🌟 Internet Famous David Steel / LazerPig / Ricewynd / Malquistion - Pathological Liar, Reddit Historian, Femboy Thirster, and Vore Connoisseur

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Yeah and those shields are tough mother fuckers and more or less the sole reason why the Covenant sees such widespread success in their crusade against humanity. They nearly drove us to extinction, remember, and the only thing that saved us in the end was an internal schism within the Covenant at a critical moment and a madcap plan that took us beyond the edge of the galaxy.
Also don't forget that UNSC MACs scale with the ship's size, most UNSC ships are smaller than their Covenant equivalents, and the UNSC was outnumbered for most of the war.

MACs still aren't "worth their weight in piss" given the heavier ones used by UNSC Cruisers and bigger ships would skullfuck Covenant ships that weren't capital-sized, shield or no shield.
 
Also don't forget that UNSC MACs scale with the ship's size, most UNSC ships are smaller than their Covenant equivalents, and the UNSC was outnumbered for most of the war.

MACs still aren't "worth their weight in piss" given the heavier ones used by UNSC Cruisers and bigger ships would skullfuck Covenant ships that weren't capital-sized, shield or no shield.
Sure, pound for pound the MAC is a solid weapons system but that doesn't mean shit given the significant greater overall tonnage of the Covenant.
 
It would only take a slight deformation in the slug to send it off target by a mile and the laser systems deployed on ships now are in the 100kw range which is more than enough to cause de-lamination.
They can't do that at ranges that would matter, and railgun slugs would only be mildly aerodynamic at that point - they are moving so fast with so much kinetic energy that a small aerodynamic imperfection close to the target is unlikely to affect trajectory bigly - an object in motion will stay in motion.

Additionally a rail gun slug moves at such speed, and would be launched such comparitively short ranges that the system to detect, track, lock and engage would have only a few seconds to do so if even that.

Now I want to be clear I'm not saying that vaporizing a rail gun slug with a laser is impossible - it is very possible - and it gets easier to do the closer it is. But I am saying that with current production lasers they would not have the range or power to have much of an effect. In the future, that might change but at that point your laser is probably better as an offensive instead of defensive weapon.
 
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Here is the main thing: For Iowa class, designed to slug it out with other battleships with 16 inch guns, the needed tech upgrade to shrug off a flight of sheheed with 50kg payloads would be "Close the hatches and windows". With anti-torpedo bulges you could launch drones into it all day long and it would still be in shape to rape your coast & ports with 16-inch shells from 1937.

Modern ships are not built to those standards because an Iowa was still vulnerable to a nuclear torpedo, so it was determined a more robust internal structure and speed was more valuable than hauling around tons of hardened steel armor that would be of questionable utility

So the question for the Trump Battleship and Casino is how much armor they'll put on the thing and if it would actually be able to tank some hits and keep firing.

Honestly the only issue I have is the railgun. The DDX tried that and we ended up with instead is a 155mm gun with no ammo available.

5in multi-purpose guns are actually prefectly fine for nearly any current thing you'd need to engage. But man would it kill them to at least put two 8-inch guns on there?
A 50kg he frag explosion would wreck radar and comms so you'd be going back to 1930s range finding and target engagement too


