Ask a genuine anarcho-capitalist anything* - *ideally where a libertarian framework is relevant

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Why ARE you an anarchist? What moral positions do you have to support that? And for the sake of curiosity, how do you feel about the Trump presidency?

I think some people in this thread are mixing up the moral philosophy of anarchism, and the idea that there is some practical application of it in the real world. There isn't. So even though I can make a moral argument for anarchy, I'm not naive enough to try and make a practical case for it, because it's a fantasy framework that can't exist at any real scale within a human society.

Basically the moral argument that I would make comes down to a few axiomatic truths:
  • Power in human systems has a natural tendency to consolidate over time. This is because those with power, want more power. And they will use their power to acquire more of it.
  • Ultimately, rules/laws can only be enforced with violence, or the threat of violence. Since those in power are the ones who make the rules, that eventually leads to those most willing to use violence or the threat of violence being the ones who acquire the most power.
  • Morals are subjective. There isn't any universal moral truth that you can get everyone to agree on (yes, even including murder and stealing), and since the people with power tend to be the ones most willing to use violence to acquire it, they are also the ones least likely to have morals in alignment with myself.
So that's basically a simplified version of my moral case for a personal anarchist philosophy - bad people always end up in power and I think that is a bad thing for humanity. But if you agree with those statements above, then you can see how that also explains why there can never be a Utopian Ancapistan (or "true communism" or any other fairy tale philosophical framework).

At some point you realize that the way you want the world to work, isn't the way the world actually works, because there are a lot of people who do not hold your morals and will do things that you won't do, in order to get what they want. Thinking that will change requires ignoring the entirety of human history and everything we know about human nature.

As far as the Trump presidency, he's an authoritarian doing what authoritarians do. You can always pick and choose individual actions that you support or agree with (or are even happy to see), but the consolidation of power is always bad and is always abused and his presidency is no different in that regard. And the office itself continues to gain more power so that future holders of the office will have even more opportunities to use it for abuse, and they're going to make decisions that a lot of people don't like.

Well, neat, you admit that resistance exists. That by itself is sufficient to refute your "might makes right is an inevitable law of nature" mantra.

Yes, there will always be resistance against those in power and it will always eventually lead to another group of people in power, and that power will always eventually be abused as we have seen throughout history after every single coup, revolution or resistance movement. Coups and revolutions just give you a new set of rulers, it doesn't give you anarchy.

But we've been over all of this before. So either you're trolling or you're just not in the right stage of your life to understand. Or maybe you're a bird.

whatisbird.webp

Yeah, you're probably just a bird. Carry on, my feathered friend.
 
Power in human systems has a natural tendency to consolidate over time. This is because those with power, want more power. And they will use their power to acquire more of it.
Donald Trump.


Ultimately, rules/laws can only be enforced with violence, or the threat of violence. Since those in power are the ones who make the rules, that eventually leads to those most willing to use violence or the threat of violence being the ones who acquire the most power.
Not necessarily. Power could also be obtained through coercion. In a courtroom, judges and lawyers have power but rarely do they enact on that power though violence.

At some point you realize that the way you want the world to work, isn't the way the world actually works, because there are a lot of people who do not hold your morals and will do things that you won't do, in order to get what they want.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
 
Not necessarily. Power could also be obtained through coercion. In a courtroom, judges and lawyers have power but rarely do they enact on that power though violence.

Coercion, by definition, is the threat of violence. As I said repeatedly in my post, and that you just directly quoted and responded to: "Ultimately, rules/laws can only be enforced with violence, or the threat of violence".

So the point stands.
 
When their entire argument stands on repeating some regurgitated lines off a 4x5 note card, you know they're full of shit.
 
