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I wouldn't call that "ripped off," especially since there really is a (bullshit-sounding) theory that an entire copy of the universe is created every time there's multiple possible states. For each particle.
Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
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projecteddrama
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I know what you're referring to and it's not really bullshit from what I know, but that's not what I meant. "Quantum Reality" and shifting like Sam Beckett (across universes instead of just time) is what I meant, which was intentionally a reference to Quantum Leap, so honestly I shouldn't even say it's ripping it off. It's actually one of TNG's best episodes, so I'm not even dogging on it. Bryan Fuller planned a similar episode for Voyager but it was shitcanned because the Voyager heads were largely idiots allergic to cool ideas. Also, obscure fact that means nothing, but the future that Picard goes into in "All Good Things" was intended as an alternate reality rather than the "prime future", and thats the explanation as to why the films follow a different path, apparently.
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projecteddrama
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Over the course of a month or so, I've watched all the Trek movies, my opinions with some changed, others stayed the same:
Star Trek 1 - Still a pretty bad film in that it's incredibly boring. The concept is interesting, and so is the development history (The God Thing, Phase II) but overall, not a good film. In some ways perhaps the worst because it's the most unwatchable but not the dumbest, by far. I like the theme song. Would have made a better episode where it didn't have to be 3 hours long with unnecessary special effects.
One of the early iterations "The God Thing" had Jesus being revealed as an alien supercomputer heading to Earth. Another version, meant for the TV series "Star Trek Phase II" had a robotic spider named "Tasha" and V'ger being a record of humanity launched during WW3 in case humans wiped each other out.
Star Trek 2 - Great film, arguably the best. Excellent performances, even by William Shatner, interesting b plot with the Genesis device, and cool special effects. The death of Spock is still sad even knowing what comes later.
A previous version had Khan starting a rebellion on a Federation planet with Kirks son being a right hand man of his. Also, in the final version, Khan was supposed to have a son that gets blown up on the Reliant. Scenes were even filmed but only a few pictures exist AFAIK, none of the intact scenes.
Star Trek 3 - Okay film. It's a lot more corny feeling and looking than the uber serious Star Trek 2, but it's still fun. It's a ridiculous plot but I cant see how it couldnt be when they're bringing someone back from the dead. Still like it.
The Klingon Bird of Prey was originally a redesign of the Romulan Bird of Prey, and the Romulans were supposed to be the villains.
Star Trek IV - I'm mixed on this one. I wasn't alive when it came out but I do remember when I was younger that this was one of the more popular and mainstream ones, but nowadays it seems to be a black sheep that many fans treat as an embarrassing entry. I'm mixed and think it's just okay, but pretty cringy at times as well. Probably the most dated of all the Trek films though.
A very early version was actually the first iteration of the "Academy Years" film that we eventually sorta got with Star Trek 09. Another version had the crew going back in time to bring back fungus from the Amazon, vital to curing a plague, because the Amazon was all gone by the 23rd Century. Also Eddie Murphy was going to be in it and regrets not being in it.
Star Trek V - Yeah, the infamous bad one. Little known fact is that Shatner ripped off the premise from Roddenberry's "The God Thing" concept all the way back in Star Trek 1's development. His version is essentially an uber retarded version of the concept. Don't want to go into a full rant on the problems of the film but yeah it sucks. I oddly enjoy it. It's like watching a shitty TOS episode, the bad special effects help create the mood. It's a lot of fun.
The special effects are awful because Shatner blew the budget on a few scenes that never even appear in the film. Lol
Star Trek VI - I used to really like this film, in fact I think it's one of the first films I ever saw. Def. a huge improvement over the last film. I like the concept, but the handling of it as unsubtle as possible, and pretty ham-fisted. It's full of cringy moments like the purple Klingon blood and "homo sapiens only club" line, which doesn't make any sense when the president of the Federation isn't even human in the film. Also the scene with Kirk fighting the shapeshifting black lady is uh....I don't know what to make of it. The final space battle I remembered being really awesome, but watching it now, it's really boring as the crew act like geriatics barely caring about the Enterprise being pounded. The bird of prey exploding is cool, and so is the music. I love most of the Rura Penthe sequence as well. Overall it's okay.
An early version was another attempt to do the "Academy Years" which was far more developed. It got universally negative reception from the cast and Roddenberry and most at Paramount, probably for good reason. Another version had all but McCoy and Spock dying from worm like aliens invading the Federation, or something.
