🦊 Furry Furry Fandom and Drama General

[Hatputer]

Who are they selling? The largest demographic are Fagots and If its art/Fursuit it isn't gay.

When you have a Fandom that's 95% horny autistic guys, they take the holes they can get. I don't think most furries enter the Fandom "gay" they just get groomed into accepting they won't find a furry girlfriend and constantly having gay furry porn shoved in their face.

I've met more "straight furries" that wind up posting themselves getting plowed on Twitter a year or so down the line, than actual straight furries.

Also, you have no idea how desperate those few actually straight furries are. Realistically they still have a better chance finding a girlfriend in the Fandom than in real life, and every attractive furry girl has unlimited spergs to chose from. Add in a likely somewhat decent job and a complete lack of positive spending habits, I'm sure the fursuit cam whores do great. Find any random mid girl on Twitter that post porn, and they will have tens of thousands of followers.

 

[GumballFapper]

I've met more "straight furries" that wind up posting themselves getting plowed on Twitter a year or so down the line, than actual straight furries.

Even on e621, "m/f" has 631k posts while "m/m" has 460k posts. Even in the pits of degeneracy straights are the majority

It's just that fags are very loud and can't ever shut the fuck up. By the time you unironically "identify" as a furry you're too far gone

 

[Mikoyan]

Even on e621, "m/f" has 631k posts while "m/m" has 460k posts. Even in the pits of degeneracy straights are the majority

It's just that fags are very loud and can't ever shut the fuck up. By the time you unironically "identify" as a furry you're too far gone

I really wish it was possible to have statistics over time for this. My feeling would be it was more gay-skewed in the late 90s for example, but there's no data out there.

I suppose one could by getting one of the VCL archives out there and doing a year by year count but that would be a lot of looking at furry porn.

 

[Law]

Maybe it's not actually gay skewed, just male skewed. So you end up with like 80% dudes, 20% chicks, and of those 80% dudes 10% are gay, and then the rest have to sort of go prison-gay? Or old-timey Navy gay?

 

[Mikoyan]

Maybe it's not actually gay skewed, just male skewed. So you end up with like 80% dudes, 20% chicks, and of those 80% dudes 10% are gay, and then the rest have to sort of go prison-gay? Or old-timey Navy gay?

In the olden days this was the prevailing theory, yep. I think it's still fairly true.

 

[Law]

In the olden days this was the prevailing theory, yep. I think it's still fairly true.

Someone who knows computers should make one of those god-game predator-prey population simulation things about this.
We'll never get accurate numbers from self reporting from men who think they're girl children that also wolves.
Is there a certain percentage of horny men that a fandom can absorb, without succumbing to degeneracy and horror? Is there a tipping point for this percentage, and if so, what it is?

 

[California Newt]

Even on e621, "m/f" has 631k posts while "m/m" has 460k posts. Even in the pits of degeneracy straights are the majority

It's just that fags are very loud and can't ever shut the fuck up. By the time you unironically "identify" as a furry you're too far gone

I don't think that math checks out:

Gays make up—speaking liberally—an estimation of maybe three-to-five-percent of the population of the US (can't speak for elsewhere).
To get a proportionate result, then, you'd have to multiply the gay side by 20.

That's be a ratio of 631/9200, which is roughly 7%.

Adjusting for relative population sizes, a given instance of furry porn on e621 has a 93% likelihood of being gay—that's 43% gayer than the (adjusted) general population of the United States.

When you have a Fandom that's 95% horny autistic guys, they take the holes they can get. I don't think most furries enter the Fandom "gay" they just get groomed into accepting they won't find a furry girlfriend and constantly having gay furry porn shoved in their face.

I've met more "straight furries" that wind up posting themselves getting plowed on Twitter a year or so down the line, than actual straight furries.