A shahed is just a cheap, slow Cruise missile
I love the surrender monkey mentality Lazerpig and his fans put out. Navy actually does something for once, it's cool, but because Trump is attached, they are mad. They also completely ignore the FF(X) frigate program that's being built along side it based on the Legend class, a proven US design that just needs to be up gunned.
Correct
Said missile mafia may get fucked regardless if the defensive lasers get any more powerful. No amount of ablative carbon aerogel is going to stop your precious $10mil interceptor from frying, and massing the missiles doesn't make the equation much favorable when a nuclear-powered laser-equipped ship has essentially infinite defensive ammunition to counter whatever you throw at it. Long-range ballistic cannons may actually be a good counter to laser defenses making missiles less effective, as the projectiles have a far smaller cross-section, rendering them difficult to intercept with lasers, and need not be as vulnerable to damage if they're dead weight. Railguns even moreso, except with hypersonic speeds.
Eeehhhh no. The Helios laser on a Burke is about as good as it gets and even if is heavily affected by atmospherics
Firstly, we weren't talking about the Defiant and potential Trump Class BBGNs, we were talking about the successor to the Constellation, the FF(X). Talking about those 35,000 ton behemoths is a whole different ball park.
I doubt the Trump class will be 35k tons, probably 20k max
https://youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2-h_0H_08 Lazerpig has posted a 34 minute video about the Trump Class Battleship. He's really angy.
Lmao he's seething as the UK is incapable of making an equivalent
Hot take but Legends of the Galactic Heroes has the best space combat and it's 19th century line warfare in space.
David Weber wants your location
They can't do that at ranges that would matter, and railgun slugs would only be mildly aerodynamic at that point - they are moving so fast with so much kinetic energy that a small aerodynamic imperfection close to the target is unlikely to affect trajectory bigly - an object in motion will stay in motion.

Additionally a rail gun slug moves at such speed, and would be launched such comparitively short ranges that the system to detect, track, lock and engage would have only a few seconds to do so if even that.

Now I want to be clear I'm not saying that vaporizing a rail gun slug with a laser is impossible - it is very possible - and it gets easier to do the closer it is. But I am saying that with current production lasers they would not have the range or power to have much of an effect. In the future, that might change but at that point your laser is probably better as an offensive instead of defensive weapon.
Lasers are good against little targets going slow and targets that have very little mass going kinda fast
 
I doubt the Trump class will be 35k tons, probably 20k max
If it's going to be in the 20-25,000 ton range, just give it 200 VLS cells and call it a Cruiser. It's not that hard, and we've lacked a suitable cruiser replacement since the 90s. (We only got the last of the Ticonderoga Class now, Burkes don't cut as a suitable replacement for them).
 
If it's going to be in the 20-25,000 ton range, just give it 200 VLS cells and call it a Cruiser. It's not that hard, and we've lacked a suitable cruiser replacement since the 90s. (We only got the last of the Ticonderoga Class now, Burkes don't cut as a suitable replacement for them).
It will be a heavy missile cruiser and will probably end up with more than 128 Mk.41 VLS cells, but Trump just loves old fashioned ship names

The multiple hypersonic missile cells are extremely fascinating tbh

Also, this will probably have 2+ RAM launchers plus 2- 30mm and 25mm auto canon.

2 5 inch guns is fine and a rail gun is.... Interesting.

A laser system will probably be a follow on to HELIOS with a power rating of 100kw or better


Pre Helios the laser was at ~33-50kw and has issues with atmospheric conditions

HELIOS is at 60kw and it's planned to try and max it out at 150kw in the future.

Israel has just started using Iron Beam which maxes out at 100kw on a ground based system

The issue with lasers is.... Power generation and the Flight 2b Burkes can handle Helios but not much more and the Flight 3 Burkes actually have less power available so even Helios is a stretch for them.

Note that DDG(X) is still ongoing and have been under design for 3+ years at this point.

I cannot see the Trump class being a 1:1 Burke replacement, at all. Crew size is too big the ship is big and will cost more.

A DDG(X) should top out at 12-14,000 tons.
 
It will be a heavy missile cruiser and will probably end up with more than 128 Mk.41 VLS cells, but Trump just loves old fashioned ship names

The multiple hypersonic missile cells are extremely fascinating tbh

Also, this will probably have 2+ RAM launchers plus 2- 30mm and 25mm auto canon.

2 5 inch guns is fine and a rail gun is.... Interesting.

A laser system will probably be a follow on to HELIOS with a power rating of 100kw or better


Pre Helios the laser was at ~33-50kw and has issues with atmospheric conditions

HELIOS is at 60kw and it's planned to try and max it out at 150kw in the future.

Israel has just started using Iron Beam which maxes out at 100kw on a ground based system

The issue with lasers is.... Power generation and the Flight 2b Burkes can handle Helios but not much more and the Flight 3 Burkes actually have less power available so even Helios is a stretch for them.