Star Trek Generations - It seems everyone hates this film these days, I've seen some very ruthless reviews of it. I like it a lot more than most, but I still don't love the film. To me, it's just a meh episode of TNG, not the worst thing ever. I like the Picard/Kirk fanwankery scenes, I love the Enterprise crash sequence (which they wanted to do on the show but lacked the budget), and I like the Picard crying scene, even if there's a lot to criticize about it. Don't like the time travel (which only exists to get Picard and Kirk interacting, earlier versions had Kirk appearing as a hologram) the villain (though McDowell does a decent job) or some of the other confusing bullshit. It's certainly far inferior to "All Good Things" written at the same time by the same writers, and shouldn't it have been the other way around? Shouldn't the film have been superior? Though Moore and Braga claim it suffered heavily from massive executive notes and meddling. Oh well.
An early version had the Enterprise D fighting the Enterprise A. Sounds retarded, but part of me would like to have seen that.
Star Trek First Contact - A really good one, probably my favorite of the entire film series. Far superior to the previous film, much like Star Trek 2 is better than 1. Of course the film is essentially TNG's answer to Star Trek II, right down to it being a sequel to a beloved episode. It's also not as much an action film as I see people claim, a lot of it is just talking and exploration of sci-fi concepts like any other TNG episode. Most of the action scenes, like the beginning Borg battle, are pretty good (esp the slow deflector dish scene). I also find it a far more fitting conclusion to "The Best Of Both Worlds" than the other Borg episodes in TNG. Esp love the opening sequence. The time travel is confusing when you think about it (like most time travel) though it made more sense in previous versions of the script, and in retrospect not the biggest fan of the Borg Queen, even if she's played well by Alice Krige. My favorite part is the ending with the Vulcans landing, I like the B plot more than the A plot actually.
One of the original ideas had the Borg going back in time to Renaissance Italy to stop it from happening, but was killed primarily because Patrick Stewart refused to film any scenes for the concept.
Star Trek Insurrection - In some ways my least favorite of all the Trek films, and it seems to be the most hated nowadays. The plot and the ethical dilemma make no sense and blatantly contradicts the core of Star Trek (and various episodes if you want to nitpick), it's paced awfully unlike the previous film and it's almost as boring as Star Trek 1. The humor is also totally cringy. I kinda like the Gilbert and Sullivan scene though, for some reason.
The film was so nonsensical that Paramount execs actually complained about it, to no avail apparently.
Star Trek Nemesis - The other film everyone hates. I don't hate it as much as most, though like with Generations, I don't like it either. The plot is just a rehash of Star Trek 2 and 6, but in a more mediocre fashion. The villain is cliched as all hell, the retcon involving the Romulans isn't interesting and the overuse of action just makes the film even more boring. I do kinda like the finale battle between the Enterprise and the Reman ship though, even if it's just ripping off the finale battle in both 2 and 6. I can totally see why the film bombed, and I hated it when it first came out, but now to me it's just meh.
The film was meant to get a sequel that would have been a TNG/DS9/VOY crossover, written by the same guys, so would have likely sucked, but interesting idea. Also the film was supposed to have Seven of Nine as an officer on the Enterprise.
Star Trek 09 - Surprisingly a rip off of Star Trek Nemesis, almost to the letter. But with a big name director and a new young cast, so everyone loved it, and most still do. I find it painfully more boring and stupid than even Nemesis though, the film is badly edited, the plot absolutely ridiculous and the product placement and Beastie Boys is just cringeworthy in that Star Trek V sorta way. I like the Spock cameo though and the scale of the film at least. But not a good one out of the lot.
A very early version of the film was going to be set in the Enterprise era in the first battle of the Earth-Romulan War, but with a lot of surprising similarities to the final version.
Star Trek Into Darkness - Seems this is one everyone also hates, and while not a good film, it's better than the last one. It's full of cringe, full of stupidity like magic blood that cures death (why did humans ever abandon this?), it requires you to have watched Space Seed or Wrath of Khan to even know what's going on, and I still hate the title. I like the Spock/Khan fistfight though.
Early ideas had the Borg and Q being villains. Another had a baby Picard being featured. Thankfully all of these were shitcanned
Star Trek Beyond - Another really boring film. I don't even remember the plot, something about a captain from the Enterprise era who crashed on a planet after going through a wormhole and now he's an alien who wants to destroy the Federation. I didn't see the point. Major cringe at the Pixar beginning, and it's just a by the numbers boring action flick. I like the scene where Spock looks at the photo, and nothing else that I can remember. Probably my least favorite of the new films.
Looking through this, I realize I don't like the films anywhere as much as the TV series. I hope Discovery is good.
Star Trek 1 - Still a pretty bad film in that it's incredibly boring. The concept is interesting, and so is the development history (The God Thing, Phase II) but overall, not a good film. In some ways perhaps the worst because it's the most unwatchable but not the dumbest, by far. I like the theme song. Would have made a better episode where it didn't have to be 3 hours long with unnecessary special effects.
