Syikeblade
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
As a mod team, we’ve been discussing the topic of lesbian trans men and how to best support our community. Previously, we chose to ban discussions about these identities due to an unprecedented influx of in-fighting that became overwhelming to manage as a team of volunteers. We know it wasn't a perfect solution, but we needed a break.
We've made considerable efforts to expand our team to better support our community. With more volunteers contributing their time, we have increased bandwidth to address more difficult topics. We're committed to promoting inclusivity and refining our rules as we grow, and we believe this update will serve as a meaningful reflection of that.
Transmasc lesbians deserve to feel welcome to share their experiences with gender and sexuality in this space, no holds barred. We each have unique relationships with our own gender identity and sexuality—it is a personal journey—and we affirm that diversity is an asset to our community.
Generalizations and debates on this matter will not be tolerated.
This includes saying or implying that all trans men share history with lesbians OR that you cannot be a trans man and a lesbian. Neither of these statements are universal and have no place in this space. Speak only to your own experience. Rule #1.
There is no reason for anyone to belittle or berate another individual because of how they identify. You do not need to understand it, but we expect you to respect it as others discuss their own identities and experiences. We cannot emphasize this enough.
We anticipate that you may have some questions, so here are a few answers that we hope may help address your concerns.
Q: Why wasn’t this topic unbanned sooner? A: As alluded to above, we haven't had the capacity to manage certain topics. We know it may be disappointing, but we've worked hard to recruit more hands and voices to support this community so that we can make informed updates like this. We appreciate your patience as we continue to develop our rules.
Q: If trans men are men, then why are lesbian trans men allowed here? A: Gender and sexuality are complex for many of us. Being able to exist as ourselves is more accessible than ever, which means more exploration and introspection for all. We support everyone's ability to define and discuss their own experiences.
Q: Doesn’t lesbian mean women loving women? A: Words evolve, experiences differ, and most importantly, we define our labels—our labels don't define us.
We are working on making adjustments to our Wiki to elaborate further on these topics and our stances. We will make another announcement when those updates are finalized!
If you have any further comments, questions, or concerns, please direct them to our Modmail.
We appreciate your patience, cooperation, and understanding.
We've made considerable efforts to expand our team to better support our community. With more volunteers contributing their time, we have increased bandwidth to address more difficult topics. We're committed to promoting inclusivity and refining our rules as we grow, and we believe this update will serve as a meaningful reflection of that.
Transmasc lesbians deserve to feel welcome to share their experiences with gender and sexuality in this space, no holds barred. We each have unique relationships with our own gender identity and sexuality—it is a personal journey—and we affirm that diversity is an asset to our community.
Generalizations and debates on this matter will not be tolerated.
This includes saying or implying that all trans men share history with lesbians OR that you cannot be a trans man and a lesbian. Neither of these statements are universal and have no place in this space. Speak only to your own experience. Rule #1.
There is no reason for anyone to belittle or berate another individual because of how they identify. You do not need to understand it, but we expect you to respect it as others discuss their own identities and experiences. We cannot emphasize this enough.
We anticipate that you may have some questions, so here are a few answers that we hope may help address your concerns.
Q: Why wasn’t this topic unbanned sooner? A: As alluded to above, we haven't had the capacity to manage certain topics. We know it may be disappointing, but we've worked hard to recruit more hands and voices to support this community so that we can make informed updates like this. We appreciate your patience as we continue to develop our rules.
Q: If trans men are men, then why are lesbian trans men allowed here? A: Gender and sexuality are complex for many of us. Being able to exist as ourselves is more accessible than ever, which means more exploration and introspection for all. We support everyone's ability to define and discuss their own experiences.
Q: Doesn’t lesbian mean women loving women? A: Words evolve, experiences differ, and most importantly, we define our labels—our labels don't define us.
We are working on making adjustments to our Wiki to elaborate further on these topics and our stances. We will make another announcement when those updates are finalized!
If you have any further comments, questions, or concerns, please direct them to our Modmail.
We appreciate your patience, cooperation, and understanding.
Apparently they made a post for lesbian pooner's so they won't be banned again.
Also many of the comments are just amazing
Propyl_People_Ether- 10+ yrs T [score hidden] 4 hours ago
I applaud this, thank you for your work to bring this improvement to the community!
Something else I've been wanting to bring up, from the rules:
I think our ability to respond to regressive and transphobic ideas would be improved by allowing discussion of the history of Bl@nchardism.
What I've been seeing recently is that the ideas involved are unfortunately very mainstream in other online spaces, & young people are being exposed to them elsewhere and coming in here asking questions, terrified that their gender is a fetish and that they're inherently dangerous to children. Even when they're kids themselves.
