Communism debate nuance edition

[draggs]

Capitalism is obviously better for muh social conservatism

The record of communism is that a Mao can unleash true and honest pogroms against socially conservative symbols and the people seen to perpetuate them. Pogroms which quickly devolve into general anarchy

Hitler saved social conservatism in Russia by forcing Stalin to make peace with the Orthodox church by invading. Stalin needed to draw on the historical symbols of the motherland to rally support for the war. The New Soviet Man was supposed to be free of all pre-revolution ideas, a blank slate to be filled in by the State as the State saw fit. Same shit with Mao in the Cultural Revolution

Mao saved social conservatism in China by substituting both pre- and post-1949 ideas with anarchy vaguely characterized as "continuous revolution." Deng saw you can't do shit when large portions of the country totally lose social cohesion to anarchy

In capitalist societies social conservatism has obviously taken many, many Ls since WW2, but it hasn't been pogromed and its institutions repressed into nothingness by the State. Socially conservative individuals and organizations still exist in large numbers in capitalist societies. In communist countries only the expediency of the State preserves any vestige of social conservatism

 

[Wood]

Communism itself has nothing to do with "social conservatism". What happened is that Stalin purged all the jews.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Stalinism failed miserably so even more so after WW 2, he purged dissidents left and right to the point he managed to fail steamroll Finland
Moreover Stalin's failed attempt to stamp out religion
Failing that he installed NKVD puppets to control orthodoxy
Ordered Trofim Lysenko to fix widespread famines only cause more deaths from starvation
Failing to admit fault Stalin purged Lysenko instead of his policies

None of this has anything to do with what I wrote. Can you actual counter my point about how Stalin had nothing to do with the Frankfurt School and Michel Foucault? Because this is just you going on about how Stalin did bad things, none of which I contest.

Only union was state and started projects

Which is literally what I said, but you have little reading comprehension.

As far economy superpowers go USSR was cooking the books since consumer market decline in 60s combined with high inflation Ruble to Dollar exchange rate which was set by soviet state
Since you citates claims about productivity and USSR and later founded CCP relied Soviet needed food aid from United States not once But twice and the fact US, UK and rest of the western world bought propaganda hook line and sinker.

Meanwhile back in reality, the Soviet economy was robust and developing, doubling in GDP between 1913 and 1950 despite ten years of war and taking the brunt of World War II casualties and damage (besides maybe China and Germany itself). It tripled again in the 1950-1973 period, which is similar to the US's performance in that time.

That the Soviets needed to import food is no sign of a poor economy given their great success in World War II, success in putting a man in space, propping up communism around the globe, and building the largest nuclear arsenal. It also ignores that in most years the USSR exported food and curiously enough, the imposition of capitalism in the 1990s destroyed Russian agriculture.

I was talking about Cuba and Cuba alone and travel risks there Mentioned few travel advisory boards, mentioning high crime and Human trafficking and sex tourism.
I specifically mentioned not to travel alone in Cuba especially outside tourist zones, that was my point.Risk is even higher if you're critical of communist regime

This is about Cuba not United States their issues can't handwave Cuban ones, it's a diversion tactic explained below

You failed to prove anything about how Cuba's crime issue has anything to do with communism. I proved that communism has made Cuba safer since Cuba executed an average of one person per day for decades, then abolished the death penalty in favor of locking them in their prison camp system. The crime rate in the United States or Central America is absolutely relevant to the crime rate in Cuba, since it offers a point of comparison between communism and capitalism. Or perhaps more relevant, let's check Puerto Rico since the demographics are similar to Cuba. Oh okay, 17.4/100K, about 3 times that of Cuba. Or Cuba itself before communism. Oh yeah, when Cuba was ruled by a corrupt dictator who let the Mafia rule the streets of Havana. Sounds like a peaceful place lol.

BTW practically every Latin American country has some sort of travel warning, so Cuba isn't unique in that regard. You are not debating in good faith at all and are projecting like crazy, so please stop trying to pretend you are.

As for the so-called "holodomor," Stalin's so-called "genocide," whether a famine gets remembered or noticed at all is usually determined by its political significance. There were many famines and generally bad living conditions in tsarist Russia, but that is not politically useful for the ruling class so the corporate media and pop-history is not interested. The manmade famine in Afganistan doesn't get much attention, even though it's happening right now, simply because the USA is doing it.