One of the early iterations "The God Thing" had Jesus being revealed as an alien supercomputer heading to Earth. Another version, meant for the TV series "Star Trek Phase II" had a robotic spider named "Tasha" and V'ger being a record of humanity launched during WW3 in case humans wiped each other out.
Star Trek 2 - Great film, arguably the best. Excellent performances, even by William Shatner, interesting b plot with the Genesis device, and cool special effects. The death of Spock is still sad even knowing what comes later.
A previous version had Khan starting a rebellion on a Federation planet with Kirks son being a right hand man of his. Also, in the final version, Khan was supposed to have a son that gets blown up on the Reliant. Scenes were even filmed but only a few pictures exist AFAIK, none of the intact scenes.
Star Trek 3 - Okay film. It's a lot more corny feeling and looking than the uber serious Star Trek 2, but it's still fun. It's a ridiculous plot but I cant see how it couldnt be when they're bringing someone back from the dead. Still like it.
The Klingon Bird of Prey was originally a redesign of the Romulan Bird of Prey, and the Romulans were supposed to be the villains.
Star Trek IV - I'm mixed on this one. I wasn't alive when it came out but I do remember when I was younger that this was one of the more popular and mainstream ones, but nowadays it seems to be a black sheep that many fans treat as an embarrassing entry. I'm mixed and think it's just okay, but pretty cringy at times as well. Probably the most dated of all the Trek films though.
A very early version was actually the first iteration of the "Academy Years" film that we eventually sorta got with Star Trek 09. Another version had the crew going back in time to bring back fungus from the Amazon, vital to curing a plague, because the Amazon was all gone by the 23rd Century. Also Eddie Murphy was going to be in it and regrets not being in it.
Star Trek V - Yeah, the infamous bad one. Little known fact is that Shatner ripped off the premise from Roddenberry's "The God Thing" concept all the way back in Star Trek 1's development. His version is essentially an uber retarded version of the concept. Don't want to go into a full rant on the problems of the film but yeah it sucks. I oddly enjoy it. It's like watching a shitty TOS episode, the bad special effects help create the mood. It's a lot of fun.
The special effects are awful because Shatner blew the budget on a few scenes that never even appear in the film. Lol
Star Trek VI - I used to really like this film, in fact I think it's one of the first films I ever saw. Def. a huge improvement over the last film. I like the concept, but the handling of it as unsubtle as possible, and pretty ham-fisted. It's full of cringy moments like the purple Klingon blood and "homo sapiens only club" line, which doesn't make any sense when the president of the Federation isn't even human in the film. Also the scene with Kirk fighting the shapeshifting black lady is uh....I don't know what to make of it. The final space battle I remembered being really awesome, but watching it now, it's really boring as the crew act like geriatics barely caring about the Enterprise being pounded. The bird of prey exploding is cool, and so is the music. I love most of the Rura Penthe sequence as well. Overall it's okay.
An early version was another attempt to do the "Academy Years" which was far more developed. It got universally negative reception from the cast and Roddenberry and most at Paramount, probably for good reason. Another version had all but McCoy and Spock dying from worm like aliens invading the Federation, or something.
Star Trek Generations - It seems everyone hates this film these days, I've seen some very ruthless reviews of it. I like it a lot more than most, but I still don't love the film. To me, it's just a meh episode of TNG, not the worst thing ever. I like the Picard/Kirk fanwankery scenes, I love the Enterprise crash sequence (which they wanted to do on the show but lacked the budget), and I like the Picard crying scene, even if there's a lot to criticize about it. Don't like the time travel (which only exists to get Picard and Kirk interacting, earlier versions had Kirk appearing as a hologram) the villain (though McDowell does a decent job) or some of the other confusing bullshit. It's certainly far inferior to "All Good Things" written at the same time by the same writers, and shouldn't it have been the other way around? Shouldn't the film have been superior? Though Moore and Braga claim it suffered heavily from massive executive notes and meddling. Oh well.
An early version had the Enterprise D fighting the Enterprise A. Sounds retarded, but part of me would like to have seen that.
Star Trek First Contact - A really good one, probably my favorite of the entire film series. Far superior to the previous film, much like Star Trek 2 is better than 1. Of course the film is essentially TNG's answer to Star Trek II, right down to it being a sequel to a beloved episode. It's also not as much an action film as I see people claim, a lot of it is just talking and exploration of sci-fi concepts like any other TNG episode. Most of the action scenes, like the beginning Borg battle, are pretty good (esp the slow deflector dish scene). I also find it a far more fitting conclusion to "The Best Of Both Worlds" than the other Borg episodes in TNG. Esp love the opening sequence. The time travel is confusing when you think about it (like most time travel) though it made more sense in previous versions of the script, and in retrospect not the biggest fan of the Borg Queen, even if she's played well by Alice Krige. My favorite part is the ending with the Vulcans landing, I like the B plot more than the A plot actually.
