Red Letter Media

[Nosredna]

The prequels weren't mid movies, at least by the standards of the time. They were bad. Had George Lucas been content with developing the story and delegated the script writing to others, they likely would have gone from cartoonish to competent, been perfectly OK and still made a lot of money.

They would not have left us with this, and that would have been sad - nay, tragic. https://youtu.be/9DI5WyiHQno?si=nHinqq9Ci8LgiHD0

 

[TATE MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODE!!]

Kinda speaks volumes that both you and I saw such a ridiculous name and just accepted it as a modern Star Wars character name without question.

To be fair GL made Dexter Jettster.

 

[Mola Ram]

To be fair GL made Dexter Jettster.

Not to mention Elan Sleazebaggano.

 

[Psyduck]

Jay is definitely the most indie movie type out of all of them. He'd actually benefit a lot from watching horror anime, oddly enough. Anything by Junji Ito or Kentaro Miura is something that he'd be into, but has no interest in exploring, which is kind of annoying from a liberal arts perspective.

Cant say for sure if Jay thinks the same, but i relate to that a lot. I *want* to like anime. I look at Berserk and i wanna take a shot at it, i look at Ito compilations and i find them fascinating...

...But then i look at the people who enjoy them talking about waifus and just how many ways they have to jerk off to it and i find it extremely repelling. There's this feeling of "How good can it really be when it attracts this kind of fandom?" that i know is not true, but for some reason it just lingers around and makes me not wanna jump into the wagon

Also, apparently Kentaro never got to finish Berserk, either... It's gonna suck when i finally pick it up only to realize it doesnt have an ending down the line

 

[McMitch]

Also, apparently Kentaro never got to finish Berserk, either... It's gonna suck when i finally pick it up only to realize it doesnt have an ending down the line

There’s like three or four stopping points that, while not a complete story, are cathartic enough to justify ending there. Frankly, I’d consider reading up until Miura’s death for the artwork of nothing else.

 

[sneedem&feedem]

The prequels weren't mid movies, at least by the standards of the time. They were bad. Had George Lucas been content with developing the story and delegated the script writing to others, they likely would have gone from cartoonish to competent, been perfectly OK and still made a lot of money.

George Lucas asked Lawrence Kasdan to come back to write the prequels but he passed. Lucas also asked Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis, and even Stephen Spielberg to direct them but they all refused and said the Lucas himself should direct.

This idea (ironically amplified by RLM) that Lucas became some huge egomaniac by the time of the Prequels is just hogwash. Everyone justifiably seemed super intimidated to work on them.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

George Lucas asked Lawrence Kasdan to come back to write the prequels but he passed. Lucas also asked Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis, and even Stephen Spielberg to direct them but they all refused and said the Lucas himself should direct.

This idea (ironically amplified by RLM) that Lucas became some huge egomaniac by the time of the Prequels is just hogwash. Everyone justifiably seemed super intimidated to work on them.

Marquand famously said directing RotJ was like having Shakespeare in the room.

Star Wars is a tricky business when you get down to it because it's more than Flash Gordon Nostalgia. No slight to these directors, but there's a distinct religious/mythological element to the movies that most people just cannot perceive because Gen Xers and down are divorced from any religion. So, if you don't understand Campbell (TBF, his book is quite difficult for those unaware of comparative religions) or Lord Raglan, you can't even attempt to recreate the mythic feel of these movies. Disney and Hollywood took RLM and The People v. George Lucas people and Kevin Smith advice for making "good Star Wars" and made TFA. TFA is exactly the sort of movie a copycat makes where it superficially looks like Star Wars, but then doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[TheHarbinger]

This idea (ironically amplified by RLM) that Lucas became some huge egomaniac by the time of the Prequels is just hogwash. Everyone justifiably seemed super intimidated to work on them.

Lucas's interviews about the special editions of the original Star Wars movies contradict this though. As well as Lucas's contract with Disney that forbids them from using the original theatrical versions or releasing them in any format anywhere. You will probably never see the original theatrical trilogy ever released again. Lucas even forbid the Library of Congress to have prints when they requested them.

