r/fuckcars / Not Just Bikes / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

[Agares]

The issue is that it's easy to point out something's flaws but exponentially more difficult to propose a workable solution. Urbanists will occasionally succeed in the first point and then will always immediately faceplant through a plate glass window when it comes to the second.

Especially when your side's "solutions" are beheld to a certain ideology that cannot, under any circumstances, be questioned. Even when it causes crime waves.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

I used to (as an increasingly political teenager) wonder why we didn't just copy all of Europe's policies because they're so enlightened and obviously have everything figured out. Learning they die by the tens of thousands every Summer because they don't have air conditioning and, what's worse, they're actually smug about this completely preventable situation made me realize they're actually retards with little brother syndrome.

This has been touched on before—Jason once told a possibly anecdotal story about how Wal-Mart failed in Germany because they didn't understand German culture, and that may have been true. But it raised a few questions that they didn't answer.

Therefore, it should be expected that you can't translate European-style transit into the United States because of cultural incompatibility, and there's nothing wrong with that...and if there is something wrong with that it also means that some cultures are wrong...and if that's true then our white culture should not accept the inferior cultures of the third world.

Because of liberal intersectionality I guarantee that they will "well, cultures aren't superior, that is subjective" and then immediately turn around and say that American transit culture is bad.

Especially when your side's "solutions" are beheld to a certain ideology that cannot, under any circumstances, be questioned. Even when it causes crime waves.

There are plenty of lefty types who will welcome debates that aren't rigged in their favor if they're confident enough with their own conclusions. Some of these are rigged, like how nu-atheism preferred hot-headed young-earth creationists instead of theologians when it came to debates, but when it comes to urbanism debate is NEVER done.

We have lots of videos where transit advocates go up against normies to some rather disastrous showings even in blue-voting neighborhoods. There's also that video where the guy seethed while his opponent was talking, then made a rebuttal video after the fact.

Do you think that any of these guys could stand up to a few uncomfortable questions that routinely get ignored (trains running empty, apartment complexes in suburban areas, etc.) without flipping out and demanding that you should die?

Imagine taking advice on which countries are better to live in from a literal drug addict.

He has the same vibe who vapes cannabis juice regularly, same twitchy douchebag energy. He lies about literally everything else, how am I expecting to believe that he also isn't abusing kratom or other substances?

I disagree with it being exclusively about being visually pleasing. A 15 minute city at least in concept should not be a bughive any more than a city is by default. If you're going to force me and a bunch of people to live in dense clusters, I'd at least want to be able to get everything I need quickly by my own feet. My main issue is that urbanists want to do this while completely fucking over anyone in the suburbs and rural areas who drive. I think there are good ways to balance it, but most of these people just hate cars more than they give a shit about making cities good.

I don't think that "visually pleasing" is the goal since it's never consistent. We've had this sort of hypocrisy before, a 400m freeway corridor "divides the city" while a 400m railroad corridor doesn't. A bunch of stoplights hanging from wires is ugly but wires stretched across for streetcars isn't. This doesn't even get into the weird cope regarding stuff about bodegas and graffiti.

 

[Bitchy Babylonian Barber]

I don't think that "visually pleasing" is the goal since it's never consistent. We've had this sort of hypocrisy before, a 400m freeway corridor "divides the city" while a 400m railroad corridor doesn't. A bunch of stoplights hanging from wires is ugly but wires stretched across for streetcars isn't. This doesn't even get into the weird cope regarding stuff about bodegas and graffiti.

thats what I meant by 'visually pleasing'. It's visually pleasing for Excel nerds and stat-crunchers. 500 people in 250 cars is 'inefficient' but 500 people in 10 buses is 'pleasing' to the stat-cruncher. 500 people on a single train is orgasmic. The aesthetics- what one traditionally would see wouldn't change much but they'd proudly tout the 'automobile pollution down 90%' or 'car crashes lower than American average'. It's the most miserable kind of visually pleasing. It's numbers and stats. It's a bunch of clerks wet dreams.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

thats what I meant by 'visually pleasing'. It's visually pleasing for Excel nerds and stat-crunchers. 500 people in 250 cars is 'inefficient' but 500 people in 10 buses is 'pleasing' to the stat-cruncher. 500 people on a single train is orgasmic. The aesthetics- what one traditionally would see wouldn't change much but they'd proudly tout the 'automobile pollution down 90%' or 'car crashes lower than American average'. It's the most miserable kind of visually pleasing. It's numbers and stats. It's a bunch of clerks wet dreams.

