Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Prokhor Zakharov]

It's not bad or unsurprising. The reasoning is awful but the fact it was revived on merit by the 10th circuit means a dismissal on merit would be extremely difficult. The recommendation that flips-flops in the middle about the server test seems to reflect that reality.

There are other dismissal motions based on misconduct that are pending. I think they have more legs as the 10th has not weighed in on conduct. I think the judges recognize at least how sticky the merits are and will be more likely to dismiss on other grounds that aren't on the merits. Chin up!

Wasn't it revived by the 10th for only the potential of merit? It seems like many of the reasons that various off-ramps haven't been taken in this case are because of the potential of something, no actual decisions on any actual merits at this point.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Even more than that, it pretty much makes every company in the United States liable for infringement.

That's a price the government is more than willing to pay

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Wasn't it revived by the 10th for only the potential of merit? It seems like many of the reasons that various off-ramps haven't been taken in this case are because of the potential or something, no actual decisions on any actual merits at this point.

Yes - that's the whole crux and confusion. We're still in the pre-trial period where things are dismissed if there is NO POSSIBILITY of merit, and so even the faintest whiff of merit can keep it moving along.

Which is why so much of Russ's original plights got dismissed and stayed dismissed under simple things like "failure to state a claim" (e.g., it was plightsperging).

 

[Windex]

When dealing with a nuisance suit years ago, the lawyers suggested that religiously checking the docket for updates and pouring over each filing was unwise, because it is easy for a layman to get bogged down in the little skirmishes and lose sight of the overarching war (or lose the stomach for it.)

I don’t know if this is a common recommendation, but it leads me to wonder whether the hundreds (thousands?) of pages of Greer’s malicious nonsense and seemingly impenetrable tardshield over the years of this case has any influence on our ability to interpret each new ruling objectively.

 

[Harvey Danger]

When dealing with a nuisance suit years ago, the lawyers suggested that religiously checking the docket for updates and pouring over each filing was unwise, because it is easy for a layman to get bogged down in the little skirmishes and lose sight of the overarching war (or lose the stomach for it.)

They're 100% right and all of us know that, intellectually. But we're also autistic law spergs on a gossip site a-logging 2 retards and a Greertard. The hysterics and so-over-so-back mood swings are what we do for fun.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I think it is still worthwhile, a ruling in favor of Cox Communication will heavily assist KiwiFarms' contributory infringement defence.

Which is why the ruling is likely to be in favor of Sony lol

 

[Dixieland Buckaroo]

Three upcoming opinion days in SCOTUS in the next two weeks. Anyone hopeful?

Feels like it would be unusually quick, but the justices did seem to be mostly aligned, if for varied reasons. Maybe 1 in 20 odds, just that low because of the complexity of the issue.

 

[Disgruntled Pupper]

If this goes to trial and KF has to just use fair use defense (as opposed to procedural issues or the fact that some of the material was never even hosted on the site!) things are unlikely to go well. The courts do not hold the same view of 'fair use' as we think they should.

If you want me to be a Positive Polly for once, Greer has requested a trial by jury. We don't know if one will be granted, but if it is, I'd say we have a 50-50% shot that when the good people of Utah are exposed to Goofy Greer, whore monger extraordinaire, who in the very book he's sueing over admits he has multiple restraining orders against him, they will realize that 1) there is a public interest in keeping track of this loony menace to society and 2) grasp what the judges pretend they can't- that the Kiwi Farms is not Google and that linking to files on Google is not a crime. If Hardin can work in mentioning that every time they click on a link to The Dodo when they're on Boomerbook it takes them to The Dodos website, they should understand.

 

[Milk Float]

If you want me to be a Positive Polly for once, Greer has requested a trial by jury. We don't know if one will be granted, but if it is, I'd say we have a 50-50% shot that when the good people of Utah are exposed to Goofy Greer, whore monger extraordinaire, who in the very book he's sueing over admits he has multiple restraining orders against him, they will realize that 1) there is a public interest in keeping track of this loony menace to society and 2) grasp what the judges pretend they can't- that the Kiwi Farms is not Google and that linking to files on Google is not a crime. If Hardin can work in mentioning that every time they click on a link to The Dodo when they're on Boomerbook it takes them to The Dodos website, they should understand.