Also, you have no idea how desperate those few actually straight furries are. Realistically they still have a better chance finding a girlfriend in the Fandom than in real life, and every attractive furry girl has unlimited spergs to chose from. Add in a likely somewhat decent job and a complete lack of positive spending habits, I'm sure the fursuit cam whores do great. Find any random mid girl on Twitter that post porn, and they will have tens of thousands of followers.

While desperation plays a part in it, I think it's important to also remember that gay furry porn is a lot easier to get into than normal gay porn.

It has a few things going for it:

1. Visual shorthand for personality traits—especially important for autistic men, although men in general are visual creatures and the shorthand helps to establish a pseudo-personality attraction.
2. More clean—it's not a bunch of ugly, drugged-out guys who are clearly about to die.
3. You can take it at your own pace: it's much easier to find non-penetrative acts that you're looking for and not get blindsided by anal contortion in the sidebar, like on live-action tube sites (this has probably saved a lot of people from becoming gay). You can also leave out a certain level of resoluton: if certain parts of the male body gross you out you can just choose a drawing that doesn't include or focus on that. For some godforsaken reason, all non-furry gay stuff seems to focus on armpits (you see more of that in furry stuff too now, it seems). Shit's disgusting.
4. Idealized fantasy anatomy: anal looks like something plausible and not a like a war crime (as it does in real life).
5. Covers the face. Doesn't feel like extended fraternal incest; it's also easier to sexualize something that you read as more 'god' than 'man'; it's a lot like an Aztec ritual mask.
6. Often made by people who don't have gay sex offline: stuff made by confused weirdos can have more of a heart and humanity to it, as opposed to the fundamentally dark tone of stuff made by the more "experienced".

In other words, I think it's easy to go in prison-gay but come out with a real attraction. There's a moment where it "clicks" and even though you might not act on it in the future (as it does make genuine friendship difficult if not impossible, not to mention religious reasons), you never stop being able to see it.

That being said, a lot of what goes on isn't so much genuine attraction to others so much as it is an auto-erotic source of narcissistic supply for insecure personalities. These guys all troon out these days I'm pretty sure

 

[Corn Flakes]

While desperation plays a part in it, I think it's important to also remember that gay furry porn is a lot easier to get into than normal gay porn.
(...)
In other words, I think it's easy to go in prison-gay but come out with a real attraction. There's a moment where it "clicks" and even though you might not act on it in the future (as it does make genuine friendship difficult if not impossible, not to mention religious reasons), you never stop being able to see it.

I've watched this happening multiple times throughout the years: some painfully straight but horny and/or lonely guy starts hanging out with furries. He makes his first fursona, and insists he only jacks it to straight porn or lesbian stuff. Eventually he becomes friends with a gay furry (or a group) who lovebombs the crap out of him. He starts "experimenting" in roleplays, and starts adding more dick to his favorites. Maybe he gets into dickgirls. "It's just pictures", after all.

The situation keeps evolving from there, until he decides to finally meet his friends at a convention. Goes to a room party, witnesses the sausage party, and through a combination of alcohol, drugs and/or peer pressure he agrees to partake. It's usually awkward and unpleasant since actual gay sex is a far messier, smellier and weirder experience than the usual "two thrusts and a huge cumshot" you see in drawn porn, but since everybody tells him he did great, and it's not like he can take back the sore asshole he's now nursing, he decides he likes it. And there you have it: another freshly-minted gay furry, ready to inflict the same process he underwent upon the next wide-eyed lonely idiot that decides to give that "furry" thing a try.

If I had a nickel for every time I talked to someone who had just returned from a furcon confused about what had happened and whether or not he wanted to give someone (or multiple someones) a blowjob the night before, I'd have at least a quarter by now. There's an ungodly amount of grooming going on in that community.

 

[California Newt]

@Corn Flakes

It's usually awkward and unpleasant since actual gay sex is a far messier, smellier and weirder experience

Falling sensation in the stomach; abrasive bitterness in the chest. Within the right threshold it gives a dark, smoky flavor to the experience—it's a form of pain in your soul (which is dying), but any pain below your tolerance threshold just reads as tension (which enhances pleasure). All pleasure is just tension and release.

