Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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@Sleazy Car Salesman @The tired cat
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the Hellaverse griefing thread!
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Late as fuck I know but this has always boiled my piss about no talent TV show writers, they have all the time in the world. Even if you only have 8 episodes and each episode clocks in at 25 minutes that's still a grand total of 200 minutes of screen time, that's three hours and twenty minutes.
Another defense I've seen for Vivzie's writing in particular is that it's armor to keep the writer and the audience both from being "uncomfortable." From feeling anything negative for too long. Yet they're perfectly comfortable doing this:
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While I understand being "emotionally vulnerable" or whatever is a whole different ballgame from violence, which is much less intimate, I just can't help but think, "Commit." Budget your screen time. Don't have all these big songs and dances about how bad characters feel when some of them haven't earned their places yet. When you gesture at big things, only to have apologies or Care Bear Stares as payoff, then what are you doing? What's the point? Like it tries with Angel Dust trying to leave after being a double agent, or Alastor's wacky gambits paying off, but moments like that are so few and far between that they feel insufficient. If you have 8 episodes, make them count, because that makes your screen time all the more precious.
 
Have they come up with how death or even damage is done yet?

It started as angelic steel killed and made wounds that couldn't be regenerated. Alright... Then how did Lute lose her arm permanently there wasn't anything demonic or holy infused in the pillar that landed on her. Is it a choice to have it healed... Do they not regenerate?

I just don't really follow what is a dangerous attack and what is an annoyance that causes you to respawn...
 
Have they come up with how death or even damage is done yet?

It started as angelic steel killed and made wounds that couldn't be regenerated. Alright... Then how did Lute lose her arm permanently there wasn't anything demonic or holy infused in the pillar that landed on her. Is it a choice to have it healed... Do they not regenerate?

I just don't really follow what is a dangerous attack and what is an annoyance that causes you to respawn...
It took Vaggie a few years to regenerate her wings, and even then, it was only when she did her dance-fight with Carmilla, so it seems like angels can only regenerate when they aren't dealing with psychological trauma. Of course, I'm probably just making up excuses that the writers never thought of.
 
like angels can only regenerate when they aren't dealing with psychological trauma. Of course, I'm probably just making up excuses that the writers never thought of.
That's something that's done in Steven Universe with Volleyball.
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Steven couldn't figure out how to heal her cracked eye because it was a psychological issue and not a external issue. Meaning the only way to heal the cracked eye was to confront the fact that Pink was an abuser.
 
It took Vaggie a few years to regenerate her wings, and even then, it was only when she did her dance-fight with Carmilla, so it seems like angels can only regenerate when they aren't dealing with psychological trauma. Of course, I'm probably just making up excuses that the writers never thought of.

That's something that's done in Steven Universe with Volleyball.
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Steven couldn't figure out how to heal her cracked eye because it was a psychological issue and not a external issue. Meaning the only way to heal the cracked eye was to confront the fact that Pink was an abuser.
I think a lot of these worldbuilding problems come from the show itself asking questions it's not equipped to answer. It's extremely hard to talk about redemption when you treat harm and care inconsistently. For contrast, instead of bringing Sir Pentious with them (or at least proof he's up there if even angels can't get him down), Heaven's ambassadors brought gift baskets. An easily exploitable move given the context, and one that Vox took advantage of. Yet in the pilot we see Hell cleaning up its dead immediately, eating parts, picking them up to sell, Rosie crossing off her business partner's name. I haven't forgotten that disabled kid in Helluva Boss, or Vox using a kid as a prop. It all makes you wonder what Hell actually values.*

If Hell is some open air prison where people still love children (not like that) in the cold depths of their hearts, it'd be believable and looks like the direction it's going for. Yet the sinners that do get focus... don't have reasons to leave except Angel Dust (and Cherri maybe). Even Husk still owns a casino. A lot of Hell's corrosive aspects are either punchlines or background noise. The plot circles around this with the whole war with Heaven, because the only reason they'd want to leave is to not die, which can easily be stymied by closing the loop with Heaven and ending the seven-year-old extermination tradition. I think Vivzie knows this deep down on top of not wanting to kill her darlings by changing them.

To bring this back to Vox and how power works, *a lot of evil comes from belief. It can convince itself it's doing good. It's possible that Hell's power doesn't rely on true power as much as the belief or appearance of it. While this could explain why ratings and the like affect Vox so much, it also aligns with the likes of Rosie (leader of cannibals) and Alastor (repeatedly earned street cred) having so much power in the first place. But it also raises the questions of: what about the sins and Ars Goetia? Are they fueled by both sinners and earthly wrongdoing? Or are they just naturally strong due to their divine/demonic natures? Bee mentioned about sin in her circle fueling her so I guess it’s the first to some extent?