I’d wager his pride in whoring would not go over well with a Utah-based jury, either.

 

[Malcolm X]

Barlow has a pretty impeccable reputation, and being flatly reversed by a place he probably has or has had sights on almost certainly is not something he wants to repeat. The reversal suggested the appellate court not only thought Barlow was wrong but that the issue needs air time, and I think Barlow is loathe to cut it off at a 12b stage.

Was Barlow the "judge of record" or whatever it's called when Tina™ was in session?

No. Tena Campbell was the district judge above Bowtie, and it was her (completely correct, succinct, and well-argued) decision* that was reversed by the 10th. When it was sent back down to her, she recused herself. Probably because she was about to retire, though I still like to think it's because she was like fuck this case. Barlow was then randomly selected to take over.

*If you haven't already, I recommend reading Campbell's order granting the dismissal (it's in the OP), if for no other reason than to reassure yourself that not all judges are bumbling boobs who can't get half the facts of their cases right and are seemingly inspired by muh plights and im broke to write patently illogical orders.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I’d wager his pride in whoring would not go over well with a Utah-based jury, either.

I think the "Mormon Effect" gets vastly oversold. The judges didn't even bat an eye at the whoring.

 

[AnOminous]

Barlow has a pretty impeccable reputation, and being flatly reversed by a place he probably has or has had sights on almost certainly is not something he wants to repeat. The reversal suggested the appellate court not only thought Barlow was wrong but that the issue needs air time, and I think Barlow is loathe to cut it off at a 12b stage.

Barlow wasn't the one reversed. It was Campbell who was reversed (obviously imo incorrectly).

 

[HackerX]

If you want me to be a Positive Polly for once,

Positive Polly? That's a sticker.

Greer has requested a trial by jury.

Quick question. Is that something that is likely to be granted in this case? I assume so, but I have no idea if there's any nuance and the like that'd prevent it from happening.

If this goes to trial

I'm still lol'ing at the idea. Specifically for Russ. There's only really one way it can go. Russ spending the entire time plightsperging, and Hardin objecting over shit that's utterly irrelevant to the case.

I doubt Russ realizes he's going to have to speak clearly to a pool of jurors, knowing that Hardin (and the judge) are gonna interject every time he veers off course, which is all he does. He doesn't even know what the right course is, FFS. AND present evidence??? All he's gonna have is a screenshot of a few posts because he won't know what do with all the shit he wants to subpoena from Null. Hell, He'll probably just post that raw and try to plightsplain his way through it whole the jury is seething in their seats thinking "why the fuck am I even here".

On that note, is there any disability support mechanisms to help Russ present his case? Like a drool-to-English translator or something? I'm not even being spiteful with this question, but forcing Russ to speak for hours on end without any sort of assistance is such a disadvantage. Sure, he might be able to be understandable for the first hour or so, but he'll eventually get tired, lazy, and begin to mumble. And that's just after an hour or so. He'll be expected to do this for days.

 

[AnOminous]

When it was sent back down to her, she recused herself. Probably because she was about to retire, though I still like to think it's because she was like fuck this case.

She assumed senior status on January 1, 2011, well before this case (she had previously been chief judge and it shows). I'm not sure why she isn't hearing the case on remand. She's still hearing cases, though, including three filed just in the first half of February.

I like the idea she took one look at the Tenth Circuit's moronic opinion and said fuck this shit.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

Barlow wasn't the one reversed. It was Campbell who was reversed (obviously imo incorrectly).

Damnit! Lol, didn't even need decisions to come down to be wrong in 27 ways!

 

[TooManyKittens]

Im coming around to the idea that anyone who needs justice and isnt particularly well loved by an unfair judiciary (sorry null you arent a sassy black woman from haiti with some anchor babies. Such is), can only pray for justice in the form of the untimely accidental death of their agressors. (No not just because of this case)

Concrete shoes are decades out of style and Russtard isnt the right brand of degenerate for a fent habit so, i guess its down to praying for a lightning strike or him drowning in his own drool at night. Or pissing off the wrong person in the escort/whore industry and being introduced to secluded desert historic mine sites.

