💬 Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[The Morning Visitor]

Such a shame. I've taken several trips to Montana and it's IMO the most beautiful place on earth.

I believe it, but Montana has no ports. Ports = commerce = funding for tech startups. Ports also usually equate to more minorities, but I think the Seattle/Vancouver rain chases them down to sunnier skies in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Not that Seattle isn't "diverse". It's just that the birthplace of Microsoft and grunge music is significantly whiter than Californian ports, and the only explanation I can guess is that Europeans are more tolerant of Ragnarök weather conditions. So you have a gathering of mostly-white nerds with too much time on their hands, in a prosperous area that will tolerate most "weird" behavior, and I think you have a recipe for troon stew.

 

[SweetWhosBeenGroundUp]

So a female friend of mine who I was pals with about ten years ago had her breasts cut off recently. She had been identifying as a trans man for a couple of years and seemingly miserable. But yesterday she posted photos on her instagram showing the scars of a double mammectomy.

She then posted a whole bunch of Instagram stories saying "oh I've already lost a whole bunch of followers since I revealed that I cut my tits off - omg bye haters you're all losers anyway".... but I checked her social blade and she hasn't lost a single one; in fact she gained about 80 on the day she posted those photos, on an account that only has about 1,000 - 1,500 followers, so that's just a lie to claim victimhood.

What the fuck happened to my friend, KF? I feel like this is just going to make things worse for her.

 

[Caddo Cobgang]

Something ive noticed about mtf Troons is that they will always try to date actual Women first, failing that they will settle for other mtf troons, I almost never see them date normal Men or ftm Troons or really any masculine looking specimen, what this proves to me that the rise in Troonism over the past few years has been the result of Incels who failed with women wanting to become women

 

[Oggdo Bogdo]

Something ive noticed about mtf Troons is that they will always try to date actual Women first, failing that they will settle for other mtf troons, I almost never see them date normal Men or ftm Troons or really any masculine looking specimen, what this proves to me that the rise in Troonism over the past few years has been the result of Incels who failed with women wanting to become women

I’m inclined to agree, “transbians” are the biggest red flag to me when it comes to these people. Always a pervert, very rarely a grooming victim.

HSTS I tend to pity much more, usually victims of trauma, though I guess that’s usually innate when it comes to being homosexual. It doesn’t stop them from trying to force themselves on unaware men though.

 

[Hatecraft]

I've been backstabbed enough by trannies that I assume that every last one is a ticking time bomb and I'd rather cut them out of my life. Even if they seem stable now, they still give that vibe that if I stop walking on eggshells for just a moment they'll explode that just makes me feel annoyed being around them.

No quarter for trannies. I can't tell you what to do, but be warned. Don't make the mistakes I made.

Now, I'm not in love with them and my life won't end if I stop being friends with them.
I have healthy self-boundaries. If they start backstabbing I will cut them out of my life, and I had to do this to multiple people in my lifetime so far (not trans-people though).
It's easy to do once you realize it's not you who's being "mean" for cutting them out, but they squandering your good will by e.g. exploding.
If they want to fuck around and find out, they will. Fortunately that's not been the case up until now.

 

[AI generated waifu]

I joined the site after a while of lurking to ask this, I hope that y'all will be nice...

Asking questions does not make you a bad person. None of your inner thoughts have to be visible to your friends (or anyone else for that matter).

Your mind is a completely private space even if it *feels* like there's someone judging you (like God or some invisible twitter feed that you've internalised because social media affected the way you think). If a belief has well founded reasoning it should be able to withstand some scrutiny.

About a quarter of my IRL friends are LGBT, and they all have such amazing life stories that make us stick together better.

I understand the fear that your questioning may create a rift between you and your friends. So you can either engage with this or not, either way is a neutral, personal choice. Here are some of my questions for you.

I can't lie that it does kind of suck sometimes. Maybe I'm a bad person for thinking in a hierarchy, but I don't know if unchangeables (like race, sexuality) are comparable to changeables like gender at an innate level.

You say here that gender is changeable in contrast to sexuality or race. But I want to ask you -- why?

Sex, sexuality race and even age were considered immutable characteristics. Why is it that only specifically your sex can be changed via personal/gender identity? Why should the category of man and woman suddenly become about personal identity and beliefs, and nothing else?

Small hypothetical :

Spoiler: Age identity hypothetical

Imagine you met someone who's, say, in their thirties, who feels like they've never left their eleven year old self. They have a very strong, negative gut reaction to being reminded of their actual age (or, as they call it, their 'chronical age' as opposed to their 'real' age of being eleven).

They feel so strongly about it that their identity becomes all about whatever mental image and associations they have about what eleven year old children are or look like, despite not having been one for over twenty years. They might argue that they're 'mentally, psychologically or spiritually' eleven and that their personal 'age identity' represents who they are to the fullest.

They go through whatever they can to physically turn back the clock, with clothing choices, manners of speech, face lifts, leg shortening, hair transplants, bone shaving, anything you can think of. To the point that they honestly do look a lot younger. If you didn't see them next to an actual eleven year old, you could even mistake them for a young teenager!

They'd prefer it if you humoured their requests (or demands) of being treated as though they were eleven, to spare their feelings and 'respect' their identity. You might be inclined to go along with it, being a nice person and all. You might, maybe, even sort of convince yourself a little. But would you actually believe it?

The funny thing is, these kinds of people actually exist in certain communities (like the age regression or otherkin communities). There is this overlap with transgender people who do, in fact, directly compare their trans experience to these other identities they have. They quite literally make the comparison for me.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

What I've seen happen a lot is that non-trannies (fucked up in other ways) will tend to bond with trannies just on the mere basis of shared misery, and unfortunately that bond can be a really powerful thing for people in a poor mental state. And while I don't think every single troon is on a mission to groom as many people as possible, even the ones that abstain from that or keep it to themselves will inadvertently end up rubbing off on their friends, especially the autistic types. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring that up so I may be retarded, but to me transgenderism can be "passively" spread without some elaborate grooming operation involved. That's what really scares me.

Look no further than a troon who is tired of being miserable and wants to live /despite/ their literal mental sickness. They'll get rejected, shamed and ignored to defend the weakest of the council to go "Oh yeah wait, I can literally just stop entertaining this idea and detransition?". I can understand it to some degree; it's scary to see others do better than you, but that's where genuine compassion comes in. Not just "Omg you'll get there, baby! (but I'm glad I'm way ahead of you)", but mutual understanding of the hell that is life, most notably in relation to un/employment etc.

 

[Baraadmirer]

The funny thing is, these kinds of people actually exist in certain communities (like the age regression or otherkin communities). There is this overlap with transgender people who do, in fact, directly compare their trans experience to these other identities they have.

@Less Than Zero I would like to direct your attention to the Stefonknee thread for possibly the most infamous example.

 

[Less Than Zero]

They'd prefer it if you humoured their requests (or demands) of being treated as though they were eleven, to spare their feelings and 'respect' their identity. You might be inclined to go along with it, being a nice person and all. You might, maybe, even sort of convince yourself a little. But would you actually believe it?

If it isn't illegal, immoral, or actually harmful to society then why wouldn't I humor it? They can desire to be younger (maybe not 11 specifically) and that's perfectly normal and up to them. I can't really say You Will Never Be 11 Again and change their POV

Why is it that only specifically your sex can be changed via personal/gender identity? Why should the category of man and woman suddenly become about personal identity and beliefs, and nothing else?

Because I don't give that much of a fuck about biology. Men and Women exist as sex categories, but it's obvious that most if not all people don't socially fit neatly into these two boxes. People can and should identify as who they want (though I won't go as far as to say these sexes don't exist or matter)

though I guess that’s usually innate when it comes to being homosexual

"LGBT is the result of trauma" in the big 25

 

[LimeRikki]

Men and Women exist as sex categories,

I promise you that biology matters and that the sexes are pretty different. If they weren't, we wouldn't be having this tranny nonsense and trannies wouldn't get so mad when you point out all of these ways, biologically, that they will never be Female, let alone a Woman.

Differing biology between the sexes also mean that for certain medical events such as heart attacks, the symptoms present very, very differently depending on whether you are male or Female. Transitioning doesn't fix this. A male who takes estrogen and wears dresses will still have male heart attack symptoms.

A Female heart is not a smaller version of a male heart, they have differing thicknesses in certain parts, which is one of the causes of different symptoms during cardiac events.

Biology matters, and trannies are finally losing the power to try and gaslight us into believing otherwise.

 

[Less Than Zero]

Biology matters

We agree that it does, the difference is that you think it should socially affect how people are treated while I don't. People are unique and I see nothing wrong with validating their identities if it means just respecting them as you would most others, which is what a lot of LGBT people want at the end of the day

 

[Argos]

Validating tranny identities means lying to myself, and that's damaging to my mental health. So I refuse.

 

[Oggdo Bogdo]

"LGBT is the result of trauma" in the big 25

Some people have this wonderful ability called basic pattern recognition: just because you're "different" doesn't prove shit when the vast majority of you are mentally ill, have personality disorders or are porn addicts that want to make it everyone else's problem.

You wanna explain why lesbians have a higher rate of domestic abuse by any chance? Or the good ol' 41% of trannies?
Why are the "LGBT" positive organizations floating around shit like this? It's not the only example, there's plenty of identical shit I can grab if you want me to.

You guys do a poor job of making yourselves look like mentally stable individuals.

 

[LimeRikki]

We agree that it does, the difference is that you think it should socially affect how people are treated while I don't. People are unique and I see nothing wrong with validating their identities if it means just respecting them as you would most others, which is what a lot of LGBT people want at the end of the day

I used to have the same "live and let live attitude", but then we started socially accepting them and letting them into places like Women's prisons where they went and they raped Women or Women's bathrooms, where they went and they raped Women or Women's rape shelters and homeless shelters, and man, oh man pattern recognition sure is inconvenient, isn't it?

We started socially accepting them, and then they demanded that we change language around around women's bodies. It wasn't "breastfeeding" anymore. It was "chest feeding". It wasn't "vagina" anymore, it was "front hole" or "bonus hole". We really did go through a phase where we decided that using dehumanizing language about Women's bodies order to make trannies happy was acceptable and it's fucking not.

I could go on, but:
"Live and let live" is a two way street - if trannies hadn't been so intrusive and so damaging to Women and Women's spaces then we wouldn't be having this conversation, but trannies can't just accept that Women have rights and sometimes and those rights matter more than their feelings. Again, "live and let live" only works when both sides are doing it.

 

[Hatecraft]

We agree that it does, the difference is that you think it should socially affect how people are treated while I don't. People are unique and I see nothing wrong with validating their identities if it means just respecting them as you would most others, which is what a lot of LGBT people want at the end of the day

Woman and man aren't identities. You cannot change or wear them like you please. You are simply born that way or the other.
A man liking to wear dresses or put make-up on is just a man liking to wear dresses. He's still a man. Most people don't judge others if they're into that shit as long as it's treated like that, a lifestyle preference.

Adhering to gender stereotypes is not necessary to be a woman or a man. It doesn't matter what you're into or if you behave like the other one. Men and women are often treated differently socially, it's true. And you can treat your friends however you want to.

But validating their identity as their sex ("you are a woman") is feeding into their delusions.
I understand the hesitation as you don't want to hurt your friends and I won't tell you to change your behavior, but this way you are enabling them.
Personally I never told my trans-friends they're women when they're not. I tell them they're trans, because that's true.
I am still respecting their preference to wear dresses or whatever they feel like.
But they'll never be a woman and will never know how it is to be a woman.


I had an interesting discussion with my brother recently about how LGBT is one of those minority groups, just like furries, that started out as a specified interest group, but due to the accepting nature of "everyone is welcome", it attracts all the degenerates and sick people rejected by general society, who will be left unchecked by the group because bullying them out feels like going against their own agenda of love and acceptance, thus ultimately dooming it.
When LGBT became cool, degenerates came flocking to it, yearning to become special.
I'm sure the gays and lesbians love that LGBT has become a petri-dish of attention whores and people who belong in a mental health institution.

 

[Less Than Zero]

Personally I never told my trans-friends they're women when they're not. I tell them they're trans, because that's true.

I might do this, but some still make a big deal about pronouns so I'm not sure

I used to have the same "live and let live attitude", but then we started socially accepting them and letting them into places like Women's prisons where they went and they raped Women or Women's bathrooms, where they went and they raped Women or Women's rape shelters and homeless shelters, and man, oh man pattern recognition sure is inconvenient, isn't it?

We started socially accepting them, and then they demanded that we change language around around women's bodies. It wasn't "breastfeeding" anymore. It was "chest feeding". It wasn't "vagina" anymore, it was "front hole" or "bonus hole". We really did go through a phase where we decided that using dehumanizing language about Women's bodies order to make trannies happy was acceptable and it's fucking not.

I could go on, but:
"Live and let live" is a two way street - if trannies hadn't been so intrusive and so damaging to Women and Women's spaces then we wouldn't be having this conversation, but trannies can't just accept that Women have rights and sometimes and those rights matter more than their feelings. Again, "live and let live" only works when both sides are doing it.

While true I doubt my friends are clamoring to rape women or are responsible for the things you mentioned. If they just want to go about their lives as men or women I will just acknowledge that about them

 

[Argos]

I might do this, but some still make a big deal about pronouns so I'm not sure

While true I doubt my friends are clamoring to rape women or are responsible for the things you mentioned. If they just want to go about their lives as men or women I will just acknowledge that about them

Whether they do the things listed in the previous post or not, they benefit from them.

You have no idea what your friends are capable of until they do it. Any red flags you will ignore because you want to be kind. Any boundaries you possess you'll let them trample for the same reason. It's a matter of when, not if, they fuck you over.

People who lie about something so basic as what they are physically and expect you to go along will increase the amount of lies they expect you to believe

 

[Less Than Zero]

Spoiler: The other thing

In all honesty I feel like if I was hateful towards my trans friends, I'd quickly become a jealous person. They're very happy with their identities, have tons of friends and even S/Os, and are going on to great things after graduating. Even if it's not the LinkedIn type success story they're still very happy with where they are in life, even with crippling medical bills and whatnot from their transitions.
I'm doing OK for myself, but why should I hate on others for things they can't really control when they're just doing better than me? IDK

It's a matter of when, not if, they fuck you over.

And what would lead to that? Genuinely, I've been friends with them for months/years and even if we've had debates and fights over things it's not been enough to cause this. I think you're being paranoid

 

[113]

So a female friend of mine who I was pals with about ten years ago had her breasts cut off recently. She had been identifying as a trans man for a couple of years and seemingly miserable. But yesterday she posted photos on her instagram showing the scars of a double mammectomy.

She then posted a whole bunch of Instagram stories saying "oh I've already lost a whole bunch of followers since I revealed that I cut my tits off - omg bye haters you're all losers anyway".... but I checked her social blade and she hasn't lost a single one; in fact she gained about 80 on the day she posted those photos, on an account that only has about 1,000 - 1,500 followers, so that's just a lie to claim victimhood.

What the fuck happened to my friend, KF? I feel like this is just going to make things worse for her.

In high school I was seated with someone like that (it's a 2 person layout for the desks here). I felt pretty bad about it, since they befriended me and I didn't totally mind since it opened up a safe space with having access to their further friend group, as I was coming to terms with being gay back then. But it was awkward, as everyone would talk shit any moment they weren't in the room without a cause of action preceding it.

Not sure if they give out T that early, but they were clearly on something. Just the scarred face and smelling pretty bad for a woman when they sweat. Definitely nowhere near as reversible as the average pooner I see on here. Assumed they were just kind of ugly to begin with, until I got shown a video of them at a pride event like 3 years before - looked like a completely unrecognizable person.
Made me feel a little conflicted that in that timeline they'd totally be right there laughing at people with the other girls, not the cleanest visual but most definitely beats being the punching bag at some point.

They transferred and we drifted apart, just texting twice a year until I went fully offline, so I didn't get to learn much after, but I remember one of the last things in person was them going on about getting a double mastectomy when they turned 18. That'd be 2 years ago now.
Think about it from time to time when I get reminded. Even being a bystander made me feel socially anxious, I couldn't imagine the surgery changing much about that, for how drastic of a life choice it is.

 

[AI generated waifu]

If it isn't illegal, immoral, or actually harmful to society then why wouldn't I humor it?

You can humour it, sure, but would you actually believe in it? Would you be able to bring yourself to set aside or 'redefine' your understanding of the truth in order to accommodate - or as you say, respect - the way someone views themselves? There could be a sixty year old father identifying as a seven year old girl. Or a fourteen year old teen identifying as eighteen. Anything is possible with self identity, really.

This is what transgender people ask of us, to completely and fully believe a male person can be a woman and vice versa.

Men and Women exist as sex categories, but it's obvious that most if not all people don't socially fit neatly into these two boxes.

Sex categories exist as neutral facts about human beings, and wether you socially conform to a set of expectations associated with your sex or not, ideally wouldn't matter. Not acting, looking or behaving 'like a woman' shouldn't discredit someone from being female.

Sorry for the late response. I see people are arguing with you, here. You don't have to feel pressured to defend yourself, or convince us. The point of my hypothetical is just to give you an opportunity to think through your beliefs, wether you end up agreeing with me or not.