Steven Universe solved a lot of its power issues by having both body and ability reflect the mind in the gem along with its "model." That does apply to this Hell, with sinners' bodies reflecting their lives, deaths, and personalities, yet making power innate instead of built undercuts relying so much on networking, perception, and social standing. However, it'd cut the Gordian knot while emphasizing agency.
 
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Ya know, I get this weird thought, and this could be just bullshit. I can't help but feel that when Viv first brought the idea of the show to A24 and Amazon, the concept of this animated slice-of-life series with Charlie trying to help redeem sinners didn’t really get much enthusiasm. It felt like people were barely paying attention, just giving a half-hearted “Yeah, yeah, sounds interesting” at best. So, to turn things around, she started talking about the whole Heaven vs Hell thing to get everyone engaged. Since ya know, a show that you can ascribed to something like Supernatural, Spawn like pick your choice whenever it's Heaven vs Hell motive and it says dollar signs.
 
Ya know, I get this weird thought, and this could be just bullshit. I can't help but feel that when Viv first brought the idea of the show to A24 and Amazon, the concept of this animated slice-of-life series with Charlie trying to help redeem sinners didn’t really get much enthusiasm. It felt like people were barely paying attention, just giving a half-hearted “Yeah, yeah, sounds interesting” at best. So, to turn things around, she started talking about the whole Heaven vs Hell thing to get everyone engaged.
Amazon is notorious for cancelling series so the war aspect might've convinced the suits they have a new Marvel.
 
Have they come up with how death or even damage is done yet?
No, which has always been one of my biggest complaints about the series. Only angelic weapons can kill sinners, which okay, fine, because being sent to Hell is eternal damnation and all that. But then what is the risk with any of the fight scenes in HH?

In S2 this grated on me because you had the whole scene where OH NO the hypnotized Angel Dust is choking out Cherri! And then Velvette might get stabbed by Niffty! ...So? What happens if either "dies" by non-angelic weapon? And then this was even made more of a joke because Vel ends up tossed out a window and breaks into pieces because she's literally a doll. So what was the tension, exactly? What were the risks? None, so both fights are completely pointless and I have no reason to give a shit.

I can't help but feel that when Viv first brought the idea of the show to A24 and Amazon, the concept of this animated slice-of-life series with Charlie trying to help redeem sinners didn’t really get much enthusiasm. It felt like people were barely paying attention, just giving a half-hearted “Yeah, yeah, sounds interesting” at best. So, to turn things around, she started talking about the whole Heaven vs Hell thing to get everyone engaged. Since ya know, a show that you can ascribed to something like Supernatural, Spawn like pick your choice whenever it's Heaven vs Hell motive and it says dollar signs.
Possibly. Viv has said that whatever happens in S3 of Hazbin is the thing that got the whole show picked up for a the entire four seasons to begin with, so something that isn't just the "redeem sinners" thing happens and is what sold the show.
 
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the Hellaverse griefing thread!
Looking at that icon, angel Vox could both be a funny and thunk-provoking idea if they stayed with the idea that Vox still has a cult, but he wasn't evil, just him and his followers having a screwed up mindset.
Him being in Hell and Vox raging so hard is because he genuinely believed some form of God in life and even spread the word, not knowing he was tossed in Hell because he did blasphemy. Adding fuel to the fire to the last bit of anger is seeing his followers up in Heaven because they didn't do anything wrong, they followed the wrong guy. Maybe they would also question the other angels or Vox of why their leader is in Hell.
 
It's funny how pretty much everyone who has an HH/HB pfp here does nothing but bitch and complain about the shows themselves. I mean they're right, but. . .
 
It's funny how pretty much everyone who has an HH/HB pfp here does nothing but bitch and complain about the shows themselves. I mean they're right, but. . .
Think of it as the characters gaining sentience and demanding retribution for the shitty show.

Also Stans have used that logic to dessuade criticism. But you're cool, I just like wearing this as a PFP because it's funny to criticize this show. Pisses them off more when you skin walk as them to critique a show they like.

I also like to mention I watched episodes 1-4 and the pilot with @Star Is Screaming and I have a lot to say. As well as her I suppose.
 
No, which has always been one of my biggest complaints about the series. Only angelic weapons can kill sinners
I thought only angelic weapons can kill angels? Sinners die a lot, Alastor murdered a bunch of overlords for Rosie

Maybe there's some part in the pilot or something I didn't see.

It's funny how pretty much everyone who has an HH/HB pfp here does nothing but bitch and complain about the shows themselves. I mean they're right, but. . .
I don't care that much about it so I think 'it's ok' and like the good parts . If I did care about it I would be annoyed. Irony of being a fan of something
 
It's funny how pretty much everyone who has an HH/HB pfp here does nothing but bitch and complain about the shows themselves. I mean they're right, but. . .
i know for me its because of wasted potential. i unironically really enjoy the show. but also it irks me how much missed opportunity there is.