One of the original ideas had the Borg going back in time to Renaissance Italy to stop it from happening, but was killed primarily because Patrick Stewart refused to film any scenes for the concept.
Star Trek Insurrection - In some ways my least favorite of all the Trek films, and it seems to be the most hated nowadays. The plot and the ethical dilemma make no sense and blatantly contradicts the core of Star Trek (and various episodes if you want to nitpick), it's paced awfully unlike the previous film and it's almost as boring as Star Trek 1. The humor is also totally cringy. I kinda like the Gilbert and Sullivan scene though, for some reason.
The film was so nonsensical that Paramount execs actually complained about it, to no avail apparently.
Star Trek Nemesis - The other film everyone hates. I don't hate it as much as most, though like with Generations, I don't like it either. The plot is just a rehash of Star Trek 2 and 6, but in a more mediocre fashion. The villain is cliched as all hell, the retcon involving the Romulans isn't interesting and the overuse of action just makes the film even more boring. I do kinda like the finale battle between the Enterprise and the Reman ship though, even if it's just ripping off the finale battle in both 2 and 6. I can totally see why the film bombed, and I hated it when it first came out, but now to me it's just meh.
The film was meant to get a sequel that would have been a TNG/DS9/VOY crossover, written by the same guys, so would have likely sucked, but interesting idea. Also the film was supposed to have Seven of Nine as an officer on the Enterprise.
Star Trek 09 - Surprisingly a rip off of Star Trek Nemesis, almost to the letter. But with a big name director and a new young cast, so everyone loved it, and most still do. I find it painfully more boring and stupid than even Nemesis though, the film is badly edited, the plot absolutely ridiculous and the product placement and Beastie Boys is just cringeworthy in that Star Trek V sorta way. I like the Spock cameo though and the scale of the film at least. But not a good one out of the lot.
A very early version of the film was going to be set in the Enterprise era in the first battle of the Earth-Romulan War, but with a lot of surprising similarities to the final version.
Star Trek Into Darkness - Seems this is one everyone also hates, and while not a good film, it's better than the last one. It's full of cringe, full of stupidity like magic blood that cures death (why did humans ever abandon this?), it requires you to have watched Space Seed or Wrath of Khan to even know what's going on, and I still hate the title. I like the Spock/Khan fistfight though.
Early ideas had the Borg and Q being villains. Another had a baby Picard being featured. Thankfully all of these were shitcanned
Star Trek Beyond - Another really boring film. I don't even remember the plot, something about a captain from the Enterprise era who crashed on a planet after going through a wormhole and now he's an alien who wants to destroy the Federation. I didn't see the point. Major cringe at the Pixar beginning, and it's just a by the numbers boring action flick. I like the scene where Spock looks at the photo, and nothing else that I can remember. Probably my least favorite of the new films.
Looking through this, I realize I don't like the films anywhere as much as the TV series. I hope Discovery is good.
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I actually like IV for what it is: a comedy romp with a somewhat campy plot including some pretty hilarious scenes.
Nothing more, nothing less. Rather watch that one again than Nemesis, Generations, Insurrection or V.
Nothing more, nothing less. Rather watch that one again than Nemesis, Generations, Insurrection or V.
projecteddrama
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The comedy isn't very funny to me though. It's dated 80s humor, and I wasn't alive in the 80s so it flies over my head. I think Star Trek is awful at humor, outside that DS9 episode with tribbles and the one with Quark going to Roswell. It's not as awful as a lot say but its meh. I enjoy watching V more actually
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Opinions.
projecteddrama
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Are like assholes.
I don't hate IV, I just think it's okay. I actually like the time traveling heads scene, which no one seems to mention, because it's so surreal and bizarre
I don't hate IV, I just think it's okay. I actually like the time traveling heads scene, which no one seems to mention, because it's so surreal and bizarre
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It's kinda unfortunate that the movies featuring the Romulans turned out like they did, since they are my favorite Trek villains.
projecteddrama
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Indeed, I never realized that for some reason. They were going to be the villains of 3, which is one of the better films, but oh well. Even Enteprrise handles them better than the films.
Tbf I'm already not a fan of the premise so I'm not the best person to comment on the merits of IV
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I find IV fun, which is what Trek needed after II and III.