How are those objective conflict-avoidance principles for people who don't have as much property as they want?
Desire isn't a title. Scarcity means that human wants always exceed available goods. Property norms say "acquire by first use/creation, trade, gift or inheritance; don't seize". If you want more than you have, your options are production and exchange, not overruling the boundaries of others. That's exactly how conflict is minimized, namely by channeling desire into peaceful means, and not by pretending that a want comes with a claim.
What large society has experienced the absence of conflict without enforced rules about property?
What kind of dogshit strawman premise is this? I never claimed "absence of conflict" and I never claimed "without enforced rules about property" either. Conflict exists because of scarcity, and property rules are how you resolve conflict without institutionalizing aggression. Enforcement is decentralized (owners, associates, insurers, defense providers, liability, boycott, ostracism, counter-force) without a legal exemption for a monopolist to aggress as they want.
And how do you account for unequal bargaining power outcomes - everyone will be happy with a freely negotiated contract even if they're poor negotiators?
A voluntary contract reveals demonstrated preference over the alternatives a person has. Fraud, duress, or incapacity make consent null and void, full stop. Markets respond to "poor negotiation" with advisors, reputation systems, standardized terms, warranties, and insurance. The statist "cure" (letting a monopoly declare peaceful agreements null and void by decree) creates the only party with actual unilateral power.
Show in a clear and concise manner how people respect property boundaries in the absence of law.
You, like many others, are assuming that law = state edict. I reject that premise. Law is the rule that your action stops at the boundaries of others. Enforcement is defense, restitution, and exclusion. "Societal consequences" are precisely what owners and their coalitions impose when they are wronged, without qualified immunity or political sanctuary.
[arbitration, merchant law, Iceland etc.]
Private order comes first. States later codify fragments of what already works (because it works). The mechanism is contract + reputation + exclusion. You can call that "adjacent to the state" if you like, but I don't care.
Do you even understand antitrust?
Antitrust laws exist to make every businessperson guilty before proven innocent. Charge more than your competitors? Guilty of price gauging. Charge less than your competitors? Unfair dumping prices. Charge the same as your competitors? Collusion.
There exists no such thing as a "monopoly" in the absence of a state. Everything that you might colloquially call a "monopoly" is at best a market leadership that's contestable. The moment force enters, it's not commerce, it's crime.
Legal and political structures, done well, temper whim.
Monopoly centralizes whim. Discretion, selective prosecution, and immunity are not bugs or accidents of statism, they're the core operating system doing what it's designed to do. In a free order, the costs of predation fall on predators. Under the state, they're socialized and often subsidized.

That said, please try better next time. You've mixed many categories and smuggled many premises. You keep redefining "law" to mean "whatever a monopoly declares" and then declare every non-state law "not really law". I'm happy to answer actual questions, but I ask you to follow the AMA format and pose clear questions next time.



Good luck using your counter-charisma and rational arguments against General Butt Naked or Charles Taylor.
This is an AMA, and not fanfic story hour. Either ask something real or kindly vacate the premises so your fellow revolutionaries get question time.



This user is German. He can’t even carry a pocket knife or deny the holocaust might as less defend “muh property”.
Cool one-liner. Question or GTFO, thx.



Have you considered moving on from meme idealogies and learning about how the real world works?
Since you know so much more about how the real world works than I do, how about you explain to me how theft becomes noble when a majority votes for it.



Do you have any question at all? Besides sneering fatalism and baseless assertions, that is. If you don't have an actual inquiry, please vacate the premises.



1. who would build the roads?
Roads get built the same way everything else gets built, by whoever values them enough to fund and maintain them. Can be private companies, neighborhoods, insurers, malls, factories, voluntary associations, the possibilities are endless. Roads are already private in many places (driveways, malls, tollways, industrial parks). The state only monopolized them later.
2a. how would immigration and "borders" be handled?
"Borders" and "migration" are pure state concepts, in the sense that they simply have no referent in reality outside of a territorial monopolist. In a free society, all there is is property lines. Nobody gets to "immigrate" onto land that someone already owns without their invitation or permission. You only get to enter a society to the extent that property owners allow you.
2b. If immigration were allowed, would it nevertheless still be permissible to enforce ethnic homogeneity over certain areas?
See above, "immigration" simply is not a concept in a free society. However, for the ethnonationalists, the good news is that it's much easier to have ethnic homogeneity in a free society than under state circumstances. As a property owner you have every freedom in the world to contractually restrict access to your land or communities on any basis, just like you decide who enters your home. They key difference is that it's voluntary association and not a top-down decree by some far-away bureaucrat that applies to everyone.
3. should parents have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate their children?
Parents don't own children. They brought them into existence and are responsible for not aggressing against them. Neglect that results in aggression (like letting a child starve while obstructing others from helping) violates the child's rights. But no, unless the parents agree otherwise, there is no state-like "legal code". The framework is liability and restitution under property rights.
In case that wasn't clear enough: Everybody has the right to help children, everybody has the right to enforce the child's property rights as an intervening third party. Forestalling/obstruction is aggression and can be met with force.
4. what's the difference between anarcho capitalism and leftwing anarchists, like ancoms?
Ancoms are against private property in scarce goods and want communal ownership. To me that's clearly self-contradictory, since someone still gets to decide and enforce "who gets what", meaning that there is a state. In anarcho-capitalism, property rights come first (I often say that, at its core, libertarianism is just one specific set of property assignment laws, and everything else, from free markets to capitalism to anarchism just logically follows from people obeying these laws).