Yeah, the Holodomor is definitely worthy of being called the Holohoax since it was the CIA's Ukrainian (former Nazi collaborators) allies spinning an actual famine caused by Stalinist mismanagement into some glorious campaign to destroy the Ukrainian nation. Neverminding the fact that most of the people who ran the USSR post-Stalin were Ukrainian, that Stalin promoted hundreds of Ukrainians to high ranks within the military and party, that Stalin and the USSR in general were pro-Ukrainian to the point that the modern Ukrainian nation owes its existence to them (as prior to that "Ukraine" was just a fringe concept expoused by Galician nationalists) or that millions of Ukrainians served against Nazism on the Eastern Front. Sure enough, the Soviet archives confirm this--there was a famine, but it affected Russians just as much, and had no element of "ethnic targeting" that wasn't applied to Stalinist campaigns against all of his enemies.

The idea for this topic was "Is social conservatism done better/more efficiently in communism or capitalism"
Just making it into a shitflinging contest and revisionist lunacy about Stalin and Mao is kinda pointless and sad.
Always remember that you do NOT have to defend any ideology wholesale. You can always look at what it does well and see how you can learn from that. There is no automatic link between "we don't like fags here" to "we should nationalize your farm and expropriate your land".

Not on Kiwifarms. If I say even a single thing about communism is good, then clearly I am 100% communist and down with Lysenkoism and Mao killing sparrows. Ironically this is the same logic Stalin and Mao themselves used where saying a single thing bad about Lysenkoism or killing sparrows meant you were a counter-revolutionary capitalist who deserved the gulag.

 

[Mothra1988]

In another thread, pedo-guy was praising Confucius as the founder of morality and modern thought or something. Definitely guzzled the kool-aid like so much Chinese sperm. lol

 

[BirdUp]

That the Soviets needed to import food is no sign of a poor economy

i have nothing else to add

 

[IKOL]

In another thread, pedo-guy was praising Confucius as the founder of morality and modern thought or something. Definitely guzzled the kool-aid like so much Chinese sperm. lol

Coming from you, a kike, who is cheerleading for milking sperm from dead zion juden.

Regarding the subject matter: I have born after USSR ceased to exist (yes most of the people here are lacking in reality checks, USSR is no more. for 30+ years, no less). IS communism good or bad is very subjective matter everyone makes points up for themselves.
I haven't witnessed it. Shall I be glad or not I do not know and not eager to find that out, because I live by the present, not the past history that was twisted and fucked on countless occasions.

Sneed.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

In another thread, pedo-guy was praising Confucius as the founder of morality and modern thought or something. Definitely guzzled the kool-aid like so much Chinese sperm. lol

So "don't let the government interfere with merchants and lower taxes to alleviate the burden on the people" i.e. Confucian economics 101 is now communism?

i have nothing else to add

It's a mix of it not being their economic model AND various central planning failures. But you'll note there were no famines after the late 40s in the USSR. A country can be rich without producing their own food because that's how trade works. Sell higher value products, buy lower value products like food. If somehow this was bad for the USSR, why did their GDP triple in the 1950-1973 period (matching US growth) and they assembled impressive heavy industry? The biggest flaw with the USSR was that it ended up being just a shittier version of capitalism in the end, and had to be since Stalinism was overall a failure. But ironically that also brought the biggest success since modern Russia has a far weaker fag lobby than Western countries (and the USSR had basically none).

 

[BirdUp]

But you'll note there were no famines after the late 40s in the USSR.

no reported famines

If somehow this was bad for the USSR, why did their GDP triple in the 1950-1973 period (matching US growth) and they assembled impressive heavy industry?

the soviets fudged their statistics and any economic data they had was useless without prices or supplies reflecting what people wanted

The biggest flaw with the USSR was that it ended up being just a shittier version of capitalism in the end

because socialists quickly discover that deciding what needs higher supply is impossible without millions of sellers offering various things and seeing what billions of people buy the most, and reverse-engineer it incrementally

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

The instances were ommunism was "social conservative" have less to do with communism as a ideology and more due to circumtances (Implementing discipline and pretty much all communist countries being rural countries formerly ruled by landowner oligarchies) Just like how fascism and national socialism were not actually reactionary.

 

[Mothra1988]

Coming from you, a kike, who is cheerleading for milking sperm from dead zion juden.

Do you faggots really think I give a shit you are linking to my posts where I was making fun of you for getting so assblasted? LOL. What are you trying to do, make me laugh at you harder?

IS communism good or bad is very subjective matter everyone makes points up for themselves.

If you can't tell if communism is bad, you are a complete doofus who should have been aborted honestly. Don't know what school system you came out of, but it was obviously an embarrassment. The fact some of you guys would willingly sign up for breadlines is hilarious.

 

[IKOL]

Do you faggots really think I give a shit you are linking to my posts where I was making fun of you for getting so assblasted? LOL

Cope.