It's a lot like the IPA Bitterness Scale, where bitterness is measured in "IBUs" (International Bitterness Units). At first the taste puts you off, but once you get used to it you can learn to appreciate it and want more. Just like with IPAs, eventually you turn into a huge fag and never shut up about it.

You get a little bit of that over VC, but aren't typically prepared for the magnitude when you meet the person—especially if it's a stranger or someone you aren't comfortable around in person yet. You figure out pretty quick that what you were dealing with before was an abstract representation of attractive male qualities, and not a man in the holistic sense.

The porn made by experienced gays tends to be so dark because the experience is addiction to death. They're energized sexually by the sensation of spiritual (and physical) death which, through the sexual machinery in the lizard-brain, they've linked to their sense of vitality.

It's the sweet smell of second-hand smoke.

It's a tremendous crime that so many people's experience and understanding of creative fraternal eros is locked behind this initiatory, coded death worship. It's just one of the many routes to the basin of hedonic antinomian annihilationism. I'm going to include a relevant statement from another thread about furries and lolifags:

Spoiler: lolifags, furries, and hedonic antinomian annihilationism

Some people are just self-taught—you can get into anything with enough elbow grease.

Mentally, I mean.

The thing to understand about lolifags is that, if they don't like to think of themselves as being under the pedophile umbrella, they the make the distinction that what they're doing is all on the Autism Plane and doesn't correspond to reality; they'd say that you're taking it too literally.

The best comparison is furries: the animal imagery is mostly analogical and meant to represent qualities of a person. It doesn't really cross the line into being zoophilic outright (rather than just autistic) until the appeal is that it's meant to be an animal—when guys start calling drawn dog vaginas "cookies", for example, and focusing heavily on the animal anatomy in a literal and non-analogical sense.

Furries have the distinction between "anthro" (human-shaped with animal attributes) and "feral" (animal-shaped with human soul". They distinguish both of these from "animal" (neither human shape nor soul).

You'll notice that these distinctions don't stop tons of real-world animals from being raped in their subculture.

What I've described are, in reality, more accurately described as initiatory stages towards annihilationist hedonistic antinomianism than distinct "orientations" (to use the child abusing trans-inventor John Money's term). The purpose is to simultaneously deny and affirm the reality of the next initiatory degree: this allows the frog to boil—the initiate is told that he's in no danger of going further (which keeps him from leaving), while at the same time he's immersed in the ethos of the next stage until he's acclimated enough to move deeper by his own free will.

This is the same model that freemasonry uses, by the way, and is the point of their rituals.

Even so, animal rape is arguably much more common with "feral" and "animal" enjoyers than anthro-only types, who see the latter two as the dog-rapists and may never progress to the next stages (although they might still rape animals for boilerplate-hedonist-auto-humiliation fetish reasons rather than for dog-lust).

Lolifags try to use the same rationale, but are even less successful: there's no such thing as an "anthropomorphic fifth-grader". Lolifags only have equivalents of "feral" ("1000 year old dragon in a child's body) and "animal" ("um it's not pedophilia because it's not real").

It's ironic that both groups tend to hate each other when they all, at the highest degree of their initiation, meet at the same basin full of tranny gooner blackmailed openly Satan worshipping (and often posessed; I've come across "prophets of the porn goddess" who claimed to have visions) fed assets and pleasure-through-death-craving annihilationist methheads anyhow.

By the way, I saw someone earlier giving Buddhism a pass just because they're quiet—there's a lot of crypto-annihilationism going on there, too. People need to be more wary. The guys destroy sand-mandalas; those things represent the soul and also the cosmos. Some of these guys are trying to snuff out the universe. Wouldn't be surprised if once you get into the deepest gooner-spook discord DM group you take a plane ticket to Tibet.

The point of me posting this is that gays work the same way. The spirit of death-love is implicit in homosexuality.