Basically, anarcho-capitalism is reliant on the existence of a homo novo that has a uniform ideology and acceptance of a foundational concept, otherwise it will be unstable. Just like communism, another boring utopian fantasy based on "but if everyone would just agree on this ideology perfectly, it'll all be great!".
Why bother arguing about it? Just like "fetch", it's not going to happen, Gretchen.
Thanks for the fortune cookie, but if all you've got is "this will never happen lol", then you've got nothing to contribute here. If you're not here to ask, get out.



When their entire argument stands on repeating some regurgitated lines off a 4x5 note card, you know they're full of shit.
I'll take your word for it, since you're leading by example.
You're in a cult. The way out isn't bullshit Internet debates. It's finding something you're actually interested in rather than pretending to be right about something that doesn't even map to the real world.
This is basically old shit mixed with "vibes" and "content". You remixed the playbook with Gen z garbage.
I was making these bullshit arguments while you were shitting in a can when your momma had you locked up in a shed.
Here's my real suggestion. There's really cool shit to learn that doesn't involve creating an imaginary universe that George R.R. Martin is loling at.

Well, you being full of shit also answers my question of what loot the final boss of Reddit drops.
I request that you leave the premises before you spread more of that stench.
 
Sorry. I now assume that the only thing you'll actually respond to are meme-tier questions. In that case, why not an even better meme idealogy like transhumanism or anarchoprimitivism?

Imagine feeling the need to quote reply this many people and rage at them. A few more people who refuse to engage with uber retarded banter, and he'll actually explode.

Anyone willing to put any effort into a "I'm 14 and deep" topic like this is... well either 14 or mentally 14. Not the healthy kind of 14.
 
This is an AMA, and not fanfic story hour. Either ask something real or kindly vacate the premises so your fellow revolutionaries get question time.
The Liberian/Somalian/Afghan warlords were very real and emerged in countries where the state clearly broke down into anarchy, what are you talking about? What are you going to about people like this if/when it happens?

How is your anarcho-capitalist system going to stop this without a state, its laws, and people willing to enforce and defend them?

Again, you clearly think people are completely rational and make the most reasonable decisions at all times. And that just isn't how it is.

Since you know so much more about how the real world works than I do, how about you explain to me how theft becomes noble when a majority votes for it.
Because that's the only way organized, civilized societies work. Your entire ideology is based upon an overwhelming majority agreeing to your beliefs and willing to respect its boundaries without any coercion or force, which is something far more fantastical than any of the states you decry.

How do you not see this contradiction?
 
The Liberian/Somalian/Afghan warlords were very real and emerged in countries where the state clearly broke down, what are you talking about? What are you going to about people like this if/when it happens?
What you're describing is failed states, not free societies. Somalians didn't abolish the government on principle, it had competing states tearing each other apart. Warlords are just fragmented governments and not some kind of proof against anarchism. Warlords tax, conscript, and monopolize exactly like "official" states do, only with less paperwork. It's not absence of state, it's presence of state.
And what do you do about them? The same thing you'd do about any gang. Resist, out-coalition them, make the costs and risks of aggression higher than the returns. The difference is that, in a free order, nobody is forced to bankroll them through taxes or vote theater. They're just criminals, and not "officials" cloaked in legitimacy.
How is your anarcho-capitalist system going to stop this without a state, its laws, and people willing to enforce and defend them?
You're smuggling in a false dichotomy, "either chaos or state monopoly, nothing else". Reality has always had distributed enforcement as a third option. Property owners, insurers, and defense agencies already exist and already defend people's lives and asserts without requiring a legal monopoly. Law in my framework isn't "what the gang says", it's property boundaries enforceable by anyone.
Again, you clearly think people are completely rational and make the most reasonable decisions at all times. And that just isn't how it is.
Why do you think the cure for warlords is to give them a monopoly, christen them "the state", and demand universal obedience?
 
The Liberian/Somalian/Afghan warlords were very real and emerged in countries where the state clearly broke down into anarchy, what are you talking about? What are you going to about people like this if/when it happens?

Lolberts infatalize third world savages just like shitlibs and believe once their properly educated (brainwashed) they'll believe exactly the same retard bullshit as polycules in the New Hampshire Free State Project.
 