It is similar for like hunt showdown as an example. Hunt has an amazing world and lore with an addicting gameplay loop. However the current devs are dead set on ripping the IP limb from limb at every possible turn. they constantly change things and add things and make them less lore friendly for no reason. Instead of leaning into what makes it interesting and unique they want to be "safe" and try to make it more appealing for masses which ends up just making the game less appealing.

For hazbin instead of leaning into how deep something like this could go they have to simplify it as to not offend people or whatever. If they leaned harder into christian/jewish lore they could make it way more interesting. As it stands basically every powerful demon is just a murderer despite there being a long fucking list of horrible sins. Yeah murder is wrong but so is a lot of other shit. A lot of other shit could be considered worse than murder from a religious perspective. When the "big reveal" for a sinner is literally exactly the same every single time it gets boring. Alastor, Vox, Angel are all just different versions of the same sin and i am willing to bet we will see this again and again.

You could also add plot holes and bad writing on top. Vaggi is a waste of space for the most part as an example. Niffty is arguably a better character than her because at least she has traits other than "omg my girlfriend". Niffty likes bugs and cleaning and bdsm. Vaggi just likes charlie's box. Vaggi and adam have a lot in common.

I just dont like it when something I know has potential never gets to take full advantage of what it could be. My breakup with hunt showdown was painful because it was my favorite piece of media of all time and i had to sit and watch as it was dragged through the mud before i decided to just quit.

anyway. I am excited for season 3 and beyond. I hope they do more with it. I dont want to become a pure hate-watcher.
 
i know for me its because of wasted potential. i unironically really enjoy the show. but also it irks me how much missed opportunity there is.
I will say this show has significantly fewer problems than TADC. It at least is trying to tell a real story with a real plot rather than just being a series of self-therapy sessions by the tranny creator, then laughing in the audience's face that they dare care about some sort of larger, overarching narrative.
 
I will say this show has significantly fewer problems than TADC. It at least is trying to tell a real story with a real plot rather than just being a series of self-therapy sessions by the tranny creator, then laughing in the audience's face that they dare care about some sort of larger, overarching narrative.
I can agree with this. On the very rare occasion I try to watch a show I will get pissed off at it because of issues or characters. Somehow this show of all shows managed to break through.

I am not really a tv/movie guy but I make time for hazbin. Prolly doesnt mean much but it has my full attention. I even put my phone down.
 
For hazbin instead of leaning into how deep something like this could go they have to simplify it as to not offend people or whatever. If they leaned harder into christian/jewish lore they could make it way more interesting.
Seeing actual biblical figures like Abel and Saint Paul get portrayed as heckin' softbois got my goat. I can see Adam being a genocidal motherfucker for Lucifer essentially upending his entire species, but on the other hand, Jesus would love Charlie's redemption idea. Hell, his whole life was about it, not just because of his death and resurrection but of people like Paul the Apostle. Paul once persecuted Christians intensely since he saw it as a threat to Judaism, until he went through his own redemption arc (went on the road to Damascus, got blinded after hearing a resurrected Jesus, saved by a disciple named Ananias who had a divine revelation) and ended up martyred by Nero. Putting Jesus himself in your show is rather delicate, and I wouldn't expect more tact than South Park, but because there's actual risk and it involves unsexy research it'd never happen. What a waste.

I will say this show has significantly fewer problems than TADC. It at least is trying to tell a real story with a real plot rather than just being a series of self-therapy sessions by the tranny creator, then laughing in the audience's face that they dare care about some sort of larger, overarching narrative.
I'm of two minds about it? I get what you mean with "writing is going well *laughs*" but self-therapy and rugpulls are different kinds of dopamine chasing. It's inherently disrespectful to waste your audience's time and treat them like retards for giving a fuck. However, this is going to sound cagey but I don't think Hazbin wants you to care for the right reasons. It dangles keys in your face asking you not to notice that it's glittery cardboard. There's not a lot of thought put into either, so I just can't find one better than the other.
 
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Putting Jesus himself in your show is rather delicate, and I wouldn't expect more tact than South Park, but because there's actual risk and it involves unsexy research it'd never happen. What a waste.
I remember Legends of Tomorrow did a season-long arc about the Holy Lance/Spear of Destiny (reimagined as a reality-warping artifact), and even though the entire show was about traveling through time, they make up a new rule that translates to "We can't interfere with Jesus' life because of the way history could be affected. The Battle of the Somme, on the other hand, is fair game."
I'm of two minds about it? I get what you mean with "writing is going well *laughs*" but self-therapy and rugpulls are different kinds of dopamine chasing. It's inherently disrespectful to waste your audience's time and treat them like retards for giving a fuck. However, this is going to sound cagey but I don't think Hazbin wants you to care for the right reasons. It dangles keys in your face asking you not to notice that it's glittery cardboard. There's not a lot of thought put into either, so I just can't find one better than the other.
At the very least, Hazbin tries to take its worldbuilding seriously, as opposed to TADC dedicaing an entire episode to making fun of its audience for creaing fan theories about the setting.
 
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