If anyone's interested, I've also got a longer writeup on friendship, eros, and the philosophical categories that make everyone think of these things in terms of sex (as well as potential alternatives to this system of mental and spiritual slavery) in the serious LGBT discussion thread. I'd appreciate any thoughts.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Lolifags try to use the same rationale, but are even less successful: there's no such thing as an "anthropomorphic fifth-grader". Lolifags only have equivalents of "feral" ("1000 year old dragon in a child's body) and "animal" ("um it's not pedophilia because it's not real").

I will say "roricons", as I like to call them (in hopes to piss them off but as I am usually too about that) are the equivalent of libertarians/libertines in terms of sexual fetishes. They are degenerates full of "gotcha" arguments and really like to come across as seeming like they have 300IQ with their "irrefutable arguments" about 'why Lolicon should be legal and stay legal', paraphrasing. As usual, they use of a questionable point "The government has no right to control things, as they are morally broken" (correct, this can be argued and agreed upon), yet they then go: "therefore, we have the right to be hedonistic however as we please". Furries cannot seem to grasp any convincing argument and just rally in the LGHDTV+ flag, because of its sheer sodomy, probably as a force to push boundaries on what's ridiculous (zoophilia and MAYBE necrophilia?).

Still, there's an overwhelming difference which shows how pornbrain lolifags tend to be more into the "edgy" side which could be seen as right wing (OMG LET PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS!!!!111).

 

[AnOminous]

The point of me posting this is that gays work the same way. The spirit of death-love is implicit in homosexuality.

This was way too many words just to say fags are gay.

 

[Otis Boi]

The porn made by experienced gays tends to be so dark because the experience is addiction to death.

Do you have a lot of experience watching gay porn made by experienced gays? Where are you getting this information from? Why do you have such knowledge what what faggots do? Why did you feel the need to write all this?

The situation keeps evolving from there, until he decides to finally meet his friends at a convention. Goes to a room party, witnesses the sausage party, and through a combination of alcohol, drugs and/or peer pressure he agrees to partake. It's usually awkward and unpleasant since actual gay sex is a far messier, smellier and weirder experience than the usual "two thrusts and a huge cumshot" you see in drawn porn, but since everybody tells him he did great, and it's not like he can take back the sore asshole he's now nursing, he decides he likes it. And there you have it: another freshly-minted gay furry, ready to inflict the same process he underwent upon the next wide-eyed lonely idiot that decides to give that "furry" thing a try.

Anal Sex isn't something you just do unless you want your ass ripped open and shit everywhere. Sorry to say but your friend went there to get his ass fucked.

 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

It doesn't quite come across as such from reports, but Victoria Heuermann, daughter of Rex Heuermann aka the alleged Long Island Serial Killer, is a furry who reblogged cannibal material on Tumblr. While she obviously didn't have anything to do with his murders, it goes to show you how depraved the furry community truly is.

(I might also add that there's a bit of an outrage about breaching her personal integrity in the True Crime Community - if I ever get around to actually making a thread about that I might expand on this sort of lolrious faux outrage where people wank themselves over being the most pure hearted soul while also consuming true crime gore media)

 

[California Newt]

This was way too many words just to say fags are gay.

It's odd, because the my post before that was similar but had a better reception. Not complaining, though. I'll have to be quiet until I can figure out the difference between them.

Can't win 'em all I guess.

Do you have a lot of experience watching gay porn made by experienced gays? Where are you getting this information from? Why do you have such knowledge what what faggots do?

What an odd series of questions. Obviously I'm writing from a position of personal experience. What gave you the impression that I was trying to hide that? The detailed breakdown of gay furry porn psychology?

Why did you feel the need to write all this?

That's a better question. The simple answer is that I enjoy breaking down these kinds of processes. When it gets too long I usually try to spoiler it. Maybe I should have done that here.

A longer answer, regarding why I feel a need to write about this topic specifically, is linked in the inline spoiler at the bottom of the post you're quoting.