If you can't tell if communism is bad, you are a complete doofus who should have been aborted honestly.

And that's why nobody likes the kikes. To the gas chamber you go.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Do you faggots really think I give a shit you are linking to my posts where I was making fun of you for getting so assblasted? LOL. What are you trying to do, make me laugh at you harder?

M'lady if you wanna continue making 40 decapitations content, please do, don't just tease.
You know we're always welcoming

 

[Glowie]

None of this has anything to do with what I wrote. Can you actual counter my point about how Stalin had nothing to do with the Frankfurt School and Michel Foucault? Because this is just you going on about how Stalin did bad things, none of which I contest.

Frankfurt school was foundation for Marxist thought which evolved to many flavours of socialism, in practice Frankfurt school and Marx' flawed theories turned into little more than a footnote in socialist and economic models like Stalinism and Maoist thought

Which is literally what I said, but you have little reading comprehension.

So we are in agreement that centralised communist do not in fact have interests in workers in mind, but interests of the state.

You failed to prove anything about how Cuba's crime issue has anything to do with communism. I proved that communism has made Cuba safer since Cuba executed an average of one person per day for decades, then abolished the death penalty in favor of locking them in their prison camp system. The crime rate in the United States or Central America is absolutely relevant to the crime rate in Cuba, since it offers a point of comparison between communism and capitalism. Or perhaps more relevant, let's check Puerto Rico since the demographics are similar to Cuba. Oh okay, 17.4/100K, about 3 times that of Cuba. Or Cuba itself before communism. Oh yeah, when Cuba was ruled by a corrupt dictator who let the Mafia rule the streets of Havana. Sounds like a peaceful place lol.

Repeating same statistics is disingenuous without reading mine in turn 2022 protests proved inequity, how communist states outright lie and downplay crime furthermore Low violent crime does not dismiss the fact that Cuba is still ruled by Castro lineage elites

Yeah, the Holodomor is definitely worthy of being called the Holohoax since it was the CIA's Ukrainian (former Nazi collaborators) allies

Assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I will dissmiss your assertion with evidence

Regarding the subject matter: I have born after USSR ceased to exist (yes most of the people here are lacking in reality checks, USSR is no more. for 30+ years, no less). IS communism good or bad is very subjective matter everyone makes points up for themselves.

Permanently ruining moral fabric of your country and people still live in commie blocks, below average living standards, snitch culture and worship of Stalin. Inequality, rampant poverty and inequity.

For example a gopnik like you do not have a chance to reach lifestyle of high brow Moscowite, resource draining wars for annexation lack free education, corruption and literal state TV are legacy of communism creating low trust societies left and right.

It's a mix of it not being their economic model AND various central planning failures. But you'll note there were no famines after the late 40s in the USSR. A country can be rich without producing their own food because that's how trade works. Sell higher value products, buy lower value products like food. If somehow this was bad for the USSR, why did their GDP triple in the 1950-1973 period (matching US growth) and they assembled impressive heavy industry? The biggest flaw with the USSR was that it ended up being just a shittier version of capitalism in the end, and had to be since Stalinism was overall a failure.

You keep pulling figures without citations and asserting that they're true. If you were capable opening and read citations I linked in every post, supposed GDP growth, which you claim without evidence I might add, unlike my claims which are from soviet and analysis by CIA, since you tend to attempt sources you like I added secondary source highlight inflation and high cost of living in USSR and paper reporting Income in 1977 USSR. Kruschev was proven wrong alongside soviet GDP myth In reality at least of 40% soviet union lived in poverty in 60s
See attached PDFs

 

[IKOL]

Permanently ruining moral fabric of your country and people still live in commie blocks, below average living standards, snitch culture and worship of Stalin. Inequality, rampant poverty and inequity.

For example a gopnik like you do not have a chance to reach lifestyle of high brow Moscowite, resource draining wars for annexation lack free education, corruption and literal state TV are legacy of communism creating low trust societies left and right.

And again this glownigger derail into spitting on the present Russia without having inside knowledge about it. INSIDE OF HIS OWN THREAD.

