Individuality is an illusion. We are all part of an interconnected whole.

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Super Mario Brothers

kiwifarms.net
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Jan 3, 2025
I've been thinking on the ethics of self harm and suicide and have been thinking about how wider society is leaning more towards a pro-suicide mentality. The thought is usually something along this line:

1. It doesn't hurt anyone else
2. You can do whatever you want with your body.

The counterargument to suicide is something along this:

1. It hurts yourself.
2. It inevitably hurts other people.

Although most people are anti-suicide, there's definitely a pro-suicide mentality that's starting to arise. There's a number of factors but the one thing is that society doesn't think of itself like a family unit. Instead, people are taught to think of themselves as autonomous units that can do whatever they wish without affecting the wider whole of society.

Like how man eventually falls into sin after eating the fruit of the tree, man falls more and more away from the traditions and structure that was originally there, and instead become more atomized.

I like to think of bananas as another example of this. Why bananas? Well, because:

1. Bananas are mostly imported from countries in central America, as opposed to being locally grown.*
2. Bananas use cheap labor to be able to be affordable in grocery stores.
3. People don't need bananas to live. There are other fruits that provide the same nutrition that bananas have.
*I was going to say "bananas aren't grown in the US" but they apparently are in Florida and Hawaii. Most are imported so the point still mostly stands.

But what happens if you tell an American that bananas would be more expensive even if it meant paying laborers an affordable wage?

They'll basically think you're ridiculous for trying to take away their bananas.

"I don't care about that. I just want my bananas."

Consooming bananas is all that matters to them.

Of course, most people use people's ignorance of where their food comes from to their advantage. But I still get surprised when people admit they know what is happening, and they don't care. Like a weird, collective thing where everyone is out for themselves. The individual person is all that matters.

Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but they are almost entirely a few minor lone people that don't think like this but are overrun by the hedonistic whole, or communities that are already branched off from wider society (and are almost always religious in nature.)

Maybe there was a time in human history where people were more atomized, but I can't think of one. Even during other times in capitalist America, people still could have a family or a local church to fall back on. This doesn't really happen anymore. Even social services are very corporatized.

Anyway point is that recent history has shown a trend where people are taught to act like children where the world revolves around them, and it's probably going to get worse for future generations.
 
If you drink enough cough medicine you can feel it but it's possible this is due to the dxm causing temporary brain damage and not proof that we are all one.
 
We are ants who occasionally fancy our individual selves of being able to peacefully occupy the spaces between warring colonies, nests, and mud tubes.
 
The very fact that you posted a thread presupposes the opposite of your claim. You chose, you typed, you submitted. Society did not act, you did. Only individuals act, only individuals choose, suffer, or benefit. "Society" is not an actor, it is a shorthand for many individuals. To treat the abstraction as the concrete is to erase the very condition that makes action, conflict, and ethics possible. To even speak of action, one must presuppose distinct actors. Without individuals, there is no action to attribute to "society". That refutes your "illusion" claim right away.
Either way, absolutely nothing in your post follows from the premise that individuality is an illusion.

first and foremost "hurts" the actor himself, which is a prudential matter. Ethics arises only when actions create conflict over rivalrous goods. Ending your own life is not an invasion of the body or property of another. It may be tragic or foolish, but it is not an ethical breach.
It inevitably hurts other people.
smuggles in the idea that others have a property share in your body. But to assert that is to presuppose self-ownership in your own case while denying it in another's, and that is contradictory.

reduces to the same move. "Because trade has global interdependencies, the consumer is implicated in the labor of strangers". But this is already resolved by ownership and trade. If bananas are produced by voluntary exchange, no conflict exists. If they are produced by coercion, then the coercion (and not the fact that someone later eats the fruit) is the crime. To blame the eater is to treat the consumer as partial property of "the whole".

The family metaphor for society is as illusory as the "we are the government" myth. Families are concrete relationships of individuals with names, wills, and boundaries. "Society" has no such unity.