Apologies for the double-post. I figured it out. Got tunnel-vision and didn't notice I'd continued beyond the scope of the conversation. Took some time away from the screen for things to reset.

I think the biggest difference between weebs and furries is that weebs aren't encouraged to make OCs . . .

Furries, on the other hand, make a character to represent themselves as the very first rite of passage among them. And they're heavily encouraged by their peers to act out their sexual fantasies as their characters in roleplay. The coombrain comes as part of the group identity, and has a knock-on effect on everything they do.

But yeah this is a really good point. It's about your fursona, and as things are there's really nothing to do with your "fursona" other than sexual stuff. Furries have no lore to work with. If you have any kind of consistent set of worldbuilding or context for characters to act in, then there'd be something solid for the autism to latch onto and start building.

In the absence of that, they have to fall back on coom dynamics; it's the only "rule system" for them to use—or at least the easiest and most profitable one to default to. You could theoretically transmute those dynamics out of the sexual context and have something better (which is my major fixation), but that'd have to be a splinter group—or just a separate unrelated thing entirely—with how committed the organizers and tastemakers of that "fandom" are to sex politics.

The MLP community may have been similarly depraved (having a ton of overlap), but they at least made other stuff and had giant writing communities. You could honestly say that they weren't about sex. Furries can't really have that like weebs and other groups can. The best they could do, without a common lore, is come with something that's like sex, but isn't.

 

[Desumorphine]

People often forget that "Gay/bi but only for furry art" is a very, very common theme in the fandom. there's no shortage of people that have no problem fapping to something outside of their real-life orientation as long as it's animal genitals or at least is attached to an anthropomorphic figure.

 

[Otis Boi]

What an odd series of questions. Obviously I'm writing from a position of personal experience. What gave you the impression that I was trying to hide that? The detailed breakdown of gay furry porn psychology?

Just wondering a lot of times you'll get straight guys talking about gay sex like they have knowledge about. At least I hope you are gay because seeking out degenerate gay porn would be sad otherwise

It's odd, because the my post before that was similar but had a better reception. Not complaining, though. I'll have to be quiet until I can figure out the difference between them.

The difference is one of the post sounds way more up it's own ass.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

This reads self loathing at best and schizophrenic at worst. I understand what you are trying to say but it just comes off like autistic rambling.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Anal Sex isn't something you just do unless you want your ass ripped open and shit everywhere. Sorry to say but your friend went there to get his ass fucked.

Yes, and? AFAIK, four out of the five guys I was talking about had bought Bad Dragons before going to the convention. Their furry friends insisted: "give it a try, you'll love it!". The question wasn't whether or not they went there to get their asses fucked. They knew about the room parties (hell, furries can't stop talking about them), you don't go to one of those to play Monopoly.

The issue is that I got the very definite impression that none of them actually enjoyed it all that much (one of them got diagnosed with an anal fissure afterwards), but told themselves they did because they had already gone so far and these were the only people who ever showed sexual interest in them. That's the fucked up part. I'll give way more respect to a guy who tries gay stuff, decides he doesn't like it and never does it again, compared to someone who gaslights himself into thinking he does because his "friends" keep talking about how much they want to rail his ass.

 

[TroonsDid911]

I think all this talk about furries being overrepresented by gay people because its got straight guys going "prison gay" is being a little to .

Prison gay happens because a bunch of guys are locked up for years at a time with other guys and no sexual outlet. They have their gay sex but they go straight back to women once they get out.

Furries on the other hand are flaming even by gay person standards. The bright rainbow colored fursonas, openly identifying as gay / bi, the lisping speech patterns, the incessant attention whoring and drama. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who are opportunistically gay when it gets their dick off but have a preference for women but those guys are just bisexual. A straight person doesn't enjoy sex with men, period. Any kind of interest in male on male sexual activity that isn't brought on by literally being locked in a cage with other men is just bisexuality / gay.

If it walks like a fag, talks like fag, fucks like a fag and openly identifies as a fag(which the vast majority of furries seem to do) then its a fucking fag.