They don't know the names or the acronyms but they're being fed these toxic concepts and it seems like a really awful environment to grow up in.
A month or two ago I ran into one of these posts, tried to write up a "no, and here's where that idea came from and why the guy who came up with it is discredited" response, and kept hitting the censor filter.
I think, in the same light, it would be great to have an explicit ban on defense of these regressive ideas, but be allowed to educate on where they came from and why they aren't well regarded. It would help the community stay safer.
evergreengoth [score hidden] 2 hours ago
They're is a book whose title is also banned in this sub (I'm not sure if mods are addressing it, but the message attached to it when you type it seems to be a very different message from this post, so I'm hoping they un-ban it soon) that a lot of people recommend, though i haven't read it yet myself. The author is Leslie Feinberg.
[–]Propyl_People_Ether- 10+ yrs T [score hidden] 2 hours ago
Pinging @fatpikachuonly over here to make sure this gets added to their cleanup list.
[–]butch-bear [score hidden] 2 hours ago
that book is not really about lesbian tmen, leslie hirself was always somewhere in the middle, although zhe lived hir life as a man for a good while, took testosterone, and had a breast reduction (probably because top surgery wasn't really an option for hir whenever zhe got hir chest operated on). maybe some of the side characters who were described to be both butches and living as men (binding, on t) could count, i don't know. it's more about lesbian gender diversity in general, and how they come in all shapes and forms, including trans women (who are too often forgotten about or even more excluded than us butch ftms and the like).
however as someone who personally can't separate my butch lesbianism from my own understanding of my transness, and who also resonates with the desire to transition and pass as much as possible as a man, and is most comfortable with masculine identifiers (guy, dude, man, etc) & calls himself a man and guy often, it is a book that can certainly "open up" one's mind about this topic and maybe reveal something internal. people give me so much shit about feeling the way i do about my gender and sexuality, to the point where i was banned from the butch lesb sub after making a post venting about transphobia in the community and my personal gender identity. i am glad this sub is more normal about this topic.
[–]anemisto- old and tired [score hidden] 2 hours ago
Having learned this was banned makes me seriously disappointed in this sub. Yes, I get that a tiny mod team can't deal, but that's banning discussion of something hugely significant to people who've identified as trans more than, I don't know, fifteen years and I say this as someone who never identified as a lesbian.
AdWinter4333- 35, mid transition, he/him/they (European) [score hidden] 56 minutes ago
Hi there, unfortunately I do not really have any good recommendations for you, but I can share my experience as a longtime lesbian mid transition. For me personally, I cannot just "let go" of this butch identity that has given me so much over the past decade or so. I am not sure if I would call myself a lesbian openly, also because I do not feel like having a discussion with anyone about it. But I do feel like my love for and attraction to women is very queer and my relationships have a root in lesbian relationships. Calling myself straight, just because I am physically transitioning feels off to me. I do not mind being perceived as in a hetero sexual relationship by the outside world, but for me it is very important that my partner and my near and dear know I am gay, sapphic, queer. I am a butch lesbian at heart and also a man. Saying that out loud feels very empowering and true and I wish more people would just... let this exist.
With all due respect for the longterm mods and the tough decisions they had to make (believe me, this was never out of ill will! And will never throw them under the bus for doing what they had to do) I am very happy we have the chance to create more space for my identity here on the sub again.
Ironically, my very slight bisexual tendencies also feel gay. I guess I was just never meant to be straight, lol.
jellybeanbonanza [score hidden] 21 minutes ago
"Transmasc lesbian" used to annoy me, because, if trans men could be lesbians, what was stopping cis men and AMAB nbs from defining themselves as lesbians? In fact, I knew several who did and it felt like stolen valor to me.
But now that I identify as a mostly gay man - while most of the world perceives me as female - I think I have a little more sympathy for the AMAB lesbian experience, and, by extention, the transmasc lesbian experience.
And, as a matter of personal experience, I've had sex with AFAB nbs that just. . . felt. . lesbian. We discussed it. I'm not a woman and you're not a woman, so is it invalidating to call that lesbian sex? Neither of us felt invalidated by it. And it seemed to accurately describe what has happened. Sexuality is strange.
Thanks, moderation team for opening this up. I'm psyched to hear from the the transmasc lesbians!
I applaud this, thank you for your work to bring this improvement to the community!
Something else I've been wanting to bring up, from the rules:
I think our ability to respond to regressive and transphobic ideas would be improved by allowing discussion of the history of Bl@nchardism.