Note that DDG(X) is still ongoing and have been under design for 3+ years at this point.

I cannot see the Trump class being a 1:1 Burke replacement, at all. Crew size is too big the ship is big and will cost more.

A DDG(X) should top out at 12-14,000 tons.
Honestly it's more of a spite thing. The navy and congress has been retarded on replacing cruisers for decades now. So Trump-sama just decided to call it a battleship and cut the Gordian knot of ship procurement, while also pissing off every autist stuck in WW2 where technology has not advanced from in 80 years apparently
 
The Covenant showed up with plasma weapons firing ionized gas shaped by magnetic fields that humanity was far from developing and humanity responded by throwing rocks, but really, really, really, really fast.

God, I fucking love being a human. Imagine being some nutsack-eared, turkey-necked alien coming out of warp drive above a human planet and essentially getting pelted by rocks thrown at the speed of Mach Jesus until you learn there’s not an afterlife for your disgusting race of filthy neckbeards.

Evidently some of the orbital MAC guns could fire slugs up to 4,000 tons in weight. Can you imagine if the UNSC could have cloned LazerFag and used him as ammunition in their MAC guns? The Covenant never would have stood a chance when his fat ass gets flung through their shields faster than he can commit Stolen Valor.
 
The Covenant showed up with plasma weapons firing ionized gas shaped by magnetic fields that humanity was far from developing and humanity responded by throwing rocks, but really, really, really, really fast.

God, I fucking love being a human. Imagine being some nutsack-eared, turkey-necked alien coming out of warp drive above a human planet and essentially getting pelted by rocks thrown at the speed of Mach Jesus until you learn there’s not an afterlife for your disgusting race of filthy neckbeards.

Evidently some of the orbital MAC guns could fire slugs up to 4,000 tons in weight. Can you imagine if the UNSC could have cloned LazerFag and used him as ammunition in their MAC guns? The Covenant never would have stood a chance when his fat ass gets flung through their shields faster than he can commit Stolen Valor.
Don't forget that MAC projectiles travel at up to 4% the speed of light. At speeds like that, if fired in atmosphere, the projectile's possibly going to cause an explosion with a yield on par with a nuke when it hits something. No wonder Jorge was so worried when the UNSC Grafton was authorized to fire its MAC off in atmosphere.
 
Hot take but Legends of the Galactic Heroes has the best space combat and it's 19th century line warfare in space
I love Legends of the Galactic Heroes, but man, half of the battles could be solved by thinking "what if we went over/under them?" or, even simpler, "what if we simply went past them at orbital velocity?" They're just naval fleet engagements with a different theme, nothing more. I like naval fleet engagements. I like space. Space warfare is (that we have every reason to suspect) nothing like that. It's extremely dynamic and constantly in motion, while basically every LotGH engagement is... a bunch of stationary ships against another bunch of stationary ships in formation. Line warfare just doesn't work in space. As there is yet to be any actual space combat outside of surface-to-orbit missile "demonstrations", it's entirely guessing, but you can have an educated guess. Everyone's favorite Australian's favorite game, Terra Invicta, comes somewhat close, but it too relies too much on naval formation and up-close engagement, even if it (obtusely) simulates ΔV. Children of a Dead Earth is a better contender for realistic space battles, although it, too, suffers from too-close engagements (1,000km and lower) when the engagement range could be extended far, far beyond, as well as a lack of sensor warfare, which will very likely be a very large part of combat in space (despite the eternal adage of "bUt YoU cAn'T hIdE iN sPaCe"). The reality very well may be that space engagements occur across entire astronomical units, with only small, nigh-undetectable drones trading shots up close. But, right now, nobody knows for sure, except for the obvious conclusion: it won't be naval ship-of-the-line battles. Things in space move incredibly fast. If you're not moving, everyone else is, and Isaac Newton is the deadliest motherfucker in space. Further, there are unlikely to be any Project Orion nuclear bomb propelled battleships, unfortunately, though that is mostly because of the Earth situation. But how I wish they were real.
project orion.jpg
 
Just to get back on topic: LardzerFag is a fat faggot, and I would not have sex with him.
 
