Magic The Gathering

[I'mma real anime gurl]

I hope the fucker that approved Black Aragon got laid off.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Good fuck Mike Mearls. He and Jeremy Crawford used to take turns being voice of god explaining the absolutely terribly written DnD 5e rules and they both only gave terrible smarmy answers that boiled down to "in case you didn't know your DM can do whatever man, but here's what I would do *let no one have any fun*".

One thing I appreciate about M:tG is that the rules are usually straightforward and simple 99% of the time unless you have intersecting layers like what the fuck happens when someone casts Blood Moon when someone has Ashaya out turning all their non-token creatures into forests.

 

[Safir]

There was a thread on WotC's 2023 edition of their traditional Christmas Layoffs in A&N but I think it was deleted.
In it, someone expressed admiration for the Weatherlight Saga.

The MTG wiki says this:

During its run, characters and plot events were featured prominently on the cards themselves, such that the basics of the story could be gleaned from them. Fan response to this was mixed at best and Wizards of the Coast largely abandoned this approach for many years, though the addition of Story Spotlight cards starting with Kaladesh has been seen as a return to this type of storytelling.

I was a kid when it came out and I loved it. Upon reread a decade and something later, I realized J. Robert King couldn't write worth shit, but there were still parts that I loved (Nemesis, and especially Vuel's death, and the epic events of Planeshift, and the magic/philosophy behind the colors in Prophecy and Invasion). Most importantly the setting is awesome: magitech industry, nanomachines, cyborg demons, world-destroying chalices, the Null Moon (yes, seriously), mass-murdering nigger vampires, the good guys doing 9/11 in June of 2001.

And yet, on the internets, I've only seen "it was shit", but from people whose opinions are suspect at best.
And WotC dragged out Dominaria's corpse to get raped no less than three times (maybe more). "Mixed at best" my ass.

So, Kiwis who were alive at the time, what was the fan response? What didn't people like?

 

[Abella]

The best evidence is the fact that Goyf has been completely powercrept out of Modern. It feels like every other set has cards that impact legacy and vintage, and they usually aren't instants and sorceries

Goyf was powercrept out of the game in the same manner a kid breaks their toys so they don’t have to share them. They’re doing that with a lot of cards that were staples back then, but are given a healthy number of reprints to become more accessible. They’ve also powercrept swords to plowshares and counterspell out of legacy. I have a feeling they’ll even do it to cards like force of will as well.

Jeeze WotC, what in the absolute fuck is this artwork:

Spoiler: SHE'S FAT

View attachment 5561843

Now I can't wait to see the inevitable My 600 Pound Life Secret Lair, if art like this is a thing.

And here's the original card art, as comparison:

View attachment 5561862

Hasbro will also be laying off 1100 employees. How many of those are from WotC, is to be seen.

They continue to make the art uglier and uglier, primarily focusing on shoehorning blacks, trannies, ugly people and fats.

 

[Flexo]

So, Kiwis who were alive at the time, what was the fan response? What didn't people like?

I mean it was right around then when the internet was kind of kicking off so there's going to be various replies as not a lot of us were able to log on and gauge a worldwide reaction. I was a filthy casual back then mostly borrowing decks to play but found the idea of the weatherlight intriguing and almost joined the game just to follow it. Among the hardcore players I did know I don't think many were even much aware there was a story. Does that count as mixed? Liking it vs apathy?

Personally I think the current-day fans are trying to backcast the story as problematic since it has a strong, black woman (of color) commanding a ship who gets sidelined in order for the white male hero to try and save the day (at cost of his own life).

If they were to make a MTG movie or TV show, I'd rather see old school weatherlight saga than some of the new planeswalker stuff. It was certainly better done than the Jacetice League (and I really liked the Gatewatch and wanted it to succeed as a story).

 

[Retink Retunk]

If they were to make a MTG movie or TV show, I'd rather see old school weatherlight saga than some of the new planeswalker stuff. It was certainly better done than the Jacetice League (and I really liked the Gatewatch and wanted it to succeed as a story).

While I agree, they'd probably fuck it up beyond recognition though, so with the knowledge that they'll fuck it up, I'd rather they fuck up the modern goy slop. I don't need Gerard as a fat black woman fighting Donald "Volrath" Trump to save Palestine.

 

[Flexo]

While I agree, they'd probably fuck it up beyond recognition though, so with the knowledge that they'll fuck it up, I'd rather they fuck up the modern goy slop. I don't need Gerard as a fat black woman fighting Donald "Volrath" Trump to save Palestine.

Let me qualify my statement with the big * I forgot to put on there:

*Assuming any adaption was made with the greatest fidelity and the highest quality skill in production, THEN [statement]. IF, however, things were to be made with the current standards and awfulness of modern storytelling production, then [etc etc].

Screw it - have them adapt Test of Metal.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

While I agree, they'd probably fuck it up beyond recognition though, so with the knowledge that they'll fuck it up, I'd rather they fuck up the modern goy slop. I don't need Gerard as a fat black woman fighting Donald "Volrath" Trump to save Palestine.