Not entirely hopeless i suppose. But more seriously, is there any point where this dies due to say..

A third eviction and homeless drool saga where our hapless shitlips *actually* just entirely drops the ball (loses a phone and cant replace it, doesnt pay his cell bill, whatever). Or does it just hold in perpetuity like now even if he fails to object/reply/respond. (Hey. Hes qualified to be a judge in utah!)

 

[Unknown God]

Barlow wasn't the one reversed. It was Campbell who was reversed (obviously imo incorrectly).

I hadn't read the original motion to dismiss or Tina's order granting it. I have now. I have a few thoughts.

I am still MATL about him not arguing jurisdiction. Seems to me that every single lolcow case that pops up now (and even all non-lowcow cases that I bothered reading) jurisdiction is the first thing they try to argue, even if the arguments are weak and the jurisdiction is obviously correct. Skordas not arguing it at all when it was blatantly incorrect strikes me as just plain negligence. And now, five years later, bowtie is mentioning this omission to fuck Null over.

Also, it feels like Skordas should have pointed out the link vs host thing. Even as she dismisses the case, Tina still writes her order talking about how the copyrighted content was "posted on Kiwi Farms" which obviously implies it's being hosted there. Not only should Skordas have pointed out it was just a link, he should have pointed out that DMCAing the Kiwi Farms was the wrong way to go about it, and that if Greer DMCA'd Google, he would more than likely get it removed just fine. HOWEVER, I will say that maybe we should cut him a break here: he is probably not tech savvy enough to have caught these, and I'm guessing that Null, at the time, didn't have the "war room" mentality he has now. He should have been the one catching that and informing his lawyer. Live and learn.

Finally, one thing that sucked about Tina's dismissal is that she pointed out that there was no precedent from the 10th Circuit on the contributory copyright issue, and that she declined to "adopt the Ninth Circuit’s contributory infringement test from Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon.com, Inc.". This obviously opened the door for the malicious Soviet-born-jewess-led reviewers to go "OH PERFECT so let's set the precedent then" and make Null eat shit out of pure malice.

 

[Belgians in the Congo]

I think the "Mormon Effect" gets vastly oversold

Anyone talking about the Mormon effect just needs to take one good look at Mr "Bowtie" Bennett.

They used to call him the BBB in college, you don't want to know why.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Im coming around to the idea that anyone who needs justice and isnt particularly well loved by an unfair judiciary (sorry null you arent a sassy black woman from haiti with some anchor babies. Such is), can only pray for justice in the form of the untimely accidental death of their agressors. (No not just because of this case)

This is always the case in a legal system monopolized by the state
It's a fundamentally unjust and rigged system

 

[the khat quaffer]

On that note, is there any disability support mechanisms to help Russ present his case? Like a drool-to-English translator or something? I'm not even being spiteful with this question, but forcing Russ to speak for hours on end without any sort of assistance is such a disadvantage. Sure, he might be able to be understandable for the first hour or so, but he'll eventually get tired, lazy, and begin to mumble. And that's just after an hour or so. He'll be expected to do this for days.

Russ will turn opening arguments into a goddamn filibuster.

HOWEVER, I will say that maybe we should cut him a break here: he is probably not tech savvy enough to have caught these, and I'm guessing that Null, at the time, didn't have the "war room" mentality he has now. He should have been the one catching that and informing his lawyer. Live and learn.

Having to tell a lawyer how to lawyer. Having to expect a lawyer and multiple judges to understand concepts that a 12 year old could understand. That embedding a link to an external party does not mean the content of that link is being hosted on the site you linked it to. This is shit has been around since the dawn of the internet.
If Amazon posts a 3 minute clip of Rings of Power to youtube, and I embed that video on this site, can some diversity hire at Amazon sue Null (completely ignoring youtube) because maybe somebody on here (neither me nor Null) said "THERE ARE NO NIGGERS IN THE SHIRE!!!"?

The future sucks.


edit

constantly being interrupted by the words "objection" and "sustained"

We can expect something like this to be how the trial will go down.