1. Permanently ruininn moral fabric of my country - that's quite reach coming from a resident of the quasi-states union known for being the cesspit of all depravity that have infested somewhat the half of this retarded planet.
Yes many might to live in suffering, some in poverty even, yet people still have dreams and hopes for the better tomorrow, making their way to fullfilment of them.
2. Living in commie blocks - and what do you propose? Glass them and build new houses instead of what people have? You do realise it's not a thing of one week, right? The complexity of building even one house (when you have to consider not only base planning and building the walls but also providing basic living needs and standards along with these walls, such as doors, windows, electricity, water supply, gas supply, etc.)
Sure commie blocks are countless and in most cases as old or even older than a majority of people visiting this forum. And yet, they are still apartments, it's still a housing, a roof for people to live under. That's the main purpose of every house and commie blocks fulfill this purpose on par (if not better at certain cases) with modern apartments.
3. Living standards are depend on person's perspective of what he's fine with. If one person prefer to live in dirt and shit like a pig or average zoomer, the other might to want to have a fucking palace with maidens, droids that do all the clean-up, cooking and other shit. Average person in Russia doesn't seek much - they just live thier lives enjoying what they have and saving for something to add to what is there in the life people live.
4. do tell me about the snitch culture when amerimutt govt endorse its own citizent to snitch on Trump supporters or those who have been caught on cameras to be somewhere around\inside of govermental buildings such as white house, capitols etc.
5. the only ones who worship Stalin are old people, the rest of population are either indiffirent or might to say "yeah he was ruling USSR he was there when we beat up nazis so he was alright". That's the most what you'll hear from common citizen.
6. Calling me gopnik is equal to you out yourself as pedophile tranny sitting on govt breadcrumbs, bitch. I have suspected you might be one and guess I wasn't that far from the truth.
7. I don't aim to live a life of a bugman, Moscow is just as same as most of eurocuck\amerimutt big cities in terms of its population. Entitled retards who do not know the actual cost of living their life.
8. We have no problem with free education, dunno where the fuck you've got this bullshit from.
9. Corruption is not exclusive to Russia.
10. State TV is a thing that is not exclusive to Russia as well as corruption.
11. Do tell about low trust societies being a member of one that have literal identification crisis due to its senile rulers have no clear idea what they are doing for actual or what is going on around them, the society that have lgbtpnz+++ epidemy that have reached a critical mass but people are too amorphous to act in defense of what's right.

 

[Glowie]

And again this glownigger derail into spitting on the present Russia without having inside knowledge about it. INSIDE OF HIS OWN THREAD.

Sorry gopnik, I know more about effects of communism and it's permanent effect on Russia and it's culture, worship of Stalinism and Russia itself being victim of of, I study history, talk to readable Ukrainians that left and babushkas who lived in abject poverty. Three studies that I linked prove that USSR lied about their GDP, more than 40% of the population lived in poverty. Five year plan and forced collectivization failed leading to 1923 which US helped to resolve. Journalists like Gareth Jones in his book "We are starving 1933"
Depicts this famine and encapsulates my point that Soviet Russia killed millions, his Stalin's telegraphs for untill fall of Soviet Union, after the curtain fell ugly details about Communists tragedies, their plans eradicate religion, free thought and speech came to light. Rhssia unfortunately didn't recover from communist central control. Despite Soviet and Russia propaganda, commie blocks built for migrant workers, Soviet Union built everything by bulk leading to tofu dreg construction projects.
Post Soviet construction I have modern communist problem that echoes China
Namely water scarcity and water pollution

In fact CCP propped their GDP by
by building ghost cities en masse
And followed traditional communist mismanaged planning leading to
Record unemployment in youth, homelessness and debt traps.

Failures of communism can be seen in post Soviet states turned into totalitarian states while countries like Poland is regional powerhouse and Vietnam which adopted free market is thriving.

I'm responding to your emotional outburst with sources why current and past Soviet countries exemplify failure of Communism and it's easily tracked lies and I'll continue to do so with sources in hand.

 

[IKOL]

I know more about effects of communism and it's permanent effect on Russia and it's culture, worship of Stalinism and Russia itself being victim of of, I study history, talk to readable Ukrainians that left and babushkas who lived in abject poverty.

>posts cia niggers backed fagrags
You know fuck all. Cobain yourself

 

[Duke Nukem]

Communisms = bad, m'kay? Don't do communism. Cause communism = bad, m'kay?

Weak.

Total Commie Death is the only way.

Seriously though, what you said about them importing cultural poison into rival nation-states strangely makes sense. There's nothing here for the average guy to live for, unless you like ten second TikToks and retarded struggle sessions.

Then again, all this talk about "In America we have freedom" is a fucking lie too.

 

[Mothra1988]

And that's why nobody likes the kikes. To the gas chamber you go.

Are you too stupid to realize how paradoxical the idea of accusing someone being against communism as just being a kike is? I swear they clone you idiots in a factory, and each copy becomes increasingly dumber and closer to complete self parody.

 

[White_N]

Political sperging brings in the most retarded people.
Sad, many such cases.

 

[Tablet County]

Inspired by @AgendaPoster to debate Marxism/Socialism/Communism in civil tone

The civility didn't even last two pages. Fucking politispergs I swear.