Children of a Dead Earth
i did some space fights in modded ksp

yeah, the radars have a relatively short range, but u can datalink with a swarm of sensor-equipped probes for targeting stuff far away

the big 25 ton railgun is only good for striking ground targets from orbit, yeah, it sends a prpjectile going 7km/s, so if u aim it juuuust right u can hit stuff the next planet over, but its easy to avoid with very low delta-v penalty

the best weapon in ksp space battles is a probe core with an ion drive and a 12 megaton nuke strapped to it (NKDR's devs misplaced the decimal point, and i abuse the fuck out of that), send a bunch of em on an intcercept course to the enemy, ideally while also sending some EW probes to deal with point defence so that the main payload could make it through

orbit-to-orbit missiles are still fairly solid, especially if u have some probe with a radar to provide guidance datalink to the radar-guided HEKV so u can nail interplanetary shots, cuz ur own sensors lack the range, if u do so, launch as many as u can get away with

i did strap a pair of smaller 37mm railguns on some motors with the new custom turret system to be used as heavy point-defence, cuz they outrange the nuke blast radius by quite a bit

also u should always aim for the radiators, most interplanetary vessels have a nuclear reactor and a nuclear or electric (ion/plasma) engine, they need radiators for heat dissipation, fragile radiators with a juicy heat signature

destroy the radiators, and their power supply and/or engines are out, and they are probably stuck in the orbit they are currently in

if they dont use electric or nuclear engines, then their life support will fail and kill the crew

unmannned? still needs electricity, no radiators, no power, no power, ur ded
 
Legends of the Galactic Heroes, but man, half of the battles could be solved by thinking "what if we went over/under them?" or, even simpler, "what if we simply went past them at orbital velocity?" They're just naval fleet engagements with a different theme, nothing more. I like naval fleet engagements. I like space. Space warfare is (that we have every reason to suspect) nothing like that. It's extremely dynamic and constantly in motion, while basically every LotGH engagement is... a bunch of stationary ships against another bunch of stationary ships in formation. Line warfare just doesn't work in space. As there is yet to be any actual space combat outside of surface-to-orbit missile "demonstrations", it's entirely guessing, but you can have an educated guess. Everyone's favorite Australian's favorite game, Terra Invicta, comes somewhat close, but it too relies too much on naval formation and up-close engagement, even if it (obtusely) simulates ΔV. Children of a Dead Earth is a better contender for realistic space battles, although it, too, suffers from too-close engagements (1,000km and lower) when the engagement range could be extended far, far beyond, as well as a lack of sensor warfare, which will very likely be a very large part of combat in space (despite the eternal adage of "bUt YoU cAn'T hIdE iN sPaCe"). The reality very well may be that space engagements occur across entire astronomical units, with only small, nigh-undetectable drones trading shots up close. But, right now, nobody knows for sure, except for the obvious conclusion: it won't be naval ship-of-the-line battles
David Weber literally on suicide watch rn. He literally invented a ftl/non ftl drive system that FORCED everyone into ..... Ship of the line engagements. Oh and he's finally inventing space submarines now and I'm sure he'll eventually get to space dive bombers and Armor piercing projectiles.... Eventually...... After he writes the 8-15 books he's on contract to Baen for

Meanwhile, the Lost Fleet series does space combat pretty well.

Also, I highly doubt it'll be space fleets meeting in the void millions of miles away from anything.... It'll probably be relatives close to planets/moons (especially if FTL is ever figured out because why the hell would you not just jump/warp/hyperspace/wormhole gate your way to where the important/useful stuff is?

I like my sci-fi semi hard.... Ok with FTL and maybe artificial gravity but not casual teleportation and the like.
I’m too lazy to check. Has LarderNig started seething about the US strikes on Venezuela?
He's probably in a rage induced stupor at the moment.
 
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