What I've been seeing recently is that the ideas involved are unfortunately very mainstream in other online spaces, & young people are being exposed to them elsewhere and coming in here asking questions, terrified that their gender is a fetish and that they're inherently dangerous to children. Even when they're kids themselves.
They don't know the names or the acronyms but they're being fed these toxic concepts and it seems like a really awful environment to grow up in.
A month or two ago I ran into one of these posts, tried to write up a "no, and here's where that idea came from and why the guy who came up with it is discredited" response, and kept hitting the censor filter.
I think, in the same light, it would be great to have an explicit ban on defense of these regressive ideas, but be allowed to educate on where they came from and why they aren't well regarded. It would help the community stay safer.
evergreengoth [score hidden] 2 hours ago
They're is a book whose title is also banned in this sub (I'm not sure if mods are addressing it, but the message attached to it when you type it seems to be a very different message from this post, so I'm hoping they un-ban it soon) that a lot of people recommend, though i haven't read it yet myself. The author is Leslie Feinberg.
[–]Propyl_People_Ether- 10+ yrs T [score hidden] 2 hours ago
Pinging @fatpikachuonly over here to make sure this gets added to their cleanup list.
[–]butch-bear [score hidden] 2 hours ago
that book is not really about lesbian tmen, leslie hirself was always somewhere in the middle, although zhe lived hir life as a man for a good while, took testosterone, and had a breast reduction (probably because top surgery wasn't really an option for hir whenever zhe got hir chest operated on). maybe some of the side characters who were described to be both butches and living as men (binding, on t) could count, i don't know. it's more about lesbian gender diversity in general, and how they come in all shapes and forms, including trans women (who are too often forgotten about or even more excluded than us butch ftms and the like).
however as someone who personally can't separate my butch lesbianism from my own understanding of my transness, and who also resonates with the desire to transition and pass as much as possible as a man, and is most comfortable with masculine identifiers (guy, dude, man, etc) & calls himself a man and guy often, it is a book that can certainly "open up" one's mind about this topic and maybe reveal something internal. people give me so much shit about feeling the way i do about my gender and sexuality, to the point where i was banned from the butch lesb sub after making a post venting about transphobia in the community and my personal gender identity. i am glad this sub is more normal about this topic.
[–]anemisto- old and tired [score hidden] 2 hours ago
Having learned this was banned makes me seriously disappointed in this sub. Yes, I get that a tiny mod team can't deal, but that's banning discussion of something hugely significant to people who've identified as trans more than, I don't know, fifteen years and I say this as someone who never identified as a lesbian.
AdWinter4333- 35, mid transition, he/him/they (European) [score hidden] 56 minutes ago
Hi there, unfortunately I do not really have any good recommendations for you, but I can share my experience as a longtime lesbian mid transition. For me personally, I cannot just "let go" of this butch identity that has given me so much over the past decade or so. I am not sure if I would call myself a lesbian openly, also because I do not feel like having a discussion with anyone about it. But I do feel like my love for and attraction to women is very queer and my relationships have a root in lesbian relationships. Calling myself straight, just because I am physically transitioning feels off to me. I do not mind being perceived as in a hetero sexual relationship by the outside world, but for me it is very important that my partner and my near and dear know I am gay, sapphic, queer. I am a butch lesbian at heart and also a man. Saying that out loud feels very empowering and true and I wish more people would just... let this exist.
With all due respect for the longterm mods and the tough decisions they had to make (believe me, this was never out of ill will! And will never throw them under the bus for doing what they had to do) I am very happy we have the chance to create more space for my identity here on the sub again.
Ironically, my very slight bisexual tendencies also feel gay. I guess I was just never meant to be straight, lol.
jellybeanbonanza [score hidden] 21 minutes ago
"Transmasc lesbian" used to annoy me, because, if trans men could be lesbians, what was stopping cis men and AMAB nbs from defining themselves as lesbians? In fact, I knew several who did and it felt like stolen valor to me.
But now that I identify as a mostly gay man - while most of the world perceives me as female - I think I have a little more sympathy for the AMAB lesbian experience, and, by extention, the transmasc lesbian experience.
And, as a matter of personal experience, I've had sex with AFAB nbs that just. . . felt. . lesbian. We discussed it. I'm not a woman and you're not a woman, so is it invalidating to call that lesbian sex? Neither of us felt invalidated by it. And it seemed to accurately describe what has happened. Sexuality is strange.
Thanks, moderation team for opening this up. I'm psyched to hear from the the transmasc lesbians!
Their insanity never ends.
Archive Link
just be kind I guess. 
" to most Christians, especially rainbow protestants, and they'll be like "awwwe well, maybe cutting off your dick is just God's plan for you after all 