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4 is a fun movie. It was released a bit before I was born. But I still think its funny. It wasn't really topical for the time. Except the Cold War bit. And the mouse bit, but come on, that's the way we are headed.
I think they handle curse words well, too. You double dumb ass
I think they handle curse words well, too. You double dumb ass
projecteddrama
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I never liked that, that apparently in the future people don't swear, except when they do.
It comes off way too cheesy and dated for me, and I'm someone who enjoys TOS, but forwhatever reason its 80sness turns me off
It comes off way too cheesy and dated for me, and I'm someone who enjoys TOS, but forwhatever reason its 80sness turns me off
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I like the Abrams movies fine. They're big dumb action movies in star trek clothes, but atleast the cast and crew are suited for it. I honestly think some of the biggest problems with the tng movies come from the fact that too many of the behind the scenes people are too used to doing tv and not movies and don't understand the differences in storytelling and pacing. the other issues is that out of the whole main Tng cast only about half are movie quality actors.
projecteddrama
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My problem with the Abrams films is they're stupid and very boring action movies. Most action films nowadays suck, and these movies just blend right in with them. Beyond was one of the most boring films I've seen in a long time, I don't remember most of it in fact. They're all my least favorite of the films. I even enjoy Star Trek 1 more, given it has interesting ideas behind it.
I've rewatched a good deal of all the series, and surprised that my opinions have changed slighty:
TOS
I haven't seen this series in several years, last time was I think five years ago when I binged watched it with my brother on a local LA channel that was airing reruns of it. Now I've seen a good deal on Netflix, and it's pretty good. Sure, trying to make a series like that nowadays would be a disaster, but beyond all its 60s cheesiness and terrible acting, there's some damn good science fiction and characterization here. The thing I like the most about it is its 60s sci-fi, the thing I hate the most is its 60s sci fi. By that I mean the 50s and 60s had some really cerebral sci fi writing, and some really shitty, cheesy ones too. Star Trek has both. Spcok is an awesome character, so is McCoy and Scotty, and the rest are pretty much meh. The Klingons are laughably bad and stupid looking for the most part, but the Romulans are pretty awesome even in this iteration. The Tholians are cool, and I even like the Gorn. I like the Andorians and Tellarites too. I even kind of like the intro/outro theme song.
Favorite Episodes are: City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, Journey To Babel, Tholian Web, The Ultimate Computer, Balance of Terror, All Our Yesteryears, Errand of Mercy, Mirror Mirror, The Cage.
TNG
I don't think I need to go into why, but the show starts off pretty awful. For whatever reason the cheesy mid 80sness of the first two seasons is often even more cringey than TOS. There's only two, maybe three good episodes in its first two seasons. But that's not the part of TNG most people remember and go back to. By the first episode of the third season, the series got a massive increase in quality, both visually and in writing, and it became the giant cultural hit people still talk about. 90s TNG still largely stands the test of time. In many ways, it's my favorite Star Trek, in some ways not so much. When it comes to pure sci-fi storytelling, it's the best, when it comes to characterization and continuity, it falls behind DS9 by miles. Like with TOS, there's really only three main characters I really like: Picard, Data and Worf. I don't dislike the rest (well I hate Wesley, whos up there with Anakin Skywalker in infuriating characters), they're just not normally as interesting. A lot of the recurring themes and characters like Q, The Borg, holodecks, were all awesome, Overall, it's one of my favorite shows and it's excellent sci-fi, but I think it could have been better with more serialization and drama, but what little it had in those departments was normally good.
Favorite episodes: Hard to pick, since there's so many good episodes, but Q Who, Measure of a Man, The Defector, Yesterdays Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Family, Darmok, The Inner Light, Tapestry, Cause And Effect, Frame of Mind, I, Borg, Chain of Command, Drumhead, The Offspring, Parallels, Lower Decks, Pegasus, All Good Things. Probably a good deal I'm forgetting though.
DS9
The best of Trek IMO though when it first aired, I was a little kid bored with its dialogue and drama, and just wanted to see a spaceship meet aliens and travel the universe. As an adult, and rewatching this series, this one in some ways is leaps and miles ahead of even TNG. I love how the very first scenes of the show are the Battle of Wolf 359, I still rewatch that scene over and over again to this day. Its first two seasons are pretty boring, not first season TNG bad but not very engaging. By its third and fourth season everything starts getting really good with the reveal of the Dominion, manipulation of interstellar events starting coups and wars, and excellent character development all around. I don't think there's one major character of DS9 I dislike, I even like Quark and his family. The show wasn't afraid to step on sacred cows of Trek, and did it to advance storytelling possibilities rather than just to shit on the franchise. It used to be the blacksheep of the franchise but thankfully gets the praise it deserves nowadays.