Lucas himself has given many bizarre reasons over the years about the myriad of changes of Han Solo shooting first, then second, then Greedo yelling "maclunkey!" out loud. His explanations for the constant changes and second guessing of that scene make him seem indecisive or just outright insane. If Lucas had the same attitude making the prequels as he did for making the special editions then he probably was impossible to reason with at all. Lots of the actors on set said that Lucas was a terrible communicator and would not give them proper directions at all.

I don't know if Lucas became an egomaniac. Or just lost his artistic touch. Or just was exhausted and had no determination to see things done properly. But his sheer hatred over the original movies and making all the changes to them is one of the weirdest choices any major filmmaker has probably made to his own works.

 

[Protistology]

I don't know if Lucas became an egomaniac. Or just lost his artistic touch. Or just was exhausted and had no determination to see things done properly. But his sheer hatred over the original movies and making all the changes to them is one of the weirdest choices any major filmmaker has probably made to his own works.

It's because his ex-wife Marcia edited those movies and advised him on scenes. His changes was just removing her influence.

 

[I'm a Silly]

Lucas's interviews about the special editions of the original Star Wars movies contradict this though. As well as Lucas's contract with Disney that forbids them from using the original theatrical versions or releasing them in any format anywhere. You will probably never see the original theatrical trilogy ever released again. Lucas even forbid the Library of Congress to have prints when they requested them.

Lucas himself has given many bizarre reasons over the years about the myriad of changes of Han Solo shooting first, then second, then Greedo yelling "maclunkey!" out loud. His explanations for the constant changes and second guessing of that scene make him seem indecisive or just outright insane. If Lucas had the same attitude making the prequels as he did for making the special editions then he probably was impossible to reason with at all. Lots of the actors on set said that Lucas was a terrible communicator and would not give them proper directions at all.

I don't know if Lucas became an egomaniac. Or just lost his artistic touch. Or just was exhausted and had no determination to see things done properly. But his sheer hatred over the original movies and making all the changes to them is one of the weirdest choices any major filmmaker has probably made to his own works.

At first I was going to say that he seems like one of those dysmorphic Catwoman/Bogdanoff people with such severe mental illness that they can't stop fucking up their faces...

It's because his ex-wife Marcia edited those movies and advised him on scenes. His changes was just removing her influence.

... but it turns out that "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" is a more apt analogy.

 

[Flexo]

Cant say for sure if Jay thinks the same, but i relate to that a lot. I *want* to like anime. I look at Berserk and i wanna take a shot at it, i look at Ito compilations and i find them fascinating...

...But then i look at the people who enjoy them talking about waifus and just how many ways they have to jerk off to it and i find it extremely repelling. There's this feeling of "How good can it really be when it attracts this kind of fandom?" that i know is not true, but for some reason it just lingers around and makes me not wanna jump into the wagon

Also, apparently Kentaro never got to finish Berserk, either... It's gonna suck when i finally pick it up only to realize it doesnt have an ending down the line

Anime is just a style/genre. It would be the equivalent of me saying, "man I'd like to watch movies but then I see weirdos like this Jay fellow and I feel repelled." And then I never watch movies like the Godfather or the Wizard of Oz or.... "How good can movies be if they attract these RLM weirdos?"

Just try stuff and see if you like it.

... but it turns out that "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" is a more apt analogy.

It wasn't exactly his idea. She had an affair with one of the contractors helping build Skywalker ranch. In more than one way, Lucas was a victim of Star Wars success.

There are some signs the man is a bit on the spectrum (like he'll only write on a specific type of pad) and it does seem like he needed a woman's touch to give the films a bit of heart. Story goes he wanted to cut the kiss Leia gives Luke for luck in the original film and it was Marsha who encouraged him to keep it in.

(The truly greatest writers in the world realize their boundaries and limitations and seek out others to help them cover those weaknesses.)

