Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Kosher Dill]

The term should be "presenting a link"

I'd even say "citing" or "presenting a citation" to put it in terms a lawyer might understand.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Take it to mass debates before you get this thread locked yet AGAIN you autists.

Took it to DMs.

 

[obsdj]

I'd even say "citing" or "presenting a citation" to put it in terms a lawyer might understand.

Eh, "cite" is actually another type of HTML element. There's a buttload of ordinary-sounding words that mean something very, very specific when used in the context of computing. Maybe just a single, short educational paragraph about what a hyperlink is and how it works, and how it DOES NOT FUCKING WORK, and that if such a link was allegedly shared on Kiwi Farms that doesn't mean blah blah blah blah blah.

 

[Iron Hamster]

can the parties in a civil suit like this interrogate each other as witnesses at the trial?
how about depositions? could we end up with video footage of hardin deposing russ, or russ deposing null?

As a civil case there should be depositions.

 

[UncleTusky]

A third eviction and homeless drool saga where our hapless shitlips *actually* just entirely drops the ball (loses a phone and cant replace it, doesnt pay his cell bill, whatever). Or does it just hold in perpetuity like now even if he fails to object/reply/respond.

This already happened for all intents and purposes, he just went radio silent for an extended period to the point the judges ordered him to show cause why the case should not be dismissed for failure to prosecute. Of course, they accepted plights as adequate cause Null's objections notwithstanding.

ETA: Links to relevant filings.

As soon as the motion to dismiss is ruled on, can Hardin just start subpoenaing Russell and Amazon and everyone because discovery is no longer paused, or would he have to wait for the new scheduling conference to set dates?

Bennett's order does not include such a caveat. With the self-inconsistent and unfair approach Bennett has taken to deadlines Hardin should not wait around for a conference. Especially when there are third parties (Amazon, financial institutions holding Russ' accounts, possibly Google) that are likely to comply with a subpoena and respond with highly relevant information. Asking for clarification on the pause might be a good CYA move for discovery against Russtard but that can wait when he is going to gum up discovery regardless.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

am I misremembering something or did Russ pray for jury later than he was allowed to? With the jurisdictional fuckery, maybe that's meaningless

 

[DragoonSierra]

Interlocutory appeal is looking more and more attractive. Go above Barlow's head. He's already hostile.

The only reason to do this at this stage is if Hardin gets removed as Nulls attorney.

 

[Mk1 Fire Control Computer]

They are STILL going on about how the book was posted on the Kiwifarms. How hard is it to explain to these boomers that the book was posted on a Google Drive, not the kiwifarms?

There seems to be a lot of people making the same mistake on this point, so I did at least enough research to maybe not be retarded, so here goes.

In a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss, all facts alleged by the plantiff are assumed to be true. Remember what the defense is saying at this point: "Your Honor, even if everything that retarded nigger said is true, (and we don't concede it is) he hasn't laid out enough facts to prove his case. Dismiss it."

Therefore, the judge, faced with Greertard saying the Kiwi Farms hosted the file, and Null saying he didn't, for purposes of deciding this motion, the judge assumes Greer is right. The truth of where the file was can be determined later- it may be established by discovery for summary judgement, or is a fact for the jury to find at trial.

The judges are actually pretty hamstrung in their ability to say Mr Green hasn't alleged enough facts- the 10th Circuit is pretty clear. He did, and they can't dispute that.

Are there limits to how much the plantiff can say is true? The controlling case is Iqbal, and according to that case, not really. Post Iqbal, a few limits appeared, but they aren't about judging the plausiblity of the claim- again, Iqbal doesn't give the judge that authority. It has to be facts contradicted by evidence the plantiff may have admitted, or something of public record that the judge can take judicial notice of- like, the plantiff says the sky is green all the time, and a learned treatise says its blue, and somehow this is relevant to the case. This is a very high bar.

So, in conclusion, the fact that Fuckface lied in his complaint about the location of the file is, at this stage, interesting, but not relevant. The question is. do the facts alleged there fulfill the elements of contributory copyright infringement? The 10th Cuircut said yes, and so this particular issue moves on.

Positive Polly? That's a sticker.

Quick question. Is that something that is likely to be granted in this case? I assume so, but I have no idea if there's any nuance and the like that'd prevent it from happening.

There isn't any nuance to it- the 7th Amendment guarantees that either side in a Federal civil case can have a jury trial- both sides have to agree to a bench trial.

 

[mindlessobserver]

It really is hard to remember we haven't even gotten to discovery yet in this 5 year old case.

 

[DavidS877]

It really is hard to remember we haven't even gotten to discovery yet in this 5 year old case.

That's not true. We were in discovery for several months. That's how we got that document from Greer.

Oh, wait.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

It really is hard to remember we haven't even gotten to discovery yet in this 5 year old case.

The real discovery was discovering ourselves.

 

[Bill Evans 45]

The judges didn't even bat an eye at the whoring.

Not on the record. I find it unbelievable that someone, be it admin, clerks, stenographers, interns, the judicial legal assistants or even the judges themselves haven't made it a topic of coffee cold beverage break conversation.

but forcing Russ to speak for hours on end without any sort of assistance is such a disadvantage.