Favorite episodes: Way of the Warrior, Duet, The Visitor, Trials and Tribble-ations, Paradise Lost/Homefront the six part beginning of season six, the whole nine part finale at the end, the three part introduction of the Dominion, For the Uniform, Chimera, really all the multi part arcs are good. The thing is DS9 is so serial its hard to just find individual episodes that are excellent on their own. In The Pale Moonlight is probably the best one.
Voyager
This is when things go downhill. Conceived as another new, dangerous take on Trek beginning in 1993, by the time it comes out in 1995, executives made sure it would just be a copy of TNG, in an effort to replicate the massive ratings and success TNG had. Its the only Trek series I watched from start to finish as a kid, and I loved it back then. Now, not so much. Of course it's a souless, decayed husk of TNG so that makes sense. Unlike TNG and DS9, it was a networked show, so that brought in all kinds of executive meddling, mostly for the worse. Add to the fact that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were showrunners. Berman had helped clean up the mess of early TNG, but he was a rather conservative tv producer, and that's the last thing Voyager needed, someone who was already conservative who had his attitude reinforced by the success he had experienced. Braga was a good writer (for the most part) on TNG, but becoming showrunner clearly went to his head. Add to the fact that he became a pretty dry, conservative writer himself. He had cool ideas for Voyager that were often shot down by executives, but overall he clearly was getting rusty. The biggest sin is the show wastes its potential. Theyre all alone in a strange part of the galaxy, so make it seem like a pleasure cruise half the time! Theyre in this unexplored part of the galaxy, so make it full of aliens less creative than on previous Treks, and when that fails, just bring in species from previous shows! The Oompa Loopa Kazon are just lame rips of the Klingon, and the Hirogen are lame versions of the Predator, so eventually they just throw in the Borg.
The Borg are a major problem for many people, since they go through massive "villain decay" and were clearly just a ratings ploy and an attempt to make the show more like TNG. TNG treated them with great respect, not using them as a ratings ploy or making many episodes of them, even to a fault (the Borg were to appear in All Good Things in what sounds like a really cool appearence, but Piller shitcanned it). I, Borg is an excellent episode but it's not a proper follow-up to Best of Both Worlds, neither is Descent. We had to wait until one of the films to see them in their full fledeged glory again. What I'm saying is TNG understood the Borg and why fans like them. Voyager on the other hand just uses them like toilet paper because they couldn't think of a better idea half the time. But I think despite this, there's great Borg episodes and Seven of Nine is a good character, most ironically since shes just there for her tits. The Doctor is also awesome. But overall, while I don't hate it, it's not a good show.
Favorite episodes: Blink of an Eye, Tinker Tailor Doctor Spy, Year of Hell, Scorpion, Dark Frontier, Raven, Living Witness, Distant Origin, Unity. That's all I can think of right now, but still rewatching the series.
Enterprise
When things hit rock bottom, at least for most. The series that helped temporarily kill the franchise, but I don't hate it as much as many do upon rewatching it. It has a similar development history to Voyager. It was an interesting idea from Braga and Berman that was mangled by executives, and further mangled by Braga and Bermans conservative approach to writing and characters. What we ended up getting is a truly bizarre mess. Part of the show wants to be TNG (or really Voyager), part of it wants to be contemporary TV, part of it wants to be a throwback to TOS. Characters and even entire episodes are just carbon copied from Voyager, but it's hard to say which one I like less. Enterprise has the truy awful intro and terrible captain, but Voyager had a bad captain too, and the show was far more boring. I don't think the final season of Enterprise is the saving grace some hardcore fans make it out to be, but it is a major improvement from its first three seasons, and even then the third season is a major improvement over the first two. I feel the series was actually more the victim of bad timing and changing attitudes than just being a total pile of shit. I think if it reversed spots with Voyager, Voyager would have suffered the same fate honestly. I do actually enjoy Enterprise in the end, so to me this isn't Star Wars prequels level bad, but it's a low point for the franchise. Well, except for that laughably bad series finale. On a side note, the fourth season would fit well with today's love of continuity and obscure canon, so in that sense, Enterprise was ahead of its time.
Favorite episodes: Cogenitor, The Expanse, Twilight, The Forgotten, Zero Hour, Vulcan Three Parter, Romulan Three Parter, Terra Prime, The Augment Three Parter.
TL; DR: TOS is okay, TNG and DS9 are good, VOY and Enterprise are varying levels of bad. I hope Discovery is not another clunker.