 

[sneedem&feedem]

It's because his ex-wife Marcia edited those movies and advised him on scenes. His changes was just removing her influence.

Marcia's influence is heavily exaggerated. George had to bring in two additional editors due to the workload and she eventually left before editing even finished to work on Martin Scorsese's New York, New York. Her editing instincts should also be questioned. For example, she was championing the beginning part of the film to be intercut with scenes of Luke and his friends like in the original script. Marcia's scenes were cut and Biggs Darklighter's introduction was removed so his reveal back at the prep for the Death Star assault is lost on everybody. And yet nobody cares because the film is better if the first time we see Tattoine is after R2-D2 and C3PO first arrive.

 

[Gin-san]

"Oh, they look pretty good in comparison now, don't they?" No, they don't.

Seriously, I'm getting real sick of prequel apologists trying to convince me that the prequel trilogy is actually good because Disney Star Wars is so bad. It's like trying to argue that smallpox wasn't so bad because AIDS exists now. In the 2000s, the prequels were considered to be comically bad movies and the fact that we have people trying to claim otherwise now just goes to show how far standards have fallen. Are the prequels more enjoyable to watch than Disney SW? Absolutely, but not in the way that George Lucas intended. For me, I get the same type of enjoyment from watching The Phantom Menace that I get from watching The Room or Troll 2.

 

[Nosredna]

This idea (ironically amplified by RLM) that Lucas became some huge egomaniac by the time of the Prequels is just hogwash. Everyone justifiably seemed super intimidated to work on them.

I'm not suggesting that, just that he should have known that script development isn't his greatest strength. Easy to say in retrospect, perhaps.

And my point is, those who were around at the time didn't need RLM to tell us what to think about the prequels. They were a punchline in the 2000s, though not in a mean or derisive way. The Plinkett videos unfortunately gave a voice to the minority of fans who took it all too personally as well as the more neutral filmgoers, but from Mike's attitude since I think that was an unintended consequence.

 

[Shartavius]

I get the same type of enjoyment from watching The Phantom Menace that I get from watching The Room or Troll 2.

This is why I've watched the Joss Whedon Justice League three times with different comedic commentary tracks, and the Snyder Cut only once out of morbid curiosity.

 

[Cryogonal2]

...But then i look at the people who enjoy them talking about waifus and just how many ways they have to jerk off to it and i find it extremely repelling.

I can understand being put off by a bad fanbase, but I probably wouldn't have watched the original trilogy at all if that was my issue with Star Wars. Or RedLetterMedia. Wouldn't have played about half the games I've played. Or any indie games.

 

[starborn427614]

I can understand being put off by a bad fanbase, but I probably wouldn't have watched the original trilogy at all if that was my issue with Star Wars. Or RedLetterMedia. Wouldn't have played about half the games I've played. Or any indie games.

Generally speaking, if you're actually interested in something some retards in a given fanbase won't dull your enjoyment. That's been the case for me, anyway.

 

[Flexo]

This is why I've watched the Joss Whedon Justice League three times with different comedic commentary tracks, and the Snyder Cut only once out of morbid curiosity.

Oh I enjoy doing that. Which commentary tracks are you listening to?

 

[Shartavius]

Oh I enjoy doing that. Which commentary tracks are you listening to?

You can search for them on the Suprbay forum. It's been a few years; so I only recall RLM, We Hate Movies, and some other umemorable personality I was otherwise unfamiliar with. I first watched the film at my local empty theater bar on a day off from work, and had a blast laughing at it; so I would use commentary tracks as an excuse to rewatch it as they were released. I hope Jaboody Dubs eventually does one for it.

 

[Pissmaster]

Generally speaking, if you're actually interested in something some retards in a given fanbase won't dull your enjoyment. That's been the case for me, anyway.

It depends on how much you have to interact with them. If you're into a particular game, and you want to explore mods for it, but the mods are gatekept by the community for whatever reason, you'll have to deal with those faggots to some degree. It's very obnoxious when something you want is gated behind a Discord community where you have to ask for approval.