Ethics requires drawing boundaries of ownership to avoid conflict. If you erase boundaries for the sake of some mystical "whole", you erase the basics of ethics, so all you have left is arbitrary decrees.
 
Have they been putting something in the water lately? 'Cause there sure seem to be a lot of these Deep Thoughts threads cropping up lately wherein a faggoty OP expounds upon a point that has been brought up and refuted billions of times as if it was deep and profound.
And no, that is not the normal state of affairs for DT, despite how much I make fun of it and the greater Thunderdome for its gaiety.
 
If you drink enough cough medicine you can feel it but it's possible this is due to the dxm causing temporary brain damage and not proof that we are all one.
If you have epilepsy, you can also get very frequent episodes of déjà vu. It's more logical to think of this as the brain breaking down and misfiring, but if you've ever had very strong déjà vu it's hard to shake the sense that there's some truth to what you saw.
 
If you drink enough cough medicine you can feel it but it's possible this is due to the dxm causing temporary brain damage and not proof that we are all one.
Is there a source on this or is this completely made up? Either way I started having these thoughts before I started using dxm to sleep.

I'll answer the other questions later.
 
Suicide absolutely does hurt other people. Won’t PL about how but I am keenly aware of this.
I also understand that sometimes people hit rock bottom, and that it can be an act of despair. Sometimes it’s an act of spite and cruelty as well. It’s a difficult subject to deal with .
The way cultures deal with suicide is different too. Eastern more communal cultures tend not to see it so badly as western individualism type cultures.
 
If you have epilepsy, you can also get very frequent episodes of déjà vu. It's more logical to think of this as the brain breaking down and misfiring, but if you've ever had very strong déjà vu it's hard to shake the sense that there's some truth to what you saw.
I hate the feel of deja vu because for several years it was strongly associated with an impending seizure, which are really, really, really unpleasant and embarrassing. Even now that it's controlled with medication, it still gives me sudden pangs of anxiety.
 
Suicide of course is an act of community.

-It males Allah happy.
-It makes your fellow religion of peace adherents happy.
-You get 72 virgins in totally real jewish magic skyland.
-infidels are blown up.

So the only non communal partis the72 unproven virgins.
 
The source? It's a pretty common experience on large amounts of dxm, I myself have experienced it. The source for my experience is myself. The source for other peoples experience is posted wherever people post about this kind of thing, possibly tumblr in 2014.
I'll probably disregard it then.
Have they been putting something in the water lately? 'Cause there sure seem to be a lot of these Deep Thoughts threads cropping up lately wherein a faggoty OP expounds upon a point that has been brought up and refuted billions of times as if it was deep and profound.
And no, that is not the normal state of affairs for DT, despite how much I make fun of it and the greater Thunderdome for its gaiety.
Never said this was completely original.
first and foremost "hurts" the actor himself, which is a prudential matter. Ethics arises only when actions create conflict over rivalrous goods. Ending your own life is not an invasion of the body or property of another. It may be tragic or foolish, but it is not an ethical breach.
smuggles in the idea that others have a property share in your body. But to assert that is to presuppose self-ownership in your own case while denying it in another's, and that is contradictory.
Most people have an ethical code against anyone committing suicide. The only explanation I can think of if everyone is connected in some way.
reduces to the same move. "Because trade has global interdependencies, the consumer is implicated in the labor of strangers". But this is already resolved by ownership and trade. If bananas are produced by voluntary exchange, no conflict exists. If they are produced by coercion, then the coercion (and not the fact that someone later eats the fruit) is the crime. To blame the eater is to treat the consumer as partial property of "the whole".
This has nothing to do with voluntary associations, but attitudes.
Ethics requires drawing boundaries of ownership to avoid conflict. If you erase boundaries for the sake of some mystical "whole", you erase the basics of ethics, so all you have left is arbitrary decrees.
There was always a whole, it just can't be erased.
The way cultures deal with suicide is different too. Eastern more communal cultures tend not to see it so badly as western individualism type cultures.
Is this just for Japan and South Korea? Those cultures specifically are a lot less communal than other Asian cultures.
 