I've rewatched a good deal of all the series, and surprised that my opinions have changed slighty:
TOS
I haven't seen this series in several years, last time was I think five years ago when I binged watched it with my brother on a local LA channel that was airing reruns of it. Now I've seen a good deal on Netflix, and it's pretty good. Sure, trying to make a series like that nowadays would be a disaster, but beyond all its 60s cheesiness and terrible acting, there's some damn good science fiction and characterization here. The thing I like the most about it is its 60s sci-fi, the thing I hate the most is its 60s sci fi. By that I mean the 50s and 60s had some really cerebral sci fi writing, and some really shitty, cheesy ones too. Star Trek has both. Spcok is an awesome character, so is McCoy and Scotty, and the rest are pretty much meh. The Klingons are laughably bad and stupid looking for the most part, but the Romulans are pretty awesome even in this iteration. The Tholians are cool, and I even like the Gorn. I like the Andorians and Tellarites too. I even kind of like the intro/outro theme song.
Favorite Episodes are: City On The Edge Of Forever, Amok Time, Journey To Babel, Tholian Web, The Ultimate Computer, Balance of Terror, All Our Yesteryears, Errand of Mercy, Mirror Mirror, The Cage.
TNG
I don't think I need to go into why, but the show starts off pretty awful. For whatever reason the cheesy mid 80sness of the first two seasons is often even more cringey than TOS. There's only two, maybe three good episodes in its first two seasons. But that's not the part of TNG most people remember and go back to. By the first episode of the third season, the series got a massive increase in quality, both visually and in writing, and it became the giant cultural hit people still talk about. 90s TNG still largely stands the test of time. In many ways, it's my favorite Star Trek, in some ways not so much. When it comes to pure sci-fi storytelling, it's the best, when it comes to characterization and continuity, it falls behind DS9 by miles. Like with TOS, there's really only three main characters I really like: Picard, Data and Worf. I don't dislike the rest (well I hate Wesley, whos up there with Anakin Skywalker in infuriating characters), they're just not normally as interesting. A lot of the recurring themes and characters like Q, The Borg, holodecks, were all awesome, Overall, it's one of my favorite shows and it's excellent sci-fi, but I think it could have been better with more serialization and drama, but what little it had in those departments was normally good.
Favorite episodes: Hard to pick, since there's so many good episodes, but Q Who, Measure of a Man, The Defector, Yesterdays Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Family, Darmok, The Inner Light, Tapestry, Cause And Effect, Frame of Mind, I, Borg, Chain of Command, Drumhead, The Offspring, Parallels, Lower Decks, Pegasus, All Good Things. Probably a good deal I'm forgetting though.
DS9
The best of Trek IMO though when it first aired, I was a little kid bored with its dialogue and drama, and just wanted to see a spaceship meet aliens and travel the universe. As an adult, and rewatching this series, this one in some ways is leaps and miles ahead of even TNG. I love how the very first scenes of the show are the Battle of Wolf 359, I still rewatch that scene over and over again to this day. Its first two seasons are pretty boring, not first season TNG bad but not very engaging. By its third and fourth season everything starts getting really good with the reveal of the Dominion, manipulation of interstellar events starting coups and wars, and excellent character development all around. I don't think there's one major character of DS9 I dislike, I even like Quark and his family. The show wasn't afraid to step on sacred cows of Trek, and did it to advance storytelling possibilities rather than just to shit on the franchise. It used to be the blacksheep of the franchise but thankfully gets the praise it deserves nowadays.
Favorite episodes: Way of the Warrior, Duet, The Visitor, Trials and Tribble-ations, Paradise Lost/Homefront the six part beginning of season six, the whole nine part finale at the end, the three part introduction of the Dominion, For the Uniform, Chimera, really all the multi part arcs are good. The thing is DS9 is so serial its hard to just find individual episodes that are excellent on their own. In The Pale Moonlight is probably the best one.
Voyager
This is when things go downhill. Conceived as another new, dangerous take on Trek beginning in 1993, by the time it comes out in 1995, executives made sure it would just be a copy of TNG, in an effort to replicate the massive ratings and success TNG had. Its the only Trek series I watched from start to finish as a kid, and I loved it back then. Now, not so much. Of course it's a souless, decayed husk of TNG so that makes sense. Unlike TNG and DS9, it was a networked show, so that brought in all kinds of executive meddling, mostly for the worse. Add to the fact that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were showrunners. Berman had helped clean up the mess of early TNG, but he was a rather conservative tv producer, and that's the last thing Voyager needed, someone who was already conservative who had his attitude reinforced by the success he had experienced. Braga was a good writer (for the most part) on TNG, but becoming showrunner clearly went to his head. Add to the fact that he became a pretty dry, conservative writer himself. He had cool ideas for Voyager that were often shot down by executives, but overall he clearly was getting rusty. The biggest sin is the show wastes its potential. Theyre all alone in a strange part of the galaxy, so make it seem like a pleasure cruise half the time! Theyre in this unexplored part of the galaxy, so make it full of aliens less creative than on previous Treks, and when that fails, just bring in species from previous shows! The Oompa Loopa Kazon are just lame rips of the Klingon, and the Hirogen are lame versions of the Predator, so eventually they just throw in the Borg.