What you're describing is failed states, not free societies. Somalians didn't abolish the government on principle, it had competing states tearing each other apart. Warlords are just fragmented governments and not some kind of proof against anarchism.

People capable of abstract thought would recognize Somalians are shit tier and recognize that keeping them from your society in a greater distance than "muh property line" is a sound strategy.
 
What you're describing is failed states, not free societies. Somalians didn't abolish the government on principle, it had competing states tearing each other apart. Warlords are just fragmented governments and not some kind of proof against anarchism. Warlords tax, conscript, and monopolize exactly like "official" states do, only with less paperwork. It's not absence of state, it's presence of state.
And what do you do about them? The same thing you'd do about any gang. Resist, out-coalition them, make the costs and risks of aggression higher than the returns. The difference is that, in a free order, nobody is forced to bankroll them through taxes or vote theater. They're just criminals, and not "officials" cloaked in legitimacy.
So it's just a fantasy like the one you repeatedly accuse me of. At least my belief in socialism is grounded in the real world, this is more fantastical than Communism if I have to be honest but oddly similar at the same time.

You're smuggling in a false dichotomy, "either chaos or state monopoly, nothing else". Reality has always had distributed enforcement as a third option. Property owners, insurers, and defense agencies already exist and already defend people's lives and asserts without requiring a legal monopoly. Law in my framework isn't "what the gang says", it's property boundaries enforceable by anyone.
Property owners, insurers and defense agencies are protected and defended by the state and its laws, this is a strange line of reasoning and your definition of a "state monopoly" is very odd. I embrace state socialism in some cases but don't want it to be universal, that makes no sense.

Why do you think the cure for warlords is to give them a monopoly, christen them "the state", and demand universal obedience?
What makes you think people wouldn't want this in your ancap world? State power has a lot of advantages some poor subsistence farmer can't get under your system. FFS the Bolsheviks won people over by giving them bread and securing their homes and land against the other armies in the Russian Civil War!

Again, you keep forgetting people don't act rationally or reasonably in all cases and the will to power is a very real thing.
 
Lolberts infatalize third world savages just like shitlibs and believe once their properly educated (brainwashed) they'll believe exactly the same retard bullshit as polycules in the New Hampshire Free State Project.

I moved to New Hampshire for this shit in my twenties. When my brain fully developed (literally mid to late 20's) I realized the entire premise of this view of "liberty" means assuming everyone who disagrees is too retarded to make a free choice.

I'm not so full of myself to claim to be an expert in a dozen fields on Internet forums like anarcho-retards, but I've read enough to know that these people debating on the Internet are actually... not close to joking, just taking arguments and Googling counter arguments. They build up a little library of responses over time to reuse. And everything else they make up by imagining a world that doesn't exist and creating nonsense what ifs.

The very definition of headlore.

Even the people who took it seriously and started by reading Human Action, Rothbard, and these other authors, were just reciting bullshit that didn't hold up to scrutiny. Because these things are bullshit and don't hold up to scrutiny.

I suspect Ludwig Von Mises wouldn't like his name being drug through the mud by the Mises Institute much less these retards. His book Human Action was controversial, but it wasn't extreme retard politics. ...But it is provably unreliable as a theory.

These people like to say, "if you don't debate me, and humor my retarded takes that everyone else grows out of, well that means I'm right!!!" It only exposes them for being more retarded.

When they finally find an interest, something they actually care about studying and focusing on, they'll one day find out what it means to know something. From that perspective, they'll know how to stop pretending.
 
So it's just a fantasy like the one you repeatedly accuse me of.
No, tovarish. Fantasy is the belief that giving a gang a crown and calling it "the government" is alchemy that turns predation into justice. My position is about rules that are operating right now. Every signed contract, every insurer calculating risk, every security firm preventing theft. These things are not fantasies, they are empirical realities. You're the utopian here, banking on the magical thinking that monopolized coercion somehow stops being coercion once it's been wrapped in flags and hymns.
Property owners, insurers and defense agencies are protected and defended by the state and its laws
That's flatly false. These things exist in spite of states, not because of them. States restrict private defense, regulate insurance into cartel status, and outlaw competing arbitration the second it threatens their monopoly. If they were "protected by the state", why do they need their own lawyers, security staff, and lobbyists to defend themselves against the state's taxes, seizures, and regulations? You've got it backwards.
What makes you think people wouldn't want this in your ancap world? State power has a lot of advantages some poor subsistence farmer can't get
If people "want" it, why do states everywhere pour resources into propaganda, censorship, and police? If obedience were natural, none of that would be needed. And if it really were mere "bread and land" that wins loyalty, then voluntary groups can (and do) offer bread, housing, insurance, and security without demanding universal obedience. The only reason your "farmer" has no alternative is because the state outlaws alternatives.
Again, you keep forgetting people don't act rationally or reasonably in all cases and the will to power is a very real thing.
What makes you think this disproves my points and proves yours? If people are irrational and power-hungry, the last thing you should do is give a monopoly of violence to exactly those people. That's like saying "wolves are dangerous, so let's lock them inside the sheep pen as shepherds". Really, you conceded the anarchist case without realizing it.

States are gangs + states rule by coercion + people are irrational => We should canonize those gangs as holy writ. Do you see the problem?
 
No, tovarish. Fantasy is the belief that giving a gang a crown and calling it "the government" is alchemy that turns predation into justice. My position is about rules that are operating right now. Every signed contract, every insurer calculating risk, every security firm preventing theft. These things are not fantasies, they are empirical realities. You're the utopian here, banking on the magical thinking that monopolized coercion somehow stops being coercion once it's been wrapped in flags and hymns.
The state is natural to human existence, Genosse, it's why we no longer scavenge from the safety of trees.. People need to be ruled over to ensure stability, peace, law and order and most importantly control. I have no will to power, I prefer to entrust it to others while I provide my value within the system.

That being said, what is to stop me from agitating among the exploited under your system promising the disenfranchised land and bread? I'm guessing the ancap utopia won't be paying people a living wage to scrub the toilets.

And you forget jealousy, envy, petty cruelty and brutality....you keep denying basic human nature in favor of your rationalist fantasy.
 
Note how if a real-world event appears to contradict a praxeological conclusion, it's not the theory that's wrong, but the interpretation of the event.

This is why so much of this shit is considered useless tautology. It's why these people argue in circles for days trying to repeat definitions, "you don't understand man!!"

It's an attempt to derive complex economics and politics from extremely elementary quips. It only ever proves these people have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

Don't debate them, go read a book about something interesting.

I don't know if anyone saw the video of the flat earther debating AI and getting fucking reamed, but anarcho-retards could do the same thing.

No point in playing their Google game.
 
If I break your legs, steal your shit, burn your house, and take your car, and all you can say is "the state is still bad", nigga, you have lived a soft existence. Move out of fucking Germany. That's why you think AnCap Libertarian stuff is deep.

If you want to watch an ancap change their tune, watch their mom take away their Xbox, they call CPS everytime.
 
The state is natural to human existence, Genosse, it's why we no longer scavenge from the safety of trees.. People need to be ruled over to ensure stability, peace, law and order and most importantly control. I have no will to power, I prefer to entrust it to others while I provide my value within the system.
So your great argument is "I like being ruled, therefore everyone must be ruled"? Not my job to stop a slave from writing a love letter to his master. If you're fine with entrusting to power, fine, hand over your wallet to your master and shut your mouth. But don't pretend that your personal submissiveness is a universal law of human nature. Again, the fact that revolts, secessions, and uprisings happened at any point in history is proof that domination is not "natural" and that resistance is possible.
what is to stop me from agitating among the exploited under your system promising the disenfranchised land and bread? I'm guessing the ancap utopia won't be paying people a living wage to scrub the toilets
Reality and the people you're trying to exploit. Agitate all you like, but unless you can actually produce bread and land, you're just another fraudster. Unlike the state, you don't get a legal exemption to rob Peter to pay Paul. And if you try to "redistribute" by force, you get treated like every other criminal, and the unit to measure your remaining lifetime is called "shots to kill".
Note that you're admitting you need to promise bread and land, because you can't create it yourself. All parasitism, no production. The envy you accuse me of ignoring is exactly what your scheme depends on.
And you forget jealousy, envy, petty cruelty and brutality....you keep denying basic human nature in favor of your rationalist fantasy.
On the contrary, I take these vices seriously enough to not put them on a throne. Your solution to "people can be cruel" is to crown the cruelest people and call them the government. My solution is to deny them the legitimacy they crave and let property, defense, and coalition contain them like the predators they are.
If "human nature" includes envy, jealousy, and brutality, then why on Earth would you want to concentrate those traits into a monopoly of power? What's your excuse of worshipping the wolf instead of joining the rest of us in building the fence?
 
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