Is this just for Japan and South Korea? Those cultures specifically are a lot less communal than other Asian cultures.
They’re still different to western cultures. Much more focus on how your actions impact the whole and others might be a better phrasing than communal.
 
traditionally, individualism was just collectivism through different means.

Everyone is an individual, and expected to carry their own weight without outside help.
That way society functions smoothly without being dragged down

I see western individualism as an effect, with calvinism/protestant work ethic, as the cause

Contemporary liberalism is just the bastardisation of that
 
I think you're being too abstract. There are some logical and empirical reasons why people commit suicide. Some individuals do it because they have an incurable illness and do not want to prolong their suffering. Others may take their own lives after losing their job and feeling unable to support their family. Additionally, some people commit suicide out of ideals, with Cato and Mishima being famous examples.

In many cases, it is possible to address these issues. It often requires a combination of therapy, medication, and family support. Saying it's solely due to "individualism" obscures the cause and effect. As such, It's not very helpful to treat social phenomena as purely a mental illusion.
 
I'd say it's all the result of the Dunbar number.

Before, The average person grew up and died in a village of people just like them who had no choice but to get along to survive.

If you grew up in an urban city school environment in the modern world, you'd get new students of all different nationalities, races, and (increasingly sexualities) every semester so the thought of giving a shit about these people and forming long term bonds with them doesn't matter to you.

International movement is available a ton of people on this planet so...

"Why should you care if people kill themselves? They probably won't be a major part of your life anyway."

"Why should I care if a state in the US is burning and all the retards who made it the way it is are moving to my red state and planning to shit up? I'll be dead by then."

"Who cares about job displacement and people losing their rights as well as increased violence? I live in a gated community, it won't effect me."

It's just a symptom of the decline and overextension of the west.
 
This thread's very Canadian, that's the only place where I have seen any of this be seriously entertained. Also Super Mario. you better not be a Nazi Candian who gets bumhurt over truckers.
 
If you drink enough cough medicine you can feel it but it's possible this is due to the dxm causing temporary brain damage and not proof that we are all one.
One time on dxm I felt like I was tightly packed with uncountable others in an enormous complicated antfarm of meat tunnels, pressed up against fleshy purple walls webbed with capillaries, and I had a faint sixth sense like a psychic connection to everyone else in the caverns no matter how close or how far away they were. I couldn't read their minds but I could communicate with them and I could feel their mood. I think that's what being a cell must feel like, or perhaps an Indian.
 
Jokes on you, the individual is an illusion. A eukaryotic organism is actually a whole bunch of cellular creatures all working together in one big collectivist whole in order to propagate their genes, with an entire grove of strange bacteria and organisms living inside the commune that is your body.

How can you decide individuality is an illusion if you don't even exist, comrade?

Also in regards to suicide specifically that's just because everything's been stripped of its romance and reduced to its function. The view is that life is about maximizing happiness and we all die in a cosmically insignificant amount of time, so if some stranger wants to off themselves then what say do you have in the matter?

I personally don't like it because I think allowing suicide to become a socially acceptable treatment for suffering goes down a bad path, but given the context of the modern day it isn't really a mystery why people have become more cavalier about it.

If you drink enough cough medicine you can feel it but it's possible this is due to the dxm causing temporary brain damage and not proof that we are all one.
That's a thing that's common in hallucinogens in general (although dxm is clinically a dissociative) that people refer to as "Ego death" I believe.

That said a person's brain firing out things and feeling a certain way isn't something to put a lot of stock in. Do a load of amphetamines and a person will be certain that the shadows outside in the trees are actually federal agents and that there are bugs underneath their fingernails, but nobody's treating that like some type of divine revelation.
 
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