Lolbertarian Cringe - A place to post libertarians saying crazy shit

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Define aggression? You think sales tax is aggression when to literally anyone else it is an annoyance at BEST.

And on that. You cannot change aggression. It simply is. It is human nature to be aggressive. Your ethics don't matter in real life political discussion. Countries invade eachother. Trade wars happen. Survival of the fittest motherfucker. What matters is that you make it so your side wins. You cannot change the game of life. Merely adapt.
By the way, you've generously explained to me earlier how the world works, so I'll return the favor and explain to you how arguments work

When you assert "survival of the fittest" or that "aggression just is", what you're doing is describing things, pointing at how things happen. When you start talking about what's right or better or should happen, that's prescribing things. That's the difference between what is and what ought to be, between physics and ethics. You keep jumping between the two without noticing it. You describe things, like the existence of trade wars, and then talk as if describing them made them right. Saying "that's how it is" doesn't answer the question "should it be that way?"
 
By the way, you've generously explained to me earlier how the world works, so I'll return the favor and explain to you how arguments work

When you assert "survival of the fittest" or that "aggression just is", what you're doing is describing things, pointing at how things happen. When you start talking about what's right or better or should happen, that's prescribing things. That's the difference between what is and what ought to be, between physics and ethics. You keep jumping between the two without noticing it. You describe things, like the existence of trade wars, and then talk as if describing them made them right. Saying "that's how it is" doesn't answer the question "should it be that way?"
What ought to be is wishful thinking, because both of us want very different things. You want every man to be his own castle. You wish to overturn the world order. I wish for life to get a little cheaper. Most people just want to wake up, go to work, then fuck off once they get off work. Anarchy kinda fucks that up. I'm fine with the system as is. You are discontent because the German government is shit. If you left, your opinions might change.
 
It's interesting to me how critics of Libertarians, or generally just people who aren't Libertarian but inquire into it, end up turning whatever discussion they're heaving into something purely speculative, and therefore tangential to Libertarianism.
I'm not that much of a critic of Libertarianism, i'm just trying to work out how they would expect their society to play out. Open borders as a concept is very one-sided in first world nations, and as a citizen in one I don't want my heritage thrown by the wayside to try out some utopian economic system.
 
What ought to be is wishful thinking, because both of us want very different things. You want every man to be his own castle. You wish to overturn the world order. I wish for life to get a little cheaper. Most people just want to wake up, go to work, then fuck off once they get off work. Anarchy kinda fucks that up. I'm fine with the system as is. You are discontent because the German government is shit. If you left, your opinions might change.
What ought to be is the reason we can call murder and theft wrong instead of just "things that happen". You've moved on from "is" to "I like" and still haven't touched the argument.

Open borders as a concept
not a libertarian position btw, don't worry. Under libertarian property norms, nobody has a right to enter someone's land without their consent.
 
This is largely why you waste your time preaching edicts and ethics to random strangers online instead of engaging in actions that could meaningfully create the society or world you desire. Your fixation on abstract individualism, which explains your actions, blinds you to the reality that the world changes through collective action, not through moral grandstanding on a gossip forum about how much of a "libertarian" you allegedly are.
Can you not egg him on on this particular matter please? See the below quote. I take him arguing on KF over him doing real "action" in real life. Since his methods for his ideal society is this:

Non-violence is not a libertarian principle.
Non-aggression simply means that initiating a conflict is not legitimate.
Accordingly, violence against aggressors is A-OK.
The strategy I personally envision for achieving a free society consists of peaceful activism alongside targeted sabotage and asymmetrical warfare.
Let's not.
 
What ought to be is the reason we can call murder and theft wrong instead of just "things that happen". You've moved on from "is" to "I like" and still haven't touched the argument.
Word play bullshit. I gave you your arguments retard. Now you're just being pedantic.
not a libertarian position btw, don't worry. Under libertarian property norms, nobody has a right to enter someone's land without their consent.
Yes it is retard. You love your human chattel. The government had to ban it. There was no free market solution.
Can you not egg him on on this particular matter please? See the below quote. I take him arguing on KF over him doing real "action" in real life. Since his methods for his ideal society is this:


Let's not.
Truly the little anarchist. Quite the anti social person. Needs medication.
 
How would a public school even work without a state? It would be either homeschooling or church schooling.
In any event, homeschooling and church schooling are not a replacement for higher education. You're not going to get engineers, lawyers, or doctors just from those things alone.

Even in our society, they are highly regulated. History has shown that without standards, schools could just teach kids anything so they couldn't be productive members of society. Meritocracy is important for that reason. But even then, the "non-state" argument from these people is ridiculous on its face.

Every society requires some level of bureaucracy to manage large groups of people. Corporations, businesses, or any large-scale organization operate the same way to ensure people actually work and do what they're supposed to do. This is just an observable fact of life. Treating the state, or any human organization really, as some kind of abstraction, instead of a real human relationship developed as a tool from centuries of experience of humanity struggling against its own social conditions, is how a lot of anarchists and libertarians reach a lot of their retarded conclusions about life and society in general.

Libertarians can't even make viable politics, but they want to lecture you about how society operates and how it ought to be. It's laughable, really.
Yes it is retard. You love your human chattel. The government had to ban it. There was no free market solution.
If the Union Army had just told the South to stop using slaves because libertarian philosophy says its unethical, they surely would have done so. If the kulaks had simply told their fellow farmers that political absenteeism is ethical and that political power is unethical, surely the Soviets would have never starved them to death. Hell, Franco should have just invited the CNT-FAI over for tea and traded with them; they would have just stopped killing Catholic priests! Surely, the intellectual genius of this man is unparalleled by no other. If Christ had simply told the Romans to live and act according to libertarian beliefs, they certainly would have never nailed him to a cross.

