trained humans are error prone and almost always the weakest link in the system, which is why there are two pilots. There's also two engines, two sets of cockpit instruments, three sets of hydraulic systems, four generators on the plane etc. But there's only one controller, who has never fucked up like this, who fucked up for the most important five seconds of his life. And the lives of two dead pilots, two flight attendands, 60 some odd passengers, I don't know how many fire fighters...

Ultimately he had to watch out the window while the two dudes he just manslaughtered paid the price for his mistake, as he was screaming impotently.
more on DEI and staffing shortages in ATC in my next post
 
ATC has always been a decent paying federal job, doubly so now with the mandatory overtime, and so I suppose that's why there has been such a DEI focus on it. It's a compounding problem, however, courtesy of the military. In the military fixed wing pilots are almost always comissioned officers, and controllers are always enlisted. It's much harder to get DEI officers in general, and harder to get them in the cockpit doubly so. When a family member was an instructor pilot in a branch of the service, over twenty five years ago, people of diversity were given retraining and extra re checks far beyond the non diverse and half of the time they still washed out. That leaves you with a large core group of mostly high performing white men, even after a number of them washed out. Contrast with mil ATC who have lax standards and a very, very easy job. Mil bases are extroadinarily simple layouts and operations, and the pilots are hot shit so controlling could not be easier.

After they serve, you're left with a pipeline of competent pilots (even the DEI hires at this point at least perform to standards) joining the airlines, and a group of mostly midwits with a few standouts that can slide right over into civilian ATC. Mil to civ ATC still have to train on the job in the civilian locations, where the job is much more tough, and not many chose to or can stay.

Then there's the civilian route, which is the bipartisan federal fuckup of the last twenty years precisely responsible for the endemic and severe ATC staffing shortages today. Let's say Joe Blow decides he wants to be a controller, so he applies for the position. After around one to two years, the FAA finally responds to him and wants to bring Joe in for testing and an interview, which he passes. Congratulations! But don't quit your day job Joe, because now you're merely in the hiring pool and it will take another two years MINIMUM for your slot to come up and for you to finally be able to attend The Academy. (there's only one)

At least the academy is paid, so now you do quit your day job. It takes a long time to work your way through the academy, and the washout rate is very high. Something like eighty percent high. Many of Joe's friends have been paid peanuts only to wash out for saying "frontier 5185" instead of "frontier 1585," which happens multiple times a day out in the real world but is fireable at the academy, but Joe makes it! Hooray he's finally working his first position in an enroute facility, now getting paid slightly more than peanuts.

He meets his trainee supervisor mentor, who promptly says "Welcome to the real world, throw out everything they taught you at the academy because those guys aren't controllers and never have been, and nothing there is reflective of the real world or how we actually do our jobs." Welcome to what is academy 2.0, where the stakes are real this time, and where you are woefully unprepared. At least you have someone supervising you at all times for the next two years, ready to help you or fire you depending on how they feel you are performing.

They tell this to everyone at the beginning of the process, at least. So they're left with a lack of quality applicants, and not enough volume. By the time all the tests are administered, and as many are washed out as they can, the small number of academy starts leaves a tiny trickle of fully qualified controllers which run the gamut from slightly unable to meet standards but not caught, to mainly middle performers, and a scant few high performers.

There used to be a college or trade school that had a ATC development program that guaranteed a slot the academy, because its graduates had very high odds of becoming fully qualified controllers. The feds cancelled the guaranteed slot deal despite the high quality of trainees provided due to the program graduates not fulfilling diversity requirements
:lossmanjack:
 
Jesus, those poor pilots. There was nothing they could have done to prevent the collision, and I can only pray their death was swift.

For all I love bombing retarded Muzzies, I do wish the Trump government would throw shekels at getting more ATC staff trained up ASAP. We needed to do it like 20 years ago, but of course Biden fucked everything up with DEI requirements. The fact that the Trump government hasn't done anything about the ATC problem is seriously retarded.

EDIT: To be clear, while I do place blame on the Trump government for not doing everything they can to fix things, this is a failure of multiple governments on both sides of the spectrum, going back several decades. I blame all of them for causing the conditions that led up to this tragic incident. The onus is on the current government to prevent this from happening again, though.
 
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For all I love bombing retarded Muzzies, I do wish the Trump government would throw shekels at getting more ATC staff trained up ASAP. We needed to do it like 20 years ago, but of course Biden fucked everything up with DEI requirements. The fact that the Trump government hasn't done anything about the ATC problem is seriously retarded.

EDIT: To be clear, while I do place blame on the Trump government for not doing everything they can to fix things, this is a failure of multiple governments on both sides of the spectrum, going back several decades. I blame all of them for causing the conditions that led up to this tragic incident. The onus is on the current government to prevent this from happening again, though.
I bet you could train a 120 IQ white guy to do better-than-average ATC work in about three weeks.
 
I was hearing that he was the only guy working both ATC and ground operations at LaGuardia during this. The one thing I wish is that the Feds would fund ATC controllers better for their program as it’s quite vital for what they do.
Here’s a video of the crash (quite brutal imo). Rest in peace to the pilots who did their best.
 
I was hearing that he was the only guy working both ATC and ground operations at LaGuardia during this.
There might be multiple controllers working but someone might be on a break or handling something else. And this controller clears the firetruck to cross and then clears a plane to land in the same breath. It sounds like his brain is elsewhere and he's just going through the motions directing traffic and not even paying attention. This isn't the first collision between ground traffic and a landing plane and will likely be attributed to controller error.

When the controller realizes a collision is imminent he panics and he doesn't even issue clear orders. He tells the truck to stop but it's already in the flight path. They either needed to accelerate forward to clear the landing area or push backwards if the lane behind them was clear of other trucks. He also just yells "stop" into the microphone before indicating he's talking to the crossing truck and a specific plane.
 
Based on the historical facts of the last couple years the cause of the accident is that God hates the CRJ and we should destroy all of these Canadian planes tonplacate him.
 
It is possible, though perhaps DEI was more indirectly responsible than directly responsible. ATC was a major DEI focus for the federal government a very long time even predating usage of the word. I think deeper systemic issues with ATC are also at play.

It's honestly insane how much it seems like, to this day, the Obama admin fucked the ATC talent pool by only hiring a relatively small amount of melanated retards from 2014-2018. According to lawsuits against the FAA they used a really backhanded form of DEI that was unintentionally somehow more racist than anything I've read even here:

https://mslegal.org/cases/brigida-v-faa/

If they just straight-up said "we're prioritizing minorities" they risked obvious legal action, so from what I understand they basically replaced meritocracy with a biographical application that specifically discouraged intellectualism and experience in order to exclude whites and asians. Given what I've read about this policy it succeeded, but given the criteria selected it sounds like they specifically chose the least qualified controllers they could find (even among minorities)

The questionnaire sought irrelevant information such as the “college subject in which I received my lowest grade.” Those answering “history/political science” received 15 points. Playing four or more sports in high school was worth 5 points.
By contrast, holding a pilot’s license — a major advantage for a controller — was worth only 2 points. And having valuable experience as an air traffic controller in the military was worth no points at all.
 
That is common late at night and/or in low workload situations, but is a contributing factor

It's New York City La Guardia. I don't think such a airport would ever have "low workload situations" outside of being shut down for extreme weather or The Funny (9/11). Right?
 
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