The Borg are a major problem for many people, since they go through massive "villain decay" and were clearly just a ratings ploy and an attempt to make the show more like TNG. TNG treated them with great respect, not using them as a ratings ploy or making many episodes of them, even to a fault (the Borg were to appear in All Good Things in what sounds like a really cool appearence, but Piller shitcanned it). I, Borg is an excellent episode but it's not a proper follow-up to Best of Both Worlds, neither is Descent. We had to wait until one of the films to see them in their full fledeged glory again. What I'm saying is TNG understood the Borg and why fans like them. Voyager on the other hand just uses them like toilet paper because they couldn't think of a better idea half the time. But I think despite this, there's great Borg episodes and Seven of Nine is a good character, most ironically since shes just there for her tits. The Doctor is also awesome. But overall, while I don't hate it, it's not a good show.
Favorite episodes: Blink of an Eye, Tinker Tailor Doctor Spy, Year of Hell, Scorpion, Dark Frontier, Raven, Living Witness, Distant Origin, Unity. That's all I can think of right now, but still rewatching the series.
Enterprise
When things hit rock bottom, at least for most. The series that helped temporarily kill the franchise, but I don't hate it as much as many do upon rewatching it. It has a similar development history to Voyager. It was an interesting idea from Braga and Berman that was mangled by executives, and further mangled by Braga and Bermans conservative approach to writing and characters. What we ended up getting is a truly bizarre mess. Part of the show wants to be TNG (or really Voyager), part of it wants to be contemporary TV, part of it wants to be a throwback to TOS. Characters and even entire episodes are just carbon copied from Voyager, but it's hard to say which one I like less. Enterprise has the truy awful intro and terrible captain, but Voyager had a bad captain too, and the show was far more boring. I don't think the final season of Enterprise is the saving grace some hardcore fans make it out to be, but it is a major improvement from its first three seasons, and even then the third season is a major improvement over the first two. I feel the series was actually more the victim of bad timing and changing attitudes than just being a total pile of shit. I think if it reversed spots with Voyager, Voyager would have suffered the same fate honestly. I do actually enjoy Enterprise in the end, so to me this isn't Star Wars prequels level bad, but it's a low point for the franchise. Well, except for that laughably bad series finale. On a side note, the fourth season would fit well with today's love of continuity and obscure canon, so in that sense, Enterprise was ahead of its time.
Favorite episodes: Cogenitor, The Expanse, Twilight, The Forgotten, Zero Hour, Vulcan Three Parter, Romulan Three Parter, Terra Prime, The Augment Three Parter.
TL; DR: TOS is okay, TNG and DS9 are good, VOY and Enterprise are varying levels of bad. I hope Discovery is not another clunker.
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- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
Crosspost from another thread, but what do you think of what Voyager did to Q and the Q?
Not really a fan. I don't think they ruined the Q forever or anything, it was just meh imo.
I've been rewatching some voyager lately. I'm still hyper autistic over Janeway. The Andy Dick episode is pretty hilarious, again, I'm one of those people that like the stupid comic relief episodes.
Rewatched the episode where Neelix dies, gets revived and tries to commit suicide. Why did the writers pick Neelix for this? I think I've complained about this before.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2014
If there's an alien race that suffered worse than the Borg on Voyager, it's the Q. "All Good Things..." was an excellent send-off for the character. Sure, they brought him back for DS9, and the Voyager episode "Death Wish" but the butchery didn't really begin until "The Q and the Grey". The first half of the episode is one of the most eye-gougingly unfunny attempts at comedy I've ever seen and seriously demeans the Q character, the second half is a laughable depiction of the Q continuum which contradicts a lot of established continuity. That's not even mentioning "Q2" - a lame bottle show that serves as the character's send-off and introduces us to his infuriating offspring. Seriously, fuck what Voyager did to the Q.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
How does it do that?
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2014
"A lot" is a bit hyperbolic, but a really glaring one is that they say that the child Q intends to have is the first Q child... completely forgetting about Amanda Rogers from "True Q". I think (I haven't seen the episode in a while because I value my brain cells) they might have worded it as "the first child born in the Continuum" which would be technically correct as Amanda Rogers was born outside the Continuum, but Voyager hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt.