US US Politics General 2: Hope Edition - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
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The Soviets weren't going to win shit without US Lend-Lease and the Allies taking pressure off the Eastern Front
That's not the point. The point is that the side that loses the greater numbers isn't a reliable indicator, in of itself, of who won or lost a conflict
 
there's a difference between "getting our asses kicked" and losing. The US dominated the hot war part of Vietnam it was the political nature of it (specifically the lack of will to continue it here at home) that lead to us abandoning the fight. If the US had had the political will to continue we would've won sooner rather than later.
The US failed it's stated objective. They failed to protect the South from the Communist north. The US lost the battle of wills, along with 60k+ souls against a bunch of fucking jungle bunny retards.

That sounds like an ass kicking to me. This after-the-fact "Well.. you see... ACKSHUALLY... had these other things happened, we would have won" hand waiving is just cope from people who can't accept that the US kinda stuck it's dick in crazy and regretted it.
 
The US forces were ejected from the area and the enemy took control of the disputed territory. Does that sound like winning to you?
The VC didn't eject shit. If the US public continued to vote to support the war, you can bet your ass they'd have won it.

The only problem is that most democracies can only do war at a half-measure; unless they're personally attacked, they won't be that involved in it, and eventually, they'll back off if there's enough resistance on the home front or on the battlefield.
 
The VC waited until we left the war before making their move just like in Afghanistan. To clarify I'm not saying we won the war, just that we didn't get our asses kicked and there wasn't the will to finish it through
The only battle that North Vietnamese/Viet Cong "won" was the Ia Drang, which was a stalemate. In literally every other major engagement, US and ARVN forces demolished the communists. This does not even count the number of communists rounded up and dealt with by RVNP. The communists waited the US out.

People never, ever bring up the fact that the media (communists) took every chance to criticize the war, lie about it, or try to trick Americans into thinking the US was there for some colonial reason. I've met plenty of veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars who were like "yeah that was some bullshit," but I've never met a Vietnam veteran who regretted his service. The guys who went there saw what the Viet Cong were doing and were brought up right, so they know the Viet Cong were a bunch of terrorist retards who deserved a bullet.
 
The VC didn't eject shit. If the US public continued to vote to support the war, you can bet your ass they'd have won it.
Have you never read the Pentagon Papers? The war was unwinnable from the beginning. It would have taken an insane amount of money to keep and hold Vietnam which the US Government were never, at any point, willing to spend. This is before we even get into public opinion turning against the war.

Bottom line, Vietnam was a foolish adventure, the US should never have been there in the first place and American politicians lied to and hoodwinked the American public until they could lie no more, and had to pull out. And why? All because of some foolish notion that, if Vietnam were allowed to become communist, the rest of Southeast Asia would become communist. Which never happened.
 
Laos and Cambodia would like a word with you.
Two countries, one of which, if the US had not bombed the shit out of them, may not have been galvanised into supporting Pol Pot.

Also, do you know what Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam are today? Fucking tourist destinations. Fucking college students go there on their gap year. That's the sum total of their contribution to geopolitics. That and the sweatshops
 
but I've never met a Vietnam veteran who regretted his service.
Because most Vietnam servicemen were volunteers, not draftees. People make a big stink about the draft for the war but the reality is that most draftees were placed into support roles because the military found out how bad of an idea it is to place draftees in combat arms in WWII
 
That sounds like an ass kicking to me.
The United State military smashed the NVA every time we squared off, their most "successful" attack ended up utterly destroying the Viet Cong by the time it was finished. If we'd had the political will or desire we could have run heavy bombers, heavy cruisers, and battleships and reduced all of the North's costal cities to rubble. We left the ARVN in charge of the area and they managed to hold until '75 when Congress decided not to provide promised logistical support. At no point did the North Vietnamese ever actually kick America's ass. Now, China on the other hand, the NVA kicked their ass.
 
Two countries, one of which, if the US had not bombed the shit out of them, may not have been galvanised into supporting Pol Pot.

Also, do you know what Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam are today? Fucking tourist destinations. Fucking college students go there on their gap year. That's the sum total of their contribution to geopolitics. That and the sweatshops
You said Domino Theory never happened. Laos and Cambodia were both taken over by communists after the US left Vietnam. The Laotian communists, the Pathet Lao, received significant support from the Vietnamese while the Chinese supported the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Maybe read a book before you make retarded claims that can be debunked by an idiot like me.

Them being tourist destinations has nothing to do with you being wrong.
 
To ALL saying anything remotely charitable to the US performance in the Vietnam war
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Dumb ass farmers took our gosh dang lunch money and made us look like terrorists while they did it, we killed over 1,500 civilians OVER CHRISTMAS to lose 15 heavy bombers we never rebuilt and then quit the war
 
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