Well, there is a "visually pleasing" element that I think they try to go for. The Breezewood picture is often used because of visual clutter, rather than "clean, neat" rowhouses or whatever. That of course breaks down whenever you actually go into it.

If you tried to ask me what an "attractive" city looked like I'd have a hard time. I've found places like Philadelphia, Manhattan, and New Orleans (the urban cores) to be a bit claustrophobic but they're also kind of disgusting, crowded, run-down, or any combination thereof.

City environments like beaches or trees or mountains do affect the aesthetics of the area (or deserts, there's something kind of calming about desert environments) but those aren't really part of the city themselves.

I like cool signage like neon (both "true" neon and "outline tube" neon), there's a chain in my part of the world called Taco Cabana that used to have full neon signs like so but in the late 2010s started replacing them with pink and white backlit ones. I'm also a sucker for old mercury-vapor fixtures too...but I realize that's all subjective.

At the end of the day, though, I'd rather have function over form. Go ahead and put parking lots in front of buildings--it means that just about anything is accessible. (I hate the fact that there are a few places near campus that are just about impossible to visit because of lack of parking). Go ahead and use endless strip malls, IF you can fill them with cool and unusual stores and restaurants. I'll even take aging roads and stoplights hanging on wires if you can guarantee that it's going to be clear of panhandlers and trash.

 

[The Grognard]

AFAIK, European statistics have a loose definition of a "heatwave death." It is enough that the heat was a contributing factor. Meanwhile in USA, heatstroke has to be the cause of death to be recorded as a death caused by hot weather.

This is specifically done as part of getting people convinced to support green politics. The technocrats who created those statistics see the public as cattle to be herded and they will happily exploit anything from forest fires caused by imported eucalyptus trees to crime waves caused by imported bomalian biomass as something that has to be seen as being caused by climate change and thus, the public must be convinced to support solar and EVs for their own good.

 

[FPTMIU]

Did you just call my children niggers?

Ah, thought it was random neighbourhood children doing it. Still, you should probably just tell them not to do that on the walls of the house and make them do it on the pathway or wherever else is easier to clean.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

Did you just call my children niggers?

They are if they deface brick like that.

 

[FPTMIU]

If you tried to ask me what an "attractive" city looked like I'd have a hard time.

The main issue with this question is that most urbanists will always pick the most touristic pedestrian areas and then smugly go "hmmmmm? You don't know THIS?"

This is a part of Istanbul

and so is this


The average urbanist will just pretend all of istanbul is like the top image to smugly win the argument.

 

[FILTH Tourist]

The main issue with this question is that most urbanists will always pick the most touristic pedestrian areas and then smugly go "hmmmmm? You don't know THIS?"

This is a part of Istanbul
View attachment 8255567
and so is this
View attachment 8255568

The average urbanist will just pretend all of istanbul is like the top image to smugly win the argument.

The more lived in parts of a city can be charming if it is safe. Small quiet stores, food stalls selling shit that only locals would eat, questionable open air meat markets, small shrine tucked in-between old apartment buildings.

Still would prefer the suburbs every day of the week though, but there is a middle ground between glitzy tourist trap that the urbanists gush about and the ghetto that their policies create.

 

[Baraka Obama]

Ah, thought it was random neighbourhood children doing it. Still, you should probably just tell them not to do that on the walls of the house and make them do it on the pathway or wherever else is easier to clean.

You try telling a toddler to do literally anything.

 

[FPTMIU]

You try telling a toddler to do literally anything.

Well, touché. A 23 year old without a child is probably not gonna give the best parenting advice

 

[The Jewel of the Nile]

A little something for @quaawaa !
So I was browsing hackernews and this came to my attention

HN link article
Uh oh, euro bros??
The comments are pure gold and we're starting off strong with the obvious...



Oh look, yet another entitled asshole that moved to Europe and is now telling locals how they're supposed to live

Europe has fallen...

 

[Kyria the Great]

A little something for @quaawaa !
So I was browsing hackernews and this came to my attention
View attachment 8256223
HN link article
Uh oh, euro bros??
The comments are pure gold and we're starting off strong with the obvious...
View attachment 8256231

View attachment 8256234
Oh look, yet another entitled asshole that moved to Europe and is now telling locals how they're supposed to live
View attachment 8256242
Europe has fallen...

I'm always of the notion as long as a nation isn't doing a China and flooding deliberately cheap cars that's being sustained by endless government subsides, it's fair game. America lost huge domestic dominance due to arrogance that Japanese and eventually Korean reliability filled the gap to the point we almost never see an American sedan anymore.

Its always the double edged sword of protectionist policies as while it can defend your industry, it can make them very weak once outside forces compete with them. So if American style vehicles are a huge winner, then clearly they're serving an unfulfilled need to the Euro market. The customer is never wrong in taste and denying it will be only folly to European manufacturers and the various states.

 

[The Thinking Abacus]

A little something for @quaawaa !
So I was browsing hackernews and this came to my attention
View attachment 8256223
HN link article
Uh oh, euro bros??
The comments are pure gold and we're starting off strong with the obvious...
View attachment 8256231

View attachment 8256234
Oh look, yet another entitled asshole that moved to Europe and is now telling locals how they're supposed to live
View attachment 8256242
Europe has fallen...

I read that thread when it was posted and just about everyone in there is acting like a /r/fuckcars retard. Total urbanist death.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

The main issue with this question is that most urbanists will always pick the most touristic pedestrian areas and then smugly go "hmmmmm? You don't know THIS?"

When comparing cities it's always going to be cities as a whole. I posted some extremely unflattering views of Washington DC a few posts ago but yet the flip side is a rather stately looking capital square area with wide boulevards and marble buildings, and that's what a lot of Americans think of Washington DC. You can definitely cherry-pick any city, and despite rhetoric everyone knows this. Memphis--the coolest Bass Pro Shops ever or a bunch of scary, run-down neighborhoods? Both.

But even when it comes to the "best" parts that's a big question too. North Dallas had a somewhat futuristic aesthetic for years (not quite as much now, but it's where Robocop was filmed) partially thanks to its freeways, and I thought that was cool...but it's also just as disingenuous as using a shopping street. I may as well as use a picture of a real shopping mall.

Oh look, yet another entitled asshole that moved to Europe and is now telling locals how they're supposed to live

If he hates American cars so much, why not move to India or Africa?

Funny we never see these people sperging about American roads and cars moving to India or Africa.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

You try telling a toddler to do literally anything.

Have you tried beating them?

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

never see an American sedan anymore.

Double post but fuck it. You will not see American sedans probably ever again.

As of 2025 there are precisely two American cars: the Corvette and the Mustang.

Literally every single other model being produced by every American auto manufacturer is either a crossover, SUV, van, or truck.

 

[The ATF Disliked That]

America used to have walkable cities/towns that served both cars and walking.
Photo from Architectural Digest

 

[Dante Alighieri]

Literally every single other model being produced by every American auto manufacturer is either a crossover, SUV, van, or truck.

And they're so fucking expensive.

 

[Gurney Halleck]

Double post but fuck it. You will not see American sedans probably ever again.

As of 2025 there are precisely two American cars: the Corvette and the Mustang.

Literally every single other model being produced by every American auto manufacturer is either a crossover, SUV, van, or truck.

There's a few more, the CT5-V is still a thing and the gas-powered four-door Dodge Charger is coming back for now after the embarrassing flop that was the two-door EV. There'll be a few going forward but they largely will be for more niche audiences since the days of the big three trying to compete with general sedans are gone. Though ironically considering your pfp if you count the Tesla Model 3 as a sedan it's basically the last stand of the common American sedan.