I honestly think it wouldn't be any worse than the current storylines.

It has a non-zero chance of being better to be honest, War of the Spark and All Will be One as stories were hideously bad.

 

[AnotherPleb]

I honestly think it wouldn't be any worse than the current storylines.

It has a non-zero chance of being better to be honest, War of the Spark and All Will be One as stories were hideously bad.

I'm still pissed that they tanked Dack Fayden and Gideon - and remember, Liliana had no consequences for that.

 

[Logistical Nightmare]

I'm still pissed that they tanked Dack Fayden and Gideon - and remember, Liliana had no consequences for that.

I read the book and I’m still positive I remember reading Dack not dying. The writing was so bad I can’t keep the plot points straight, and I refuse to go figure out where it is on my shelf to confirm if the book or my memory is right. Not to activate a monkeys paw, but if we ever get a competent writer, they could introduce the concept of alternate universes to bring back characters that other shit writers killed off. But knowing WOTC that could be horrible.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I read the book and I’m still positive I remember reading Dack not dying. The writing was so bad I can’t keep the plot points straight, and I refuse to go figure out where it is on my shelf to confirm if the book or my memory is right. Not to activate a monkeys paw, but if we ever get a competent writer, they could introduce the concept of alternate universes to bring back characters that other shit writers killed off. But knowing WOTC that could be horrible.

Wasn't in the book, was in a short story on the website.

 

[PonderosaPete]

I'm working backwards and recalling this from memory.

> Removing planeswalking and allowing anyone to travel between planes again. Yet despite removing most planeswalkers, we kept a few in case we need to back peddle.
> Having Atraxa be defeated by the people of New Capanera by dropping a building on her.
> Kaya soloing a corrupted Heliod
> Killing most the gods on Theros
> Wrenn conveniently being able to fuse with the big bad's ultra weapon
> Elspeth( everything, poor man's Serra)
> All the Preators pretty much defeating themselves instead of actually fighting
> Phryrexian planeswalkers doing nothing
> Tibalt and lukka's completion
> New phyrexia, which is the size of a large island, invading every plane at once, while old phyrexia wouldn't even attempt Dominaria without centuries of spy craft and planning. Considering Dominaria is twice the size of earth.
> Elsh Norn's entire plan and the sheer number of Mcguffins that are needed to even piece it together
> Saheeli being the smartest planeswalker ever
> Karn being the dumbest planeswalkers ever
> Kaya being the strongest planeswalkers ever
> Personal dif, but kamigama: Neon Dynasty came off as, unironically, the most racist set in the game. What do we do with this slightly original yet Japanese themed set? Make it a generic anime set with uninspired references.
> Reality chip doing whatever it wants
> Tranny vikings
> Tibalt moving up from mechanically, the weakest planeswalker to becoming Christ killing god slayer in Kalhiem
> Out of everything that exists in the multiverse, Maro confirming that homophobia does not exist in the multiverse.
> Gideon's death
> 3 named planeswalkers dying in [ War of the Spark], not including Nicol Bolas or Ugin who were sealed away.
> No major spotlights for fights that should be important. Izzet + Ral fighting a zombie god of knowledge probably deserves more then 1 card. Same for all of Bolas's generals.
> Honestly war of the Spark could have been a 3 set block in itself, instead of 2 return to ravs plus WAR. With the first set being the invasion, the second being the rally to fight back, and the third being the dramatic conclusion.
> Vraska's character and having no consistency to speak of.
> Domri dying the moment the invasion begins ( for the lulz)
> Jace's most notable arc is losing his memories (again), regain them and fulfilling his roll as the multiverse's most powerful mind mage. Only to immediately lose a 5v1 against Liliana, do nothing for the rest of the plot, until the strike team invades New Phyrexia. Written as unhinged and infected yet still comes across as the most reasonable member of the team.
> Chandra getting mogged at every turn, but shows up against elder dragon, gods, and machine horrors, winning by burning even hotter. This works literally every time in every final battle.
> Introducing the edgelord planeswalker Sorin only to have him castrated as every turn.
> Nahiri's personality consisting of being bipolar
> Defeating two eldrazi titans using channel fireball on a plane that had it's mana decimated for months. Giving a shaman access to a dying plane's world soul is apparently enough to kill these monsters. While also allowing zendikar to bounce back from Continental destruction in a month or two with no long lasting effects to the plane itself.

Honestly this is probably only a handful of actual problems with the MTG setting, which is a shame. MTG does have fantastic lore, settings, and ideas. All of them executed terribly for around ten years now. I understand they want the marvel money, but the difference between that terrible narrative and this one is Marvel has bombastic animation and sound to prop it up.