Source - a fag.

 

[California Newt]

Just wondering a lot of times you'll get straight guys talking about gay sex like they have knowledge about. At least I hope you are gay because seeking out degenerate gay porn would be sad otherwise

I don't think this thread wants to see a detailed breakdown of my sexual history.

I'll tell you about someone else, though, and maybe that'll answer your question while also being thread-relevant. One time I came across a guy online who was in his mid fifties, who'd been a furry for thirty years. What I noticed about his taste in porn was that all of the gay stuff seemed to be "femboys". Thirty years, and he never got into muscular (cartoon animal) men. It's all just these diet-women.

It shocked me, because I had assumed that that was impossible and that masculine stuff "clicking" at some point was an inevitability on a long enough time-frame—say, maybe, a few months to half a decade. It's the only time I've ever wondered if there might be some kind of innate component to this, but I still doubt it. He probably just wasn't particularly creative.

I have to assume that that's what you mean by a straight person "seeking out degenerate gay porn"—settling for diet women. I don't think that these things are innate or immutable so much as that if you learn to wrap your head around something you never stop being able to, but I think we're on the same page on the "straight people looking at gay porn" question.

Of course, that assumes that he's reading "femboys" as "diet women" and not "diet little boys". That vibe is a big part of why they always creeped me out. You can throw that in the "no thank you" box along with the "ferals" with the detailed dog vaginas, thank you very much. Rather not wrap my head around that—pretty sure those units transfer, if you know what I mean.

I think all this talk about furries being overrepresented by gay people because its got straight guys going "prison gay" is being a little to .

Prison gay happens because a bunch of guys are locked up for years at a time with other guys and no sexual outlet. They have their gay sex but they go straight back to women once they get out.

Furries on the other hand are flaming even by gay person standards. The bright rainbow colored fursonas, openly identifying as gay / bi, the lisping speech patterns, the incessant attention whoring and drama. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who are opportunistically gay when it gets their dick off but have a preference for women but those guys are just bisexual. A straight person doesn't enjoy sex with men, period. Any kind of interest in male on male sexual activity that isn't brought on by literally being locked in a cage with other men is just bisexuality / gay.

If it walks like a fag, talks like fag, fucks like a fag and openly identifies as a fag(which the vast majority of furries seem to do) then its a fucking fag.

Source - a fag.

Yeah I think all the "secret straight" allegations are forgetting the miles of obsessively-drawn phallus coming hot off their presses like they're the FED trying to mint their way out of an economic collapse.

If it were just a prison-gay thing, then when they left the community (such as when they join certain religious spheres) they wouldn't talk about dick like they're trying to get over a crack habit.

This reads self loathing at best and schizophrenic at worst. I understand what you are trying to say but it just comes off like autistic rambling.

It's definitely autistic: if there's enough signal-to-noise for you to understand it, I'm happy. Thank you for taking the time to read it. I don't hate myself.

Spoiler: Hmm

I can write about these topics for upwards of twelve hours uninterrupted on here (and presumably elsewhere), neglecting food and showering if I'm not careful. It's incredibly cathartic and dopaminergic. Maybe I oughtta block the website for another week.

Edit: Yeah, at least a week. Now that I think of it I know exactly what's going on. Need to stop picking the scab.

Spoiler: excerpt from C.S. Lewis' "The Great Divorce"

I saw coming towards us a Ghost who carried something on his shoulder. Like all the Ghosts, he was unsubstantial, but they differed from one another as smokes differ. Some had been whitish; this one was dark and oily. What sat on his shoulder was a little red lizard, and it was twitching its tail like a whip and whispering things in his ear. As we caught sight of him he turned his head to the reptile with a snarl of impatience. "Shut up, I tell you!" he said. It wagged its tail and continued to whisper to him. He ceased snarling, and presently began to smile. Then he turned and started to limp westward, away from the mountains.

"Off so soon?" said a voice.