Surely the Melians failed because they simply could not persuade the Athenians on the practical application of libertarian ethics.
I'm not that much of a critic of Libertarianism, i'm just trying to work out how they would expect their society to play out. Open borders as a concept is very one-sided in first world nations, and as a citizen in one I don't want my heritage thrown by the wayside to try out some utopian economic system.
Asking libertarians to think systematically is like trying to teach a cat how fly an airplane. They can't even create a theory on how to reach their own society because they're more interested in being atomized individuals above all else. They're just cattle for the slaughterhouse.
Can you not egg him on on this particular matter please? See the below quote. I take him arguing on KF over him doing real "action" in real life. Since his methods for his ideal society is this:
I can't even egg the guy on. When you pressure him, he ignores you. It's typical of how he argues. Libertarians only know how to run away from problems because they don't have any ability to solve them. That's why he preaches about the evils of political power and considers absenteeism ethical. Cowardice is one of their primary virtues, and they couldn't be so egocentric without it. He's never going to do anything of note, like all libertarians, because they can't do anything but posture.
 
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If the Union Army had just told the South to stop using slaves because libertarian philosophy says its unethical, they surely would have done so. If the kulaks had simply told their fellow farmers that political absenteeism is ethical and that political power is unethical, surely the Soviets would have never starved them to death. Hell, Franco should have just invited the CNT-FAI over for tea and traded with them; they would have just stopped killing Catholic priests! Surely, the intellectual genius of this man is unparalleled by no other. If Christ had simply told the Romans to live and act according to libertarian beliefs, they certainly would have never nailed him to a cross.

Surely the Melians failed because they simply could not persuade the Athenians on the practical application of libertarian ethics
Excellent points. At the end of the day, the market takes the easy way out. Without regulations, you would still have slavery, lead in paint, and no safety standards. Because that is cheaper and easier in a pure free market. Morally I want a state to protect against such abuses. Libertarianism offers none of that. Only profit motive.
 
A chorus singing to itself, alternating between "description is justification" and "description is justification + insults". No arguments, just loyalty-signaling rituals. It's behavior I'd expect to see on Reddit, but not here. "It exists, therefore it's right" is Stockholm syndrome, not philosophy.
 
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Lolbergs are to the right what anarchists are to the left - the special kind of retards everyone is embarrassed to be associated with.

Anarchists go "let's tear down society" and are then shocked when warlords take over.

Lolbergs go "let's create a power vacuum" and then are surprised when someone fills it.

They are both retarded stupid because they refuse to acknowledge the reality of how humans think and behave.
They're the same, it's just that lolberts spent more time trying to figure out how to make a society beyond semi-agrarian crack dens work.
So far, society is gonna work on signing contracts all day for every interaction with anyone else.
 
not a libertarian position btw, don't worry. Under libertarian property norms, nobody has a right to enter someone's land without their consent.
And the obvious answer to that conundrum is "you and what army", because if the whole country is atomized patches of land, each one a law unto itself, who is going to come to your aid if a foreign, non-lolberg force, decides to take what is yours?

See, the lunacy here is that you believe "norms" and "rights" are divinely ordained, instead of something a society collectively maintains, and oftentimes, coerces individuals to uphold, and foreign entities to respect.

Now, you may argue that neighbors and volunteers would come to your aid, and then they'd get squashed like bugs by an organized military before they managed to vote on their next course of action.
 
Libertardians don't have a shred of humanity with in them.
Lolbert.png
 
And the obvious answer to that conundrum is "you and what army", because if the whole country is atomized patches of land, each one a law unto itself, who is going to come to your aid if a foreign, non-lolberg force, decides to take what is yours?

See, the lunacy here is that you believe "norms" and "rights" are divinely ordained, instead of something a society collectively maintains, and oftentimes, coerces individuals to uphold, and foreign entities to respect.

Now, you may argue that neighbors and volunteers would come to your aid, and then they'd get squashed like bugs by an organized military before they managed to vote on their next course of action.
>Inb4 private military corporations

But yeah. Someone will eventually invade that is not libertarian, thinks your coke snorting ways are degenerate, and stomp you out with his army. What defense do you actually have against a proper military? None.
 
>humans think and behave this way
Observation isn't justification. Describing fear and domination does not explain why they should rule.

>you and what army
The same one every people have ever had, voluntary association. Coercion doesn't create defense, it destroys defense. States lose wars too.

>rights are collectively maintained
Then they aren't rights, then they're just permissions from whoever holds the whip.

>without regulation you'd have slavery and poison
Well, we had both with regulation. Markets correct by withdrawal and reputation, states correct by body count.

>libertarians have no humanity
Compassion without consent is just forced charity. It's moral vanity enforced at gunpoint.

If coercion against peaceful people is your answer to every problem, show one case where it solved abuse without creating a greater one.
 
>humans think and behave this way
Observation isn't justification. Describing fear and domination does not explain why they should rule.

>you and what army
The same one every people have ever had, voluntary association. Coercion doesn't create defense, it destroys defense. States lose wars too.

>rights are collectively maintained
Then they aren't rights, then they're just permissions from whoever holds the whip.

>without regulation you'd have slavery and poison
Well, we had both with regulation. Markets correct by withdrawal and reputation, states correct by body count.

>libertarians have no humanity
Compassion without consent is just forced charity. It's moral vanity enforced at gunpoint.

If coercion against peaceful people is your answer to every problem, show one case where it solved abuse without creating a greater one.
not quoting whoever you are responding to is bitch behavior. if you are just making a strawman to argue against in a thread highlighting cringy libertarian moments i applaud your dedication to remain on topic
 
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