They have a plane[ Theros] where people don't die, but move to a lower level of the plane. But if you try to escape the underworld you run the risk of sperating your soul and body. With one becoming a gold masked zombie that thrists for the death of the living, while the soul becomes an element spirit of the land. Kalhiem has a similar thing on the go, sure. Amonkhet's world activity and maliciously resurrects the dead in response to Nicol Bolas ravaging the plane and killing millions of people at once.


Having a necromancer comment on how these different planes affect them would be infinitely more interesting then the praetors betray each other at the eleventh hour. I miss the old planeswalker guides. Even then they didn't have enough information to pour over. They were much better supplementary material then what we get now.


Tl;dr I concur, story is shit.

 

[UncleTusky]

So, Kiwis who were alive at the time, what was the fan response? What didn't people like?

Hard to gauge what the fandom thought for the reasons Flexo mentioned but personally I liked it - the characters and plot were well-developed enough to keep me engaged even though I was mostly there to play, not the lore.

To me the biggest difference between Weatherlight and Mirrodin-present (I'm intentionally omitting Odyssey/Onslaught here) is that keeping the same cast of characters and overarching plot between blocks meant the feel/tone was more consistent as well even when they went to one-off planes like Mercadia. It certainly helped that relying on the same cast of characters gave WotC a strong incentive not to kill any of them off since they couldn't just reboot the plot when the next block started.

Personally I think the current-day fans are trying to backcast the story as problematic since it has a strong, black woman (of color) commanding a ship who gets sidelined in order for the white male hero to try and save the day (at cost of his own life).

I think WotC might be helping to push the narrative too: This thread has talked a lot about how game quality has declined over the last ~ten years while WotC pretends it's just part of the game's normal progression, but that also applies to plot/lore: Current-year Magic plots are the kind of thing you'd read in a really bad comic book or fantasy novel. If WotC admitted that Weatherlight Saga was a high point for plot/lore that raises awkward questions, but if WotC pretends Weatherlight Saga was a failure it gives them an excuse to keep tinkering with (read: making even worse) their approach to plots.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

So, Kiwis who were alive at the time, what was the fan response? What didn't people like?

I'm an odd one in that I didn't read the books religiously but stumbled across some of them without reading the full arc. So I read Nemesis and Apocalypse without any of the others.
While I did not understand a lot of the plot as a result it was simply enough written with interesting stakes and sufficiently unique settings that I was able to enjoy them. It was blatantly not art but it was good enough and enjoyable. I'd call them worth reading though, they made the conflict on the cards a lot more personal.

> Out of everything that exists in the multiverse, Maro confirming that homophobia does not exist in the multiverse.

Wait...seriously? With a multiverse that sees things like organic life as irrelevant homophobia is somehow a step too far?

 

[Grimoire Canthari]

Played several commander games with an older relation (they were elated I finally decided to join) and got to fine tune my Black/White infect deck a bit using some stuff from their massive card pile. I nabbed a Suture Spirit because the art was baller. I don't think she'd be of much use in my current deck since I want my fags to die/I win off of proliferating but look at her.

Might put her in a different one for that regeneration, even if she's probably powercrept by some other critter or spell.

 

[Rumpled Foreskin]

@Safir as someone who still has 8 or 9 of these books on their shelves, unfortunately I can shed insight. Almost everyone playing at the time didn’t care for the story in any capacity. The few that did thought it was mildly entertaining, and had some great moments. Simple as, as they say.

 

[Noebel]

homophobia is somehow a step too far?

Logically, gays would be one of the less important problems, same as racism. Most worlds have multiple sentient species, with whom your country/city/tribe/whatever had conflicts before, and, likely, having one right now. A heaven for true and earnest xenophobe.

 

[PonderosaPete]

Wait...seriously? With a multiverse that sees things like organic life as irrelevant homophobia is somehow a step too far?

So I'll admit upfront I was wrong and/or misremembered. I went to go find the tweet and it wasn't Maro who made the quote. It was Doug Beyer, who was the principal game designer on the magic worldbuilding team during WAR. I also found out he still works at wizards as senior staff. Apologies.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Apologies.View attachment 5576633

Nothing to apologise for, it's still utter bullshit to claim that in the entire multiverse homophobia doesn't exist.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

So, Kiwis who were alive at the time, what was the fan response? What didn't people like?

I gathered them up in the years after Graduation because before my life fell apart I was going to attempt to be a dedicated tournament grinder because I loved the game and well, if I play a game I follow the lore.

I have them still in a box and really haven't read them in forever but..The actual Weatherlight Anthology was terribly uneven, but I would attribute that to being an anthology so the plot had some flow issues.


When you get to the Mercadian Masques Block the books become a bit more coherent and passable (outside of Prophecy which is just filler junk) but they never really rise above "Mediocre and passable"

The Invasion Block is a fine Climax to a building story.
Odyssey..is a cool bottle episode
Onslaught is fucking awful except the moment that Kamahl turned the Mirari's power in on itself by showing what happens when you take the Colors to extremes.
Mirrodin..was 2/3 of a good plot that exploded in the last book and then got turned into absolute insane nonesense in Scars.