The speaker was more or less human in shape but larger than a man, and so bright that I could hardly look at him. His presence smote on my eyes and on my body too (for there was heat coming from him as well as light) like the morning sun at the beginning of a tyrannous summer day.

"Yes. I'm off," said the Ghost. "Thanks for all your hospitality. But it's no good, you see. I told this little chap," (here he indicated the lizard), "that he'd have to be quiet if he came -which he insisted on doing. Of course his stuff won't do here: I realise that. But he won't stop. I shall just have to go home."

"Would you like me to make him quiet?" said the flaming Spirit-an angel, as I now understood.

"Of course I would," said the Ghost.

"Then I will kill him," said the Angel, taking a step forward.

"Oh-ah-look out! You're burning me. Keep away," said the Ghost, retreating.

"Don't you want him killed?"

"You didn't say anything about killing him at first. I hardlv meant to bother you with anything so drastic as that."

"It's the onlv way," said the Angel, whose burning hands were now very close to the lizard. "Shall I kill it?"

"Well, that's a further question. I'm quite open to consider it, but it's a new point, isn't it? I mean, for the moment I was only thinking about silencing it because up here-well, it's so damned embarrassing."

"May I kill it?"

"Well, there's time to discuss that later."

"There is no time. May I kill it?"

"Please, I never meant to be such a nuisance. Please-really-don't bother. Look! It's gone to sleep of its own accord. I'm sure it'll be all right now. Thanks ever so much."

"May I kill it?"

"Honestly, I don't think there's the slightest necessity for that. I'm sure I shall be able to keep it in order now. I think the gradual process would be far better than killing it."

"The gradual process is of no use at all."

"Don't you think so? Well, I'll think over what you've said very carefully. I honestly will. In fact I'd let you kill it now, but as a matter of fact I'm not feeling frightfully well to-day. It would be silly to do it now. I'd need to be in good health for the operation. Some other day, perhaps."

"There is no other day. All days are present now."

"Get back! You're burning me. How can I tell you to kill it? You'd kill me if you did."

"It is not so."

"Why, you're hurting me now."

"I never said it wouldn't hurt you. I said it wouldn't kill you."

"Oh, I know. You think I'm a coward. But it isn't that. Really it isn't. I say! Let me run back by tonight's bus and get an opinion from my own doctor. I'll come again the first moment I can."

"This moment contains all moments."

"Why are you torturing me? You are jeering at me. How can I let you tear me to pieces? If you wanted to help me, why didn't you kill the damned thing without asking me-before I knew? It would be all over by now if you had."

"I cannot kill it against your will. It is impossible. Have I your permission?"

The Angel's hands were almost closed on the Lizard, but not quite. Then the Lizard began chattering to the Ghost so loud that even I could hear what it was saying.

"Be careful," it said. "He can do what he says. He can kill me. One fatal word from you and he will! Then you'll be without me for ever and ever. It's not natural. How could you live? You'd be only a sort of ghost, not a real man as you are now. He doesn't understand. He's only a cold, bloodless abstract thing. It may be natural for him, but it isn't for us. Yes, yes. I know there are no real pleasures now, only dreams. But aren't they better than nothing? And I'll be so good. I admit I've sometimes gone too far in the past, but I promise I won't do it again. I'll give you nothing but really nice dreams-all sweet and fresh and almost innocent. You might say, quite innocent____"

"Have I your permission?" said the Angel to the Ghost.

"I know it will kill me."

"It won't. But supposing it did?"

"You're right. It would be better to be dead than to live with this creature."

"Then I may?"

"Damn and blast you! Go on can't you? Get it over. Do what you like," bellowed the Ghost: but ended, whimpering, "God help me. God help me."

Next moment the Ghost gave a scream of agony such as I never heard on Earth. The Burning One closed his crimson grip on the reptile: twisted it, while it bit and writhed, and then flung it, broken backed, on the turf.

 

[JethroTullamore]

I don't think this thread wants to see a detailed breakdown of my sexual history.

Nah go ahead.