Nobody is is forcing Greee to do anything. This is all his own doing. (I know I am being repeatedly pedantic over Russell's personal responsibility for this and his life in general in both threads, but words matter. Especially when you're dealing with a litigious bamboon).

 

[Piggle Rick]

Speaking of which, Dear Mr. Hardin, please never fucking use that word again in this case, except maybe when you explain on the record that it doesn't mean what you or the judges thought (citing that Junior Coder middle-school manual which even luddites should be able to comprehend).

If I was trying to explain it to my father I’d say something like “a Kiwi Farms user posted a comment that included a link to an unrelated site. Clicking the link would take users to this unrelated site, where a copy of Plaintiff’s book had been uploaded. Nobody ever uploaded Plaintiff’s book to the Kiwi Farms”.

The truth of where the file was can be determined later- it may be established by discovery for summary judgement, or is a fact for the jury to find at trial.

Yes but since that might be the principal issue at trial, I really think Hardin should be rubbing it in at every opportunity.

(Edited because I did a retarded spelling)

 

[Al from Dadeville]

Maybe that's the plan, drag this shit out sooo long both judges will retire so we can get a honest judge on the case

I have been thinking, the magistrate judge isn’t going anywhere and neither is Barlow, but the 10th could end up with a new no-nonsense black woman appointed as district judge and the case could get reassigned to her just from Barlow shuffling around a case he doesn’t want to deal with. I think Bennett would still be the magistrate in that situation.

could we end up with video footage of hardin deposing russ, or russ deposing null?

If depositions happen I highly doubt they’d be video depositions unless we donate some serious cash ahead of time. That would still end up being a court filing and it might actually look bad.

 

[Mk1 Fire Control Computer]

If depositions happen I highly doubt they’d be video depositions unless we donate some serious cash ahead of time. That would still end up being a court filing and it might actually look bad.

Videoing depositions isn't very expensive. and is just a good idea- in case a witness can't be called, you can show the video. I doubt neither Hardin nor Null would be concerned about a few bucks to have Greer's testimony on film.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Not on the record. I find it unbelievable that someone, be it admin, clerks, stenographers, interns, the judicial legal assistants or even the judges themselves haven't made it a topic of coffee cold beverage break conversation.

They might have, but I feel like people are hoping Mormon Rage will activate and the judges will sentence Greer to a diet of saltpeter, and it just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

 

[UncleTusky]

Videoing depositions isn't very expensive. and is just a good idea- in case a witness can't be called, you can show the video. I doubt neither Hardin nor Null would be concerned about a few bucks to have Greer's testimony on film.

Is there a reason for video over transcription? When I look at the case that introduced me to lolsuits, the only deposition that ended up on the docket was transcribed by a professional stenographer. Unless stenographers are highly expensive/in short supply or video depositions get extra deference from the judge, it is hard to envision a benefit to Null/objection from Greer that video provides and transcription does not.

My bigger concern with any sort of deposition is that Russ will be entitled to attend them all, just getting him to agree to a time/date will be like pulling teeth and then he'll sabotage the depositions by ignoring procedural rules when they do happen.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

highly expensive/in short supply

They’re in such short supply that the jury trial I was on had the judge interrupt the trial to thank his stenographer and advertise being one as they needed more.

 

[obsdj]

Is there a reason for video over transcription? When I look at the case that introduced me to lolsuits, the only deposition that ended up on the docket was transcribed by a professional stenographer. Unless stenographers are highly expensive/in short supply or video depositions get extra deference from the judge, it is hard to envision a benefit to Null/objection from Greer that video provides and transcription does not.

People (judges, juries) can draw inferences from the way a person behaves, the way they look, shift, make awkward pauses, tone of voice paired with facial expressions, all the kind of human tics that aren't transcribed in writing. "Is this person believable?" is always better determined by observation in addition to the words they say.

 

[Mk1 Fire Control Computer]

My bigger concern with any sort of deposition is that Russ will be entitled to attend them all, just getting him to agree to a time/date will be like pulling teeth and then he'll sabotage the depositions by ignoring procedural rules when they do happen.

A valid concern- fair warning, I asked Claude to research this question, so it could be way off.

To start, as both a party and counsel Shitlips has a right to attend all depositions. (As does Hardin and Dear Feeder.) They can attend remotely. His ability to do much to muck up depositions is limited. He can't object to Hardin's questions other than for himself, and even then only to form, and he still has to answer. He will still fuck this up, get sanctioned and still have to do it.

In terms of the place of depositions, they can't be placed in locations too far from the witness. Null has to be deposed near whatever swamp he lives in. The Brothel King has to be deposed in Las Vegas. Other witnesses cannot be asked to go more than 100 miles, and everyone needs to be compensated for travel.

As to the timing, Greertard has some rights to object to the timing, but it has to be for good cause- long scheduled vacation, medical procedure, death in the family. I don't know how it would work with pro se litigants and "I have to work." Also, the history of the litigant matters too- Greee's history of being a fuckup should be weighed as part of judging any scheduling dispute. Since he can attend remotely, the location matters less. Also, how reasonable he was in resolving the dispute matters- and given this shitbird's history of flatly objecting to everything, I doubt he will be much reasonable. The witness' schedule also weighs heavily in the dispute.

I suspect it we get that far, Greer will likely fuck it all up even more, and get stacked with adverse inferences.